Author Topic: Fantastic News For Genos Users- YAMAHA GENOS Version 24.01KN  (Read 3784 times)

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Offline Des O

Hi Guys,

Just wanted to bring this great news from Kris Nicholson a fantastic professional keyboard player who is bringing his project to us FREE! if Yamaha let him.

His brief from the video-

My Version of the Ultimate Yamaha Genos expansions

I call this ( Genos 24.01KN ) the KN stands for Kris Nicholson

Basically every keyboard that I own I try to make the best of it and to its fullest level and upgrade it so it performs even better than when it came out the box
 
I went through my whole sound library and hand picked every single sound at the same time editing and fine-tuning it to its realist point

Over 2000 more dynamic sampled sound 40,000 more waveforms 200 more Drum kits

Sample sounds from other famous keyboards like Korg, Roland, Casio, Kurzweil, Technics, Emu, Alesis, Vox, Farfisa, General Music

New pianos Steinway, Fazioli, Mason & Hamlin Baldwin, Bosendorfer, Wurlitzer, Samick, Vintage Pianos & seriously Out Of Tune 1920s saloon Lester Upright Including a authentic Schoenhut toy piano and a twangy Cabel Nelson drop action Spinet

New Vinyl DJ dance genre of sounds and vintage synthesizers including a vintage toy keyboard group like Casio Tonebank CT-615 to SA-20 Vintage Yamaha PSS-51/PSR-500  PSS-270, PSR48 PSR-4600 SFX and 8 bit sounds from video games

New choir vocal operatic tenors and vocal phrases

New sound effect kits for realism and characteristics of the real thing

New Drum kits that cater to every genre with dynamics in each key variation

When I went through every single sound I made sure that it caters to all genres of music around the world with dynamic nuances

This AWSOME upgrade takes up all of the use a memory  ram of the Genos  but with all those voices you donít really need another keyboard or workstation for a long while

I am working on newer styles and newer multipads that will shine does workstation to its fullest potential limits


Check it out

https://youtu.be/1KS_xQYefrU

 
 
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Offline EileenL

Re: Fantastic News For Genos Users- YAMAHA GENOS Version 24.01KN
« Reply #1 on: July 27, 2020, 10:30:34 PM »
I watched your video and it is kind that you want to give these voices away but I think you will need to split into separate packs for different sections to make it possible to upload them.

Offline Misu

Re: Fantastic News For Genos Users- YAMAHA GENOS Version 24.01KN
« Reply #2 on: July 28, 2020, 08:27:02 AM »
Hi <Des O>,

Great collection of voices, probably I miss the part with <for free> and probably I don't understand haw works the rules in this world.
If KN made by himself this collection nothing coded nothing locked why he need the approval of Yamaha to to share his work for free like expansion pack?
I simple don't understand <if Yamaha let him> - I need approval to install my packs in Yamaha keyboards and I don't know?

Best regards
Mihai
PSR SX-900; PA 1000
 

Offline EileenL

Re: Fantastic News For Genos Users- YAMAHA GENOS Version 24.01KN
« Reply #3 on: July 28, 2020, 11:58:02 AM »
He has used some Yamaha materiel which he has tweaked a little for his packs so these will be copy write to Yamaha.

Offline Bachus

Re: Fantastic News For Genos Users- YAMAHA GENOS Version 24.01KN
« Reply #4 on: July 28, 2020, 06:12:14 PM »
He has used some Yamaha materiel which he has tweaked a little for his packs so these will be copy write to Yamaha.

Not really, as its not illegal to sample a steinway grand, its not illegal to sample a yamaha keyboard either.

He did not use any copyrighted matterial, he sampled generic sounds, so far no judge has deemed this illegal..


Again, he sampled them, did not copy them..
« Last Edit: July 28, 2020, 06:13:54 PM by Bachus »
Keyszone.boards.net for all the latest keyboard news and information.
 
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Offline Bachus

Re: Fantastic News For Genos Users- YAMAHA GENOS Version 24.01KN
« Reply #5 on: July 28, 2020, 06:15:42 PM »
If you cut them in little packs, they indeed will be very usefull..
its great when people share their labour for free..
Keyszone.boards.net for all the latest keyboard news and information.
 

Offline SciNote

Re: Fantastic News For Genos Users- YAMAHA GENOS Version 24.01KN
« Reply #6 on: July 28, 2020, 07:59:58 PM »
Not really, as its not illegal to sample a steinway grand, its not illegal to sample a yamaha keyboard either.

He did not use any copyrighted matterial, he sampled generic sounds, so far no judge has deemed this illegal..


Again, he sampled them, did not copy them..

This sounds like a very impressive collection, but how could he have personally sampled all of those sounds?  40,000 waveforms?  Even if it only took one minute to sample each one, that is 40,000 minutes -- about 27.8 days without sleeping or eating.  How about all of those vintage keyboards, like the PSR-48 or PSR-500?  Some of those are over 30 years old.  Not to mention all of the non-Yamaha models mentioned.  Does he have access to all of these keyboards, where he could take direct samples?  Not to mention the multiple samples per voice required on many sounds to accommodate the differences in sound when the key is hit harder, as well as the different timbres throughout the range of the keyboard.  And again, it would take years to accomplish.  There must have been access to existing libraries.  I guess it is possible that he has created digital copies of these samples over the years as he has owned various keyboards, but that still seems like an awful lot of work for one person.
Bob
Current: Yamaha PSR-E433, Roland GAIA SH-01, Casio CDP-200R, Casio MT-68 (wired to bass pedals)
Past: Yamaha PSR-520, PSR-510, PSR-500, DX-7, D-80 home organ, and a few Casios
 

Offline Bachus

Re: Fantastic News For Genos Users- YAMAHA GENOS Version 24.01KN
« Reply #7 on: July 28, 2020, 09:30:33 PM »
This sounds like a very impressive collection, but how could he have personally sampled all of those sounds?  40,000 waveforms?  Even if it only took one minute to sample each one, that is 40,000 minutes -- about 27.8 days without sleeping or eating.  How about all of those vintage keyboards, like the PSR-48 or PSR-500?  Some of those are over 30 years old.  Not to mention all of the non-Yamaha models mentioned.  Does he have access to all of these keyboards, where he could take direct samples?  Not to mention the multiple samples per voice required on many sounds to accommodate the differences in sound when the key is hit harder, as well as the different timbres throughout the range of the keyboard.  And again, it would take years to accomplish.  There must have been access to existing libraries.  I guess it is possible that he has created digital copies of these samples over the years as he has owned various keyboards, but that still seems like an awful lot of work for one person.

