Author Topic: My personal vent on SX700....  (Read 2373 times)

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Offline Gios

My personal vent on SX700....
« on: January 26, 2021, 11:19:20 AM »
Hello everybody
after 25 years i decided to buy an arranger keyboard and i got sx700. In the last 10 years I have dedicated myself to composing with PLUGIN software and I have only used midi keyboards as master keyboard. To date I have gained a good knowledge of DAW and PLUGIN. After two months of using SX700 I can say that as a STYLES section (but I have no competence in this regard) I find it quite sufficient for the price paid. Sounds nice enough with good samples, but for everything related to SOUND management and editing it is definitely disappointing and not at all of the current times. I suppose Yamaha has deliberately limited the possibility of editing on this keyboard, as it is possible that nowadays you cannot set an envelope on the CUTOFF or an LFO. Not to mention YEM, a software that looks like it was written 20 years ago. I hope that YAMAHA is aware of the excessive editing limitations (I don't know for the other keyboards) that it has imposed on the SX700, and that in the near future it will release a new release of the management firmware that can fill all these gaps. There is no point in having a TOUCH LCD on an outdated and old system. My historic FENDER CHOMA POLARIS first SINTH with VELOCITY management already had a more complete SOUND editing 25 years ago.
 

Offline Toril S

Re: My personal vent on SX700....
« Reply #1 on: January 26, 2021, 11:50:17 AM »
These keyboards are mostly made for people who just want to sit down and play😀 I am more than happy with that.
Toril S

Genos, Tyros 5, PSR S975, PSR 2100
and PSR-47.
Former keyboards: PSR-S970.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCLVwWdb36Yd3LMBjAnm6pTQ?view_as=subscriber



Toril's PSR Performer Page
 

Offline DerekA

Re: My personal vent on SX700....
« Reply #2 on: January 26, 2021, 12:56:59 PM »
AWM2 as used on SX700 is a fully featured subtractive synth engine. So this is more about how much control you, as an end user, are given over that engine.

The front panel gives access to some basic parameters such as cutoff frequency and resonance.

Using YEM gives you full control over elements, envelopes, LFO, etc.

But I do agree that it would be nice if we could adjust all those parameters via the keyboard panel, especially now we have a touch screen.

I'd even pay for a firmware update that includes that.
Genos
 

Offline overover

Re: My personal vent on SX700....
« Reply #3 on: January 26, 2021, 01:37:34 PM »
... Using YEM gives you full control over elements, envelopes, LFO, etc. ...

Unfortunately, Preset Voices can only be edited for Genos and Tyros5 in YEM, but not for PSR-S and PSR-SX models. With the latter you can only edit Custom Voices that only use your own samples.


Best regards,
Chris
« Last Edit: January 26, 2021, 08:21:37 PM by overover »
They always said: "This is not possible!"  Then someone came and - just did it!

Never put the manual too far away.  There's more in it than you think!
 

Offline Gios

Re: My personal vent on SX700....
« Reply #4 on: January 26, 2021, 02:19:19 PM »
But I do agree that it would be nice if we could adjust all those parameters via the keyboard panel, especially now we have a touch screen.
I'd even pay for a firmware update that includes that.

I don't find it right to limit the editing of sounds in this way. For me it's just a commercial factor, as the on-board software implementation would cost nothing for YAMAHA. I understand that the TARGHET of the keyboard is 'SIT AND PLAY' but the proposed editing is very little. There are also a whole host of sounds that can only be used for STYLES and cannot be played from the L / R1 / R2 / R3 keyboard. WHY ?? .... Other sounds where it is not possible to have the SUSTAIN from the PEDAL. ?? .... I can't think that these are programming BUGs, as YAMAHA I don't think has poor programmers, but I still think they are commercial choices. It could be that I'm wrong, or that I expected more performance with 1000 .........
 

Offline DerekA

Re: My personal vent on SX700....
« Reply #5 on: January 26, 2021, 03:59:01 PM »
Remember you can always buy a MODX if you want full sound editing capabilities.

That's Yamaha's commercial choice.
Genos
 

Offline Fred Smith

Re: My personal vent on SX700....
« Reply #6 on: January 26, 2021, 04:12:56 PM »
I don't find it right to limit the editing of sounds in this way. For me it's just a commercial factor, as the on-board software implementation would cost nothing for YAMAHA. I understand that the TARGHET of the keyboard is 'SIT AND PLAY' but the proposed editing is very little. There are also a whole host of sounds that can only be used for STYLES and cannot be played from the L / R1 / R2 / R3 keyboard. WHY ?? .... Other sounds where it is not possible to have the SUSTAIN from the PEDAL. ?? .... I can't think that these are programming BUGs, as YAMAHA I don't think has poor programmers, but I still think they are commercial choices. It could be that I'm wrong, or that I expected more performance with 1000 .........

Personally, I don't think they're bugs. I think they are limitations of Midi 1.0. And it's impressive how much Yamaha has gotten out of Midi 1.0 (Megavoices being one example), that the original designers of midi never thought would have been possible.

