Author Topic: sx900 silent key on one voice!  (Read 2878 times)

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Offline anon125

sx900 silent key on one voice!
« on: August 06, 2020, 05:34:22 PM »
please search for a vibraphone voice. there are 2.
select the one that is preset:/perc.&drums
see if it plays on G above middle C.
mine is very quiet!
is it all sx900s or do i have a dud one?
Is this sort of thing common?
Thanks all
 

Offline LaHawk

Re: sx900 silent key on one voice!
« Reply #1 on: August 06, 2020, 09:36:56 PM »
 Vibraphone (perc & drums) plays fine on all notes on my SX-900

 Don't remember any Yamaha preset voices having that particular problem. Is it only the vibraphone /perc/drums?
Maybe a keyboard reset?
Larry

Hawk Music Center
PSR-SX900
 

Offline anon125

Re: sx900 silent key on one voice!
« Reply #2 on: August 06, 2020, 10:41:54 PM »
Thanks.
i have not tried all 1000+ voices.
Maybe a keyboard reset is worth a try.
i think you hold a particular key down when you switch it on.
Edit. reset did not help
thanks
« Last Edit: August 06, 2020, 10:59:19 PM by anon125 »
 

Offline Lucille Chung

Re: sx900 silent key on one voice!
« Reply #3 on: August 07, 2020, 11:36:29 PM »
anon125,

I just checked the Perc/Drums Vibraphone in my SX900.    It's brand new (2 weeks).    It has a reduced volume on this middle G key as well - maybe 50 0r 60% of the other keys.   Other G keys seem normal.   

I've tried some voices which have dead keys as well - have to start making a list.   Maybe someone will care ;-)

PSR-SX900 and PSR-S910
 
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Offline anon125

Re: sx900 silent key on one voice!
« Reply #4 on: August 08, 2020, 01:00:29 AM »
Thanks very much
Post the list so far please.
 

Offline Aldred Chung Chan

Re: sx900 silent key on one voice!
« Reply #5 on: August 08, 2020, 05:13:22 AM »
anon125,

I just checked the Perc/Drums Vibraphone in my SX900.    It's brand new (2 weeks).    It has a reduced volume on this middle G key as well - maybe 50 0r 60% of the other keys.   Other G keys seem normal.   

I've tried some voices which have dead keys as well - have to start making a list.   Maybe someone will care ;-)



Fancy seeing you here  8)
 

Offline EileenL

Re: sx900 silent key on one voice!
« Reply #6 on: August 08, 2020, 03:58:10 PM »
Sounds like the rubber strips have not been fitted correctly. Get in touch with your dealer or Yamaha and they will advise on what to do.

Offline anon125

Re: sx900 silent key on one voice!
« Reply #7 on: August 08, 2020, 05:00:27 PM »
Surely the rubber strips would affect all voices on that key, not just a few?

Also our volume control is usally set at about 10 o'clock so not very loud.
put the volume at max and the difference is less noticable.
Thanks all
 

Mark Nidelson

  • Guest
Re: sx900 silent key on one voice!
« Reply #8 on: August 08, 2020, 06:36:50 PM »
You need send this for service.  :-X
 

Offline anon125

Re: sx900 silent key on one voice!
« Reply #9 on: August 08, 2020, 06:50:23 PM »
or replace it with a korg!!
 

Offline blackpool

Re: sx900 silent key on one voice!
« Reply #10 on: August 08, 2020, 07:14:29 PM »
Enough said on that one !! .... better the devil you know, although my EK is better than any PA I have had for ease of use. I will always be with Yamaha for my 'main' board.

Best thing to do is ring Dan in support on Monday 0344 811 1116 he has a 900 in situ.and can test while your on the line....sure he will check out this small glitch for you. he's around from 10am. during the week.

Things like this do happen from time to time, sure you can live with it for now.

We are still finding anomalies with the 700/900 they are not 'that' old.

Keith 
 

Offline EileenL

Re: sx900 silent key on one voice!
« Reply #11 on: August 08, 2020, 10:30:17 PM »
The rubber strips can be faulty in a coupe of places and only affect certain notes.

