Topic: A little something

[ugawoga]

https://www.meldaproduction.com/MonasteryGrand?source=newsletter&id=MonasteryGrand

[Genos!]

I've been watching that beer in your hand and the smile on your face for quite some time now, and I always wondered what you were up to.

Pilsen Czech monastery beer! Now I know and the secret is out.

This "freebie" will play on the free MSoundFactory player, nice.

It is quite the download. Maybe I will have to stick with Yamaha's premium CFX and C7 Concert Grand Pianos in the Genos.

Thanks for the beer tip. Dark monastery Christmas beer is the best! (from experience Germany)


Note: You sparked something in my brain. I now remember buying this: SALE85% off on PRIPYAT Pianos $199 $29 until AUGUST 31, 2020. https://strixinstruments.com/pripyat-pianos/ I will have to track down my purchase.

P.S. I surely hope that I don't have some-timers, but I'm not getting any younger.

[EileenL]

Yamaha Piano's are very very good and with a little tweaking can sound just great. I don't think any concert pianists bye Genos anyway but for my money they are good.

[ugawoga]

Hi Genos
I have been silent for  a while now as that mixing apprentaship has to be done
It has taken some time now  and almost got the hang of it .
I have sorted the bass ends out and weight in a mix is proving quite a task
Now using Neutron and Ozone to mix and master, but had some poor results.
After going through tons of videos i am seeing the light and each time a start afresh , i get a little further.
Getting the Genos right is harder than getting vst right in my view.
Yes, i will break out the Budweiser soon!!
Or maybe a double Scotch!!

All the Best
John

[elad770]

Thank you so much for the link although I'm trying to figure out what is it that you are trying to achieve from all these tweaking of sounds?

I wish someone, one day will share a good set of registration file that bring out ALL the capabilities of Yamaha piano sounds. It''s flat out of the box and i don't have the time to play with all the compressors and other things. Those of you who have rgt files with ONLY good piano sounds in all kinds of combinations please share! 

[Bachus]

Yamaha Piano's are very very good and with a little tweaking can sound just great. I don't think any concert pianists bye Genos anyway but for my money they are good.

Yamaha grand piano’s have a very specific sound to them.. they are a bit brighter then wesetern piano’s like the steinway, which are darker and full of harmonics..  you will never be able to make yamaha samples sound like the western piano’s Steinway, Bechsstein, Bõsendorfer, Fazioli..  because AWM uses subtractive synthesizing, which means you can only remove things but not add them..

Yes, the Yamaha piano’s do sound good... but its much like only having a Rhodes EP and Wurlitzer in your Genos... or an Alt sax but no other saxes..

Where the Yamaha grand piano’s shine is in an arranger tough, in the mix, the cut trough it... but for solo playing i prefer the european grands, they have more depth and nuance in their sound.. most arranger players will not notice this, as they do not often use their arrangers for playing solo, and obviously are quite happy with their Yamaha grand piano sounds..

With the addition of the CFX in the Genos, i think Yamaha made a step compared to the Tyros..  And its more then enough for the average arranger player.  I would like to see them add the Bösendorfer sound tough, maybe even as a free expansion pack..   but i cam to the conclusion, that for a better piano experience, you require a great 88 key hammer action at first, and if you go that way, it comes with many many top knotch piano sounds of itselves.. and if thats not enough, there is allways the VST’s on PC, or even the Ivory piano’s and the Ravenscroft on an ipad..


So long story, i changed my mind over time, there is nothing wrong with the Yamaha grand piano’s in the Genos from an arrnager players point of view.

[ugawoga]

Hi Elad

It is very deceiving when it comes to the sounds of the Genos .
Some people who really are experienced at sounds etc can make the Genos sound like a million dollars.
It is getting to know those secrets which can never be found that easily.
you can use all the compression settings and different factory eq's , on the Genos but some how they are not the same as what you hear when the experts get hold of it.
It would be nice for those experts to share their information.
It really is all about mixing and mastering which will take novices like me  the rest of my life to achieve, but Ozone and Neutron together can get pretty close for the novice
It is getting bass, mids and highs right and tonal balance. Also getting the right weight to different parts to sound more pro.
You look at some adverts on the Genos and wonder ,how they get this machine to sound like that.
So we keep tweaking and never reach that ultimate goal. Funny That!!
The room you are in also has bearing on the sounds as well.

For those who are happy with out of the box Genos ,that is ok , but some of us would like to go deeper without going hexadecimal!! .
For me i am finding out that trying to achieve some new heights fun.
It is like a 1000 piece jigsaw. The holy grail to finding the missing piece
The main thing also is to practice ,practice for your own pleasure . That pays off.


All the best
John

[Lee Batchelor]

The Genos pianos are basically very good after you tweak them to match the sound capabilities of your speakers. I also agree that they are excellent in the Genos mix. As standalone solo pianos for backing a singer, which I did a lot of pre-COVID, they're not even housebroken.

