Author Topic: How do I play a G/A in "AI Fingering"  (Read 16956 times)

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janamdo

  • Guest
Re: How do I play a G/A in "AI Fingering"
« Reply #50 on: January 12, 2021, 03:39:11 PM »

Hoi Maarten

Bedankt voor je uitleg

Laat ons even zien wat er zoal mogelijk is met de AI fingering en hoe je er tegen aan moet kijken

Jan
 

Offline maartenb

Re: How do I play a G/A in "AI Fingering"
« Reply #51 on: January 15, 2021, 11:57:54 AM »
Could you give us an example to explain what instructional notes do, a little further?

Hi Jerry,

Five examples:
  • Cancel chord (i.e. c-c#-d or a#-b-c (notes from left to right))
    Plays a crash cymbal and stops all harmonic tracks (only drums and percussion keep running). These three notes make little musical sense.
  • C/E (e-c)
    The instructional note is the missing g. The non-bass harmonic style tracks will play as if you had played with the g note.  Same for C/G.
  • C/Bb (b(flat)-c)
    The instructional notes are the missing e and g notes. The style will play as if you pressed them.
  • F/G (g-g#-a-c-f)
    g-g#-a instruct the ACMP to play a g bass note and combined with c and f instruct the other harmonic style tracks to play an F chord. The g# in this case is an instructional note and not heard in the style.
  • "C/C" (c-e-g-c)
    "C/C" is not an existing chord, but I use the notation here to indicate that the extra c note (called "doubling" or "octaving"(?)) instructs the bass to play a c note and only a c note. You will hear this only with styles with a moving or walking bass line, for example Jazz styles. On the Genos, take ClassicBigBand for example. The bass plays with a C chord (c-e-g): |c c g g|c c e g| (repeat). However, when you double the c note, the bass will play: |c c c c|c c c c|, which can be very useful in some situations. Although the extra c is musically correct, I do see it as an instructional note.

Maarten
 
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Offline maartenb

Re: How do I play a G/A in "AI Fingering"
« Reply #52 on: January 15, 2021, 12:07:43 PM »
Hi Maarten

Thanks for your explanation

Show us what is possible with the AI fingering and how one should look at it

Jan

Hi Jan,

Since this is an English forum, please keep your posts in English. Then we can all benefit and respond to your question.


AI fingering is a clever way to enable you to play chords that would otherwise be very difficult or impossible to play.


Maarten
« Last Edit: January 15, 2021, 12:09:11 PM by maartenb »
 

Offline PhotoDoc05

Re: How do I play a G/A in "AI Fingering"
« Reply #53 on: January 15, 2021, 01:19:36 PM »
Hi Maarten,
Thanks for that great explanation! Makes good sense,
Cheers,  Jerry
"All journeys have secret destinations of which the traveler is unaware."—Martin Buber
 

Offline theoutlaws

Re: How do I play a G/A in "AI Fingering"
« Reply #54 on: January 15, 2021, 04:04:32 PM »
the easiest way to do this, is to use two hands:

left hand > for the tone A (perhaps an octave)
right hand > for the chord G-major

that´s it.....
 

Offline Fred Smith

Re: How do I play a G/A in "AI Fingering"
« Reply #55 on: January 15, 2021, 04:40:25 PM »
the easiest way to do this, is to use two hands:

left hand > for the tone A (perhaps an octave)
right hand > for the chord G-major

that´s it.....

And where do you play the melody?

Cheers,
Fred
Fred Smith,
Saskatoon, SK
Sun Lakes, AZ
Genos, Bose L1 compacts, Finale 2015
Check out my Registration Lessons
 

Offline Toril S

Re: How do I play a G/A in "AI Fingering"
« Reply #56 on: January 15, 2021, 05:58:42 PM »
We need at least four hands, would be great😀
Toril S

Genos, Tyros 5, PSR S975, PSR 2100
and PSR-47.
Former keyboards: PSR-S970.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCLVwWdb36Yd3LMBjAnm6pTQ?view_as=subscriber



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janamdo

  • Guest
Re: How do I play a G/A in "AI Fingering"
« Reply #57 on: January 15, 2021, 08:57:41 PM »
Hi Jan,


AI fingering is a clever way to enable you to play chords that would otherwise be very difficult or impossible to play.


