Author Topic: How do you use the live controlls?  (Read 887 times)

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Offline Bachus

How do you use the live controlls?
« on: July 09, 2020, 09:28:13 AM »
Just out of interest, how do you use the live controlls?

Espescially, the sliders and knobs?


Personally, i tend to use the knobs mostly for quickly edditing sounds in preperation of a performance..  sometimes, for real time using a filter cutoff.. but if the performance requires that, i prefer using the pedals for this..  also the function to quckly switch of and on. Style parts trough a knob works well for me

Sliders, i use more live, for adjusting part volume on the fly.. and for drawbars..


After 2 years of the Genos, i think the new live controlls are a huge step forward..


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Offline Fred Smith

Re: How do you use the live controlls?
« Reply #1 on: July 09, 2020, 09:40:30 AM »
Iíll be interested in the replies, Bachus.

My answer is simple: I donít. But Iíll be interested to know what Iíve been missing.

Cheers,
Fred
Fred Smith,
Saskatoon, SK
Sun Lakes, AZ
Genos, Bose L1 compacts, Finale 2015
Check out my Registration Lessons
 

Re: How do you use the live controlls?
« Reply #2 on: July 09, 2020, 10:04:42 AM »
It's fun to assign the style complexity to a knob. There are two choices; start with everything or start with nothing, and then dial in the backup on the fly.
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Offline DerekA

Re: How do you use the live controlls?
« Reply #3 on: July 09, 2020, 12:04:22 PM »
Apart from style retrigger/part on-off and arp control there's not much you can't do in another way. But I find it very helpful to assign functions that I use a lot. It's all about customising how you personally want it, there's no right or wrong.

I have one slider set assigned to give reverb depth L/R1/R2/R3 on the first 4 sliders, and volume L/R1/R2/R3 on the second 4.

Then I use another slider set for the style part volume mixing, I find it easier than calling up the mixer on screen.

I use one of the knobs for modulation depth. I'm not a fan of using the joystick + mod hold button. The knob stays where I put it :)


Genos
 

Offline Pino

Re: How do you use the live controlls?
« Reply #4 on: July 09, 2020, 03:21:06 PM »
In a live playing situation isnít saving everything to REGISTRATIONS the way to go and using the pedal Registration sequence is a real bonus.
If the 8 or 10 slots is not enough it can automatically call up the next bank.

Pino
« Last Edit: July 09, 2020, 03:27:36 PM by Pino »
SX900 - Ketron SD40 - Maui 5s
 

Offline blackpool

Re: How do you use the live controlls?
« Reply #5 on: July 09, 2020, 03:52:30 PM »

For ease i just use one for reverb and the other for balance, this i find works great for me on the fly. ( SX only has 2 with 3 options for each from lots of choices )

and if anyone is interested ... i  like the assign buttons ....( 6 on SX )  2 for octave  2 for transpose  1 for harmony and 1 for rotary
I do like the way these work in pairs just like the real time controls and if you hit say the 2 together set on octave it defaults back to factory.

Keith
« Last Edit: July 09, 2020, 04:36:54 PM by blackpool »
 

Offline Wim

Re: How do you use the live controlls?
« Reply #6 on: July 09, 2020, 09:10:40 PM »
Me answer the same as Fred Smith
 

Offline Al Ram

Re: How do you use the live controlls?
« Reply #7 on: July 10, 2020, 01:31:05 AM »
Just out of interest, how do you use the live controlls?

Espescially, the sliders and knobs?


I don't use them.    I pre program my registrations so when playing live i do not really have to touch the live controls . . . well maybe ocasionally . . . . but 99% is regs . . .

thanks
AL
San Diego/Tijuana
 

Offline DerekA

Re: How do you use the live controlls?
« Reply #8 on: July 10, 2020, 09:29:10 AM »
You might be missing out a bit then Al. They allow you to easily introduce changes to the sound as you play and as the mood takes you.

Then again, I guess it's maybe different for performers, who need to give a consistent reliable result and for whom a sudden accidental change to the sound would be bad.
Genos
 

Offline johan

Re: How do you use the live controlls?
« Reply #9 on: July 10, 2020, 09:46:15 AM »
I am a novice and do not own a Genos, but on my SX700 I prefer to assign "style complexity" (from nothing to all instruments) on one controler and style volume on the other. I have to admit it took me a while to figure out how to do the latter. I change style quite often and my experience is that there can be quite some difference in volume of the style versus the right 1-2-3 voices so being able to quickly adjust the style volume without going via the mixer is very practical for me.

