Topic: Genos USER drive files, access and management

[TyrosPhil]

Hi
If my search/browse of the forum has missed this please re-redirect me.
I am not new to the forum, the Tyros 2 and certainly not computers and files systems (having taught it at uni all my working life), but this is eluding me and now bugging me.
I will try to be as precise as possible so that I am on-point.

Although my new-to-me Genos is wonderful and the touch screen is brilliant (at last! but I crave it to return to lower case after the first-entered capital) , I still prefer to manage My Music from my computer (Windows), through the USB link.
On the computer I organise My Music folders/files as follows:
My Music
   + some artist
   + some artist
   + some artist
   + Vangelis
         Conquest of Paradise
         Love Theme
         :
         Chariots of Fire
             Chariots of Fire.RGT
             Chariots of Fire.STY
             Chariots of Fire.TXT
             Chariots of Fire Score.PDF
             Chariots of Fire.MID
             Chariots of Fire.MP3
             Chariots of Fire.WAV
             Chariots of Fire.PAD
             Chariots of Fire Right 3.VCE

etc.

Connecting to the Genos, it was trivial to create a new Root folder call MY MUSIC
and transfer all this to it.
However, to my surpirase, when I disconnected to play the Genos, I could not find/navigate to this folder when pressing either
SONG/STYLE on the top panel
Song/Style/Registration/Pad etc from the Home Screen

I can get to the RGT from an entry I create on the computer(via my excel spreadsheet, export as tab-delimited text and then rename as tsv) in a Playlist and then from PLAYLIST.

I can get to the STY, MID,MP3,VCE and everything via the brilliant Yamaha Registration Manager (Genos update) and building RGT files, BUT NOT
via the Genos built-in registration manager on screen.

Correct me, then, if I am wrong, but it seems that Genos insist for its internal software that Styles WILL ONLY BE FOUND in the STYLES root folder, and so on.

So this will mean that I will have to pass a "comb filter" through My Music to seperate/replicate all this out to:

STYLES
  My Music
     + some artist
     + Vangelis
         Conquest of Paradise
         Chariots of Fire
             Chariots of Fire.STY
VOICE
  My Music
     + some artist
     + Vangelis
         Conquest of Paradise
         Chariots of Fire
             Chariots of Fire Right 3.VCE
             Chariots of Fire Right 2.VCE
SONG
  My Music
     + some artist
     + Vangelis
         Conquest of Paradise
         Chariots of Fire
             Chariots of Fire 1.MID
             Chariots of Fire 2.MID
             Chariots of Fire.MP3
             Chariots of Fire (Tyros 5 demo).MP3
             Chariots of Fire.WAV
RGT
  My Music
     + some artist
     + Vangelis
         Conquest of Paradise
         Chariots of Fire
             Chariots of Fire.RGT
             Chariots of Fire.TXT
etc.

So before I go to this mammoth length of re-organisation, is there another way?  Am I missing one last piece of the jig-saw?

I do know that it would work the way I want it to if I were to simply store everything on a big USB drive, but whilst ther is so much room on the internal pseudo-Hard Drive, how else better to use it and manage it via direct connection to my computer (which is next to it, PLEASE,PLEASE Yamaha, fix that I can do this via wifi in the next revision!).

As this is an Arranger Keyboard, unless I am missing something, it does not seem particularly well set up for working with the PC to manage to non-performance/play aspect of library management.
Any thoughts and help you can offer will be eagerly awaited.
Phil

[DerekA]

In principle this should work.

The inbuilt UI applies a filter to the currently selected folder so you only see the files of the right type (selecting a song only shows MID files etc). But folders themselves are always displayed.

I recommend setting up this structure for an artist / song directly on the keyboard (using the inbuilt UI to create folders etc), then connect to your computer and study what it looks like. I suspect your root is at the wrong level.

[ckobu]

Hi Phil,
I understand what you're talking about. Unfortunately, the content of Genos cannot be accessed as logically and viewed as on a computer. It has always been so and I doubt that will change.
I see you’re using registrations and a great Yamaha Registration Manager (thanks again Murray), so maybe my video will help you have a better overview of what’s on the USER keyboards.

https://youtu.be/CkYjZIpgwW0

[TyrosPhil]

Thanks for the early response.
DerekA's suggestions is where I had already been and have just tried again to confirm.
There is no equivalent of Windows Explorer, no ability to put anything anywhere except in the 'appropriate' sub-root(?) folder for each file type.  You cannot go 'up' from the current folder whilst at root level yet, when connecting through the PC-USB, you can clearly see the other folders and create other as you wish.
Curiously, the only deviant from this principle is saving a Playlist from the Preset folder, which puts the result in SYSTEM (strange idea)

I do not mind that the Genos applies a type-sensitive view filter to each folder you visit.  That works fine.   I just wish that it would let you back up a level instead of limiting your actions to
PRESET/USER (actually the specific sub-folder)/FAVOURITE (only for some) and imposing a  type-sensitive filter to folder access.

So MY solution is either that outlined above (space efficient) or
to replicate my entire My Music folder in each of RGT/STYLE/SONG/VOICE/ (inneficient and prone to error on change)
which would require meticulous synchronising between the PC image and the Genos image.

At least now I know and can stop wondering if I am being dumb.  But come on Yamaha, you made giant strides with the Genos (cf Tyros 2!), and one step back for humankind in taking away the unrestricted file manager.
Thanks for your help everyone, so now on with just enjoying the new toy.
Phil

[Stijn]

Correct me, then, if I am wrong, but it seems that Genos insist for its internal software that Styles WILL ONLY BE FOUND in the STYLES root folder, and so on.

