Author Topic: Need help with Tonight from West Side Story  (Read 4821 times)

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Offline Fred Smith

Need help with Tonight from West Side Story
« on: April 01, 2020, 05:22:27 PM »
Now that I've been able to upgrade to OS V2, I'm looking at the Superior Pack playlist. I've chosen to work on the song Tonight.

The voices in the registrations are beautiful. The style is great, but the recorded tempo is 76. When I check out Youtube videos, I see mostly more uptempo versions, like around 160. There are also two versions of the words -- the Quintet sequence, and the balcony scene.

I'm looking for advice on:
1. What tempo to play the song at
2. Which lyrics to use
3. What registration to use for which parts of the song

Thanks for any feedback,
Fred
Fred Smith,
Saskatoon, SK
Sun Lakes, AZ
Genos, Bose L1 compacts, Finale 2015
Check out my Registration Lessons
 

Offline porterma

Re: Need help with Tonight from West Side Story
« Reply #1 on: April 01, 2020, 06:18:18 PM »
Hi Fred,
Here is an excellent YouTube video from Mike Mixon at Keyboard America: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zD-DN6-O3sE&feature=youtu.be
He uses two styles: Romantic Movie at tempo 49 and Rhumba at tempo 108.
But watch his full video and he shows you how he programs the whole song.
I watch his videos regularly and have his Book Bundle 3 so he emails me the music for that Bundle that he demonstrates.
Hope this helps.

Mark
 
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Offline Niceonetidy

Re: Need help with Tonight from West Side Story
« Reply #2 on: April 01, 2020, 07:39:13 PM »
Hi Fred,
Here is an excellent YouTube video from Mike Mixon at Keyboard America: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zD-DN6-O3sE&feature=youtu.be
He uses two styles: Romantic Movie at tempo 49 and Rhumba at tempo 108.
But watch his full video and he shows you how he programs the whole song.
I watch his videos regularly and have his Book Bundle 3 so he emails me the music for that Bundle that he demonstrates.
Hope this helps.

Mark


Mark,

Are these styles on the Genos, I cannot find them, can you help please
Previous, Technics E44, E66, U90, G7, GX7 G100, Tyros 2, Tyros 5, now Genos,

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Offline Fred Smith

Re: Need help with Tonight from West Side Story
« Reply #3 on: April 01, 2020, 09:50:15 PM »
Are these styles on the Genos, I cannot find them, can you help please

If you watch the video, he says these are user styles.

Now can you help me out with the song, as the thread title requests?

Cheers,
Fred
Fred Smith,
Saskatoon, SK
Sun Lakes, AZ
Genos, Bose L1 compacts, Finale 2015
Check out my Registration Lessons
 

Offline porterma

Re: Need help with Tonight from West Side Story
« Reply #4 on: April 01, 2020, 10:04:06 PM »
Yes, these styles are on the Genos.
"Romantic Movie" is in the section called Movies and Shows.
"Rhumba" is in the section called Ballroom.

Mike calls these user styles because he changes the OTS settings of the styles and renames them with the song title.
But they are really Genos (and Tyros) styles.
 

Offline panos

Re: Need help with Tonight from West Side Story
« Reply #5 on: April 01, 2020, 10:54:46 PM »
Hi Fred,
not familiar with the song but this is a song from Broadway.
So it has to be played by a Classical orchestra.
Not exactly the same one that Beethoven would use but a Classical orchestra of the 20th century: The american Classical/movie/Broadway orchestra.

So you need background sounds like strings,flutes and brass instruments.
No guitars,no drums,not a rock bass etc.
Otherwise it will sound just like a usual song(and not a Broadway song).

For the slow part indeed styles from the movie folder without drums and parts that have not a specific tempo should work.

For the fast part,even the classicalpop style has got these kind of sounds(parts).
Just keep the flutes and the violins.Delete the rest.
Search other styles in the movie category for some brass parts that fit while you are playing to assembly them to a style.
I would use probably around at 140 tempo for the fast part.
« Last Edit: April 01, 2020, 10:57:42 PM by panos »
 

Offline mikf

Re: Need help with Tonight from West Side Story
« Reply #6 on: April 01, 2020, 11:37:34 PM »
Fred
The quintet sequence is great but has a lot of recitative type lyrics before it breaks into the song. The traditional version is what I think you are calling the balcony version. There is an intro even for the balcony version which no-one ever does, and typically the lyrics people sing start right into ĎTonight, tonight, wonít be just any night ...í
How fast you want to play depends on the mood you want to set, I think about 120 moves along, but higher speed instrumentals also work. I like to do this a a concert style piano solo, start this piece rubato and pick the pace up to about 100-120, slow it down to rubato for a reprise of the middle section, (today the minutes seems like hours, the hours go so slowly .....) because it seems appropriate to slow this down, then finish with a flourish at higher speed maybe close to the 160.
Canít help you with the registrations set up as I donít have this.
Good luck, itís a fabulous song.
Mike
 

Offline Fred Smith

Re: Need help with Tonight from West Side Story
« Reply #7 on: April 02, 2020, 12:03:39 AM »
Thanks, all. Very helpful.