Offline blackpool

Re: How do you use the live controlls?
« Reply #10 on: July 10, 2020, 10:05:38 AM »
on my SX700 I prefer to assign "style complexity" (from nothing to all instruments) on one controler and style volume on the other. I have to admit it took me a while to figure out how to do the latter.

Hi Johan... Now that sounds interesting !!  Where and how do i find these options ?? I have just been looking at the drop down options

i can only assume you mean style track mute A and B ? cant find anything labelled 'style complexity'

Thanks Keith
« Last Edit: July 10, 2020, 11:44:54 AM by blackpool »
 

Offline soryt

Re: How do you use the live controlls?
« Reply #11 on: July 10, 2020, 11:27:16 AM »
Sliders mostly Style part volume , and drawbars while playing .
Knobs for eq and reverb "onthe fly"

:D
 

Offline DerekA

Re: How do you use the live controlls?
« Reply #12 on: July 10, 2020, 12:14:21 PM »
i can only assume you mean style track mute A and B ? cant find anything labelled 'style complexity'

Here's a demo of this in action (on Genos but it's the same on SX)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gvf57O5E7ig
« Last Edit: July 10, 2020, 12:15:28 PM by DerekA »
Genos
 
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Offline johan

Re: How do you use the live controlls?
« Reply #13 on: July 10, 2020, 12:20:13 PM »
DerekA, this was indeed what I meant with "style complexity"  :).
Style volume on SX700 is done via category=mixer, function=volume and then select in the bar below (default is Right1).
SX700
 
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Offline blackpool

Re: How do you use the live controlls?
« Reply #14 on: July 10, 2020, 01:13:49 PM »
Thanks Derek,  i think style track adjustments A and B are excellent. Great little video by J. at Hamiltons
Ironically my local shop!

Regards - Keith 
 

Offline Joe H

Re: How do you use the live controlls?
« Reply #15 on: July 10, 2020, 02:30:28 PM »
Just out of interest, how do you use the live controlls?

Espescially, the sliders and knobs?


Personally, i tend to use the knobs mostly for quickly edditing sounds in preperation of a performance..  sometimes, for real time using a filter cutoff.. but if the performance requires that, i prefer using the pedals for this..  also the function to quckly switch of and on. Style parts trough a knob works well for me

Sliders, i use more live, for adjusting part volume on the fly.. and for drawbars..

After 2 years of the Genos, i think the new live controlls are a huge step forward..

I use my 2 Live control knobs in so many ways, I can't really say just how here. I would have to write a tutorial.  ;D 

Yamaha developed the XG format so we could make more expressive music.  Without the XG sound controllers (and even sysex), MIDI music is rather static and robotic.  The XG standard adds a great deal of expressiveness to MIDI music.  I learned this a long time ago when I first bought my hardware MIDI controller.  I couldn't do MIDI without it these days. 

I would like to see Yamaha add Live Control to the foot pedal. For instance; assign any Live Control parameter to the foot pedal for real-time control using the pedal... there is so much potential there.  But you have to understand MIDI to realize this.  The arranger is after all a MIDI keyboard. Some of us who like synths, want the arranger to be a expressive as our synth.

It all makes sense to me!

 :)

Joe H
« Last Edit: July 10, 2020, 02:40:11 PM by Joe H »
Music is the Universal Language!

My Article: Using Multi Pads in registrations. Download Regs, Styles & MPs:  http://psrtutorial.com/music/articles/dancemusic.html
 

Offline Dnj

Re: How do you use the live controlls?
« Reply #16 on: July 10, 2020, 03:23:42 PM »
As a singer player I use the two knobs on sx900  for 1- Mp3 volume for backing tracks,...and 2- Mic Volume..
 

Offline Fred Smith

Re: How do you use the live controlls?
« Reply #17 on: July 10, 2020, 03:45:15 PM »
It seems to me from these comments that people use either registrations, or live controls, but not both.

Cheers,
Fred
Fred Smith,
Saskatoon, SK
Sun Lakes, AZ
Genos, Bose L1 compacts, Finale 2015
Check out my Registration Lessons
 

Offline blackpool

Re: How do you use the live controlls?
« Reply #18 on: July 10, 2020, 05:46:30 PM »
In the second half of this Paul does a nice little 'on the fly' demo with them on an sx900
I had not realised just how useful they might be, Then I only use my Yamaha as a 'plug and play' arranger and this IMHO is moving towards a synth /workstation .....i dont really know??

