Author Topic: Tyros 5 | Voices from HDD  (Read 3405 times)

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Tyros 5 | Voices from HDD
« on: January 10, 2021, 12:50:17 PM »
Hello.

I am having my Tyros 5 for a quite long time.
Sounds for my new production are up to the task, not outdated.

So I am wondering.
I can make my sf2 voices - Easy.
But I want them to be on my harddrive - not RAM. (not loaded through YEM)

Is there any way around it?
I mean, come on, 500GB is pointless for  me (dont make styles, registrations etc.)
I just need my samples or sounds to be localy on HDD (they are quite heavy)
Any ideas? Ram emulators, special programs, piece of code?

Thanks for a response, and help.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2021, 12:52:49 PM by studiostred »
 

Offline EileenL

Re: Tyros 5 | Voices from HDD
« Reply #1 on: January 10, 2021, 01:15:03 PM »
You have to have flash memory fitted in your keyboard to use all sampled voices. You can not use them from Hard Drive. No work around for this.
 
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Re: Tyros 5 | Voices from HDD
« Reply #2 on: January 10, 2021, 01:24:29 PM »
Thank ;) you very much for your reply.
However, it is not normally possible, but as a programmer I know, I have done a lots of impossible things.

So, maybe some "clever-head", who knows how to get around this stuff will appear.
Once again, I very appreciate it.  ;) 8)
 

Offline Fred Smith

Re: Tyros 5 | Voices from HDD
« Reply #3 on: January 10, 2021, 02:04:28 PM »
Thank ;) you very much for your reply.
However, it is not normally possible, but as a programmer I know, I have done a lots of impossible things.

So, maybe some "clever-head", who knows how to get around this stuff will appear.
Once again, I very appreciate it.  ;) 8)

Your problem is speed. The HDD is way too slow for voices to be used in a live setting.

There was a good thread a couple of years ago on how much data transfer is required for voices. It was more than HD TV data rates.

When you find a hard drive that fast, you can do what you want. Until then, you need RAM.

Cheers,
Fred
Fred Smith,
Saskatoon, SK
Sun Lakes, AZ
Genos, Bose L1 compacts, Finale 2015
Check out my Registration Lessons
 
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Re: Tyros 5 | Voices from HDD
« Reply #4 on: January 10, 2021, 02:11:21 PM »
Hi,

Nowadays with HDDs speed reach impossible hights.
I can see (from my personal experience) to be a good solution.
I buy a new HDD, ultra fast one, but what is the nexr step ... ?
 

Offline Bill

Re: Tyros 5 | Voices from HDD
« Reply #5 on: January 10, 2021, 02:42:52 PM »
Hi,

Nowadays with HDDs speed reach impossible hights.
I can see (from my personal experience) to be a good solution.
I buy a new HDD, ultra fast one, but what is the nexr step ... ?

As Eileen has already said, you can buy the fastest HDD available BUT you will still not be able to use it for additional sound samples.  Your only option is to use the Installed RAM and use YEM.

Bill
England

Current KB:  YAMAHA GENOS OS Ver. 2.10
 
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Offline wersianer

Re: Tyros 5 | Voices from HDD
« Reply #6 on: January 10, 2021, 02:47:26 PM »
Maybe one day Yamaha will manage hard drive streaming ... we'll all have to wait until then ;).
 
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Re: Tyros 5 | Voices from HDD
« Reply #7 on: January 10, 2021, 02:50:12 PM »
Hope so, otherwise, the instrument is (in this particular case) for me completely useless.
I am so sorry for saying that ... ;(
 

Offline Normanfernandez

Re: Tyros 5 | Voices from HDD
« Reply #8 on: January 10, 2021, 02:55:54 PM »
For a decent HDD Speed The RPM Should be minimum 7200,
Norman Fernandez Keyboardplayer
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCngm8h5k5NmKnowJpkxlDBQ

PSR S770 - Roland FP 30 - PSR 280
Cubase - Kontakt6
 
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Re: Tyros 5 | Voices from HDD
« Reply #9 on: January 10, 2021, 03:08:50 PM »
Hello.
I would definitely buy an SSD HDD
 

Offline Fred Smith

Re: Tyros 5 | Voices from HDD
« Reply #10 on: January 10, 2021, 03:12:48 PM »
Hello.
I would definitely buy an SSD HDD

Still won't help.

