Topic: How to record a style from PSR SX600 into Cubase

[janamdo]

Try to figure out how to do this recording a style + melody 
First in Cubase if it works and later in a composer program

[overover]

Hi Jan,

it is much better to record your playing (Style + melody) directly on the SX600 (using MIDI Quick Recording). Save that MIDI file onto the connected USB stick. Then connect the USB stick to the computer and import the MIDI file (.mid) into your DAW (e.g. Cubase).

If you do it this way, you will have all the required MIDI data (including GM&XG Resets, global SysEx, Bank Select / Program Change, the Voice Set of the Voices used, other MIDI controllers and effects SysEx) in the MIDI file (and then automatically in the DAW). But if you were to record your performance in the DAW via MIDI, you would have to manually enter all of these data into the DAW afterwards. And this is next to impossible ...

When you play back the imported MIDI file in the DAW and have routed all used MIDI channels to MIDI Port 1 (RECEIVE) of the keyboard, it will sound exactly as you originally played it. (As mentioned before, it is best to use the Preset MIDI template "All Parts". Then all 16 Receive Channels are automatically routed to the corresponding SONG Part of the Keyboard.

In the DAW you can of course CHANGE ALL MIDI data according to your wishes.


P.S.
You should forget the Receive Port 2 in this context. The Keyboard Parts, Style Parts and Multi Pad Parts use internally the MIDI Port 2. But as soon as you RECORD via MIDI Recording, a MIDI song (MIDI file) is created, and MIDI files are always played back via Port 1 (so that the internal SONG Parts are controlled). This is the only way to make it sound exactly as you recorded it.


Best regards,
Chris

[janamdo]

Hi Chris
Thanks for your advice!

I read about this record setup and it was complicated, so i am glad i can forget it.
Try the setup also to do in Cubase, but it is in first place for the composer Synfire meant. 

Only the composer had a Midi rack what i can add (the midi rack) in the setup page of the composer.
In this rack must be made a connection to the keyboard for receiving midi.
I make a pic from the rack ...

Jan
 

[janamdo]

The rack is a external midi output and i assume that Digital keyboard-1 is the input driver for keyboard ?
- the soundcategory ( type of sound : bass piano, etc):  i don't know at forehand and the the 16 sounds are on fixed channels set
- method of selection : bankselection method :   
Program Only , MSB + LSB, MSB(CC0), LSB(CC32), PROGRAM(MSB) + PROGRAM and Plug-in Preset PROGRAM

Set it on :  Program Only  and add program numberrs to channel 1 to 16

Note: the extenal global instrument rack is using here a device setup file : external Global instruments in a menu
I could make also a multi-timbral device setup  what has a dynamic sound assigning.
Mostly used for a GM rack when midi files are used in the composer and you don't know at forehand what instruments are in the GM midi are assigned 
This looks on the same situation for this external global rack, but there it are only 127 sounds for General Midi(GM)
So a multiitimbral device setup for this  extrernal global instrument is not reasonble ( how it is done in Cubase?)



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[overover]

Hi Jan,

I can unfortunately not help you with this "Composer" program. I do not work with it and I will probably not deal with it in the near future.

I use the following programs for MIDI file editing: Midiland "Midifile Optimizer XI", an old Emagic Logic PC version as a DAW, MixMaster, PSRUTI and various other free MIDI editing tools.

If your "Composer" program can load and play MIDI files, simply set the MIDI output device, as already mentioned, to the MIDI Port 1 of the installed USB driver (in principle exactly the same as in connection with a DAW).

To transmit notes played on the keyboard via MIDI (in order to record them in the DAW), you have to activate at least one Keyboard Part when using the MIDI template "All Parts". ("Right 1" is transmitted on Port 1 / Channel 1).

The rack is a external midi output and i assume that Digital keyboard-1 is the input driver for keyboard ?

You have (viewed from the keyboard) two USB MIDI Receive Ports (Port 1 & Port 2), but only one USB MIDI Transmit Port (Port 1). (The Transmit Port 2 cannot used via USB-MIDI.)