Pano, I've decided to use the registrations from the Superior pack, as they've done all the work, and I like their voices.

Mike, thanks for the suggestion to slow down the "minutes seem like hours part"

Mark, the video helped a lot. I chose his 106 tempo for the song.

My next problem is the chording. On my version of the sheet music, there's a sequence A A7 E7-5 D7. Aside from the fact I can't play, in time, a E7-5 chord, it doesn't sound right. What's a good substitute for a 7-5 chord?

Thanks,
Fred

Fred Smith,
Saskatoon, SK
Sun Lakes, AZ
Genos, Bose L1 compacts, Finale 2015
Check out my Registration Lessons
 

Offline mikf

Re: Need help with Tonight from West Side Story
« Reply #8 on: April 02, 2020, 05:39:06 AM »
Fred - There really isnt a good substitute for major b5 chord. I would often weave the flat 5th into my rh playing as a passing note rather than play in a lh chord. But if you are using fingered chords you can play E G# Bb to get Eflat5, ignore the 7th and then itís simple to play.  But I would play E G# B (normal E) first and just slip the B to Bb for a single beat to get that instantaneous disharmony thatís is intended by the flat 5 and it leads you back to D.
 I donít recognize the sequence though, and I know this song very well, having performed it a million times😀.
 The Original sheet music was written in G. Thats  where I normally play it. What key are you in ... I donít recognize that sequence, even allowing for possibly a different key.
In G ...here are my chords,
G A/G G A/G G Em F#m F
Bb C/Bb Bb C/Bb Cm D
Eb Ebmaj7 Cm Bbm A A-b5
G A G Em Bm Am D7 G.
I do use some 6ths, 7ths and 9ths when I play this which I donít show here, but these are the essential chords.
Maybe you can transpose to your key and try these. You still need a flat 5 but itís not the same sequence, and itís almost an instantaneous change, the flat 5 note last only a second or so, but it floats your key back to G.
I have to admit I was not too impressed by the video, I thought he missed several chords, but maybe he was simplifying for his students.
Mike
 

Offline frozzers

Re: Need help with Tonight from West Side Story
« Reply #9 on: April 02, 2020, 08:01:33 AM »
Fred

I just can't imagine it being sung at 76 bpm. Maria would have fallen asleep by the second verse.

Tyros5 MF version uses Rumba2 at 108 bpm. The OTS voices are OK with that version. I'd use the OTS1 strings as Variation D for a 'big' ending.

I play it with a Beguine style at 108 bpm but most 8 beat Latin rhythms work well.

You might want to try playing it in G major. Here's a link to my version:

https://1drv.ms/b/s!AiisGbr-EaJagqUHwA8Uq6tUyBbGmQ?e=ojTtOB

The A7b5, which I do think is necessary, is really easy to play if you're playing A7 as G A C# E. Just move your left thumb from E to Eb.

Cheers

Chris



 
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Offline Niceonetidy

Re: Need help with Tonight from West Side Story
« Reply #10 on: April 02, 2020, 08:50:27 AM »
Fred

I just can't imagine it being sung at 76 bpm. Maria would have fallen asleep by the second verse.

Tyros5 MF version uses Rumba2 at 108 bpm. The OTS voices are OK with that version. I'd use the OTS1 strings as Variation D for a 'big' ending.

I play it with a Beguine style at 108 bpm but most 8 beat Latin rhythms work well.

You might want to try playing it in G major. Here's a link to my version:

https://1drv.ms/b/s!AiisGbr-EaJagqUHwA8Uq6tUyBbGmQ?e=ojTtOB

The A7b5, which I do think is necessary, is really easy to play if you're playing A7 as G A C# E. Just move your left thumb from E to Eb.

Cheers

Chris

Thanks Chris,

I have the version from Wiki music sheets, it's in a different key, 

Fred where did you find your copy please?

Regards

Colin
Previous, Technics E44, E66, U90, G7, GX7 G100, Tyros 2, Tyros 5, now Genos,

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCNozAL1Whf-t4TJY5wPK57Q
 

Offline Niceonetidy

Re: Need help with Tonight from West Side Story
« Reply #11 on: April 02, 2020, 08:51:52 AM »
Yes, these styles are on the Genos.
"Romantic Movie" is in the section called Movies and Shows.
"Rhumba" is in the section called Ballroom.