Maarten
Thanks
Is it with the multi- finger chord mode it doesn't matter what chordshape you play ..they are all sounding the same
Example : a C triad and his two inversions sounds the same.

Is it with the AI- fingering mode that it does matter what chord shape is played ?
So A C triad and his two inversions are all three different sounding.

Then in AI fingering mode playing chords not possible in other  fingering chord modes 
« Last Edit: January 15, 2021, 09:20:40 PM by janamdo »
 

Offline andyg

Re: How do I play a G/A in "AI Fingering"
« Reply #58 on: January 15, 2021, 11:05:26 PM »
As I've often said, AI Fingered Mode is 'transparent' to normal chords, so you can play a C chord as C E G, E G C or G C E (the most useful inversion). You could even play it in open harmony as C G E, if your hand span is wide enough! AI doesn't mind how you do it, so you play the same notes in your chords as you would in Multifinger mode.

AI effectively only 'switches on' when you play something like C/G or a 'rootless' chord. Rootless? E Bb D will give you C9, and F B E will give you G13, for example. And if you want some exotics, take the opening chords of Somdheim's "The Ladies Who Lunch" from the musical "Company". F6/9 alternates with Cm9/F. Playing F G A C D, alternating with F Bb D Eb works well for this, though the fingering is tricky - 5 3 1 2, with 2nd crossing over thumb to play the Eb!

Maarten's F/G is a wee bit too complex for most players. If you just play G A F, you'll get F*/G. Not 100% accurate musically but close enough 99% of the time, and this type of chord has been regularly used by my high level students in their Diploma exams. If it's good enough to satisfy the sharp ears of the top level examiners, it should be OK for all the rest of us! :)
It's not what you play, it's not how you play. It's the fact that you're playing that counts.

www.andrew-gilbert.com
 

janamdo

  • Guest
Re: How do I play a G/A in "AI Fingering"
« Reply #59 on: January 16, 2021, 09:06:00 AM »
I was not clear enough i think
In AI mode you could play a inversion with two notes : root + 3th +5th  (C triad)
Also the same as in the multi- fingered mode, but there is no difference in sound for a C triad.

I tested with AI- fingering and i made also no difference in sound, so it is the same situation as with the multi-fingering , it doesn't matter for the sound
For Ai-fingering it matters only the way of playing the chord
« Last Edit: January 16, 2021, 01:17:21 PM by janamdo »
 

Offline mikf

Re: How do I play a G/A in "AI Fingering"
« Reply #60 on: January 16, 2021, 12:31:17 PM »
While it is true that AI setting provides some chord shortcuts for chord playing, I always thought the major distinguishing feature for AI was that it could work out some chords from what is being played in total ie the rh and the overall chord progression. Isn’t that the whole point of calling it an Artificial
Intelligence setting?
Mike
 

Offline EileenL

Re: How do I play a G/A in "AI Fingering"
« Reply #61 on: January 16, 2021, 12:49:53 PM »
I think a lot of us use this because for some it is easier than using the On Bass fingering if you are not sure of your inversions to give you the right Bass Note that will be written in music as a slashed Chord.

Offline mikf

Re: How do I play a G/A in "AI Fingering"
« Reply #62 on: January 16, 2021, 02:00:06 PM »
Yes, I get that Eileen. And it might be convenient but it’s hardly Artificial
Intelligence when the player provides the instructional notes.
Mike
 

Offline EileenL

Re: How do I play a G/A in "AI Fingering"
« Reply #63 on: January 16, 2021, 02:53:53 PM »
Well I think the original poster has had his question answered quite a few times on here and just what AI does in letting you perform Slash chords easily.