"Digital Keyboard-2" in your picture is the currently set MIDI Output device of this program. This is not correct. As stated before, please use Port 1 here (in this case named "Digital Keyboard-1". So do NOT use Port 2.


Best regards,
Chris

[janamdo]

Hi Chris,

The template: "All Parts"  is set on keyboard for port 1  for a song and digital keyboard 1 is on external midi output rack set.
I loaded a midi from a style recorded into the composer, but as static  ( de midi composer musical ai has not changed during import th e midi)

In this static import mode it seems that it also must assign a sound ?

No.. in static mode import the tracks are considered as drumtrack (ch10), so i must do a figure recognition from the static midi in order to assign the right sounds i think 
Can do right away a standard import in Synfire with figure recognision ( the midi is translated in a other format : figures ) 

[janamdo]

Hi Chris,

If your "Composer" program can load and play MIDI files, simply set the MIDI output device, as already mentioned, to the MIDI Port 1 of the installed USB driver (in principle exactly the same as in connection with a DAW).

I did that for the external midi out rack ..on port 1 ( digital Keyboard-1, but it seem to not enough

best regards
Jan

[overover]

As mentioned before, I can't help you much here, Jan.

Usually a computer program first plays an imported/loaded MIDI file "as is", i.e. it sends the control commands contained in the MIDI file to the sound module used (in your case the SX600). If this is not possible with your program (i.e. if you always have to manually assign sounds (Voices), it may not be suitable for your intended purpose.

You could look for the Voice addresses (Bank Select MSB / Bank Select LSB / PRG) from the Voice List (in the SX600 Data List), or you can display the Voice addresses directly for each Voice in the Voice Selection display (touch "Menu" in the Voice Selection display for this). But then the original Voice Set and the Effect settings (System effects & Insert effects) are NOT used.

I don't know if the latter is important to you. When it comes to "composing" songs, the actual Sound of each MIDI channel is not that important. But when it comes to using the high-quality Voices of the SX600 including ALL Voice/Effects settings, you need a computer program that supports the original commands that are already in a MIDI file and initially sends them back to the keyboard unchanged.


Best regards,
Chris

[janamdo]

Hi Chris,

Thanks

Within minute it was working in Cubase and the midi style was playing

I don't know if the latter is important to you. When it comes to "composing" songs, the actual Sound of each MIDI channel is not that important. But when it comes to using the high-quality Voices of the SX600 including ALL Voice/Effects settings, you need a computer program that supports the original commands that are already in a MIDI file and initially sends them back to the keyboard unchanged.

That's the whole purpose why i do want to connect the high-quality Voices of the SX600 to the composer : the sound quality!
Don't know if the high-quality sounds are only used as melody sounds and not as acmp sounds ?

If the acmp sounds are only GM sounds ?

I do want to use the soundmodule of the sx600 to his fullest in the composer and later on from the new to come keyboards sx700/900 

Jan

 

[janamdo]

Hi Chris,

I don't know if the latter is important to you. When it comes to "composing" songs, the actual Sound of each MIDI channel is not that important. But when it comes to using the high-quality Voices of the SX600 including ALL Voice/Effects settings, you need a computer program that supports the original commands that are already in a MIDI file and initially sends them back to the keyboard unchanged.

What program can do that  do you think: Cubase maybe ?
How should Synfire composer developer this do ... that all sounds for sx600 are to use. 
Synfire its using GM files by default for collecting a library of phrases from the GM midi's

In the past Synfire could import .sty styles format now replaced by .psr file format what Synfire cannot import at the moment.
Should be fantastic when i can use all sounds from  SX600 for the library sounds for phrases
Jan

[overover]

... In the past Synfire could import .sty styles format now replaced by .psr file format what Synfire cannot import at the moment
Jan

There are only two different Yamaha Style File Formats: SFF (= SFF1) and "SFF GE" (= SFF2). The extension of a style file is only used to differentiate between the different style TYPES (e.g. .psr = "Pro Style", .sst = Session Style, .fps = Free Play Style).