Yes, he has access to all these keyboards, he has one of the largests keyboard collections in the US, just google Chriss Nickolson..   and where it comes to samplins, there are programs like sample robot that make this process very smooth..  its doestake about a day to sample a whole keyboard, its all automated..

Chriss has been sampling hisinstruments for years now, as long as i follow him on the webs


I donít understand the hostillity towards him, he is a womderfull nice guy..  wanting to share his lifes work..
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Offline danand

Re: Fantastic News For Genos Users- YAMAHA GENOS Version 24.01KN
« Reply #8 on: July 28, 2020, 09:51:37 PM »
Yes, he has access to all these keyboards, he has one of the largests keyboard collections in the US, just google Chriss Nickolson..   and where it comes to samplins, there are programs like sample robot that make this process very smooth..  its doestake about a day to sample a whole keyboard, its all automated..

Chriss has been sampling hisinstruments for years now, as long as i follow him on the webs


I donít understand the hostillity towards him, he is a womderfull nice guy..  wanting to share his lifes work..

I saw the video. He mention countless times that many, many, many of the samples he use are from other people sample libraries.
He sample himself an enormous amount of sounds but half of the material he like to share is material from other companies (and very likely copyrighted material...)
There is no hostility towards no one.
He mention this detail on his presentation more than 10 times.

I don't think that Yamaha will be involved in this due to copyright issues, but if he like to share this material and you like to download it, fine! I have no problem at all!
Possibly no-one from the beholders of the rights on the copyrighted material will search for you, and no-one will ask you to delete this material.

But please bear in mind that if you plan to use this material in order to produce commercial music, then, since today the big companies scan every day the commercial music by AI robots for copyright infringements , it is very possible the holder of the copyright material ask you to provide proofs that you have the right to use the material in question.
So yes, if you're serious with your music production, MAYBE, you can have troubles in the feature if you decide to use the copyrighted part of the material.
 

Re: Fantastic News For Genos Users- YAMAHA GENOS Version 24.01KN
« Reply #9 on: July 28, 2020, 10:48:40 PM »
I agree with Bachus .... I believe that unique sounds, for a single note, are not owned by any manufacturer. In the kontakt there are numerous samples of this type and I am not aware of any process involving these attitudes. Congratulations on wanting to share this fantastic amount of sounds with others. Congratulations, and I believe there will be no financial return from this. Congratulations....

Offline EileenL

Re: Fantastic News For Genos Users- YAMAHA GENOS Version 24.01KN
« Reply #10 on: July 28, 2020, 11:00:25 PM »
I was not aware that anyone had accused anyone of piracy anywhere  on this thread so why has it been planted in peoples minds.
 A member asked why Chris  had mentioned asking permission from Yamaha and I suggested a reason why he may have said this.

Offline Bachus

Re: Fantastic News For Genos Users- YAMAHA GENOS Version 24.01KN
« Reply #11 on: July 29, 2020, 07:42:01 AM »
I was not aware that anyone had accused anyone of piracy anywhere  on this thread so why has it been planted in peoples minds.
 A member asked why Chris  had mentioned asking permission from Yamaha and I suggested a reason why he may have said this.

This is his answer

https://youtu.be/EpXk7NrnALw

Keyszone.boards.net for all the latest keyboard news and information.
 

Offline filoaman

Re: Fantastic News For Genos Users- YAMAHA GENOS Version 24.01KN
« Reply #12 on: July 29, 2020, 09:01:42 AM »
However, accusing Chris of piracy because he sampled some sounds he wants to share
Can be considered as quite rude...

Until this point no-one in this thread accused someone for anything.
The only I read is a few members asking if is possible for a single person to do all this work alone and another member mention that the person in question (Chris) mention in his video that he use "samples from other libraries". I can personally confirm this since I also hear the person in question on his presentation video mention many times that he use material from other sources other than his own samples.
So please beware your language and don't mis-quote other members.

so please donít try to tutor me...

Please read first the copyright laws and then get a professional advice from an experienced lawyer on copyright issues, before express this misleading opinion you have.
In the video I saw, there is a huge copyright infringement issue.
Maybe you plan to use this material only for personal use and this is not a big problem.
Other members maybe plan to this this material for commercial proposes. 
So please don't misleading other members with your strict opinion about issues you don't know all the aspects.

If someone is to blame for people using samples in the Genos..
Its Yamaha, as they offer the sample ram..

This is a completely misleading opinion!
The companies offering the ability to do samples, but not for sampling copyright material !
They offer you the ability to do LEGAL samples, under the international laws!
Don't force you or anyone other to broke the law because they offer you the ability to make samples!
Is like blaming companies making knives, that someone use the knives they made in order to kill some one!
Please!  Think before you express this type of erroneous opinions.


But the minute Yamaha sells a grand piano, people can do with it what they want
And there is no differnece between the sound of a grand piano and the sound of a synthesizer..

Why do you think Yamaha hasnít sued Korg for having Yamaha grandpiano samples in the kronos?
And why do you think Fazzioli doesnít sue Nord for the sampkes they use?
And why are there MOOG samples in the Genos and the Montage?

This is only the one part of the equation.
Anyone can make samples of ACOUSTIC instruments (like Pianos, Flutes, Guitars etc.) without any restriction.
So all the samples the person in question make by him self from acoustic instruments are perfectly legal! No question about this!
You can also make samples of ANALOG synths (like Moog, Juno even DX-7). This is because analog synths use as sound source raw oscillators.
IN any case the "presets" of late analog synths (like Jupiter, JX3P) are copyrighted (Roland already sued many small companies in the past and won). You can't sample exactly the same sound. But if you just  change a few parameters and modify the sound (lets say modify the LFO of the sound or the PWM value) you create a new sound and you have the right to sample this sound for commercial proposes.