Hi Phil,
You're correct. On the Genos each section is stored in its own folder in the USER section. So setting it up the way you want to can be done on a USB drive, but not on the USER drive.
I use this kind of layout in my Registrations folder but the other folders have alphabetically arranged folders.
In YRM it looks like this: C:/STYLE/Y/You don't have to say.S265.sty  /  C:/MULTI PAD/Y/You don't.S265.PAD and so on.

Read more about the Yamaha filing system here: https://psrtutorial.com/lessons/playing/files/10filesystem.html

Stijn

[Bill]

Hi Phil

Genos User Drive has it's own Preset File Structure as shown in the Pic below.
If you click on the Pic you can see clearly (do not try and simply expand the screen)

Bill



[attachment deleted by admin]

[Dromeus]

Hi Phil

There is an easy solution for your problem, and you are already aware of this. For your user data stay away from Genos internal USER memory. It restricts you to store files in predefined categories.

I use a flash drive to store all my data I need for a performance. This means in a folder "NameOfTheSong" I keep .rgt, .sty, .pad, .whatver. It is very natural to keep all these file in one place. Navigation via the User/USBx path does allow you to access everything independent from the file type. Note that I even store preset styles, multi-pads etc, even if unmodified, to this folder. This approach pays off if you upgrade to a future arranger model, where presets might be renamed or moved to some legacy folder.

I use a simple USB Switch to connect my flash drive to Genos and my PC. A simple button press is all that's needed to work with my Genos data either at the keyboard or at the PC. Life couldn't be easier.

If you care about "wasting" some USER memory: I use it as a repository for all user styles, multi-pads, songs, wave data etc, so it's easy to browse/search an listen to them. Any data that will be used in my own performance will be copied to the flash drive.

[DerekA]

You're correct. On the Genos each section is stored in its own folder in the USER section. So setting it up the way you want to can be done on a USB drive, but not on the USER

Well, I didn't know that. I knew you could do this on USB and just assumed it was the same on USER. Does seem a bit weird!!

Phil - if you want to use this structure, just store everything on USB and all will be well.

[Leading Edge]

I've been suffering the same issue on my SX900 in moving data from a Tyros 4.  The usb solution seems to be the best answer.  Thank you.

[TyrosPhil]

Thanks to Dromeus, for something I had never heard of - a USB switch.  Given that USB sticks are large enough now (even for a shipload of Wav and MP3s as well), I have concluded that this is the (practical way to go), such that the USB drive would mirror my PC repository.  As my Genos is now next to my PC workstation and permanently connected, perhaps we could call upon Yamaha in revision 2.3 to allow Genos-connected USB drives to be accessed remotely over the PC-USB link as well as USER.  After all, all-in1 printers, NAS units and even DVD and Media players all do that now.  But I suppose this still means switching the Genos off and on again into Host mode.
Hopefully this 'USB switch' solution would mean I can do this live. Safe disconnection/reconnection to Genos whist ON??
Thanks for all the confirmation and help.  I was soooo convinced I was not seeing the wood for the trees and believed Yamaha had to have don'e better.  Silly Me.

[overover]

...  perhaps we could call upon Yamaha in revision 2.3 to allow Genos-connected USB drives to be accessed remotely over the PC-USB link as well as USER.  ...

Hi TyrosPhil,

when using the "MusicSoft Downloader" program you can access both Genos User drive and USB flash drives connected to to Genos from the (Windows) PC.

Make sure that the Yamaha USB-MIDI Driver is installed on the PC, because the file transfer takes place via MIDI here. This is also the reason that this method is more suitable for small files (e.g. Styles, MIDI files, Registration files, User Voice files). So, the MusicSoft Downloader is not conditionally suitable for copying / moving larger files such as WAV files.
>>> https://uk.yamaha.com/en/products/musical_instruments/keyboards/arranger_workstations/genos/downloads.html#product-tabs

By the way: You can use the "right-click method" to copy/paste files from/to the individual locations.


Best regards,
Chris

[Dromeus]

Hopefully this 'USB switch' solution would mean I can do this live. Safe disconnection/reconnection to Genos whist ON??

Yes, PC and Genos reconnect successfully upon switching. I use this one and works like a charm:

https://www.amazon.com/-/de/dp/B07TS5JNT3/ref=pd_sbs_23_1/257-0097878-3549079?ie=UTF8&language=en_US&pd_rd_i=B07TS5JNT3&pd_rd_r=cc904c76-7f4e-4d83-8d60-5c5219660c30&pd_rd_w=kkB3g&pd_rd_wg=2ecuP&pf_rd_p=ed1e2146-ecfe-435e-b3b5-d79fa072fd58&pf_rd_r=PCNF2CC7F2X80SXQ4JKA&psc=1&refRID=PCNF2CC7F2X80SXQ4JKA

[Dave Nuttall]

Yes, PC and Genos reconnect successfully upon switching. I use this one and works like a charm:

https://www.amazon.com/-/de/dp/B07TS5JNT3/ref=pd_sbs_23_1/257-0097878-3549079?ie=UTF8&language=en_US&pd_rd_i=B07TS5JNT3&pd_rd_r=cc904c76-7f4e-4d83-8d60-5c5219660c30&pd_rd_w=kkB3g&pd_rd_wg=2ecuP&pf_rd_p=ed1e2146-ecfe-435e-b3b5-d79fa072fd58&pf_rd_r=PCNF2CC7F2X80SXQ4JKA&psc=1&refRID=PCNF2CC7F2X80SXQ4JKA

Michael:
One input from Genos from thumb-drive or HOST connector?

Thanks.
Dave