You'd be better off trading in your Tyros for a Genos, where at least you'd get additional memory you could actually use.

Cheers,
Fred
Fred Smith,
Saskatoon, SK
Sun Lakes, AZ
Genos, Bose L1 compacts, Finale 2015
Check out my Registration Lessons
 
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Offline RoyB

Re: Tyros 5 | Voices from HDD
« Reply #11 on: January 10, 2021, 03:30:55 PM »
You can get a 2GB expansion board for the Tyros 5, which might help a bit, but still you probably won't get many SF2 samples onto it.

Not exactly what you are after, but as you seem to be comfortable with PCs, if you fancy tackling a project you could have a look at my thread on using a PC expansion module for playing SF2 sounds as if they are expansion sounds.

https://www.psrtutorial.com/forum/index.php/topic,56973.0.html

It isn't perfect and does require a fast PC and fast hard drive, but I did get decent success if you want to use SF2 samples for RH and LH parts mixed in with the regular Tyros voices. If you have a modern PC, you could give it a try (costs nothing to try it with your existing PC).

Regards

Roy
Roy

Tyros 5-76; Roland FA08; Yammex V3; Behringer Q502USB; Arturia BeatStep; Alesis Elevate 3 MkIII;  Yamaha YST-FSW050; MT StudioPro; Sony MDR 7510

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCQu3I6XidcZWOmsl_FM49_Q/videos
 
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Re: Tyros 5 | Voices from HDD
« Reply #12 on: January 10, 2021, 04:29:30 PM »
Still won't help.

You'd be better off trading in your Tyros for a Genos, where at least you'd get additional memory you could actually use.

Cheers,
Fred

So let me recap this...
1. I cannot do in on my Tyros5 (which was a kind of big investment for me).
2. I can do it on Genos.

Somebody at the factory, at the development section  - should consider making a patch, at least!
 

Re: Tyros 5 | Voices from HDD
« Reply #13 on: January 10, 2021, 04:34:46 PM »
You can get a 2GB expansion board for the Tyros 5, which might help a bit, but still you probably won't get many SF2 samples onto it.

Not exactly what you are after, but as you seem to be comfortable with PCs, if you fancy tackling a project you could have a look at my thread on using a PC expansion module for playing SF2 sounds as if they are expansion sounds.

https://www.psrtutorial.com/forum/index.php/topic,56973.0.html

It isn't perfect and does require a fast PC and fast hard drive, but I did get decent success if you want to use SF2 samples for RH and LH parts mixed in with the regular Tyros voices. If you have a modern PC, you could give it a try (costs nothing to try it with your existing PC).

Regards

Roy

I am after exactly, what you have described.

To use some VSTs, make SF2 and play them.
Sounds of 2021 are different from those from 1995, so I would think, someone at the factory thought it through when they were developing the system.

I will have a look at your suggestion, for sure. Thank you for that.
But, to be able to use whatever I want in real-time, with 1 instrument - is somewhat crucial.
 
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Offline danand

Re: Tyros 5 | Voices from HDD
« Reply #14 on: January 10, 2021, 04:58:46 PM »
2. I can do it on Genos.

No you can't do what you plan (load sounds directly from HD) even with Genos!
The answer provided Fred concern ONLY the amount of flash memory (although as  already stated by RoyB, you can install a 2GB flash memory on Tyros 5).