I suppose in this way Fred, you would use live controls as an addition to registrations.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hIlnkNbvx9c

Keith
« Last Edit: July 10, 2020, 05:53:02 PM by blackpool »
 

Offline Joe H

Re: How do you use the live controlls?
« Reply #19 on: July 10, 2020, 06:22:07 PM »
It seems to me from these comments that people use either registrations, or live controls, but not both.

Cheers,
Fred

Well starting with Genos and the sx900 it's not either/or, Live Control settings can be SAVED in registrations which makes the registrations far more powerful with those added parameter settings to tailor your styles and OTS.

Joe H
Music is the Universal Language!

My Article: Using Multi Pads in registrations. Download Regs, Styles & MPs:  http://psrtutorial.com/music/articles/dancemusic.html
 
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Offline Fred Smith

Re: How do you use the live controlls?
« Reply #20 on: July 10, 2020, 06:39:44 PM »

I suppose in this way Fred, you would use live controls as an addition to registrations.


The problem is that if a registration sets something, and the slider/knob is at a different value, then moving the slider/knob can result in a really annoying pop. So those of us who set values in a registration never use a slider/knob for that parameter.

I will use the controls on the touchscreen, because they match what the registration set, but I won't use a slider.

If Yamaha would move to electronic, rather than physical, sliders, then their use would be much more prevalent.

Cheers,
Fred
Fred Smith,
Saskatoon, SK
Sun Lakes, AZ
Genos, Bose L1 compacts, Finale 2015
Check out my Registration Lessons
 

Offline Joe H

Re: How do you use the live controlls?
« Reply #21 on: July 10, 2020, 07:27:57 PM »
... If Yamaha would move to electronic, rather than physical, sliders, then their use would be much more prevalent.

Cheers,
Fred

I believe the problem could be fixed with firmware code.  Peavey Electronics accomplished this back in the late 1990's with their PC1600x hardware MIDI controller, (which has the same kind of sliders) so I think Yamaha software people should be able to do the same with the physical sliders on the Genos.  The way it works on the PC1600x is incoming MIDI data is scanned for the last data value; when I move the slider (no matter what the position is, there is a smooth transition of the data from the last value.  If that were implemented on the Genos and sx900, then it would be important to keep the slider/knob at center position for best results.

The problem think is how the code is written now.  If there was a "peek" line of code to look at the current data value for whatever the slider is assigned to then it could work.

BTW... on Yamaha synths, rotary encoders are used to accomplish smooth data value changes.  So maybe the next keyboard will have encoders for knobs and motorized faders that will always be positioned where the data value is currently.

Come on Yamaha... you can do it!

Joe H
« Last Edit: July 12, 2020, 04:00:51 PM by Joe H »
Music is the Universal Language!

My Article: Using Multi Pads in registrations. Download Regs, Styles & MPs:  http://psrtutorial.com/music/articles/dancemusic.html
 

Offline Bachus

Re: How do you use the live controlls?
« Reply #22 on: July 12, 2020, 03:37:53 PM »
In a live playing situation isnít saving everything to REGISTRATIONS the way to go and using the pedal Registration sequence is a real bonus.
If the 8 or 10 slots is not enough it can automatically call up the next bank.

Pino

Thats your way of working, since i donít play live, i mostly use styles and sts and such..
Only when i have finalized a song, i save it to a performance .. 
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Offline Bachus

Re: How do you use the live controlls?
« Reply #23 on: July 12, 2020, 03:45:45 PM »
The problem is that if a registration sets something, and the slider/knob is at a different value, then moving the slider/knob can result in a really annoying pop. So those of us who set values in a registration never use a slider/knob for that parameter.

I will use the controls on the touchscreen, because they match what the registration set, but I won't use a slider.

If Yamaha would move to electronic, rather than physical, sliders, then their use would be much more prevalent.

Cheers,
Fred

This is easy to overcome..
Make it so the slider needs to pick up the vallue
The Montage has 3 settings for this.. Genos only has one..


Electronic sliders?  Did you ever play a nord stage with electronic sliders?
I totally didnít like the experience, maybe cause i wanst used to them, could be.

If one thing there is to improve the sliders, then its motorized faders like on most high end mixers
But those are expensive, would be a cost driver, and are prone to failures after a few years.
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