Offline panos

Re: How do I play a G/A in "AI Fingering"
« Reply #64 on: January 16, 2021, 05:37:25 PM »
Thanks
It was a question from someone else ( see first post )
But a descending bass with the AI fingering can be done with two fingers , but there is then no freedom of choosing a own chord
CM7/B - B/A-A/G-G/F- FM7/E-E/D-D/C....

Hi Jarambo,
CM7/B it can be displayed on the keyboard on the AI fingering mode if you push all the right keys
B/A it is displayed as B7 
A/G it is displayed as A7
G/F it is displayed as G7
FM7/E it can be displayed on the keyboard on the AI fingering mode
E/D it is displayed as E7
D/C it is displayed as D7

All the 7ths that are being displayed are correct, because these are the invertions of the 7ths many of us use when we play nearly all the chords in just one octave range.

Sorry but I cannot understand what is the problem although I don't think I would try to play chords like FM7/E.
Not in my level at least.I would definitely simplified the chord to just match with the notes of the melody at that part.
Maybe if I was just strumming a guitar in every beat I would play whatever unusual sophisticated chord.
But as long as you want to play any kind of chord in any kind of inversion just press all the right keys and add a piano sound to the left hand while you are playing along with the style.
Is there something that doesn't sound right to your ears when playing with the AI finger or any other type of chord fingering on your keyboard?

Offline pedro_pedroc

Re: How do I play a G/A in "AI Fingering"
« Reply #65 on: January 16, 2021, 06:10:11 PM »
Hello.

When I have to play a diferent bass in a chord, like G/A, I change to "Fingered on Bass" mode. Then, just play the bass key with the left most key. I always do that and works very well.

The problem is: When you change to "Fingered on Bass" mode, maybe your normal chords start to sound wrong, because you normaly play invertions...
To correct that, just a Tip: You can use "Fingered on Bass" mode in a few (or just one) bar. Just use registrations to change the Fingered mode. So, before the split chord, you can press a registration button and change to Fingered on Bass, make the split chord, and after that press other registration and change back to your normal mode. This way, you can go on with your normal chords until you find a splited one... Is better to press a registration button than play the entire song with chords you may don't know.  8)

Regards,
Pedro

Offline maartenb

Re: How do I play a G/A in "AI Fingering"
« Reply #66 on: January 19, 2021, 09:05:59 AM »
I always thought the major distinguishing feature for AI was that it could work out some chords from what is being played in total ie the rh and the overall chord progression.
You mean the full keyboard ACMP mode. That has nothing to do with AI, as far as I know.


Isn’t that the whole point of calling it an Artificial Intelligence setting?
The point of AI is that it takes the previous chord into consideration when you play an AI "shortcut".

Example: When you play a C chord followed by the notes b_flat-c (from left to right), you get a C/Bb. However, when you first play a Cm chord, you'll get Cm/Bb.


Maarten
 

Offline maartenb

Re: How do I play a G/A in "AI Fingering"
« Reply #67 on: January 19, 2021, 09:28:27 AM »
Maarten's F/G is a wee bit too complex for most players. If you just play G A F, you'll get F*/G.
Hi Andy,

Thanks for the tip of F*/G as a nice and easier to play approximation!

Another one is g-a-c-f-g which will give you Fadd9/G. You'll need larger hands and is still a bit complex to play.

It's just great to have these options.

Example: The song Piano man from Billy Joel has a chord progression: | F  F/G | C     |
First I played it with g-a-c-f (Fadd9/G) in Fingered on Bass mode. When I discovered it could be played with a "clean" F triad as F/G in AI Fingered mode I started using that. To my ears it suits this song better. (I will try it with F*/G soon.)

It's all about choice: what sounds best for a song and what suits your playing style the best.


Maarten
 

janamdo

  • Guest
Re: How do I play a G/A in "AI Fingering"
« Reply #68 on: January 19, 2021, 01:46:18 PM »
Hi Andy,



Another one is g-a-c-f-g which will give you Fadd9/G. You'll need larger hands and is still a bit complex to play.


