Topic: Yamaha v. Korg comparison

[Noteplayer]

I'm a new member here & I'm interested in the Yamaha PSREW410. I'm not interested in a piano only keyboard, I want an ensemble since I'll be playing music from many genres. I also don't plan on writing music. I'm 70 years old & having not played the piano for years, the Yamaha higher end models like the SX700-900 might be overkill for me.

However, while looking at the specs of the Korg equivalent, EK50, the Korg appears to have more to offer for about the same money. So I started looking at other Korg models that are comparable to the Yamaha models & most all have more bells & whisties than Yamaha and in most cases are less expensive. But I've also read & heard that Yamaha has better sounds on some or most of their instrument samples which is very important.

Nonetheless, my question is: Why did you buy Yamaha? Was it because of their sampling, ease of use, cost, etc?

Bob

[blackpool]

Hi - Its just a matter of choice Bob...I own both makes 

If you want ensemble and piano then maybe the new XE20 of Korgs is an option ( works on the same OS as an EK50 )
This is really easy to use and has some great features

I do think Yamaha are good with GREAT voices and user friendly so maybe a DGX model would be another option although it does not have the same features as an XE20

In my opinion if your looking for a piano 'feel' then an arranger like a Yamaha PSREW410 or an SX is not going to be suitable and i would go for something in the piano line by either maker.

Best to try out ...but easier said than done at the moment with this lockdown of movement

Good luck and enjoy what you decide on

[Graham UK]

Bob. This being a Yamaha mainly forum you will be getting Bias reply's.

I have had Yamaha,Roland & Korg, todays keyboards from these brands are all good, it's just down to personal choice.
When this Virus gets better best to spend time at your local dealer.

[DrakeM]

If you are just a sit and play user, I guess it might be best to choose a keyboard with the most styles on board. So you won't get bored with it as fast.

I stick with Yamaha's PSR model line (now called the SX line) as I gig with the keyboard. I like creating my own personal custom song styles (using the keyboard's Style Creator), so I never use the same style for two different songs. When I wear this keyboard out all the styles I have custom made will be usable in the next Yamaha keyboard I replace it with. It's a winner keyboard line. 

Keep in mind with the SX line or the Genos line you have access to literally THOUSANDS of Yamaha styles that you can use that are posted here on the PSR site. So step up to one of those keyboards and go CRAZY is my advice. 

Also I have heard many people over the years (who own other keyboard brands) remark that this site is by far the BEST keyboard forum, very helpful and knowledgeable members run it and hang out here.  Just one more big reason to picking a YAMAHA keyboard.

Regards
Drake

[Noteplayer]

Thanks for the advice, what you all say makes sense.  Actually I'll probably assess my needs & won't buy anything till this virus thing is somehow solved. I do know that I want an arranger & I like the PSR670 also but since that model is 5 yrs old I'm wondering if an updated model is coming soon. As I said earlier, the SX7-900 are too much for me.

Anyway, I'll take my time & decide sometime soon & despite Korg offering more I'll probably be buying Yamaha.

Bob

[mikf]

There are other advantages in the more expensive models besides additional functions. For example  they normally have bigger and better speakers which sound much better, the keyboard may have better feel. Many people buy these more expensive boards without diving into all the additional functions, they just like the higher overall quality.
As far as brands are concerned, both leading brands are good, and while broadly similar have detail differences. Preference might be driven by these differences, or for existing owners, reluctance to change horses and have a new learning curve.
Mike

[Noteplayer]

mikf,

You bring up some really good points. I've been thinking I should not buy a better keyboard because I'd feel compelled to have to learn every feature when in fact I don't have to (dive in) use all it has to offer.
And you're right, if I buy Yamaha, I probably would stay with that brand simply because I, too, wouldn't want to change horses either lol.

Very good food for thought.