I like what Nord did with their pianos. For a long time, they provided excellent B3 organ samples but their pianos were terrible. They finally decided to dedicate sufficient memory just for their piano sample starting with the Nord 5D, I believe. Yamaha should take a lesson from Nord on this one. Memory is cheap compared to the overall cost of the Genos. The piano voice is probably the most used and universal voice on any keyboard. It deserves the best engineering.

Playing the Genos piano voice in the living room or on stage in a mix sounds fine. For recording, you need to use VST pianos. The difference is in the sample size. In the Genos, it doesn't make sense to provide incredible SA2 voices but mediocre sounding pianos. All it takes is a few extra memory chips to provide decent solo pianos.

[ugawoga]

Hi Lee
VST quality sounds far outweigh the Genos and ten times easier to mix
I have just finished three songs on the Genos and now mixing.
It is far harder to get weight and that vst clarity to a song made on The Genos
With the Genos a lot of sounds have to have EQ'd and  things like hooting  in the orchestra's eq'd out for example.
I have taken a long time going slowly with the Genos and the mix. Now just starting to see some light.
I set myself a goal to my next birthday to get the mix and mastering done by March 15th next year to an acceptable level.
With Ozone and Neutron you can take reference tracks of your choice to master match and now things are getting closer to what i had always wanted.
Ozone is great at what it does , it is just the operator at the moment.
You can master to 14 lufs for streaming and make another for CD.
That combined with Sonarworks should do the trick.
I will get back on the scene when completing my mission as ego has to be pushed back.


All the best
John

[Genos!]

Mixing... hmm. Well, most of it is done by the band members in general. We call it "jelling", or how well the band "jells" or fits together.

A good band will not "step on each other" by avoiding playing together within a certain frequency range at the same time (unless purposefully, tastefully, and positively, augmenting the sound in some way).

Musicians can add to the vocalist or distract away -- there' no room for the me, me, me mentality, but sometimes it crops up.

Anyway been feeling fortunate because we: write the songs and music, do all of the arranging, perform the songs (sing) and music (play), do all the mixing and mastering, do all of the cd artwork and the websites, and fortunately, or unfortunately, we do all of the marketing and distribution.

We also own all of our wonderful equipment outright, so no payments to make, etc., and no pressure(s).

Our biggest asset is teamwork. We are both retired! I love her singing and guitar playing, and she loves my sax playing, and musical and technical avenues (all that I do), per se. She is also an art major and I believe that helps, too.

Honestly, CoViD has not affected us in the least. Our biggest challenge is trying to keep the momentum going during the passing of friends and loved ones, and that can be really tough at times.


I have not tried this latest plugin, but it is by Sonible, and they produce some good plugins!

You might want to check this out, and FREE is always a good price:

https://www.sonible.com/balancer/

[Genos!]

I have just tried the new plugin from Sonible, Focusrite Balancer, and it is good up to a point.

I find that almost ANY plugin that is added muffles the sound, as is the case also with Balancer.

However, how I would use it is to take the final mix and try it with warm/normal/bright modes.

Does the final mix sound "better" in any of the 3 Balancer modes? If it does, well...

If it does, then you are not done... time to go back and re-adjust your mix.

That is the extent to which I would use Balancer.


However, someone without all the bells and whistles may be happy just using it as is!


Note: Upon looking up all my purchases I have a few interesting additions with iZotope.
  - Iris 2 ($10), RX 7 Elements (FREE), and Ozone 9 Elements (FREE).
  - I guess no Neutron at the moment for me.

[ugawoga]

Hi Genos
looking at your picture , you must be the crazy laid back sax player with that  cool hat.
Nothing wrong with plenty of sax.
You are very lucky Genos to have a band of merry men around you when you mix and master.
I have to fly blind and hope for the best as all my friends are either racing or model airplane flying and when we get together it is boring if i talk music.
Good ol' Dave talks about Grand Prix or fast cars. We only have football, SWINDON TOWN in common. " Who R yer!" COYR.
I find with the Genos i cannot get that crisp weighty sound , but with vst it is all there.
You have to work harder with Genos sound.
I would love to have a mate around the corner to swap ideas with and a harsh critic as i have a ducks back!!
I set myself a target with getting covers right , then on to my space rock adventure where i have a million ideas.
I come from that crazy era when Quatermass , Keef Hartley Band, Second Hand, Seventh Wave ,Black Widow ,Yes , JMJ, Rick Wakeman, Boston ,Chicago.  Also i am a Soulman  Wilson pickett.
Still love ska and Bluebeat, Atlantic, Stax , Northern soul.
The list goes on well Beach Boys YES!!!  fun Fun Fun!!
What about Lily the Pink!!  Classic!!
Got no Buds tonight, it is Fillet Steak and a bottle of Merlot with my life long Sandra and a couple of candles on the table with some Chris rea and Paul Carrack.
By the way that picture was in Antigua. Never met Jack Sparrow though!! That could of been rum!!!


