Author Topic: i prefer the vibes sound from my old psr 4600  (Read 931 times)

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Offline anon125

i prefer the vibes sound from my old psr 4600
« on: July 18, 2020, 01:31:32 AM »
i prefer the vibes sound from my old psr 4600 to the vibes or vibraphone on the sx900.
Is there a way to put that sound on the sx900?
or maybe i can get a free download somewhere,
thanks all
 

Offline overover

Re: i prefer the vibes sound from my old psr 4600
« Reply #1 on: July 18, 2020, 04:04:42 AM »
Hi Anon,

the only way to bring an original PSR-4600 sound into the SX900 would be to sample it directly from a 4600 and use these Samples then to create a new Custom Voice for the SX900 using the Expansion Manager (YEM). To do this, however, you need certain expertise.


BUT: Have you tried all of the SX900 Vibraphone/Vibes Voices yet? I searched the SX900 Voice List (included in the SX900 DATA LIST) for those Voices and found the following:

PANEL Voice folder > "Perc.&Drums"
   • Vibraphone
   • Vibes&Flutes
   • JazzVibes
   • Vibes&JazzGuitar

LEGACY Voice folder > "Percussion"
   • Vibraphone

Note: To find and call up the “LEGACY” Voice folder, touch the "Up" arrow at the bottom right of the Voice Selection display (when Preset is selected), and then select page 2. This folder contains previous Yamaha keyboards’ Voices (such as the PSR-S series) for data compatibility with other models.


You can also try the following GM&XG Voices:
   • HardVibes
   • VibesKSP
   • Vibraphone

To play these Voices, click the following link and download the file "Vibraphone GM&XG.zip" from my Dropbox. Unzip the file, then copy the folder "Vibraphone GM&XG" on a USB stick and connect it to the SX900.

>>> https://www.dropbox.com/s/kfielnx9gsex5rf/Vibraphone%20GM%26XG.zip?dl=0

Then use the Voice Selection display to call up the Voices directly from the USB stick. Note: You can only use these .vce Voices in Keyboard Parts (Right 1 - 3, Left).


Hope this helps!

Best regards,
Chris
« Last Edit: July 18, 2020, 04:12:02 AM by overover »
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Offline blackpool

Re: i prefer the vibes sound from my old psr 4600
« Reply #2 on: July 18, 2020, 12:15:51 PM »
As chris points out ....When looking for voice options....do remember to use the 'search' function ( when on the voice screen of course ) This will bring up all options of the instrument/sound you are looking for, including those in preset, user, usb or legacy folders ...it is a quick and easy solution.

Many users ignore this great function which is there to be used.

I also copy any from usb to user whenever i load any additional voices, so they will always be there for future searches.

Keith
« Last Edit: July 18, 2020, 12:22:45 PM by blackpool »
 

Offline EileenL

Re: i prefer the vibes sound from my old psr 4600
« Reply #3 on: July 18, 2020, 12:23:58 PM »
Don't forget you can use voice edit to add different effects and make it more to your liking and then save as a user voice.

Offline anon125

Re: i prefer the vibes sound from my old psr 4600
« Reply #4 on: July 18, 2020, 07:41:00 PM »
thanks everyone, yes i used the search function.
i will look at that legacy thing
 

Offline anon125

Re: i prefer the vibes sound from my old psr 4600
« Reply #5 on: July 19, 2020, 08:07:06 PM »
What format does the sound sample file have to be in? I can use audacity a bit.
Thanks
 

Offline mikf

Re: i prefer the vibes sound from my old psr 4600
« Reply #6 on: July 19, 2020, 08:57:35 PM »
There is a very good chance it is not actually a new sample, just edited.
 

Offline anon125

Re: i prefer the vibes sound from my old psr 4600
« Reply #7 on: July 20, 2020, 03:35:07 PM »
if i stick the camera in front of the 4600 speaker and get a sound file i can assure you it is new!
 

Offline mikf

Re: i prefer the vibes sound from my old psr 4600
« Reply #8 on: July 20, 2020, 05:03:15 PM »
You cant necessarily tell from the sound if it is a new sample or just the same sample with different effects, editing and processing.
 