Offline blackpool

Re: sx900 silent key on one voice!
« Reply #12 on: August 08, 2020, 11:35:47 PM »
Yes maybe Eileen...but surely this would affect all voices on those particular notes .. and he is talking about one voice only being affected ..so I can't imagine this being the cause. It is obviously another issue here.
Keith
 

Offline Francesco Massa

Re: sx900 silent key on one voice!
« Reply #13 on: August 09, 2020, 04:42:14 PM »
Do you listen to the same problem also with headphones?
Genos
Previously owned: PSR-740, Tyros2, Tyros3, Tyros4 & Tyros5
 
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Offline Aquilauno

Re: sx900 silent key on one voice!
« Reply #14 on: August 09, 2020, 06:42:50 PM »
Tried on my SX900 ... the impression is that the sound of the G and the A is slightly lower, since it only does it with one voice (vibrato) it could be a sampling problem, but this is extremely unlikely ( impossible), I tried another T5 vibrato voice, same phenomenon. Simply, I believe that it is that particular frequency of the Vibrato (a percussive sound) where the note (G) and perhaps also the note (A) gives the impression of a lower volume, a kind of auditory illusion, but the difference is just audible, in a nutshell the defect is more in the human ear than in the SX900, which is more likely ... ;) To confirm that it is not a key problem, try to decrease and increase the transapose by 1 and -1 the "defect" moves with it, so no probrema in the white key (G).
Pietro
 
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Offline anon125

Re: sx900 silent key on one voice!
« Reply #15 on: August 09, 2020, 06:46:48 PM »
Do you listen to the same problem also with headphones?
Good question.
our old sony headphones can hear those frequencies but not the super duper fancy sx900 speakers!
any ideas on that?
thanks
 

Offline anon125

Re: sx900 silent key on one voice!
« Reply #16 on: August 09, 2020, 06:51:57 PM »
Aquilauno  transpose even just 1 and we can hear it.
please explain!
but of course the half step away now cannot be heard!
thanks
« Last Edit: August 09, 2020, 06:54:38 PM by anon125 »
 

Offline Aquilauno

Re: sx900 silent key on one voice!
« Reply #17 on: August 09, 2020, 07:42:25 PM »
anon125
Is it just me who has difficulty understanding your English?you should use the google translator, sometimes I can't understand the questions ... I tried to go down or up an octave with the use of "transpose" the two buttons, extreme left of the SX900.
As you increase, or decrease, by one octave, the sounds on the keyboard move. If I increase by 1 to play the G in the same key, I will have to press the G key one octave below the previus position(the central C will also move to the left).
Now if you play the G just after the C, you will notice the same lowering of the volume, but on a different octave, while if you play in G (in the previous original position) you will notice no difference in volume. So, it's not a mechanical problem, felts or grease ...;)
PS: But how did you come up with the idea of ​​going to hear note by note and instrument? LOL
« Last Edit: August 09, 2020, 07:47:12 PM by Aquilauno »
 

Offline SeaGtGruff

Re: sx900 silent key on one voice!
« Reply #18 on: August 09, 2020, 08:11:33 PM »
My best guess, based purely on what little I know about how voices normally "work," is that this particular voice uses at least two different elements, each of which is mapped to a specific range of notes (not keys). The note where the voice seems to be quieter is probably where the two elements transition from one to the other.

Is it possible to use YEM to examine how a given voice is "put together" as far as its elements, and edit the elements' parameters to create a user voice?
Michael Rideout
Current keyboards: Yamaha YPT-400, PSR-E433, PSR-E443, PSR-EW400, MX49 BK
Current controllers: M-Audio Axiom 61-II
Previous keyboards: Farfisa Matador 611; Casio CTK-710
 

Offline anon125

Re: sx900 silent key on one voice!
« Reply #19 on: August 09, 2020, 08:35:17 PM »
go up or down on transpose just 1 and the key next to G will have the problem.
 

Offline anon125

Re: sx900 silent key on one voice!
« Reply #20 on: August 09, 2020, 08:36:52 PM »
I looked up YEM but am none the wiser!
what is YEM?
 

Online Toril S

Re: sx900 silent key on one voice!
« Reply #21 on: August 09, 2020, 08:50:36 PM »
YEM stands for Yamaha Expansion Manager. It is a program used for downloading expansion voice and style packs.
Toril S

Genos, Tyros 5, PSR S975, PSR 2100
and PSR-47.
Former keyboards: PSR-S970.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCLVwWdb36Yd3LMBjAnm6pTQ?view_as=subscriber



Toril's PSR Performer Page
 

Offline Aquilauno

Re: sx900 silent key on one voice!
« Reply #22 on: August 09, 2020, 08:59:51 PM »
My best guess, based purely on what little I know about how voices normally "work," is that this particular voice uses at least two different elements, each of which is mapped to a specific range of notes (not keys). The note where the voice seems to be quieter is probably where the two elements transition from one to the other.