You can simply change a Style extension from e.g. .prs to .sty on the computer. But the question is if SFF2 Styles (introduced with Tyros3 and PSR-S910) are supported by your program (or only SFF1). (You should be able to find this information in the manual of that program.)


Best regards,
Chris

[janamdo]

(You should be able to find this information in the manual of that program.)


Best regards,
Chris

Hi Chris

Don't think that this information is to find in the manual..at the moment.
There are plans for a online system for the manual by the developer. 
The manual is not up to date : a known problem when a small company( one -person ?) developed this complicated software.

Although i will look into the manual for this information, but i don't aspect much of it.

How do i get the attention of the developer that he can make work of  the full capacity of the psr sx600 soundmodule to use in Synfire ?


Best regards

Jan

[janamdo]

Hi Chris

If the composer has support for SSF2 then all sounds are available for the sx600 in the composer?

Jan
 

[overover]

Hi Chris

If the composer has support for SFF2 then all sounds are avaiable for the sx600 in the composer?

Jan

When SFF2 Styles are "supported" by a computer program, this only means that the program can LOAD the Styles and then do something with them, e.g.  playing them (similar to the keyboard) or editing the Styles in any way.

If you load styles directly into your PC program, they should theoretically sound the same as they do directly on the keyboard. In practice, however, this can be completely different. It is not easy to precisely reprogram the functions of a hardware automatic accompaniment in a PC program.

You have to find out for yourself how to switch to other sounds (voices) in YOUR program. So-called "patch lists" may be included, but probably NOT for the SX600. Maybe you can make a patch list yourself. Presumably only the Voices with MSB / LSB / PRG would then be called up. However, this is by no means to be compared with revoicing Style Channels in the Mixer of the keyboard.

I suspect that only a few users can help you with these details of this special program here in the forum (if at all). Unfortunately, as already mentioned, I cannot (and will not) deal with this program in detail at the moment.


Best regards,
Chris

[janamdo]

You have to find out for yourself how to switch to other sounds (voices) in YOUR program. So-called "patch lists" may be included, but probably NOT for the SX600. Maybe you can make a patch list yourself. Presumably only the Voices with MSB / LSB / PRG would then be called up. However, this is by no means to be compared with revoicing Style Channels in the Mixer of the keyboard.

I suspect that only a few users can help you with these details of this special program here in the forum (if at all). Unfortunately, as already mentioned, I cannot (and will not) deal with this program in detail at the moment.


Best regards,
Chris

Hi Chris,
Thanks for your help

There is a datalist for sx600  : voice  + Mega voice 
Example : Concertgrand (voice) : voicenumber- 0/115/1  (msb#/lsb#/pc#= patchnumber ?) 
There are also voicetypes mentioned ( live!,regular,cool!,S art!, sweet!,...) 

Also the megavoices are listed.

Seems that all voices are listed with msb/lsb and patchnumber  and if i look now a the Midi output rack in the composer ? 
The composer has many device descriptions for hardware synth in a database
Many virtual instruments (software) support the automated extraction of their patch list, but the SX600 soundmodule is not a virtual instrument, but hardware instrument.

The composer supports : MIDI XML standard format : these definitions describe MIDI commands for bank changes and all sounds available on a sound generator, among other things
Midnam files..are available for many devices, but for SX600 never made by someone already.


Probably its possible to fill a midi output rack with some cool sounds from SX600 
Its not working yet the SX600 as a tone generator

Best regards
Jan

 

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[janamdo]

Its now possible for me to connect a midi soundrack from a composerprogram on computer with the SX600 keyboard soundmodule.
Add a sound(lsb/msb/programnumber) in the rack with output : port2 (keyboard 2 )and midi template: song in SX600.

I ccould now play a phrase on thec omposer with a  SX600 sound.


Cheers
Jan