The smart chord feature can be found on a psr sx600, but with this... complex chords (mainstream ) can be played with one finger for Jazz in any key.
F6^9 for C major and F7 for Gmajor  for example
A easy start for people who want to  play a jazzy song without first to study right away the advanced chords
 

janamdo

  • Guest
Re: How do I play a G/A in "AI Fingering"
« Reply #69 on: January 20, 2021, 10:07:40 AM »

Sorry but I cannot understand what is the problem although I don't think I would try to play chords like FM7/E.
Not in my level at least.I would definitely simplified the chord to just match with the notes of the melody at that part.
Maybe if I was just strumming a guitar in every beat I would play whatever unusual sophisticated chord.
But as long as you want to play any kind of chord in any kind of inversion just press all the right keys and add a piano sound to the left hand while you are playing along with the style.
Is there something that doesn't sound right to your ears when playing with the AI finger or any other type of chord fingering on your keyboard?
Thanks
It was about a descending bass example : C-C/B-Am-Am/G-F-D/F#-G-G7/F from Bach's Air on A G string
With the AI fingering : one wholetone below a root tone (bass ) gives a slash chord : C/B  -> B is bass note now
This chord C/B is a triad  with the C replaced by the b note ? :  : C/B is as notes : b-e-g  then?

I did made from the c major scale een serie of slash cords by pressing the white key below a whole tone, but in two case it was a half tone

How a particular chord is build up? : i could record a chord 1 +chord 2 form the acmp and see it in the score display..but i am not handy with this yet .
« Last Edit: January 20, 2021, 10:20:52 AM by janamdo »
 

Offline overover

Re: How do I play a G/A in "AI Fingering"
« Reply #70 on: January 20, 2021, 02:14:15 PM »
Hi Jan,

a "Slash Chord" always means the complete Chord (given before the slash) plus the Bass note (given after the slash) .

For example, "C/B" (spoken "C over B") means the Chord "C major" (the notes C-E-G, no matter in which chord inversion played) combined with the Bass note "B" (played below the Chord notes of course).


Best regards,
Chris
« Last Edit: January 20, 2021, 02:41:54 PM by overover »
➪ Everyone kept saying "That won't work!" - Then someone came along who didn't know that and just did it.
➪ Never put the manual too far away: There's more in it than you think! ;-)
 

janamdo

  • Guest
Re: How do I play a G/A in "AI Fingering"
« Reply #71 on: January 20, 2021, 06:24:42 PM »
Hi Jan,

a "Slash Chord" always means the complete Chord (given before the slash) plus the Bass note (given after the slash) .

For example, "C/B" (spoken "C over B") means the Chord "C major" (the notes C-E-G, no matter in which chord inversion played) combined with the Bass note "B" (played below the Chord notes of course).


Best regards,
Chris
Hi Chris
Ah now it makes it sense.
I was thinking on a inverted chord what has the same abbrevation for example  C/E , or not ?
Did not know this with a added bassnote , that's why  i could not  understand the  the C/B chord construction with 3 notes
 

Offline overover

Re: How do I play a G/A in "AI Fingering"
« Reply #72 on: January 20, 2021, 07:15:53 PM »
Hi Chris
Ah now it makes it sense.
I was thinking on a inverted chord what has the same abbrevation for example  C/E , or not ?
Did not know this with a added bassnote , that's why  i could not  understand the  the C/B chord construction with 3 notes

Hi Jan,

the Bass note (written after the slash) can be ANY note (a note that already belongs to the Chord to be played, or any other note which should be used as the Bass note at this point).

