Author Topic: Excellent Rotary effect found!  (Read 1644 times)

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Excellent Rotary effect found!
« on: November 17, 2020, 03:22:51 PM »
Dear friends,

as a former owner of an Hammond with Leslie cabinet, in the many keyboards I had, I always searched for a decent "rotary" effect.

I found an excellent  effect on my Clavinova CVP309 (Rotary Speaker 5), enough intense, also featuring the gradual velocity change from slow to fast, and opposite.

Few days ago I got my new Genos, and I was quite disappointed for the "Vibrato" quality and intensity of Genos rotary effects.
But insisting in my search, I finally discovered that Genos still carries the effects from older keyboards, under the list "Legacy".
And I happily found that the beautifull "Rotary Speaker 5" is there!  ....just the same.

Before to go to detailed procedure, I need to strongly advise to connect an expression pedal (as Yamaha FC7), to may really enjoy the beauty of the organ sounds, including Leslie effect.
I use the expression pedals also for other sounds, like pads, solo instruments (sax, trumpet, synth, ecc.), getting more realistic results (the velocity control does not get to the same level of control).

-Press Right1 button (only: mute Right 2 and 3)
-Just above, press Voice Select-Right1 (a page with all the main voices will appear)
-In the left part of this page, select the voices group "Organs"
-Select "Gospel Organs" (since this is a Voice of the "Organ flutes", you may personalize the sound at your test trough the 9 drawbars/sliders, also adding Percussion, if needed)
-On the right part of the pannel, press "Voice" button
-In the Voice page, press Effect
-Press the area of Right 1 (small square space above the send effect slide controller
-Press "Type"
-On the left side, "Category", scroll to page 2 and
-Press "Legacy" (is where the many effects from older keyboards are)
-On the right side, scroll "Type" till page 32
-Select "Rotary Speaker 5"

-go to mixer, and adjust volume of Righ1 (this effect boosts volume a lot)
-to switch from Slow to Fast, and opposite, use the dedicated button on the left pannel.

That's it.

Please consider that by using the 9 drawbars, you can make hundreds of different Hammond sounds, starting from the epic organ sound of "A whiter shade of pale" (drawbars volume: 6-8-8-6-0-0-0-0-0, with a nice Reverb).

Hope it will help.

Greetings from Roma  :)

Angelo
Yamaha Genos, Clavinova Cvp309PE, Hs-8, Hammond Xm2.
Past: Farfisa Minicompact, CompactDeLuxe; Elkarapsody; Hammond L122R&Leslie142; CasioCz1000; Roland D50, E20, ProE, Juno106, JX8P, Ra90; Technics Kn800, 1000, 2000; Korg M1, i3, i30, Pa1x, Pa3x; others.
 
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Offline Toril S

Re: Excellent Rotary effect found!
« Reply #1 on: November 17, 2020, 03:46:07 PM »
Thanks a lot Angelo!!😀❤️
Toril S

Genos, Tyros 5, PSR S975, PSR 2100
and PSR-47.
Former keyboards: PSR-S970.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCLVwWdb36Yd3LMBjAnm6pTQ?view_as=subscriber



Toril's PSR Performer Page
 

Offline overover

Re: Excellent Rotary effect found!
« Reply #2 on: November 17, 2020, 04:40:21 PM »
Hi Angelo,

1) did you already try the following "new" Genos Rotary Speaker effect types?

Block: Chorus, Variation, Insertion 1 - 28
Category: Modulation
                   > Real Rotary
                   > Dual Rotary Speaker Bright
                   > Dual Rotary Speaker Warm
                   > Rotary Speaker 1

>>> Do you prefer "(Legacy) Rotary Speaker 5" to the effect types I mentioned? What do you think of the "Real Rotary" type?


2) What do you think about the following "combined" Rotary effects (Distortion / Overdrive / AmpSimulation + Rotary Speaker)?

Block: Variation, Insertion 1 - 28
Category: Legacy
                   > Dist + Rotary SP
                   > Dist + 2way Rotary SP
                   > OD + Rotary SP
                   > OD + 2way Rotary SP
                   > Amp Sim + Rotary SP
                   > Amp Sim + 2way Rotary SP         


P.S.
Detailed information on the parameter settings of the various Rotary effect types can be found in the Genos Data List, pages 64/65.

Edit: I just found that "Rotary Speaker 5" effect type is based on the CHORUS effect template (Data List, page 56), NOT on a "Rotary Speaker" template ... ;)


Best regards,
Chris


 
« Last Edit: November 17, 2020, 05:34:31 PM by overover »
Everyone always said: "This is not possible!" - Then someone came and ... just did it!
 
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Re: Excellent Rotary effect found!
« Reply #3 on: November 17, 2020, 06:40:38 PM »
Dear Chris,

thank you for comments and questions. I see that you are deeply interested to this matter.

I tested the other effect combinations, as you suggested, nice.

The choice of the Rotary, of course, as for any sound component, is a very personal fact. I just wanted to  share the result of my search, whose target was to find a rotary effect that could be enough near to the original Leslie, or not to far from it.

I also have an Hammond XM2 (module corresponding to XC1 Hammond Suzuki organ) with XM2c (drawbars unit for operating the module). It has a built in Leslie effect quite good. But I must say that I'm satisfied with Genos Leslie emulation. Therefore I'm not going to use the Hammond module, even though its sound is warmer than  Genos.

I hope you use an expression pedal, wich makes the real difference.