That's why Kronos has samples from Yamaha acoustic pianos, that's why every modern synth has a "DX7 El.Piano" style sound. Because this is legal. This are samples from Acoustic instruments or Analog synths.

On the other hand though....
If E-Mu invest time and money in order to sample an acoustic piano and then YOU take the same samples and distribute them again in any form (for money or for free) you  broke the copyrights law!!! It is that simple !!!!
It is a different story using YOUR samples and a completely different story using the samples of E-MU. It is illegal to use this samples of E-MU. This is the law.

The person in question (Cris) mention many times on the presentation video that he use (probably without permission - if he has permission covering this distribution is another issues) samples from E-MU and material (beat loops) from other copyrighted sample libraries.

So please stop misleading the members of this forum.

It's is a different question if YOU or any other member wants to download and use this material taking the appropriate risk, and another totally different story to mislead the members of this forum with erroneous declarations.

If Cris is a friend of you, please ask him to get IMMEDIATELY, legal advice from a specialized lawyer in copyright laws. The video he  has public on YT is a crime evidence and the holders of the copyrights of the material in question can use this evidence in the court.
So if you know this person advice him to take down the video from public view!
 
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Offline filoaman

Re: Fantastic News For Genos Users- YAMAHA GENOS Version 24.01KN
« Reply #13 on: July 29, 2020, 10:03:50 AM »
Read the laws and then Realx....
But first read the laws....
 

Offline Dromeus

Re: Fantastic News For Genos Users- YAMAHA GENOS Version 24.01KN
« Reply #14 on: July 29, 2020, 10:25:40 AM »
The legal aspects of sampling are complicated. And so is jurisdiction in general. I'm not a lawyer, just been following discussions on that subject for years. I think, filoamen did raise some important points. It matches statements from people who professionally sample and produce sounds for a living. Those people have a particular interest not to infringe copyright laws, which is not a minor breach of law and may cost you a lot of money if the case is taken to the court.

Many years ago I came across a site that offered some Vox Continental samples for free download, which the creator had sampled from his own instrument. I downloaded the samples and created a T3 voice which IMHO was quite cool. So I contacted the owner to grant permission to use his samples for a Tyros voice and offer it as a free download. He was kind enough to allow me doing this. I included in the download a note about the owner of the samples, how to contact him and a statement that the samples were used by permission. I think this procedure was legally correct.
Regards, Michael
 

Offline ugawoga

Re: Fantastic News For Genos Users- YAMAHA GENOS Version 24.01KN
« Reply #15 on: July 29, 2020, 12:14:08 PM »
HI
I can understand if a sound is unique like copying a voice or a passage from a song to be copyrighted.
Who is going to know if you sampled a Jupiter keyboard for example from various companies unless their are codes inside them.
I am with Pino .RELAX !!
With all that goes on in this world, i do not think that John Doe is on top of the hit list.
To me their is a lot of music out there that is pinched from others gone unoticed
For example i came accross Tony Joe white's  song Lake Placid .
A passage in that was an extract  plagiarized to  make a Cadbury's Chocolate advert    The line -- "The crumbliest, flakiest, chocolate tastes like chocolate never tasted before'.
You can clearly hear it in the break.
There is loads of it going on.
Life is too short to worry about it!!
 By the way I like Lindt chocolate best of all :) :P


Off me soapybox now!!!
« Last Edit: July 29, 2020, 12:17:18 PM by ugawoga »
 

Offline Pino

Re: Fantastic News For Genos Users- YAMAHA GENOS Version 24.01KN
« Reply #16 on: July 29, 2020, 02:03:13 PM »
Iíve sampled 20 of the best voices from my other keyboards
Now I am playing the voices on my SX,
What does that make me, a criminal.👹

Do you think someone from my audience at one of my gigs will recognise some of the voices and phone the police. 🚓

Does YAMAHA sample all their samples or do they "beg, steal and borrow"
 
Iím only asking, how does it work?

Pino
SX900 - Ketron SD40 - Maui 5s
 

Offline DerekA

Re: Fantastic News For Genos Users- YAMAHA GENOS Version 24.01KN
« Reply #17 on: July 29, 2020, 02:38:37 PM »
Do you think someone from my audience at one of my gigs will recognise some of the voices and phone the police. 🚓

I think if I started singing, they would *definately* phone the police :)

Offline Bachus

Re: Fantastic News For Genos Users- YAMAHA GENOS Version 24.01KN
« Reply #18 on: July 29, 2020, 02:39:05 PM »
Iíve sampled 20 of the best voices from my other keyboards
Now I am playing the voices on my SX,
What does that make me, a criminal.👹

Do you think someone from my audience at one of my gigs will recognise some of the voices and phone the police. 🚓

Does YAMAHA sample all their samples or do they "beg, steal and borrow"
 
Iím only asking, how does it work?

Pino

You are right Pino..
Jsut do as you see fit, and none will take notice..

Some people are a little over reacting..
So its better not to react to them..
Should have seen this yesterday..
But then the harm was allready done..
Keyszone.boards.net for all the latest keyboard news and information.
 

Offline Bachus

Re: Fantastic News For Genos Users- YAMAHA GENOS Version 24.01KN
« Reply #19 on: July 29, 2020, 02:41:02 PM »
This is his answer

https://youtu.be/EpXk7NrnALw

So anyone check out this video?
His collection of keyboards is incredible..
Keyszone.boards.net for all the latest keyboard news and information.
 
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Offline ugawoga

Re: Fantastic News For Genos Users- YAMAHA GENOS Version 24.01KN
« Reply #20 on: July 29, 2020, 03:11:19 PM »
Iíve sampled 20 of the best voices from my other keyboards
Now I am playing the voices on my SX,
What does that make me, a criminal.👹

Do you think someone from my audience at one of my gigs will recognise some of the voices and phone the police. 🚓

Does YAMAHA sample all their samples or do they "beg, steal and borrow"
 
Iím only asking, how does it work?