You made an "investment' (buying Tyros-5) without double checking if the keyboard was able to do what you want...
Yamaha use this technology for all the recent keyboards.
I don't know why (I also don't care, personally).

In any case, as far as know, even the faster HD can't help on "sound loading". Not in Tyros or Genos but in any synth, arranger, keyboard etc..
In most cases there is the use of RAM memory (flash memory) involved.
You load from HD to RAM and then play. Even computer VST's works this way.
There is always the need for a very fast buffering memory in order to play along the keyboard.
Even "streaming" is actually the reproduction of small chunks of data, but not directly from HD, always there is a buffering memory.
 
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Re: Tyros 5 | Voices from HDD
« Reply #15 on: January 10, 2021, 05:11:50 PM »
You made an "investment' (buying Tyros-5) without double checking if the keyboard was able to do what you want...

Well, how do you know what I did, when I bought it, were you with me at the music store  ;D :D ;)?

I want to keep it technical, not personal - but know, if you are interested anyways.
I did specifically asked many times, if there is such a huge harddrive if everything
what I want (sample, styles, pads) can be stored and used at any time.

Mr. Danand,
I might know the shallowest parts, but not the deepest parts of every ecosystem
on the planet. But, if a developer gives me an option to have 500GB HDD.
I probably think I can use it. Correct me if I am wrong.
 

Offline RoyB

Re: Tyros 5 | Voices from HDD
« Reply #16 on: January 10, 2021, 06:38:43 PM »
I am after exactly, what you have described.

To use some VSTs, make SF2 and play them.
Sounds of 2021 are different from those from 1995, so I would think, someone at the factory thought it through when they were developing the system.

I will have a look at your suggestion, for sure. Thank you for that.
But, to be able to use whatever I want in real-time, with 1 instrument - is somewhat crucial.

I had it doing exactly that - in fact, my project had it able to play 4 SF2 instruments at the same time (RH1, RH2, RH3 AND LH) all selectable and changeable in real time and mixable with Tyros 5 voices (I've tried to attach a photo to show this but don't know if it has worked). They can also be saved and called up in registration files just like expansion voices saved in Tyros flash memory. The only real difficulty is when they are used as voices in MIDI files, but they can be made to work in those.

It takes some experimenting to optimise the SF2 files to get them to load instaneously without delay, and it does require a fast PC. I found that I needed to put all the SF2 files into one folder (mine are on a SSD drive), and I found it best to use multi-instrument SF2 files. I would anticipate some limitation as to the maximum SF2 instrument size that would work satisfactorily - some of my instrument SF2 samples are several hundred MBs, and I have in total approx. 400 hundred SF2 expansion instruments available in 2 multi-instrument SF2 files that are 4GB and 3GB in size.

The second part of my project was to be able to select VST instruments in real time directly from the Tyros to use them in a similar way as above. As you are aware, VSTs can be very slow at loading, so this part of the project involved pre-loading up to 16 VST instruments on the PC and then selecting from those pre-loaded VST instruments in real time on the Tyros as if they were expansion voices. For simplicity, I restricted it to RH1 and LH, but you could also add RH2 and RH3 - it just requires more midi mappings.

Regards

Roy



Roy

Tyros 5-76; Roland FA08; Yammex V3; Behringer Q502USB; Arturia BeatStep; Alesis Elevate 3 MkIII;  Yamaha YST-FSW050; MT StudioPro; Sony MDR 7510

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCQu3I6XidcZWOmsl_FM49_Q/videos
 
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Offline Normanfernandez

Re: Tyros 5 | Voices from HDD
« Reply #17 on: January 10, 2021, 06:42:36 PM »
Which VSTs are you using? (Roy)
Norman Fernandez Keyboardplayer
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCngm8h5k5NmKnowJpkxlDBQ

PSR S770 - Roland FP 30 - PSR 280
Cubase - Kontakt6
 

Re: Tyros 5 | Voices from HDD
« Reply #18 on: January 10, 2021, 06:57:43 PM »
I had it doing exactly that - in fact, my project had it able to play 4 SF2 instruments at the same time (RH1, RH2, RH3 AND LH) all selectable and changeable in real time and mixable with Tyros 5 voices.