Offline anon125

Re: i prefer the vibes sound from my old psr 4600
« Reply #9 on: July 20, 2020, 09:20:05 PM »
You cant necessarily tell from the sound if it is a new sample or just the same sample with different effects, editing and processing.
if i am recording it from my 4600 why isnt it new?
i doubt the original for a 30 year old keyboard is still around. if it is, where do i find it so i dont have to sample it.
thanks
« Last Edit: July 20, 2020, 09:21:24 PM by anon125 »
 

Offline mikf

Re: i prefer the vibes sound from my old psr 4600
« Reply #10 on: July 21, 2020, 05:52:51 PM »
If you make a new sample obviously that would be new but what can you make it from if the keyboard no longer exists? I was thinking that both of these original vibe voices are probably synthesized rather than sample based anyway, and that you may not have to find the actual 4600. If you look at legacy voices you might find one old enough that it is similar to the 4600. Its possible though, that played on a more modern keyboard with improved sound processing, even the original voice might sound different. But if it’s closer, maybe you can edit it until it is to your liking.
Mike
 

Offline anon125

Re: i prefer the vibes sound from my old psr 4600
« Reply #11 on: July 21, 2020, 07:38:30 PM »
as i said. i own a 4600.
what process do i do now?
thanks
 

Offline mikf

Re: i prefer the vibes sound from my old psr 4600
« Reply #12 on: July 21, 2020, 10:46:36 PM »
 I don't think I have ever seen any discussion on this forum of how to create samples. People might buy or acquire samples and load them into the keyboard, but as far as I am aware, creating them is a whole different ball game. It needs special equipment and software, and a lot of expertise to do a half decent job. You can find some articles on the internet that describe the process of you are interested. 
But IMHO unless you can find someone else that has expertise in this and can do it for you I think your best bet is to find a legacy sample that is somewhat close, copy the file onto the new keyboard, then play around with the voice parameters it to get it to where you like it. I think there might be some people that can help with that on the forum - but I hasten to add that I am not one of them :o
Mike
 

Offline jwyvern

Re: i prefer the vibes sound from my old psr 4600
« Reply #13 on: July 22, 2020, 07:57:42 AM »
I have been wondering what properties of the old sound make it so special that it justifies the hassle of making new samples. The basic  vibe sound must be the same over the years but the spatial effects (eg. Dsp and sustain) used with it can make all the difference to what might at first be heard as a closed, boring sound.
The main  vibes on the SX900 seems to be the same as on Genos which is rather "smoothed off" by the restricting EQ dsp which has been applied to it. You can turn off the existing which results a more strident tone if that is what you prefer. You can go more strident again if you now substitute a Compressor dsp, say Compressor Melody, and turn it on. You can also play with the Compressor dsp parameters to get further changes if you wish eg. Turn up the High Gain offset and listen for the hammer strikes. Also make other changes in the voice editor ( reverb, attack, release) to get closer to what you want (or maybe even better  ;)). 
John
« Last Edit: July 22, 2020, 11:55:19 AM by jwyvern »
 

Offline jwyvern

Re: i prefer the vibes sound from my old psr 4600
« Reply #14 on: July 22, 2020, 10:06:02 AM »
If anyone has already read my previous post please note I have since added more detail to it.
It is possible to change significantly the character of the vibes (on Genos and presumably the 900), the only question is whether it is in line with the OP's taste  ::)
John
« Last Edit: July 22, 2020, 11:58:30 AM by jwyvern »
 

Offline mikf

Re: i prefer the vibes sound from my old psr 4600
« Reply #15 on: July 22, 2020, 04:14:18 PM »
I think only the OP can decide what he likes. John, you are reinforcing my point that these vibe voices are likely both synthesized, not sample based, ie just slightly different parameters applied to a tone wave. So it should be possible to play around with them and get close to what you want.
Mike
 

Offline anon125

Re: i prefer the vibes sound from my old psr 4600
« Reply #16 on: July 22, 2020, 04:17:37 PM »
thanks all.
I would still like to know the process.
 

Offline Joe H

Re: i prefer the vibes sound from my old psr 4600
« Reply #17 on: July 22, 2020, 04:23:18 PM »
Have you tried the GM-XG vibes... these are old samples and may be the same as your 4600. The GM-XG Voices do not have DSPs assigned to them so you will have to open Voice Set and tweak the Voice by adding DSPs, adjusting the Brightness and Resonance, etc.  Then save the Voice as a "User Voice"

Joe H
« Last Edit: July 22, 2020, 04:24:39 PM by Joe H »
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My Article: Using Multi Pads in registrations. Download Regs, Styles & MPs:  http://psrtutorial.com/music/articles/dancemusic.html
 

Offline overover

Re: i prefer the vibes sound from my old psr 4600
« Reply #18 on: July 22, 2020, 04:58:58 PM »
thanks all.
I would still like to know the process.