For example, you can imagine that the Chords are played by a guitarist and the Bass notes are played by a bassist. Both musicians can orientate themselves on such "slash chords": The guitarist "only" plays the Chords. The bassist also orientates himself on the Chords. However, when a "Slash Chord" is notated, he will play EXACTLY THAT Bass note. :)


Best regards,
Chris
« Last Edit: January 20, 2021, 07:18:20 PM by overover »
➪ Everyone kept saying "That won't work!" - Then someone came along who didn't know that and just did it.
➪ Never put the manual too far away: There's more in it than you think! ;-)
 

janamdo

  • Guest
Re: How do I play a G/A in "AI Fingering"
« Reply #73 on: January 20, 2021, 08:34:11 PM »
Hi Jan,



For example, you can imagine that the Chords are played by a guitarist and the Bass notes are played by a bassist. Both musicians can orientate themselves on such "slash chords": The guitarist "only" plays the Chords. The bassist also orientates himself on the Chords. However, when a "Slash Chord" is notated, he will play EXACTLY THAT Bass note. :)


Best regards,
Chris

Hi Chris,

I can see what bass and chords instruments are involved with tiny icons in sx600


Jan
 

Offline mikf

Re: How do I play a G/A in "AI Fingering"
« Reply #74 on: January 20, 2021, 09:14:48 PM »
Jan
 In music many things are about convention rather than absolute logic.  A slash chord is just a convenient shorthand way way of telling the player to play the chord with something other than the chord root as the bass. Is it an extra note or a replacement note? - it really doesn’t matter. Of course that new chord could also then be termed an inversion. But there is no convenient way on a lead sheet of transmitting to a player ‘play a second inversion’ other than writing it as a slash chord like C/G.
So what about slash notes that are not part of the chord. Well, theoretically, every note included in a chord is part of a chord. You just have to re-define the chord. So if I wanted you to play C/G#, I could probably say it’s a Caug. with a G# bass. I guess I could logically also call it C aug, 3rd inversion, but I just wouldn't because that would be cumbersome, unnecessary, a little confusing but mainly just because you don’t do that!
 Don’t tie yourself in knots trying to work out everything logically. That’s even more true of things like time signatures. Think of these things as shorthand notes you instantly understand because you have learned what they mean rather than something you can work out from basic logic. There is a lot of logic in music, but there is also a lot of just knowing what it means. That may go against the grain of your instinct as a math student, but it’s how it is.
Mike
 

janamdo

  • Guest
Re: How do I play a G/A in "AI Fingering"
« Reply #75 on: January 20, 2021, 10:58:27 PM »
Mike
Also in mathematics a symbol can have different meanings in a certain context, but it happens not much.
That's perhaps not ideal, but it somehow it is needed for some topics to be studied   
The reason for this is a interesting question for to try to be answered if you curious about this. 
 
Probably the same issue is in  music notation possible like for the slash chords
I am not a trained musician so it is a new encounter with a symbol

Jan 
« Last Edit: January 21, 2021, 09:08:20 AM by janamdo »
 

Offline SciNote

Re: How do I play a G/A in "AI Fingering"
« Reply #76 on: January 21, 2021, 03:02:16 AM »
Jan
 In music many things are about convention rather than absolute logic.  A slash chord is just a convenient shorthand way way of telling the player to play the chord with something other than the chord root as the bass. Is it an extra note or a replacement note? - it really doesn’t matter. Of course that new chord could also then be termed an inversion. But there is no convenient way on a lead sheet of transmitting to a player ‘play a second inversion’ other than writing it as a slash chord like C/G

...

Well, not to throw even more confusion into the mix, but I have actually occasionally seen a form of notation that indicates the inversion of a chord, and that is to have two numbers, one on top of the other, right after the chord symbol, that shows the intervals that make up the chord, the top number being the "span" of the chord, or interval from the bottom note to the top one, and the bottom number being the interval from the bottom note to the middle note being played.

So, for a C major chord, a C 5/3 (I'm just adding a slash because the text format here doesn't easily allow for showing one number on top of another, but in the actual notation, the two numbers would be one over the other, and there would be no slash) is root position, as it shows the "bottom to top span" being a fifth (C to G) and the middle note (E) being a major third above the bottom note.  C 6/3 is first inversion (the "span" of the chord being the E-to-C minor 6th, and the middle note (G) being a minor third above the bottom note.  And C 6/4 is second inversion (the sixth being the G to E span, with the middle note (C) being a fourth above the bottom G.