Is it possible to use YEM to examine how a given voice is "put together" as far as its elements, and edit the elements' parameters to create a user voice?


I totally agree

Pietro
 

Offline Francesco Massa

Re: sx900 silent key on one voice!
« Reply #23 on: August 09, 2020, 10:21:47 PM »
Good question.
our old sony headphones can hear those frequencies but not the super duper fancy sx900 speakers!
any ideas on that?
thanks

I suspect the problem could be your room, if it has no sound treatment. Try to play the note moving yourself in different position. Do you still have the problem? (Or also moving the SX to different points in the room)

Edit: you can also try to search for the voice  "SoloSine" and play the same G note with this voice.
« Last Edit: August 09, 2020, 10:26:51 PM by Francesco Massa »
Genos
Previously owned: PSR-740, Tyros2, Tyros3, Tyros4 & Tyros5
 

Offline panos

Re: sx900 silent key on one voice!
« Reply #24 on: August 09, 2020, 10:25:01 PM »
I think Michael is maybe right.
I just heard the vibraphone sound on my s750.
I didn't know until now that this voice is moving from the left to the right speaker as you play higher pitch notes  :) 

The note G in question, is the one that plays exactly at the center of the speakers.
Is there a chance this thing to cause a trouble or something to Anon's keyboard speakers if the voice in questions works the same way on the SX900?

Offline anon125

Re: sx900 silent key on one voice!
« Reply #25 on: August 09, 2020, 10:36:56 PM »
I called 2 stores. both had sx900s with the same problem.
one said it was bad sampling.
thanks all
 

Online Toril S

Re: sx900 silent key on one voice!
« Reply #26 on: August 09, 2020, 11:21:51 PM »
Then we will have to live with it!
Toril S

Genos, Tyros 5, PSR S975, PSR 2100
and PSR-47.
Former keyboards: PSR-S970.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCLVwWdb36Yd3LMBjAnm6pTQ?view_as=subscriber



Toril's PSR Performer Page
 

Offline jwyvern

Re: sx900 silent key on one voice!
« Reply #27 on: August 10, 2020, 09:52:48 AM »
I'm guessing the vibraphone described by anon is the same as on Genos, voice nos. 104,001,012. On Genos the voice is also not as strident on the F#, G, G# keys above mid C. (The hammer attack is attenuated and initial brilliance lost compared with other notes). Could be due to the sample used for these notes although Yamaha would need to have assigned samples to roughly every 3 notes to explain  the effect.
Or as Panos discovered, IF the variable pan is being achieved by 2 almost identical voice elements progressively changing pan settings, when the pan becomes close to Central the 2 elements will almost coincide in position, which is known to cause interference and changes in timbre. But I have not gone as far as to check in YEM to find out  ::)  :)

John
 

Offline Aquilauno

Re: sx900 silent key on one voice!
« Reply #28 on: August 10, 2020, 10:31:07 AM »
hi
jwyvern described the phenomenon very well "...The hammer attack is attenuated and initial brilliance lost compared with other notes..."

The problem of the G is revealed only with the vibrato voice, even trying the Tyros 5 vibrato the same thing happens. With all other voice... brass, guitar, celestia, sax etc the phenomenon of the G disappears.

Conclusion It is not a problem with the button, nor with the grease nor with the felt pad.
that would have been solved only with of the assistance, it is not a problem of your sx900, it applies to everyone if it is a good or a bad depends on us;)

It may be a sampling error, but it is impossible for Yamaha to have failed in this. Michael's explanation is very plausible. And I agree with Toril, we will make it a reason, with the loud volume, the style in play, the OTS, and the other 2 voices, I challenge anyone to notice the problem, if it is a problem.

vibrato is not the sound I use and I probably never would have noticed ...
Pietro
 

Offline SeaGtGruff

Re: sx900 silent key on one voice!
« Reply #29 on: August 10, 2020, 12:16:03 PM »
I think Michael is maybe right.
I just heard the vibraphone sound on my s750.
I didn't know until now that this voice is moving from the left to the right speaker as you play higher pitch notes  :) 

The note G in question, is the one that plays exactly at the center of the speakers.

Is there a chance this thing to cause a trouble or something to Anon's keyboard speakers if the voice in questions works the same way on the SX900?