Pino

You cannot be a criminal Pino
I thought Greek Gods were exempt!!! ;D 8)


All the best

 
« Last Edit: July 29, 2020, 03:18:39 PM by ugawoga »
 

Offline Des O

Re: Fantastic News For Genos Users- YAMAHA GENOS Version 24.01KN
« Reply #21 on: July 29, 2020, 03:22:20 PM »
This sounds like a very impressive collection, but how could he have personally sampled all of those sounds?  40,000 waveforms?  Even if it only took one minute to sample each one, that is 40,000 minutes -- about 27.8 days without sleeping or eating.  How about all of those vintage keyboards, like the PSR-48 or PSR-500?  Some of those are over 30 years old.  Not to mention all of the non-Yamaha models mentioned.  Does he have access to all of these keyboards, where he could take direct samples?  Not to mention the multiple samples per voice required on many sounds to accommodate the differences in sound when the key is hit harder, as well as the different timbres throughout the range of the keyboard.  And again, it would take years to accomplish.  There must have been access to existing libraries.  I guess it is possible that he has created digital copies of these samples over the years as he has owned various keyboards, but that still seems like an awful lot of work for one person.
Kris is a professional keyboard player since he was a kid, over the years he has sampled all the different keyboards he has, and still has. He a has posted another video today explaining how he does it and shows off his collection of keyboard retro some of them. A very clever bloke and kind if he is giving his work to everybody free.
 

Offline Des O

Re: Fantastic News For Genos Users- YAMAHA GENOS Version 24.01KN
« Reply #22 on: July 29, 2020, 03:27:59 PM »
I was not aware that anyone had accused anyone of piracy anywhere  on this thread so why has it been planted in peoples minds.
 A member asked why Chris  had mentioned asking permission from Yamaha and I suggested a reason why he may have said this.
I think Kris mentioned this himself at the start as he did not want Yamaha accusing him of anything out of order. If Yamaha are not doing it for the users then why not, all the keyboard samples are out there and generically available, now all on one keyboard, Yamaha missed a trick!
 

Offline Des O

Re: Fantastic News For Genos Users- YAMAHA GENOS Version 24.01KN
« Reply #23 on: July 29, 2020, 03:33:14 PM »
Until this point no-one in this thread accused someone for anything.
The only I read is a few members asking if is possible for a single person to do all this work alone and another member mention that the person in question (Chris) mention in his video that he use "samples from other libraries". I can personally confirm this since I also hear the person in question on his presentation video mention many times that he use material from other sources other than his own samples.
So please beware your language and don't mis-quote other members.

Please read first the copyright laws and then get a professional advice from an experienced lawyer on copyright issues, before express this misleading opinion you have.
In the video I saw, there is a huge copyright infringement issue.
Maybe you plan to use this material only for personal use and this is not a big problem.
Other members maybe plan to this this material for commercial proposes. 
So please don't misleading other members with your strict opinion about issues you don't know all the aspects.

This is a completely misleading opinion!
The companies offering the ability to do samples, but not for sampling copyright material !
They offer you the ability to do LEGAL samples, under the international laws!
Don't force you or anyone other to broke the law because they offer you the ability to make samples!
Is like blaming companies making knives, that someone use the knives they made in order to kill some one!
Please!  Think before you express this type of erroneous opinions.


This is only the one part of the equation.
Anyone can make samples of ACOUSTIC instruments (like Pianos, Flutes, Guitars etc.) without any restriction.
So all the samples the person in question make by him self from acoustic instruments are perfectly legal! No question about this!
You can also make samples of ANALOG synths (like Moog, Juno even DX-7). This is because analog synths use as sound source raw oscillators.
IN any case the "presets" of late analog synths (like Jupiter, JX3P) are copyrighted (Roland already sued many small companies in the past and won). You can't sample exactly the same sound. But if you just  change a few parameters and modify the sound (lets say modify the LFO of the sound or the PWM value) you create a new sound and you have the right to sample this sound for commercial proposes.

That's why Kronos has samples from Yamaha acoustic pianos, that's why every modern synth has a "DX7 El.Piano" style sound. Because this is legal. This are samples from Acoustic instruments or Analog synths.

On the other hand though....
If E-Mu invest time and money in order to sample an acoustic piano and then YOU take the same samples and distribute them again in any form (for money or for free) you  broke the copyrights law!!! It is that simple !!!!
It is a different story using YOUR samples and a completely different story using the samples of E-MU. It is illegal to use this samples of E-MU. This is the law.

The person in question (Cris) mention many times on the presentation video that he use (probably without permission - if he has permission covering this distribution is another issues) samples from E-MU and material (beat loops) from other copyrighted sample libraries.

So please stop misleading the members of this forum.

It's is a different question if YOU or any other member wants to download and use this material taking the appropriate risk, and another totally different story to mislead the members of this forum with erroneous declarations.

If Cris is a friend of you, please ask him to get IMMEDIATELY, legal advice from a specialized lawyer in copyright laws. The video he  has public on YT is a crime evidence and the holders of the copyrights of the material in question can use this evidence in the court.
So if you know this person advice him to take down the video from public view!
I don't think hes breaking any laws on copyright IMO, in that context any artist playing a keyboard in public is, Elton John for instance playing piano, so do you think he owes royalties to the keyboard manufacturer? I for one am grateful he is doing this.
 

Offline EileenL

Re: Fantastic News For Genos Users- YAMAHA GENOS Version 24.01KN
« Reply #24 on: July 29, 2020, 03:41:19 PM »
Thanks for the link Bachus,
  He certainly has a great collection of keyboards. It is not as if he is trying to sell his samples and steal some one else's Bread and Butter. What on earth is all this hostility about. Where are the moderators of this site.
 