Confused yet :-) ?

But with the original question about the slash chords -- Yes, no need to overthink it.  The symbol on the left of the slash is simply the chord being played, as it would be played any other time with or without the slash, and the note after the slash just indicates what bass note is to be played along with that chord.  And it is typically used when the song writer wants to indicate that it is important to the sound and character of the song that a particular bass note is played along with a particular chord at that moment in the song.  And, as previously stated, the bass note does NOT have to be a note that would normally be a part of the chord -- and in fact, it often isn't, which is why the song writer wants to make it clear to play that particular bass note with that particular chord.
« Last Edit: January 21, 2021, 04:26:34 AM by SciNote »
Bob
Current: Yamaha PSR-E433 (x2), Roland GAIA SH-01, Casio CDP-200R, Casio MT-68 (wired to bass pedals)
Past: Yamaha PSR-520, PSR-510, PSR-500, DX-7, D-80 home organ, and a few Casios
 

janamdo

  • Guest
Re: How do I play a G/A in "AI Fingering"
« Reply #77 on: January 21, 2021, 10:37:42 AM »
Hi SciNote

Thanks

I think i understand now the notation for slash cords better: in all cases it is a bass note + chord played
Please don't say its not true  ;D
Jan
« Last Edit: January 21, 2021, 10:39:41 AM by janamdo »
 

Offline SciNote

Re: How do I play a G/A in "AI Fingering"
« Reply #78 on: January 21, 2021, 07:50:40 PM »
Hi SciNote

Thanks

I think i understand now the notation for slash cords better: in all cases it is a bass note + chord played
Please don't say its not true  ;D
Jan

It's not true!  Nah, just kidding!  Except that I would describe it as "chord played + bass note" instead of "bass note + chord played", because the notation is "chord played / bass note".
Bob
Current: Yamaha PSR-E433 (x2), Roland GAIA SH-01, Casio CDP-200R, Casio MT-68 (wired to bass pedals)
Past: Yamaha PSR-520, PSR-510, PSR-500, DX-7, D-80 home organ, and a few Casios
 

Offline panos

Re: How do I play a G/A in "AI Fingering"
« Reply #79 on: January 21, 2021, 08:45:35 PM »
Thanks
It was about a descending bass example : C-C/B-Am-Am/G-F-D/F#-G-G7/F from Bach's Air on A G string.
If you listen to the opening of the composition played by strings you will hear someone playing just bass notes(not chords) before the rest of the strings start playing the rest of the melody,chords etc.
So the one who wrote the sheet music you have and transposed the composition to the key of C, had to find suitable chords that would much to that bass notes playing.
The composition starts with notes from the C chord and then the bass is playing the notes b-a-g-f etc. while the strings keep the very first notes for very long.
So he added chords to these bass notes that make sense and as you can see he made sure that the distinguished "walking bass" would also be heard clearly.
If there is a slash chord that is not easy for you to play with all 4 keys you have to hit lesser keys but make sure that this chord notes will fit.
E.g don't play one of the middle notes of the slash chord and listen how the style is behaving.
You can always record just a really small part on a slow tempo as a midi song and then watch what notes each instrument of the style is playing by pushing play and speed up the tempo without having to save the midi song at all.
« Last Edit: January 21, 2021, 08:47:24 PM by panos »
 

janamdo

  • Guest
Re: How do I play a G/A in "AI Fingering"
« Reply #80 on: January 21, 2021, 09:02:42 PM »
It's not true!  Nah, just kidding!  Except that I would describe it as "chord played + bass note" instead of "bass note + chord played", because the notation is "chord played / bass note".
Me, i was just kidding too
I agree with you want to describe the slash chord on this way
 