The part I highlighted suggests another possibility that I'd thought about, which is that the waves from two sounds can interfere with each other, either canceling out or reinforcing each other in different parts of the waves. This can even happen with the "same" sound, as when a sound is reverberating in a room, or done deliberately by adding a delayed copy of a sound to itself, etc.

One comment that was interesting-- if I read and understood it correctly-- is that the sound seems okay if headphones are used. This suggests that the noticed effect (or "defect"?) is happening when the sounds from the left and right speakers interact with each other in the air, since headphones would prevent them from interacting in that manner. And if the effect is most noticeable with the note that's panned dead center, it might be because when one speaker's sound is louder than the other's then the cancellation doesn't occur to the same degree, or there is more reinforcement in some places, etc.

I stress that these are just SWAGs ("scientific wild-assed guesses"), so I might be far off the mark. But in any case, it might be that it isn't a "keyboard fault" or "voice defect," just a natural auditory phenomenon.
Michael Rideout
Current keyboards: Yamaha YPT-400, PSR-E433, PSR-E443, PSR-EW400, MX49 BK
Current controllers: M-Audio Axiom 61-II
Previous keyboards: Farfisa Matador 611; Casio CTK-710
 

Offline Aquilauno

Re: sx900 silent key on one voice!
« Reply #30 on: August 10, 2020, 12:25:50 PM »
The part I highlighted suggests another possibility that I'd thought about, which is that the waves from two sounds can interfere with each other, either canceling out or reinforcing each other in different parts of the waves. This can even happen with the "same" sound, as when a sound is reverberating in a room, or done deliberately by adding a delayed copy of a sound to itself, etc.

One comment that was interesting-- if I read and understood it correctly-- is that the sound seems okay if headphones are used. This suggests that the noticed effect (or "defect"?) is happening when the sounds from the left and right speakers interact with each other in the air, since headphones would prevent them from interacting in that manner. And if the effect is most noticeable with the note that's panned dead center, it might be because when one speaker's sound is louder than the other's then the cancellation doesn't occur to the same degree, or there is more reinforcement in some places, etc.

I stress that these are just SWAGs ("scientific wild-assed guesses"), so I might be far off the mark. But in any case, it might be that it isn't a "keyboard fault" or "voice defect," just a natural auditory phenomenon.


I know this phenomenon and I fully subscribe the Michael posts  .
« Last Edit: August 10, 2020, 12:30:42 PM by Aquilauno »
 

Offline EileenL

Re: sx900 silent key on one voice!
« Reply #31 on: August 10, 2020, 12:35:25 PM »
I have now tried this voice on my keyboard. If you go into the settings you will see this voice is set in the ON position of 3band EQ. Turn it to off and the voice plays as it should. Try selecting a different EQ setting or DSP.
 
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Offline Aquilauno

Re: sx900 silent key on one voice!
« Reply #32 on: August 10, 2020, 01:18:05 PM »

Great Eileen,
effective idea ... mystery solved WOW!!
 

Offline Francesco Massa

Re: sx900 silent key on one voice!
« Reply #33 on: August 10, 2020, 01:57:26 PM »
I tried the voice on my Genos and it seems to play very good also on speakers, maybe it could be a small issue from Yamaha for some models. But the A key is a bit louder in my case!

EDIT Sorry I hadn't read Eileen's message, I confirm the problem is gone with that orribile mono EQ disabled!

There is another similar issue on the voice "Diapason" (of concert organ). The note C1 (2 Octaves under middle C) is very loud compared with the other ones above (I'm referring to the Genos voice, but could be different on other keyboards)
« Last Edit: August 10, 2020, 02:07:53 PM by Francesco Massa »
Genos
Previously owned: PSR-740, Tyros2, Tyros3, Tyros4 & Tyros5
 

Offline jwyvern

Re: sx900 silent key on one voice!
« Reply #34 on: August 10, 2020, 03:15:43 PM »
Yes, at least on Genos (I do not have sx 900) the 3Band DSP is deliberately set to minus 12 Midgain over a very narrow frequency band around 400Hz. So there's the explanation for hearing a weaker sound around that frequency.
Why on earth it is set like that is anyone's guess. As suggested it sounds much better when turned off!
John
« Last Edit: August 10, 2020, 03:21:51 PM by jwyvern »
 

Offline EileenL

Re: sx900 silent key on one voice!
« Reply #35 on: August 10, 2020, 03:42:10 PM »
Yes John it is a strange setting and would have been better left to OFF but thank goodness we can change all these things to our own liking.