Thank you,

Angelo
Yamaha Genos, Clavinova Cvp309PE, Hs-8, Hammond Xm2.
Past: Farfisa Minicompact, CompactDeLuxe; Elkarapsody; Hammond L122R&Leslie142; CasioCz1000; Roland D50, E20, ProE, Juno106, JX8P, Ra90; Technics Kn800, 1000, 2000; Korg M1, i3, i30, Pa1x, Pa3x; others.
 

Offline intheword

Re: Excellent Rotary effect found!
« Reply #4 on: July 15, 2021, 12:46:50 AM »
This is a great topic of interest to me!  The Real Rotary effect that is assigned to the Gospel Organs voice has a big problem, when you switch from slow to fast, it hits the fast vibrato instantly, it does not gradually speed up, like a real Leslie.  I tried your setting Angelo and it sounds wonderful to me. 

So then I decided to try to assign this Legacy Rotary Speaker 5 setting to the voice called All Bars Out.  What was strange, was after I assigned the Legacy effect to this other patch, the vibrato went from slow to fast instantly, and sounded horrible.  I was confused because the speed up on the Gospel Organ voice was not super fast but gradual.

Here is another question from a newbie, how can I save the Legacy Leslie effect to the Gospel voice so every time I select it "remembers" the new effect?

Also, what buttons can I press in order to activate the 9 drawbars so I can adjust them while I am playing the keyboard in real time?

Thanks!  Robert
 

Offline Art S.

Re: Excellent Rotary effect found!
« Reply #5 on: July 15, 2021, 02:05:52 PM »
Leslie effects are very subjective and of course personal taste. 
Also the manner in which these effects are achieved are personal.
I have found (at least for me), that it is easier to just create my own drawbar settings
with modified Leslie effects that I prefer and then save them to user memory.
As a whole, I find that the factory settings are just a little too fast.

Here is a link to some of the drawbar settings I have created, if you like them, feel free to share with others.

https://app.box.com/s/3j0g1pose2bdy0uzn6yz570q6rnn0tq7

 
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Offline DerekA

Re: Excellent Rotary effect found!
« Reply #6 on: July 15, 2021, 03:38:21 PM »
Here is another question from a newbie, how can I save the Legacy Leslie effect to the Gospel voice so every time I select it "remembers" the new effect?

Also, what buttons can I press in order to activate the 9 drawbars so I can adjust them while I am playing the keyboard in real time?


You've got two choices for the effects.

+ One option is to set up the voice with the DSP as you want it (which can include tweaking the DSP parameters) then save to a registration.

+ Another option is to tweak the DSP parameters as you want them, and save it to a User effect. Then load up the voice, assign this User effect to it, and save that modified voice as a User voice.


You also have two choices for the drawbars. Remember these only work for OrganFlutes! voices.

+ One option is that when you have an OrganFlutes voice selected press the 'slider assign' button. The small display will cycle between the different options, one of which will be the drawbar settings. Incidentally if you have OrganFlutes on more that one part (eg R1 and R2) then repeatedly pressing the 'slider assign' button will let you choose which part the drawbars are controlling.

+ Another option is to press Menu then Voice Edit, which will bring up a picture of the drawbars on the screen which will be controlled by the sliders.
Genos
 
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Offline andyg

Re: Excellent Rotary effect found!
« Reply #7 on: July 15, 2021, 05:06:13 PM »
The Real Rotary effect that is assigned to the Gospel Organs voice has a big problem, when you switch from slow to fast, it hits the fast vibrato instantly, it does not gradually speed up, like a real Leslie.
Thanks!  Robert

To be accurate, this depends on the type of Leslie or rotary speaker. Most of us want that Classic twin rotor sound, cabinets like the venerable Leslie 122 and 147. If you listen to these cabinets switch from slow to fast or vice versa, the treble frequencies do change speed almost instantly as the treble horns in the Leslie are so lightweight. It's the lower frequencies that run through the drum rotor that take time to change speed. The crossover frequency is 800Hz, so a lot of the sound you hear does change almost instantly. It's this combination of different speed changes between treble and bass that gives that characteristic wind up/down that we all know and love.

I'm not a fan of Real Rotary. It's not a good effect IMHO and I've Yamaha's guys that to their faces! I never use it and I'll always use the Dual Rotor Bright, as I think it's the closest option to the Classic Leslie 122/147 sound. It does take some tweaking of the parameters to get things just right. The more experience you have of real Leslie cabinets, the more fussy you become. That's 51 years for me and believe me, I am uber-fussy!  ;D

It's been a long time since I've used anything like Rotary Speaker 5, so I've just tried it. This particular effect is one emulating a single rotor leslie, like a 125, or an internal leslie. Effectively the bottom half of a 122/147 with all the sound going through the drum rotor and taking so 4 seconds or so to change speed. If this is the sound you're used to (perhaps you've previously had a Hammond with something like the 125 or 110) and it's what you want, then great - it does a good job of it. But with respect it's not really the right leslie effect for Gospel. A gospel player will almost always have a B-3 Hammond (or a C-3 or at least one of the A/B/C series) and the Leslie will be almost certainly a 122, so you'd hear that speed change I described.

Do a bit of careful listening to some real gospel players and how they use that speed change, with the highs and lows moving separately. And I'd encourage you to try out Dual Rotor Bright and Dual Rotor Warm. :)
« Last Edit: July 15, 2021, 05:10:08 PM by andyg »
It's not what you play, it's not how you play. It's the fact that you're playing that counts.

www.andrew-gilbert.com
 
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Offline intheword

Re: Excellent Rotary effect found!
« Reply #8 on: July 15, 2021, 08:55:32 PM »
Thanks for the excellent feedback!