janamdo

  • Guest
Re: How do I play a G/A in "AI Fingering"
« Reply #81 on: January 21, 2021, 09:08:31 PM »
If you listen to the opening of the composition played by strings you will hear someone playing just bass notes(not chords) before the rest of the strings start playing the rest of the melody,chords etc.
So the one who wrote the sheet music you have and transposed the composition to the key of C, had to find suitable chords that would much to that bass notes playing.
The composition starts with notes from the C chord and then the bass is playing the notes b-a-g-f etc. while the strings keep the very first notes for very long.
So he added chords to these bass notes that make sense and as you can see he made sure that the distinguished "walking bass" would also be heard clearly.

Thanks

I have enclosed a score of a  exercise for the AI fingering for people who want use this chord fingering method
I am using the multi fingering chord mode within the AI chord fingering mode and after a advise: i agree

Its trying out the AI fingering method  besides the multi-fingering method and it is a other style of playing 

Jan


[attachment deleted by admin]
« Last Edit: January 21, 2021, 09:17:14 PM by janamdo »
 

janamdo

  • Guest
Re: How do I play a G/A in "AI Fingering"
« Reply #82 on: January 24, 2021, 02:29:58 PM »
The descending bass playing in AI fingering mode in this example  is something different then playing Fingered on Bass
I think also in AI fingered playing inversion is the same as with Fingered chord mode : only the handpostion counts.( the chord sound stay the same)-> no i am wrong here

Its only with playing : Fingered on Bass to hear the real bass playing as i can see it now ..no must be also the same case as with the AI fingered on bass.

It is with fingered and AI fingered that handposition doesn't matter for the chord sounding: all the same
« Last Edit: January 24, 2021, 04:11:50 PM by janamdo »
 

Offline mikf

Re: How do I play a G/A in "AI Fingering"
« Reply #83 on: January 24, 2021, 04:07:41 PM »
I could be wrong about this, but  dont think the arrangers ever change the inversion in the body of the style regardless of the fingering mode. Its only the bass that changes with certain fingering modes.
Mike
 

janamdo

  • Guest
Re: How do I play a G/A in "AI Fingering"
« Reply #84 on: January 24, 2021, 04:17:11 PM »
I could be wrong about this, but  dont think the arrangers ever change the inversion in the body of the style regardless of the fingering mode. Its only the bass that changes with certain fingering modes.
Mike
Thanks

I think you are right : the sound difference between say  C triad and his two version is minimal to hear
Probably the arranger uses a default chord ( for to be sure i must look then for the stylesconstruction), but the added bass to a triad seems to me, make a sound difference. 
« Last Edit: January 24, 2021, 04:20:04 PM by janamdo »
 

Offline Toril S

Re: How do I play a G/A in "AI Fingering"
« Reply #85 on: January 25, 2021, 10:32:18 PM »
I don’t  hear any difference.
Toril S

Genos, Tyros 5, PSR S975, PSR 2100
and PSR-47.
Former keyboards: PSR-S970.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCLVwWdb36Yd3LMBjAnm6pTQ?view_as=subscriber



Toril's PSR Performer Page
 

janamdo

  • Guest
Re: How do I play a G/A in "AI Fingering"
« Reply #86 on: January 25, 2021, 10:58:20 PM »
I don’t  hear any difference.
Hi Toril

What difference you can't hear exactly?
Don't  know from you what can't hear

Jan 
 

Offline Toril S

Re: How do I play a G/A in "AI Fingering"
« Reply #87 on: January 25, 2021, 11:03:24 PM »
What you just stated, you play a chord in any inversion, and it sounds the same :)
Toril S

Genos, Tyros 5, PSR S975, PSR 2100
and PSR-47.
Former keyboards: PSR-S970.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCLVwWdb36Yd3LMBjAnm6pTQ?view_as=subscriber



Toril's PSR Performer Page
 

Offline jwyvern

Re: How do I play a G/A in "AI Fingering"
« Reply #88 on: January 26, 2021, 07:46:27 AM »
The only time you do hear a difference playing different inversions is when you use a left  voice in your playing and that  can add more "fullness" and interest to the sounds (eg. Bigband) if it can be done properly but of course the style carries on playing the originally identified chords with no change.