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Offline Pino

Re: Fantastic News For Genos Users- YAMAHA GENOS Version 24.01KN
« Reply #25 on: July 29, 2020, 04:03:09 PM »
In the next 10 years this forum will look so different
It will be more about samples and swapping samples
Everything is changing and the next Genos will have sampling on board
If your into iPad apps then you will know whatís going on.

Pino
SX900 - Ketron SD40 - Maui 5s
 

Offline Joe H

Re: Fantastic News For Genos Users- YAMAHA GENOS Version 24.01KN
« Reply #26 on: July 29, 2020, 04:05:33 PM »
There are many companies that have sampled vintage keyboards and sell the samples as WAV or SF2.  Does anyone know if they pay royalties?

Joe H
Music is the Universal Language!

My Article: Using Multi Pads in registrations. Download Regs, Styles & MPs:  http://psrtutorial.com/music/articles/dancemusic.html
 

Offline EileenL

Re: Fantastic News For Genos Users- YAMAHA GENOS Version 24.01KN
« Reply #27 on: July 29, 2020, 04:07:52 PM »
I still think there will be people out there that want to keep up there skills of just playing music for the love of it and the great feeling it gives you.

Offline filoaman

Re: Fantastic News For Genos Users- YAMAHA GENOS Version 24.01KN
« Reply #28 on: July 29, 2020, 04:15:43 PM »
I don't think hes breaking any laws on copyright IMO, in that context any artist playing a keyboard in public is, Elton John for instance playing piano, so do you think he owes royalties to the keyboard manufacturer? I for one am grateful he is doing this.

Please read again carefully what I wrote.
I don't mention nothing about "public performance"
I also mention that acoustic instruments (like piano) and analog synths are copyright free. 
I don't mention that anyone owns royalties for playing a specific in instrument.

You don't read and only criticize.

In the collection  in question there are HUGE issues with copyright infringement.
This is international law. This is not what i believe or you believe.
If you want to use this material is under your own risk, I have no problem.
Is the same when you pass a red light on the street.
If a policemen see you he will issue a fine, if not, no problem
Exactly the same here. You can use this material forever even for commercial proposes and maybe no-one will take notice about this. And maybe you release a tune on Spotify using the copyrighted material (I repeat NOT ALL THE MATERIAL from Cris collection is copyrighted) and maybe you receive a notice from the local court for copyright infringement.

Do it at your own risk.

The issue I have with a few members here is, that they don't understand how serious is this.
They just laugh and try to low the importance of this issue to a ridiculous level.

But please bear in mind that what anyone write in public stay in public and maybe another member can form the opinion that copyright it is not important and he/she can copy anything.
This is quite dangerous.

If you don't know about the laws, don't make strong decelerations and don't provide misleading advice.

Laws on a society are in order to live all together in balance.
If you don't like a law, depending on the part of the world you live, you can  use the powers you have (vote, demonstrations, participation on unions  etc.) trying to change the law.
Braking the law is not the solution. Is bad for the society and soon or later someone will brake another law and maybe in this case you will be the victim. This game is dangerous.

Furthermore the most dangerous of all is providing misleading advises to other members which maybe brake the law in the future following you erroneous advice.

Offline terryB

Re: Fantastic News For Genos Users- YAMAHA GENOS Version 24.01KN
« Reply #29 on: July 29, 2020, 04:19:30 PM »
In the next 10 years this forum will look so different
It will be more about samples and swapping samples
Everything is changing and the next Genos will have sampling on board
If your into iPad apps then you will know whatís going on.

Pino

Hi Pino the Tyros 2, if I remember correctly, had an entry level sampler which did not appear on subsequent models

Cheers Terry
 

Offline filoaman

Re: Fantastic News For Genos Users- YAMAHA GENOS Version 24.01KN
« Reply #30 on: July 29, 2020, 04:26:34 PM »
There are many companies that have sampled vintage keyboards and sell the samples as WAV or SF2.  Does anyone know if they pay royalties?

Joe H

Record of a Rhodes piano (vintage keyboard) or a Hammond (vintage keyboard)
has NO COPYRIGHT !!!!!!!

I try to explain this to members but they don't want to understand.

But if you use the samples E-MU or Yamaha, or Korg make of an old Rhodes or VOX then YOU BROKE THE LAW.
It is different to make your OWN samples of the original Rhodes or Hammond and a completely different story if you make samples from Korg Kronos, or Yamaha Montage.

In the first case you own the material and you have the copyright of the samples, in the second case you just broke the copyright law!
It is very simple (for anyone who want to understand - unfortunately this forum is full of people who already know anything about everything so no reason to repeat basic things...)

And I repeat once again:
It is copyright infringement if you make samples (form copyright material, not form acoustic instruments) if you distribute the material to others for a price or even for free.

It is NOT a copyright infringement, if you make samples for your personal use (even using this material live for your gigs, although form a copyright infringement, I don't think that will generate any problems).
But if you distribute, this samples, YES you brake the law.
 

Offline Pino

Re: Fantastic News For Genos Users- YAMAHA GENOS Version 24.01KN
« Reply #31 on: July 29, 2020, 04:42:08 PM »
Eileen
I hope that you are right, if you look at the Bartman demos and all the arranger demos mostly older men with grey hair.
So something has to change somewhere.

I did play midi with a female vocalist for over 20 years and now back to playing style on the arranger but I am up against stiff competition, your normal listener in a restaurant or on a gig couldnít care a frig if you pay style or SMF or Audio, all they want is wine and good music.
So, Iíve just ordered a Roland Fantom.

none of my arranger playing friends play any organ music on any gigs cos itís so dated,
times are a changing  -  all the time.

Pino
SX900 - Ketron SD40 - Maui 5s
 

Offline filoaman

Re: Fantastic News For Genos Users- YAMAHA GENOS Version 24.01KN
« Reply #32 on: July 29, 2020, 04:42:53 PM »
You to...

I notιce that when you don't have any serious argument you try to downgrade the conversation and convert it to something ridiculous.

If you have any serious argument, I'm here to listen.
 