All the Best
John

[Genos!]

Yes, well, It's actually a picture of the two of us...

I guess you are familiar with the sax player (me)...
but, the lady in the pic is the guitar player (she)...

and yes, she is a blond incase you were wondering.

And well, as for the band, they don't come around much.


So, I 'm pretty much same as you with my h/w s/w bandmates!!
Although I do have 3 saxes, I cannot play them and sing at the same time.

And although she can sing and play guitar, she cannot play all 3 guitars at the same time either!

And since neither of us are professional keyboardists like the group here in the forum...
well, some of them possibly at any rate...

The Genos, FA-08, TritonLe, WK-3700, various sound modules, effects boxes, AND even
some REAL instruments are my band for the moment, although it would be interesting.


As far as monitors I have 4 mackie speakers... 2 HR624 Studio Mons and
then there are two SRM215 V-Series (2000W each) speakers for my Genos

...and well, also the rest of the system when it's time to rock!

Why buy Band In a box ,when you have a Genos in a trunk???

And how true?!! The hard case for the Genos IS a trunk!


P.S. I have a kinda final verdict for Sonible vs. iZotope, and my vote goes to iZotope!
  - While Sonible Focusrite Balancer colored the mix, iZotope Ozone 9 Elements seems very clean.
  - Sonible's smart: Series plugins for EQ2, EQlive, Comp, and frei:raum seem to be ok (future project).

[ugawoga]

Hi Genos
I must admit the guitar player has overdone the botox.
Anyway i love the sax which is the next best thing to a human voice.
I am slowly getting used to Ozone 9.
I will give you a demo when i have satisfied myself that i am close as possible to what i am trying to achieve
I would like to hear what others have achieved with the Genos and Ozone 9/ Neutron.
It would be nice hear on PSR TUT to have a mix column where the Psr and Genos owners can swap ideason a very hard subject.
I do find when firstly balancing a song in Neutron and  selecting the focus, it does not always come out as I like.
I find the best start point is to do the gain staging yourself.
Once you have the balance it is in my view easier to go into the Neutron and finally Ozone from there.
My results so far are 80% there IMO.
I have to go back and study the small things  to get it in my skull or bonce.
Eq ,Compression stereo imaging, tonal balance, low end focus etc . A lot to take in.
I am ok now with Eq and compression it is just getting the right weight and fullness in the mix keeping the clarity.


All the best
John

All the best
John

[mikf]

John - I find myself simultaneously fascinated and bemused by the lengths you are prepared to go for the perfect sound and mix. Everyone pursues their own interest I suppose, but my perspective is that my playing is not so wonderful that it justifies all this post recording work.
But I wait with bated breath to hear the results and be convinced!!
Mike

[gskip]

All this talk about getting the perfect mix and balance reminds me of the time I spent working on my Tyros 4 with a good headset because of a small practice space.
I thought everything was as good as I could get it until I did a gig with my pa speakers. What a disaster!
I now try to get as good a mix as I can with my speakers even though I still have to compromise somewhat.
I too wish there was a way to share Genos setup registrations (using various speakers) and see how other players balance their sounds. It’s easy to just say try this master eq and compression setting but “one size doesn’t fit all”.
Skip

[Genos!]

The truth of the matter is that we both work offline from the Genos most of the time.

Once all of the instruments are playing their score and well balanced and reasonably sonically confined (gelling), then comes the mixing, then the later mastering process.

There is a lot of good news in working this way. No hardware so far is as flexible as the PC/Mac, including the Genos. And, quite frankly, there is almost no room for any "super-good" libraries of sounds, as these can be huge.

What can be done though, is at the end of the process all of the Genos instruments can be dropped (muted) and everything re-done. The resulting midi files and audio can be loaded into the Genos to be used in various formats. THESE files can be used by people who do play arranger keyboards.

Hence, that is why you will see us striving to learn more and more about our studio environments. There is a LOT more investment involved in what we do other than just purchasing an arranger keyboard. And, I guess to a large extent, getting the mixing and mastering down is kind of a "holy grail".

After all of this, it IS possible to then go back and make the necessary adjustments to the Genos: instrument selection, midi / audio play-along mixes, and final EQ/Compression tweaks.

Few people buy arranger keyboards to help produce "radio quality" cds. Fewer people even bother buying hardware such as keyboards and modules for producing their sound. Most everybody buys a fairly powerful PC/Mac and lots of VSTs and VSTis.

There is a lot of good to be said about hardware and modules. Quite often the sound quality is quite good comparatively, and the latency is very good (quite low). It also doesn't require a high-end computer to be able to work with everything as compared to going the full-bore DAW VST route.