Bob

[Toril S]

I mostly just sit and play, I don't dive into all those complicated features. But I purchased a Genos, and am so happy wiht it. Overkill? Probable a major overkill, but what the heck! I am having fun, so I see no problem. I would advice you to go for an XS model. Fantastic sound, and much easier to import styles. The touch screen makes it fast and convenient to use. The corona virus makes us stay at home, so this is an ideal time to buy a new keyboard and dive into music If budget don't allow an SX, you could look for an S775 or 975. No touch screen, but very good keyboards. With a lot of features you will love. Good luck deciding

[overover]

Hi Bob,

if you are not buying an SX700 / 900 model, I strongly recommend that you do NOT go with the S670, but definitely with an S770 / 970 or S775 / 975.

Above all, the fact that there are no direct access buttons (A - J) on the S670 to the left and right of the display makes operation on the S670 unnecessarily complicated.

If you want to have a (much) better keybed (than the PSR-S models have), you should try a Tyros5 (61 or 76 keys). The SX series have a slightly better keybed than the PSR-S models.

And please do not be afraid of "too many functions" with a slightly higher quality model. With EVERY Yamaha Arranger Keyboard you can sit down and start playing (also e.g. with the Genos):

You select a STYLE, select the desired MAIN VARIATION and, if necessary, a specific INTRO, select one of the 4 OTS (= One Touch Settings), and off you go. If you have activated "OTS LINK", even the OTS will switch automatically (depending on the selected Main Variation).


Best regards,
Chris

[Noteplayer]

Well, after all this terrific advise, I'm leaning towards the SX700. I agree buying a model (S670) would be foolish especially since it's already 5 yrs old.

Thanks again to all.

Bob

[SciNote]

I took a look at the specs for the Korg models mentioned above, and my take is that, when compared to the Yamaha PSR-EW410 or PSR-E463, the Korg might have an edge in some of the technology, such as more polyphony, more memory for onboard recording, and more digital effects, but the Yamahas have a strong edge in flexibility.  Unless the Korg specs I read were incomplete, I saw no way to modify the sound other than the digital effects, whereas the Yamahas (the EW410 and E463) have audio filters and an envelope generator for synthesizer-like control over the sound, as well as digital effects like flanger and phaser.  And while the Korg can split the keyboard (which, of course, the Yamahas can also do), I did not see it mentioned in the specs where it can layer, or combine two sounds at once for the same notes being played.  That is a very nice feature on the Yamahas.  Also, the Yamahas have live-control knobs that allow easy, real-time changing of these parameters -- even while playing a song.

And of course, it comes down to what you really want to use the keyboard for.  While the EW410 does have 76 keys, they are not weighted, so neither of these Yamahas simulate the feel of a piano.  But they are good for a synth/organ feel -- not as good as they should be, but better than recent Casios, in my opinion.  I have no direct experience with the above-mentioned Korg models.

As for going with the more expensive SX models versus the E463 or EW410, again, that depends on what you want to do and what your budget is.  The SX700 is about 3 to 4 times as expensive as the EW410, and about 5 times as expensive as the E463, but of course, you'll get more voices, more styles, and more flexibility overall.

I have one of the PSR-E463's predecessors -- the PSR-E433 -- and I am very happy with it.  I've had it for over six years, and while these keyboards are marketed as "entry level" keyboards, I have been playing keyboard for 42 years.

One more quick note -- I agree with the concerns about buying the PSR-S670 as it is a five year old model that may get replaced soon.  Well, the same is true for the EW410 and E463 -- they are two year old models and would usually be due for replacement right about now, but Yamaha seems to have altered their product scheduling.  However, they have now put the PSR-I500 on their US website, which is an E463 derivative focused on Indian music, but it has other features not available on the EW410 or E463 that can be used in a wide variety of music.  That model may also be worth a look.  I know I'm curious about it!