John
« Last Edit: January 26, 2021, 09:54:37 AM by jwyvern »
 

Offline Toril S

Re: How do I play a G/A in "AI Fingering"
« Reply #89 on: January 26, 2021, 08:03:52 AM »
Thanks John!
Toril S

Genos, Tyros 5, PSR S975, PSR 2100
and PSR-47.
Former keyboards: PSR-S970.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCLVwWdb36Yd3LMBjAnm6pTQ?view_as=subscriber



Toril's PSR Performer Page
 

Offline andyg

Re: How do I play a G/A in "AI Fingering"
« Reply #90 on: January 27, 2021, 09:53:51 AM »
Musically, C/A is Am7, even though the composer hasn't written it as such. There are plenty of mislabelled chords in sheet music. I've got one on the desk that describes the same chord in two ways - on the same line of music!

The A bass is the important part. A C will indeed produce A minor, so if you want to hear that G in the C chord as well, Am7 will give you that.

In any case, many of these chords are transitory and don't last more than a beat or two, so it often makes little difference to the overall sound.
It's not what you play, it's not how you play. It's the fact that you're playing that counts.

www.andrew-gilbert.com
 

janamdo

  • Guest
Re: How do I play a G/A in "AI Fingering"
« Reply #91 on: January 27, 2021, 10:51:37 AM »
What you just stated, you play a chord in any inversion, and it sounds the same :)

With this in mind.
Now i was interesting in the way how the yamaha styles are programmed : are chord inversion used in a style or not ?  :)
Can't find easy information about styles programming
 

Offline mikf

Re: How do I play a G/A in "AI Fingering"
« Reply #92 on: January 27, 2021, 03:55:29 PM »
Jan
You are getting confused between inversion and voicing. If the bass note is changed then it is already an inversion, regardless of the order of the other notes played. So when the style recognizes a different bass note it is already playing an inversion regardless of the order of the notes within the style.
Changing the order of the notes played is called voicing. The chord C for example consists of the notes C E G, but I can not only play them in any order, but anywhere on the keyboard. That is called voicing.
When you create a style you can of course decide what notes you will hear i.e. the voicing. So for example if you program a chord within the style on a pad or whatever composed of triad C E G, then that is what you will hear - relative of course to the chord you actually play in real time, and regardless of what voicing you actually use to play that chord. If you program EG C - or indeed any other collection of notes  eg C G (high)E , then that is what you will always hear when you play the chord C in real time, no matter how you voice the chord as you play in real time.
To allow a style to recalculate the voicing for every combination you could play in real time would be very complicated, and probably very messy. So the voicing in the style is set when you program the style and is not changed. But the bass note changes if you activate a fingering method to recognize the bass you play.
This whole thing is actually much simpler than you are making it. An inversion is simply a chord played with a different bass than the root. A slash chord is just a way of notating what bass to play. Is that always an inversion - no - because the bass may or may not be part of the standard chord. But what it is called doesn't actually matter - you just play it.   
Mike
 

janamdo

  • Guest
Re: How do I play a G/A in "AI Fingering"
« Reply #93 on: January 27, 2021, 07:10:11 PM »

This whole thing is actually much simpler than you are making it. An inversion is simply a chord played with a different bass than the root. A slash chord is just a way of notating what bass to play. Is that always an inversion - no - because the bass may or may not be part of the standard chord. But what it is called doesn't actually matter - you just play it.   
Mike
 
Thanks
Yes, was for me confusing the notation of a slash chord when the bassnote was not belonging to the chord.
Now i know it for the slash chord.
Must give new meaning onto a slash  chord notation.
I am also intererested how Yamaha styles are programmed in general. 

Did not a quick answer on this style construction build, but takes more time

Jan