Hi Anon,

to can make a new Custom Voice (in the YEM) you need several Samples of this 4600 vibes sound (at least 3 Samples per Octave). If the original sound is very different depending on the played Velocity, you should record the Samples with at least two differerent Velocities per key.

The Samples must be in WAV format 44.1 kHz / 16-bit / Stereo (!)

In the YEM, first create a new Pack, and in this Pack create a new Custom Normal Voice. Import the WAV files into the new Voice and do the Key and Velocity mapping, so that each WAV plays on a defined Key and Velocity Range.

Make the Global Voice settings in YEM, make the Envelope settings (e.g. Attack, Decay, Release of the Amp Envelopes), and finally make the Effect settings.


You should read the YEM Owner's Manual first:

>>> https://uk.yamaha.com/files/download/other_assets/3/1136733/yamaha_expansion_manager_en_om_v250_h0.pdf


P.S.
I'm sure that you can edit a SX900 Preset Voice or a GM&XG Voice (see my first post again) so that it sounds the way you want it. In any case, you should thoroughly study the sound editing options (>>> SX900 Reference Manual, sections "Editing Voices (Voice Edit)", from page 46 and "Mixer" (including Effects), from page 102).


Best regards,
Chris

« Last Edit: July 22, 2020, 05:02:21 PM by overover »
Everyone always said: This is not possible! - Then someone came and ... just did it!
 

Offline jwyvern

Re: i prefer the vibes sound from my old psr 4600
« Reply #19 on: July 22, 2020, 05:09:48 PM »
thanks all.
I would still like to know the process.

On Genos, and therefore hopefully similar on the 900:
Load the vibes into say R1. Now go to the Voice Editor and touch Effects. You will see the currently assigned effect- is it 3BandEQ?
Turn it off, play and compare,
To change to a different dsp touch the name (EBandEQ) once or possibly twice. In the screen that pops up touch EQ & Comp (twice? Yamaha can be a pain!). Now touch Compressor Melody to select it, close the window and ensure the compressor window shows ON. Play and compare.
To change compressor parameters touch Detail, then keep touching to change the parameters you want to explore in particular High Gain offset, while playing and comparing.
If you want to save what you have done, close the compressor window to return to the editor and at the top should be a Save icon so touch it, navigate to the user voice files where you want to save it and go through the usual short voice saving process.
John
 

Offline panos

Re: i prefer the vibes sound from my old psr 4600
« Reply #20 on: July 22, 2020, 05:51:10 PM »
Hi Anon,
I would also recommend not to deal with sound sampling.Not at least yet that you don't know how to do it.

A demo from Style2psr (and this is just the last stage):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vgoEgHxJgXg

Here is a demo of the voices of the Yamaha 4600 from KeyboardKrazy49
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frFtnK9CkDY&t=475s

Maybe someone with a SX900 could replicate the sounds that Anon is looking for with the voice set filters.Watch the 4600 screen in high resolution for the voice numbers. 

I think Anon should install the GM,GM2 and legacy folders on his keyboard first to get more voices or am I wrong and these folders are already installed on the SX900?

Offline anon125

Re: i prefer the vibes sound from my old psr 4600
« Reply #21 on: July 22, 2020, 07:00:50 PM »
I have a 4600 so i dont need a demo thanks but michaels videos are very helpful
thanks
 

Offline panos

Re: i prefer the vibes sound from my old psr 4600
« Reply #22 on: July 22, 2020, 08:28:56 PM »
You are wellcome Anon  :)
The demo video is for someone who doesn't know how the vibes are sounding to a psr4600 so he can  listen the two sounds and maybe could help if he owns an SX900.

Michael's videos are nice and helpful, I agree to that.

Offline hans1966

Re: i prefer the vibes sound from my old psr 4600
« Reply #23 on: July 22, 2020, 09:19:47 PM »
I find that the SX900 has a very good Vibraphone sound. I think that with a little patience and imagination you can shape this sound using the SX900's built-in mixer in a moderate way.

It's just my opinion. I hope it will do some good.
Hans
« Last Edit: July 22, 2020, 09:21:22 PM by hans1966 »
 

Offline anon125

Re: i prefer the vibes sound from my old psr 4600
« Reply #24 on: July 23, 2020, 06:17:43 AM »
thanks all