I also think it's a good idea for Yamaha to build a keyboard for the "sit and play" market, because they get a keyboard at a reasonable price, and don't have to pay for bells and whistles they will never use. If you're not a "sit and play" player, you shouldn't buy a sit and play keyboard.

Cheers,
Fred
Fred Smith,
Saskatoon, SK
Sun Lakes, AZ
Genos, Bose L1 compacts, Finale 2015
Check out my Registration Lessons
 

Offline Lucille Chung

Re: My personal vent on SX700....
« Reply #7 on: January 26, 2021, 05:37:40 PM »
I really like what I've seen of the AWM2 editing on the Montage.       Pretty happy with the PSR's, but next machine will be a synth.
PSR-SX900 and PSR-S910
 

Offline Al Ram

Re: My personal vent on SX700....
« Reply #8 on: January 26, 2021, 06:52:30 PM »
Sorry to hear you are not getting your moneys worth . . . . perhaps you can still return the keyboard and get your money back ?

Not so sure if the limitations are so much on the keyboard or maybe lack of research before buying ?

In any event . . . . . . . . hope you enjoy something out of it .. .  .

Have a great day.
AL
San Diego/Tijuana
 

Offline mikf

Re: My personal vent on SX700....
« Reply #9 on: January 26, 2021, 08:06:14 PM »
Here we go again - The old 'this keyboard only dances and it wouldn't have cost Yamaha hardly anything to make it sing as well" complaint.
Come on - what is wrong with commercial choices?? You make the choice based on your needs and resources.
Mike
« Last Edit: January 26, 2021, 08:29:27 PM by mikf »
 

Offline overover

Re: My personal vent on SX700....
« Reply #10 on: January 26, 2021, 09:47:49 PM »
Hi Gios,

all important information about Yamaha keyboards are listed on the respective product page, for the SX700 here:
>>> https://uk.yamaha.com/en/products/musical_instruments/keyboards/arranger_workstations/psr-sx700/index.html

You will also find all manuals and other downloads there, for the SX700 here:
>>> https://uk.yamaha.com/en/products/musical_instruments/keyboards/arranger_workstations/psr-sx700/downloads.html#product-tabs

If you haven't already done so, please download at least the following three manuals as PDF versions: Owner's Manual, Reference Manual, Data List. (It's best to download ALL manuals at once. :) )

Alternatively, you can use the Yamaha Support pages:
Manuals: >>> https://uk.yamaha.com/en/support/manuals/index.html?l=en&c=keyboards&k=psr-sx700
Firmware & other Software: >>> https://uk.yamaha.com/en/support/updates/index.html?c=keyboards&k=psr-sx700
Documents & Data: https://uk.yamaha.com/en/support/docs_data/index.html?l=en&c=keyboards&k=psr-sx700

The three manuals mentioned above should actually be downloaded BEFORE you plan to buy a keyboard. It is best to also download the manuals for the corresponding larger models (in this case SX900 and Genos). So you can compare the technical data, functional differences, etc. BEFORE buying.

By the way: I too often come up against technical limits with my Yamaha keyboards (Tyros5 and Genos). But we have to live with that ...

Just one example: In 2014, when the Genos was still in the development phase, Yamaha Europe invited some "power users" (including myself) to some meetings with the Japanese Genos development team. Of our suggestions at the time, what could be improved on the Genos compared to the Tyros5, a maximum of 10% have been implemented to date. (The Genos came out in 2017, and we are now at firmware version 2.02, with new functions being added and improvements made.)

P.S.
I recommend that you take a look at the Yamaha Synthesizers, e.g. Montage, MODX and MOXF:
>>> https://uk.yamaha.com/en/products/music_production/synthesizers/ Montage/index.html
>>> https://uk.yamaha.com/en/products/music_production/synthesizers/modx/index.html
>>> https://uk.yamaha.com/en/products/music_production/synthesizers/moxf/index.html

These Synths have a lot more control over sound editing, controller routing etc. than arranger keyboard models like PSR-SX or Genos. Maybe it's THAT what you're actually looking for ...

P.P.S.
The two Japanese Yamaha development teams "Synth" and "Digital Workstations" (= arranger keyboards) are, by the way, completely independent. And traditionally these two teams are very reluctant to let each other "look into each other's cards". The Yamaha synths therefore differ extremely from the arrangers in almost every detail. (Except maybe that the same tone generator chips are used. ;) )


Best regards,
Chris
« Last Edit: January 26, 2021, 09:56:46 PM by overover »
They always said: "This is not possible!"  Then someone came and - just did it!

Never put the manual too far away.  There's more in it than you think!
 

Offline janamdo

Re: My personal vent on SX700....
« Reply #11 on: January 26, 2021, 10:44:04 PM »
Personally, I don't think they're bugs. I think they are limitations of Midi 1.0. And it's impressive how much Yamaha has gotten out of Midi 1.0 (Megavoices being one example), that the original designers of midi never thought would have been possible.

I also think it's a good idea for Yamaha to build a keyboard for the "sit and play" market, because they get a keyboard at a reasonable price, and don't have to pay for bells and whistles they will never use. If you're not a "sit and play" player, you shouldn't buy a sit and play keyboard.