Those who do buy the arrangers (in general) buy them to perform for their enjoyment, with or without an audience.

[ugawoga]

Hi mike
The Mountain is there and it has to be climbed.
I love music and want the highest possible quality that i can get.
I have even a great hi-fi system to play my prog rock on and also the music my other half likes.
Even sandra now appreciates high quality music now that she has heard it. Like most women also a transister radio will do
Men love fiddling with Knobs!!
Also vinyl is a must.
I would love to get my music to Cd level at least, even if i am the only person listening to it and make my own library.
At 69 ,i am not going on the road, but i always say you are never too old to learn.
This is always a great thing to beat off memory loss as you get older and unwiser.
Once i get the recordings right with the Genos, i will obviously share information.
With the Genos it is a battle even to get the EQ right and if you keep changing it ,you also have change your registrations to match (tweaks forever).
When i recorded my last song i did not record it flat and ran into problems, so i started again.
I am dertermined to get it right and what i do is take it all slowly once the recorded song is in Cubase 10.
If you foul up you can always go back if saved.
This is how i am getting on with Neutron and Ozone 9.
Another big mistake i have made during the learn process and bouncing down the mix is not turning Sonarworks off "oh Blast"!!
Now i am getting into Tonal Balance, low end focus, and stereo imaging etc.
I now realize it is all small moves to get places when mixing and understanding the ins and outs of EQ and compression.
The funny thing about all of this is that i used to get a better recording out of the Tyros 5  from the word go than the Genos.
The Genos is more involved in my opinion.
Be nice to have a chat forum on mixing
Cup of coffee now, i am going to turn into the COOKIE MONSTER  " I love biscuits"! Ugawogaaaa!!!igiwigi!!!! HOB NOBS!!


All the best
John

[EileenL]

Well John.
   I hope you reach your goal and leave yourself enough time to enjoy playing your keyboard with the results you are aiming for. Time passes so quickly and is very precious.

[ugawoga]

Hello eileen
Hope you are keeping well and healthy, also the other half!!
Do not worry, i set myself a target . My next Birthday. March 15th. " Watch out Julius Ceasar"!!!
I am starting to get results now and so close to what i want.
I practice every day for two hours.
Today i practiced Beyond the Sea, Wishbone Ashe's song , "The King will come ", Going loco in Acapulco, Brothers in arms to relax!!
I have very diverse taste in music
I have to shove the ego out of the window for now!!

All Best
John


All the best
John

[Genos!]

The Genos is "tricky" to record for a number of reasons.

The Genos has a relatively thin sound and has a lot of good processing power, which makes it sound really good. In reality, this is exactly what you want to start with. When mixing with VSTs and other keyboards, a dry balance should be formed in regards to thickness and placement utilizing volume and panning and depth (distance or mic'ing). Some doubling or thickening may also be needed.

It also is relatively tricky as you're trying to make everything look like one band playing in the same space. You're trying to make it look like one big spotlight on the same deer, instead of 2 or more spotlights on two or more different deer in different forests. There is a lot to get right, and so it can easily become a bit tricky.

At times it may be even necessary to split off different sections into different parts of the mixes so they have their own bus. You may have to make several recording passes with the Genos by splitting off certain solo instruments or sections to their own auxiliary and/or sub bus, just to be able to have the flexibility that you will need later.

Once everything is mixed, it's then necessary to bind everything together into one seamless performance or sound. This last step is usually reserved for mastering. There would be something strange about listening to a concert and having every song sound like it's being played by a different band in a different location.

It's this last part that we are trying to avoid.

I find that the whole creation process is relatively intuitive. The sound may not be quite right, so you leave it and come back to it later. But, even when you do feel like something is 100% spot on, you still give it another day. It also helps if you can have another set of ears give it a listen.

I grew up playing in different bands and types of bands, and you definitely know when something sounds wrong. A lot of you grew up listening to different band "concerts" on long playing LPs and CDs/DVDs. You, too know the difference. But lately everyone's grown up listening to what they want when they want with little coherence.

Mixing and mastering is not for everyone. When everything is right you will know it, and so will your listeners.

[ugawoga]

Hi Genos
I am having a good go with the Genos.
I will let you know when i have finished as far as i can go.
I do agree with you that the Genos has thinner sound, but i do split my songs made up to different tracks and try to fatten things up.
To enhance i use Sampletank and  Korg collection. Also i had a go at vocoding as i cannot sing. That is tricky until you get used to it.
I use as little effects and lay off too much processing as i can.
The songs that i have done, i am trying to get that 1970 type  sound, so there is no sub bass and too many frills needed.
The kicks and snares are way too loud out of the box on the Genos and have to be brought down a peg or two.
As you say ok for the people who play just for enjoyment.
Apart from being billy no mates in my man cave , i am doing the best that i can.

All the best
John