Offline Des O

Re: Fantastic News For Genos Users- YAMAHA GENOS Version 24.01KN
« Reply #33 on: July 29, 2020, 04:55:32 PM »
Please read again carefully what I wrote.
I don't mention nothing about "public performance"
I also mention that acoustic instruments (like piano) and analog synths are copyright free. 
I don't mention that anyone owns royalties for playing a specific in instrument.

You don't read and only criticize.

In the collection  in question there are HUGE issues with copyright infringement.
This is international law. This is not what i believe or you believe.
If you want to use this material is under your own risk, I have no problem.
Is the same when you pass a red light on the street.
If a policemen see you he will issue a fine, if not, no problem
Exactly the same here. You can use this material forever even for commercial proposes and maybe no-one will take notice about this. And maybe you release a tune on Spotify using the copyrighted material (I repeat NOT ALL THE MATERIAL from Cris collection is copyrighted) and maybe you receive a notice from the local court for copyright infringement.

Do it at your own risk.

The issue I have with a few members here is, that they don't understand how serious is this.
They just laugh and try to low the importance of this issue to a ridiculous level.

But please bear in mind that what anyone write in public stay in public and maybe another member can form the opinion that copyright it is not important and he/she can copy anything.
This is quite dangerous.

If you don't know about the laws, don't make strong decelerations and don't provide misleading advice.

Laws on a society are in order to live all together in balance.
If you don't like a law, depending on the part of the world you live, you can  use the powers you have (vote, demonstrations, participation on unions  etc.) trying to change the law.
Braking the law is not the solution. Is bad for the society and soon or later someone will brake another law and maybe in this case you will be the victim. This game is dangerous.

Furthermore the most dangerous of all is providing misleading advises to other members which maybe brake the law in the future following you erroneous advice.
Did you not see my quote; "I don't think hes breaking any laws on copyright IMO" on the post? I though this forum was to give opinions and advice rather than point fingers. Lighten up, I have not seen anyone or heard of anyone being prosecuted for sampling sound (other than songs without permission of the copyright holder) out there in the public domain, including keyboard samples. If it did it opens up a whole new can of worms. I dont know why I even bothered to post this news, i thought I was just being thoughtful.
« Last Edit: July 29, 2020, 05:03:01 PM by Des O »
 

Offline filoaman

Re: Fantastic News For Genos Users- YAMAHA GENOS Version 24.01KN
« Reply #34 on: July 29, 2020, 05:27:38 PM »
This is a small part, from Roland's web site. Just a small fraction of the whole copyright statement

"Many types of copyrighted content, such as Rolandís proprietary musical tunes, sound sources, and performance data created by our engineers are installed in our products. Roland has also implemented a strong copyright protection program for its associated marketing material, technical information, images, sounds, and other features, in addition to our copyrighted product content.
For example, Roland engineers work tirelessly to reproduce the best acoustic instrumental sounds and store them digitally in our products for customer use. These are all protected from unauthorized copying, distribution and sale under various copyright statutes."

If you still believe that this is a game and every one can do whatever wants, go ahead at your own risk.....
 

Offline Pino

Re: Fantastic News For Genos Users- YAMAHA GENOS Version 24.01KN
« Reply #35 on: July 29, 2020, 05:35:38 PM »
I for one will play any copyright style or Voice or any sample
I think we paid enough for our keyboards to be our own masters here.
If itís up there and it will improve your performance
Go for it.

Pino
SX900 - Ketron SD40 - Maui 5s
 

Offline Al Ram

Re: Fantastic News For Genos Users- YAMAHA GENOS Version 24.01KN
« Reply #36 on: July 29, 2020, 07:31:46 PM »
Not sure how this thread went from someone sharing samples to a copyright discussion.

I think that there is no reason to try to convince people either way.   Once a person expressed her/his  point of view . . . great . . . now let people decide what they want to do . . . .

Either way . . . if they want to follow up the copyright advise great . . . if they do not . . . great too . . . . . that's their own decision. . . . .

Let's move forward.

Thanks
AL
San Diego/Tijuana
 

Offline EileenL

Re: Fantastic News For Genos Users- YAMAHA GENOS Version 24.01KN
« Reply #37 on: July 29, 2020, 10:27:16 PM »
Yes Pino times are changing and so are keyboards. They are sounding more and more realistic and do a fine job of entertaining. Of course this will always depend on the talent of the player also.

Offline SciNote

Re: Fantastic News For Genos Users- YAMAHA GENOS Version 24.01KN
« Reply #38 on: July 30, 2020, 12:09:31 AM »
I realize that this thread has taken a turn, but I always find copyright discussions interesting, because if you're going to be distributing patches, sounds, or full musical compositions in any way, then it is always good to have an idea of what the law is.  Please note that I am not accusing anyone of copyright infringement, but just commenting on what I've seen about copyright law and what has been discussed in this thread so far.  Of course, my disclaimer applies in that I am not a lawyer, so always check on the laws yourself before taking any action.

I'm in the US, and when I went on the government's copyright website to copyright some of my own songs, one of the guidelines it essentially said is that the subject itself is not copyrightable.  I'm not quoting verbatim, but it went something like, if you happen to see Elvis and take a picture of Elvis, then that photo of yours can be copyrighted.  But the subject, which in this case is Elvis, does not have a copyright, so that someone else in the area can also take their own picture of Elvis with their own camera, and they do not have to pay any royalties to you to use their own photo.

Now, where it gets interesting is what we're talking about here... taking a sample (like an audio image) of a digital sound creation that someone else has taken the time to put together, and I can see where taking and distributing that sample would be copyright infringement, if you don't get permission from the person or company that created the original sound creation.  I would say that the photographic equivalent of this, going back to our Elvis scenario, would be that if you took a photo of Elvis and got copyright protection on that photo, and then someone else then used their camera to take a photo OF YOUR PHOTO, and then distributed the resulting photo (theoretically a copy of the photo you took) without your permission.  Again, I'm not a lawyer, but that does sound like copyright infringement.