Offline anon125

Re: sx900 silent key on one voice!
« Reply #36 on: August 10, 2020, 05:10:09 PM »
I have now tried this voice on my keyboard. If you go into the settings you will see this voice is set in the ON position of 3band EQ. Turn it to off and the voice plays as it should. Try selecting a different EQ setting or DSP.
Can this be done on the sx900?
I have no idea what is meant re EQ DSP etc
Thanks
 

Offline SeaGtGruff

Re: sx900 silent key on one voice!
« Reply #37 on: August 10, 2020, 05:27:43 PM »
Can this be done on the sx900?
I have no idea what is meant re EQ DSP etc
Thanks

EQ is the Equalizer, which lets you adjust the sound levels for different frequency ranges.

DSP is Digital Sound Processing, which are the various sound-processing functions like Reverb, Chorus, and many other types of effects.

I'm sure the PSR-SX900 has both of those. :)
Michael Rideout
Current keyboards: Yamaha YPT-400, PSR-E433, PSR-E443, PSR-EW400, MX49 BK
Current controllers: M-Audio Axiom 61-II
Previous keyboards: Farfisa Matador 611; Casio CTK-710
 

Offline overover

Re: sx900 silent key on one voice!
« Reply #38 on: August 10, 2020, 05:49:39 PM »
Can this be done on the sx900?
I have no idea what is meant re EQ DSP etc
Thanks

Hi anon125,

you cannot overwrite the original Preset Voice with the edited Voice. You can either save the edited Voice as a "User Voice" (go to "Voice Edit" for this) OR you can memorize it to a Registration. You can also memorize an edited Voice to an OTS, but you finally have to save the STYLE as a "User Style" (because the OTS data is part of the STYLE data).


Best regards,
Chris
« Last Edit: August 10, 2020, 07:20:21 PM by overover »
Everyone always said: This is not possible! - Then someone came and ... just did it!
 

Offline anon125

Re: sx900 silent key on one voice!
« Reply #39 on: August 10, 2020, 06:07:45 PM »
I threw in the towel!
well actually i gently lay 4 layers of thick towel on one speaker.
Still G is lower. So one speaker is not affecting the other.

I have decided not to try and adjust anything in case i mess up something else!
It sure looks like the solution has been found.
So i will wait til i am more experienced.
thanks all
« Last Edit: August 10, 2020, 06:21:20 PM by anon125 »
 

Offline panos

Re: sx900 silent key on one voice!
« Reply #40 on: August 10, 2020, 06:50:55 PM »
I found this video of Casper's with DSP effects on Genos.
Maybe this can help you?
Can you recognize the menu's?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KqBuUkCz7Bk

Older models have different menu so I will not post any video and confuse you.

By the way the more informations about a question will give better answers.

For example some effects radically affect the sound in many many ways.
I thought you had disabled the DSP effects,you had disabled the initial touch button, there were not a second and third voice involved, the keyboard's general EQ is in normal and not on extreme settings etc. and still you have that problem.

Otherwise an hypothetical scenario like this may happen:  :)
-Hello Radio One here.How can I help you sir?
-Your radio signal is getting weaker and weaker as the time passes by.
-Sorry to hear that sir.Is there by any chance that the bad weather in your region is causing the problem? Maybe there is an upcoming storm and too many lightnings?
-How could I know?
-What do you mean sir?
-That tunnel that I am driving in, is way long...


Annon,
don't be afraid to play with the effects of the voices and try to change them.
Nothing bad will happen to the keyboard, nothing bad will happen to the preset voice or the preset style.
When you switch to another voice or style the previous settings of them will come back immediately.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2020, 06:55:33 PM by panos »
 

Offline SeaGtGruff

Re: sx900 silent key on one voice!
« Reply #41 on: August 10, 2020, 07:20:38 PM »
DSP is Digital Sound Processing

I meant to say "Digital Signal Processing"; I thought it looked funny the way I typed it. ;) Of course, in this case the "signal" is an audio signal, so "sound processing" works, too.
Michael Rideout
Current keyboards: Yamaha YPT-400, PSR-E433, PSR-E443, PSR-EW400, MX49 BK
Current controllers: M-Audio Axiom 61-II
Previous keyboards: Farfisa Matador 611; Casio CTK-710