Cheers,
Fred
Hi Fred

But its still a attractive idea to get a own sound on a sit and play keyboard like the psr sx700
People say then, wow never heard before this melody

Jan
 

Offline EileenL

Re: My personal vent on SX700....
« Reply #12 on: January 26, 2021, 11:09:39 PM »
You can edit on board sounds and just by using different DSP of effects make it sound quite different.

Offline Toril S

Re: My personal vent on SX700....
« Reply #13 on: January 26, 2021, 11:29:38 PM »
Yes, the voice set feature is underrated!
Toril S

Genos, Tyros 5, PSR S975, PSR 2100
and PSR-47.
Former keyboards: PSR-S970.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCLVwWdb36Yd3LMBjAnm6pTQ?view_as=subscriber



Toril's PSR Performer Page
 

Offline Gios

Re: My personal vent on SX700....
« Reply #14 on: January 27, 2021, 10:00:22 AM »
Hi everyone
I think I have been misunderstood.
I am passionate about music, I work in a software development company, I am an electronic technician. My point of view is from this perspective. Nobody told me to buy SX700 for which I am convinced of the purchase made, but I have only highlighted some points of this keyboard that would make it even more performing than it already is. Analyzing the audio editing options (which in other Arranger of other brands of the same price range are fully implemented), I do not understand why YAMAHA has not included them in the SX700. I think that inside there is an optimized and customized linux environment where for those who develop, the inclusion of some functions, which are not too high but are now normal, would have cost nothing! ....... In my previous experience, the total knowledge of a keyboard, has always occurred through a direct approach and many of the times the manual is consulted only in extreme cases. However, mine is not a destructive criticism, on the contrary it is a feedback that could only be an improvement for the keyboard.

p.s.
speaking of manuals ....
where can I find a block diagram to understand which parameters are registered within a REGISTRATION. For example I discovered, as not documented in any manual, that changes made on a VOICE and not saved on a NEW USER VOICE can be stored in a REGISTATION.




« Last Edit: January 27, 2021, 10:31:05 AM by Gios »
 

Offline DerekA

Re: My personal vent on SX700....
« Reply #15 on: January 27, 2021, 11:17:46 AM »
I think that inside there is an optimized and customized linux environment where for those who develop, the inclusion of some functions, which are not too high but are now normal, would have cost nothing!

where can I find a block diagram to understand which parameters are registered within a REGISTRATION. For example I discovered, as not documented in any manual, that changes made on a VOICE and not saved on a NEW USER VOICE can be stored in a REGISTATION.

Please don't feel attacked. The topic of how much editing should be available on the arrangers comes up often and there are different views.

It's not true that it would cost nothing, as was explained the arranger software team is separate from the synth software team. Support for deep editing on the arranger would need to be developed from the start.

Regarding the registration - look at the data manual (available online alongside the reference manual), it contains a parameter chart showing which parameters are saved in registrations, song files, etc.
Genos
 

Offline Gios

Re: My personal vent on SX700....
« Reply #16 on: January 27, 2021, 11:51:39 AM »
Please don't feel attacked. The topic of how much editing should be available on the arrangers comes up often and there are different views.

I will certainly not be the first to raise this lack. However, if I can create a VOICE with my SAMPLE on YEM, I set an ADSR on CUTOFF and add an LFO (where the SINE WAVE is strangely missing) I import it on the SX700 and the parameters are safely performed by the AUDIO ENGINE, because I cannot implement them directly from the keyboard ..... Only the GUI is missing ....

P.S. thanks, i will look for this diagram on the manual .....
 

Offline victorsp

Re: My personal vent on SX700....
« Reply #17 on: January 27, 2021, 06:06:49 PM »
Good afternoon Gios and all the members of the forum. I totally agree with what you say. A few weeks ago I commented if it would be very difficult to implant in the yem, that the internal samples of the percussion or voices (especially the percussion) can be combined, nobody manifested, I thought I was the only one who had this need. Roland, ketron, korg ... more than 30 years ago it allowed you to combine the samples on the percussion and do according to your taste, avoiding constantly breaking down the parts and assigning. I am happy with the psr sx 900 so much so that I have 2 units.
Gios, if you are a computer scientist and some of this forum who are wondering, could you find a method to create a ppi record that would search once the internal selected samples are loaded in the psr?
Greetings and good health to all.
PSR SX900,  TYROS 4,  PSR 910, TYROS 2, PSR 3000
 

Offline Lucille Chung

Re: My personal vent on SX700....
« Reply #18 on: January 27, 2021, 11:48:57 PM »

Everything is a balance of features and price.

I've always considered the PSR a good attempt to sound exactly like existing instruments.     It's a sampler.   That's what it's good for.   And it does it well.  If I want to sound unique with new original sounds, then I'd use a synth and create my own.   

Every company balances these things differently.   Some companies don't even make samplers.   Comparing a Roland Fantom to a PSR doesn't make sense for instance, since Roland doesn't do sampling.   And I'm not sure that trying to extend the PSR to do extensive sound editing along with it's increased cost is really where the PSR market is.

Just my take from the noob gallery.
PSR-SX900 and PSR-S910