Of course, what we're talking about here is actually taking those sampled sounds and distributing them to other people for them to use in their instruments.  Now, if you just use those sampled sounds on your own instrument in a performance, I don't know if that would be copyright infringement or not.  Of course, when you buy a keyboard and it has various sounds programmed into it, I believe the manufacturer, such as Yamaha, would expect you to use those sounds in a performance, and perhaps grants you a license for that, though that is just a guess on my part about how it works.  But when using sounds that were copied to your instrument digitally without the consent of the person or company who holds the copyright to those sounds, it could be different.

One other thing -- the DX-7 is actually a digital synthesizer, not analog.  However, it does produce its sounds through a process of setting various parameters to zero in on a desired sound, as opposed to using a sampled waveform, so in that regard, it is similar to an old-school analog synthesizer in sound creation.  But then again, since the parameters are a specific set of numerical values, as opposed to just approximate positions of potentiometers, and those sets of parameters can be stored digitally, I bet those DX-7 patches could, indeed, be copyrighted.

Again, interesting discussion, and as long as we don't get too heated and accusatory, this could be good information to know.
Bob
Current: Yamaha PSR-E433, Roland GAIA SH-01, Casio CDP-200R, Casio MT-68 (wired to bass pedals)
Past: Yamaha PSR-520, PSR-510, PSR-500, DX-7, D-80 home organ, and a few Casios
 
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Offline DerekA

Re: Fantastic News For Genos Users- YAMAHA GENOS Version 24.01KN
« Reply #39 on: July 30, 2020, 09:19:04 AM »

I would say that the photographic equivalent of this, going back to our Elvis scenario, would be that if you took a photo of Elvis and got copyright protection on that photo, and then someone else then used their camera to take a photo OF YOUR PHOTO, and then distributed the resulting photo (theoretically a copy of the photo you took) without your permission.  Again, I'm not a lawyer, but that does sound like copyright infringement.
.

I think this is the clearest explanation of this issue I've seen so far - thanks
Genos
 

Offline Bachus

Re: Fantastic News For Genos Users- YAMAHA GENOS Version 24.01KN
« Reply #40 on: July 30, 2020, 08:30:13 PM »
I think this is the clearest explanation of this issue I've seen so far - thanks

But then they are not making pictures of that foto..
They are making the same picture os someone that looks like Elvis a lot, but is not ELVIS..
They are not even taking pictures of it, they are painting, which is a Creative process, which does not really copy anything but makes an artist representation of a picture that looks like the original picture.. 
Sampling is not a straightforward process... you need to set loop points and such and edit the samples to your liking.
Keyszone.boards.net for all the latest keyboard news and information.
 

Offline Del B

Re: Fantastic News For Genos Users- YAMAHA GENOS Version 24.01KN
« Reply #41 on: July 30, 2020, 11:00:52 PM »
Legal or illegal it would be interesting to see how many people would down load these samples if they were on offer for free in this forum, and I bet the download rate would be high

« Last Edit: July 30, 2020, 11:05:55 PM by Del B »
 
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computec1349

  • Guest
Re: Fantastic News For Genos Users- YAMAHA GENOS Version 24.01KN
« Reply #42 on: July 30, 2020, 11:06:54 PM »
Exactly the same thing happened with the GHENOS pack, until they realized it was legal and stopped bothering.

Best Regards.
 
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Offline Bachus

Re: Fantastic News For Genos Users- YAMAHA GENOS Version 24.01KN
« Reply #43 on: July 31, 2020, 06:27:21 PM »
Legal or illegal it would be interesting to see how many people would down load these samples if they were on offer for free in this forum, and I bet the download rate would be high

I would download them, mostly interested in the piano sellection he has.
Keyszone.boards.net for all the latest keyboard news and information.
 

Offline markstyles

Re: Fantastic News For Genos Users- YAMAHA GENOS Version 24.01KN
« Reply #44 on: August 04, 2020, 04:42:12 PM »
Yamaha plainly says, you may not repackage these samples and sell them.. But since he isn't selling them..  That is an important difference. 

The main issue is,  some kbd maker is not going to spend $50K to sue your retired Uncle Ned who lives in Scotland and only has $6,000 to his name.. It won't be worth it. 

Offline ugawoga

Re: Fantastic News For Genos Users- YAMAHA GENOS Version 24.01KN
« Reply #45 on: August 04, 2020, 05:46:31 PM »
Hi
Yeah, Uncle Ned is over 75 and is losing is TV licence!! :P
Let's hope he keeps his heating allowance because it is cold up there in Scotland ::)
« Last Edit: August 04, 2020, 05:48:37 PM by ugawoga »
 

Offline DerekA

Re: Fantastic News For Genos Users- YAMAHA GENOS Version 24.01KN
« Reply #46 on: August 05, 2020, 09:10:09 PM »
We had about 21 degrees in Edinburgh today, which they be honest is about as much as I can take! 😎
Genos
 

Offline zionip

Re: Fantastic News For Genos Users- YAMAHA GENOS Version 24.01KN
« Reply #47 on: August 06, 2020, 02:44:29 PM »
Kris Nicholson decided not to share his expansion pack unless Yamaha tells him it is OK for him to share:
https://www.facebook.com/kris.nicholson.92