[DonM]

I've been trying to stay out of this BUT... 
I have had every Yamaha arranger, except a very few, since they were invented back in the early 80's.  My latest was Genos and SX900.
I've also had numerous arrangers by Korg, Roland, Technics and Ketron...even GEM and once a Cas**.
Earlier this year I had Genos, Korg PA4X and Roland EA7 all at the same time.  For MY needs and preferences the Korg was my favorite.  The Genos was fantastic too, but I don't like the length and hate the vocal harmonizer.
I have since sold both the Genos and my beloved Pa4X and have kept the Roland.  Why?  Because they are all great, in various ways, I'm not working for the first time EVER, and I was able to recover my investments in the higher priced models.  Korg will release a new top of the line model when the crises is over, and I'll take a look at it, but for now I am quite happy with the inexpensive Roland.  It sounds good, is lightweight and I love the light key touch (similar to SX900). 
My point here is that ALL the new arrangers are fantastic bargains and it is a matter of deciding which suits you best for your personal needs and wishes.
As a rule, you will get opinions here that are biased toward Yamaha, and rightfully so as it is a Yamaha forum.  If you go to Korg forum, opinions will be opposite.  Roland is just about ancient history unless they fool us and come up with a new TOTL arranger.  They seem to be doing only entry-level stuff lately.  Ketron makes fantastic arrangers, but support is limited to one person in the US, they are quite expensive and there is quite a learning curve to the operating system.
As advised by others, it is almost a necessity to try them.  Several online companies, such as Sweetwater and Musicians Friend allow you to buy with the option to return them with a month or so, most times with no penalty at all.  And, especially right now, they WILL dicker with you on the price. 

[SciNote]

I've been trying to stay out of this BUT... 
I have had every Yamaha arranger, except a very few, since they were invented back in the early 80's.  My latest was Genos and SX900.
I've also had numerous arrangers by Korg, Roland, Technics and Ketron...even GEM and once a Cas**.

...

Just curious -- why the 2 asterisks (**) at the at the end of that brand name?  And while I know Yamaha started making portable electronic keyboards around the early 1980's, it seemed like it was later in the decade when anything that would be considered an arranger started hitting the market.  I remember a PSR-6100, which I think was a late 1980's model and was quite expensive at the time -- well over $1000, if I recall.  Again, just curious -- what kind of arrangers were on the market in the early 1980's?

[DonM]

Just curious -- why the 2 asterisks (**) at the at the end of that brand name?  And while I know Yamaha started making portable electronic keyboards around the early 1980's, it seemed like it was later in the decade when anything that would be considered an arranger started hitting the market.  I remember a PSR-6100, which I think was a late 1980's model and was quite expensive at the time -- well over $1000, if I recall.  Again, just curious -- what kind of arrangers were on the market in the early 1980's?

Oh, I was just joking about owning a Casio.  Actually it had really good piano and organ, but not much else that I could use.
My first arranger was PS-55 in '83.  The 6100 was in '84 and a huge leap forward at the time.  I was able to use these because I used them with a DX7, and midied them to a drum machine and a couple of sound modules.  Vocals of course were through a mixer.  The arranger mostly generated the styles, which were pretty basic back then.
If I remember correctly the PS6100 allowed you to save data via a cassette tape as did the early drum machines.   The 6300 came shortly after, and they brought something new out about once or twice a year.  Back then the improvements were pretty significant between models. 
The first arranger where I used the internal drum sounds was Techics KN2000.  The first arranger that had a vocal harmonizer was PSR 8000, which was WAY ahead of its time.   It allowed you to move factory style locations, had a great "swing" feature that let you change, say, a 4/4 style to a 6/8 with the push of one button.  Back then they only had two style variations, but there was a workaround to make two more per style that in essence allowed four.  I kept if for several years, even while buying other models and other brands. 
Nice memories.  But the modern day stuff is truly fantastic, and you get SO much for your money.
I started using arrangers because the last organ I had was a Yamaha FS-500 that weighed a TON.  I was moving it, a leslie cabinet, bench, pedals, and pa system around like it weighed nothing back then.  The organ dolly weighed more than most of my gear combined does now!