Good evening Mr.Roy.
I would have just loved to hear, that YAMAHA had contacted you and offered you a huge pile of dollars on pallets in front of your house, for your Know-How. The system, you have created, is well above my head, but
quite understandable for engineers developing the workstations ecosystem. They are paid and they should make it work ''under the hood''. We pay for developed and finished instruments.

I think I have just 2 solutions.
1. being, that with an SSD drive someone finds a way, patch, simple route to get around it.
2. being, sell it or change it for something else, where loading file on HDD is just, simple - as it should be.

 

Offline RoyB

Re: Tyros 5 | Voices from HDD
« Reply #19 on: January 10, 2021, 07:47:02 PM »
I have accumulated a large collection of 64-bit instrument VSTs over the past few years. Almost all of the ones I tested in my project I could get to work (including Kontakt libraries). The attached pic shows how they are selected on my Tyros.

If you are comfortable installing typical PC software, editing SF2 files, and working with VST instruments, then you can give this a try. You will need to rename the Tyros .vce voice files that I have prepared to suit your instruments as detailed in my document files. The only difficult bit about it is doing the MIDI mappings. I have done these already, so all you need to do, if you follow the setup as I desrcibe,  is to download the configuration files from my Google drive. I think you said you had done computer programming - well the logic for the MIDI mappings is similar to the kind of conditional logic that you would use in low-level computer programming.

This sort of thing with VSTis has been done by Wersi in its OAS operating system (which uses Windows 10) - if you have a lottery win to pay for it. In Wersi OAS you can utilise and load selected VST instruments, but I understand it slows down start up considerably as it pre-loads the VSTs (and it does seem to have difficulty with some VSTis).


Regards

Roy

Roy

Tyros 5-76; Roland FA08; Yammex V3; Behringer Q502USB; Arturia BeatStep; Alesis Elevate 3 MkIII;  Yamaha YST-FSW050; MT StudioPro; Sony MDR 7510

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCQu3I6XidcZWOmsl_FM49_Q/videos
 
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Re: Tyros 5 | Voices from HDD
« Reply #20 on: January 10, 2021, 08:06:04 PM »
You are a very well educated and experienced programmer and musician indeed, Sir.
But I think, I am going to try and go another way.
More comfortable way in that sense.

I will make my sample from Vst to Sf2, go-to music store, and try to load and
play with it straight away with various intruments.

Maybe, maybe ... other instruments can do so, much more effortlessly - even older ones.
(I know what Yamaha Tyros5 does well, it is a great instrument)
so I will give it a try.

And, I believe, the other forum user will benefit from your suggestion, Sir.
Well done! Great achievement, indeed. Respect!
 


Offline DerekA

Re: Tyros 5 | Voices from HDD
« Reply #22 on: January 10, 2021, 09:24:51 PM »
I think I have just 2 solutions.
1. being, that with an SSD drive someone finds a way, patch, simple route to get around it.
2. being, sell it or change it for something else, where loading file on HDD is just, simple - as it should be.

It's going to be #2 for you then. Best of luck.
Genos
 

Offline danand

Re: Tyros 5 | Voices from HDD
« Reply #23 on: January 11, 2021, 12:02:57 AM »
Well, how do you know what I did, when I bought it, were you with me at the music store?

No I wasn't there. You are the one who declare in your previous message "which was a kind of big investment for me".
I was commenting YOUR message, I wasn't spying you at the music store...

I want to keep it technical, not personal

I also don't have any intention to personalize this, but the "technical" aspect of the question is already answered by many users: It is not possible to do what are you looking for with Tyros 5 (or any other recent Yamaha arranger). Simple and "technical"