Hi everybody
Sorry to say I decided NOT!!! to release my sound expansion Yamaha Genos 24.01KN
Not only I took the time to do this expansion pack and still correcting lots of the sounds to make them perfect , but also I took the time to read each and every single comments on the web and even my private messaging from sites blasting me for stealing sounds from my own keyboard collection and being a fraud which Iím not.
I am a professional Pianist and synthesist I owned several of my keyboards throughout the years and sampled many of them to combine in one keyboard which I did also with my Roland Fantom X8, Korg Kronos & Korg PA Series now Genos
I am always sampling things almost every day or every chance that I can get I also tell people if you were to walk into my house or enter into my studio you are being recorded because I do sample even Atmospheric, Piano Riffs, Bands, or hook lines even in our conversations Believe me I have plenty wave data
I do have to admit that Some of the sounds BUT NOT ALL !!! were Soundfonts that I took and edit to the max to have the most realistic and I sent to sound true to either the instrument or the mood
What I thought was going to be cool and nice that I can share with people my sounds and samples of most of my keyboard collection but turned out to me to be nothing lots of hateful comments from people and I donít want anybody to blame me for copyright law or any beef with keyboard companies wich Iím great friends with Yamaha, Casio, Korg, Roland, Emu, Technics, Steinway, Samick and all the company I know.
So sorry to say there will be no release date for this expansion bundle if unless I have absolute permission from Yamaha saying that I will not be blamed or sued for any copyright laws or wrongdoing for taking samples off of my own keyboard collection that I owned for years
For now I decided Iím just iím going to keep the samples for myself if I hear from Yamaha seeing yes I can release the free expansion pack or if they would like to collaborate and help me with it then yes I will apply by there rules
Thank you everybody who has supported me with this wild adventure and please understand that once I do projects like these I like to give my talent from the kindness of my heart just to make people happy of whatever I can provide them but if Iím gonna be chastise and put in a spotlight for things that I am not then I take my talent back
I WILL KEEP MY LIBRARY FOR MYSELF!!!!!!
Love you all keep safe
Kris Nicholson 
« Last Edit: August 06, 2020, 02:47:34 PM by zionip »
 

Offline EileenL

Re: Fantastic News For Genos Users- YAMAHA GENOS Version 24.01KN
« Reply #48 on: August 06, 2020, 03:32:57 PM »
I am sorry that Kris went though all this nastiness he received on this forum for trying to be kind and trying to do the right thing by seeking permission from people before he went ahead.
The moderators were totally wrong to allow this attack to go on. Not even sure if we have any active ones any more anyway.
In these days of stress it is about time we became kinder to everyone.
 
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Offline Des O

Re: Fantastic News For Genos Users- YAMAHA GENOS Version 24.01KN
« Reply #49 on: August 06, 2020, 04:21:26 PM »
Kris Nicholson decided not to share his expansion pack unless Yamaha tells him it is OK for him to share:
https://www.facebook.com/kris.nicholson.92

Hi everybody
Sorry to say I decided NOT!!! to release my sound expansion Yamaha Genos 24.01KN
Not only I took the time to do this expansion pack and still correcting lots of the sounds to make them perfect , but also I took the time to read each and every single comments on the web and even my private messaging from sites blasting me for stealing sounds from my own keyboard collection and being a fraud which Iím not.
I am a professional Pianist and synthesist I owned several of my keyboards throughout the years and sampled many of them to combine in one keyboard which I did also with my Roland Fantom X8, Korg Kronos & Korg PA Series now Genos
I am always sampling things almost every day or every chance that I can get I also tell people if you were to walk into my house or enter into my studio you are being recorded because I do sample even Atmospheric, Piano Riffs, Bands, or hook lines even in our conversations Believe me I have plenty wave data
I do have to admit that Some of the sounds BUT NOT ALL !!! were Soundfonts that I took and edit to the max to have the most realistic and I sent to sound true to either the instrument or the mood
What I thought was going to be cool and nice that I can share with people my sounds and samples of most of my keyboard collection but turned out to me to be nothing lots of hateful comments from people and I donít want anybody to blame me for copyright law or any beef with keyboard companies wich Iím great friends with Yamaha, Casio, Korg, Roland, Emu, Technics, Steinway, Samick and all the company I know.
So sorry to say there will be no release date for this expansion bundle if unless I have absolute permission from Yamaha saying that I will not be blamed or sued for any copyright laws or wrongdoing for taking samples off of my own keyboard collection that I owned for years
For now I decided Iím just iím going to keep the samples for myself if I hear from Yamaha seeing yes I can release the free expansion pack or if they would like to collaborate and help me with it then yes I will apply by there rules
Thank you everybody who has supported me with this wild adventure and please understand that once I do projects like these I like to give my talent from the kindness of my heart just to make people happy of whatever I can provide them but if Iím gonna be chastise and put in a spotlight for things that I am not then I take my talent back
I WILL KEEP MY LIBRARY FOR MYSELF!!!!!!
Love you all keep safe
Kris Nicholson 
Its a shame this has happened. but IMO


Yamaha's Proprietary Rights Notice

Owners of Yamaha musical instruments may use Yamahaís preprogrammed sounds (STYLES, VOICES, PERFORMANCES, PATTERNS, ARPEGGIOS, SAMPLE DATA or YAMAHA STYLE DISKS hereinafter collectively referred to as ďProgrammed SoundsĒ) for their personal musical pleasure. Examples of permissible use include composing musical pieces using such Programmed Sounds and incorporating them in public performances or in recordings, regardless of whether such compositions, performances or recordings are for profit.

THE FOLLOWING EXAMPLES ILLUSTRATE SOME, BUT NOT ALL, PROHIBITED USES WHICH INFRINGE YAMAHA'S INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY RIGHTS WITH RESPECT TO ITS PROGRAMMED SOUNDS, AND ARE THEREFORE STRICTLY PROHIBITED:

    Making copies of Yamaha's Programmed Sounds and making them commercially available or sharing them over the Internet with third parties.
    Copying pattern data and selling the same as a musical score (paper or digital format) or incorporated in a musical score software program.
    Incorporating any DEMO music in your musical composition, or playing any DEMO music in public performances or recordings.
    Making copies of VOICES incorporated into a sound source of a Yamaha musical instrument and selling the same as a program.
    Copying or distributing, or making available to third parties for their copy or distribution, any Programmed Sounds.

Should you have any questions or concerns regarding authorized or unauthorized uses of Yamahaís Programmed Sounds, please contact your legal counsel for advice. Thank you for your interest in Yamaha products.
Now they grey area is the first para IMO, as we own such instruments are we classed as a third party?In the same club so to speak. So most here are yamaha users, and Kris is using Yamaha sounds.  Kris can do them but not sell them. As for other keyboards I do not know, but I hope he does get permission.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2020, 04:27:04 PM by Des O »