[overover]

... And while I know Yamaha started making portable electronic keyboards around the early 1980's, it seemed like it was later in the decade when anything that would be considered an arranger started hitting the market.  I remember a PSR-6100, which I think was a late 1980's model and was quite expensive at the time -- well over $1000, if I recall.  Again, just curious -- what kind of arrangers were on the market in the early 1980's?

Hi Bob,

maybe the following links will help you:

https://www.keyboardline.de/viewtopic.php?t=1525

https://www.yamaha.com/en/about/history/products/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Yamaha_Corporation_products#Organs

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Yamaha_Corporation_products#Portable_keyboards


Best regards,
Chri

[SciNote]

Hey guys, thanks for all that information!  Lots of interesting stuff there.  I did see some errors, such as one list showing the PSR-300 and PSR-310 both coming out in 1993, which was not the case -- I worked for an electronics store back then, and I remember the PSR-300 coming out at the same time as the PSR-500, which was in 1991.  But otherwise, very informative.  And I didn't realize that the PS-6100 dated all the way back to 1984.  I also forgot that they just prefixed it with "PS" and not "PSR".

Of course, I know Yamaha had all kinds of various keyboards, home organs, and synths "back in the day."  My parents even bought me a D-80 home organ back in 1978.  Little did I know back then that it (as far as I know) was based on the same circuitry as the legendary CS-80 synthesizer, but with much less editing of the sound available.  And I know the DX-7 synth was introduced in 1983, and I actually bought one in 1985 -- but with no onboard rhythms and styles, that would not be an arranger.  But when I asked about what kind of "arrangers" were on the market back then, I meant it in the way that we conventionally use the term today -- a portable keyboard (and I don't mean just the lower priced keyboards that Yamaha calls "portable keyboards" -- I mean it literally in the sense of a keyboard that you can pick up and carry under your arm) with a variety of sounds and background styles -- which today could be anything from a PSR-F51 to a Genos -- though I was more curious about the higher-end units that would've been available back then.  My D-80 organ would otherwise qualify as an "arranger", but unless you're 20 feet tall, you wouldn't have been able to carry it under one arm    !

So, yes, the PS-6100 reaches back into at least the earlier part of the 1980's, and it looks like there were many more arranger type keyboards in a variety of price ranges back then.

[MaltaMystery]

Hi Bob... Mike here... Just wanted to say this is a matter of choice nowadays... As most brands offer great sounds and features... I have found yamaha most user friendly.... Even though I have the S670... Which people seem to look down on.... I have tried many others... And I believe one should buy within their means.... And buy according to needs... I had the s670 for a little over a year... And I'm not bored with it yet (which is good going for me).. It is true that I have discovered some limitations on processing and editing features and storage capacity... But I think they come to light more in advanced operations.... For the price it sounds very convincing and is straight forward to use.. Although I find I have to change preset styles often to make them suit my songs better..... But  to buy keyboards which cost three, four or even five times more.. To have features which you may never need.... (And yes better sounds to the professional ear) is even more foolish... I would agree with one of the points, however, ref the feel of the keybed.... The s670 keyboard feels OK but a little noisy.... As can be said for some of the higher models in the psr range actually.. So if the feel is important look at the piano range that have good voices and styles... All the best in choosing the right one for you!!. Bob... Regards. Mike

[Noteplayer]

Well, I took the advice from some of you on this forum & bought a SX700 that was delivered today. It looks a bit intimidating at first but I have the rest of my life to figure it out.

One thing in my favor is that I have a good ear for music. I play a stringed instrument in weekly jams, so that plus my piano lessons many years ago will come in handy for sure.

I also think it's safe to say that I'll never need another keyboard again.

Thanks again to all for your help.

Bob

[Del B]

Congrats on your new board You will have many happy times exploring it

[Toril S]

Congrats Bob! Much fun ahead of you!