Mike calls these user styles because he changes the OTS settings of the styles and renames them with the song title.
But they are really Genos (and Tyros) styles.

Romantic movie is a free play style without rhythm or percussion on my genos.  IS there something that needs turning on please?
Previous, Technics E44, E66, U90, G7, GX7 G100, Tyros 2, Tyros 5, now Genos,

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCNozAL1Whf-t4TJY5wPK57Q
 

Offline Niceonetidy

Re: Need help with Tonight from West Side Story
« Reply #12 on: April 02, 2020, 08:56:13 AM »
Thanks, all. Very helpful.

Pano, I've decided to use the registrations from the Superior pack, as they've done all the work, and I like their voices.

Mike, thanks for the suggestion to slow down the "minutes seem like hours part"

Mark, the video helped a lot. I chose his 106 tempo for the song.

My next problem is the chording. On my version of the sheet music, there's a sequence A A7 E7-5 D7. Aside from the fact I can't play, in time, a E7-5 chord, it doesn't sound right. What's a good substitute for a 7-5 chord?

Thanks,
Fred

Hi Fred,

Thank you for starting this thread. And please share what you are using when your happy with it.  I would love to ear it,

Kind Regards

Colin
Previous, Technics E44, E66, U90, G7, GX7 G100, Tyros 2, Tyros 5, now Genos,

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCNozAL1Whf-t4TJY5wPK57Q
 

Offline Fred Smith

Re: Need help with Tonight from West Side Story
« Reply #13 on: April 02, 2020, 06:30:07 PM »
I just can't imagine it being sung at 76 bpm. Maria would have fallen asleep by the second verse.

Tyros5 MF version uses Rumba2 at 108 bpm. The OTS voices are OK with that version. I'd use the OTS1 strings as Variation D for a 'big' ending.

I play it with a Beguine style at 108 bpm but most 8 beat Latin rhythms work well.

You might want to try playing it in G major. Here's a link to my version:

https://1drv.ms/b/s!AiisGbr-EaJagqUHwA8Uq6tUyBbGmQ?e=ojTtOB

The A7b5, which I do think is necessary, is really easy to play if you're playing A7 as G A C# E. Just move your left thumb from E to Eb.

Yes, A7b5 -- that's it! My version of the sheet music (which is in the key of G) obviously had an error in it with E7b5. And you're right, it's an easy progression from the A7. Thanks so much.

As usual, it's easy to determine there's an error, but it's very hard for me to figure out what the fix is. But that's the great thing about this forum.

Mike, when I was asking about a substitute for a 7b5, I was thinking of a m7b5, for which a m6 can be substituted, as they are the same four notes. I find I can play most m6's on the fly easier than a m7b5. But you're right, there's no substitute for a major 7b5.

Chris, I make my own sheet music, mostly by plagiarizing other versions. I use Finale to create a version of the song I can play (ie, the chords I can handle, etc.). Then I import that into SongBook.

Thanks again. I'll try to post the finished version when I'm done.

Fred

Thanks all for your help.
Fred Smith,
Saskatoon, SK
Sun Lakes, AZ
Genos, Bose L1 compacts, Finale 2015
Check out my Registration Lessons
 
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Offline mikf

Re: Need help with Tonight from West Side Story
« Reply #14 on: April 02, 2020, 07:33:27 PM »
Good Fred, seems you are OK now. The chord drops to G after the A -b5, not D7 though.
Its a straight descending bass line, Cm Bb A A-b5 G....
Mike
 

Offline panos

Re: Need help with Tonight from West Side Story
« Reply #15 on: April 02, 2020, 08:26:51 PM »
Out of curiosity just tried to see how this song it could go with a style.
I 've tried the violins of the Popclassic style on different tempos and seems to work fine for a more.... "Bernstein" version.
Actually I didn't know any of his compositions.I know him as one the greatest conductors ever.He is the orchestra's Big Boss "Arranger"!!
Now I have to find some other instruments to accompany the violins in some parts.

Thanks Chris for the sheet music.The key of G for a start, looks just fine for so many chord changing :)

As long as you are talking about chords may ask a couple questions about the sheet?
G to A9 and again G to A9 it is a repetitiveness and is not a good thing(except from today's 4 chords songs  ;D ).
I would preferred something like G to A7 and then G to A9 so to add something richer for the 2nd time.

G to Em7 sound closer than G to Em.So I would preferred the second chord combination.

F#m to F9 hm...I would preferred the F#m to B7 so it will lead me to just one semitone down so I can change the key to Bd.
That it would make sense to me, because going for the Key of G (which is the first part of the song) to the key of Bd (the second part of the song),I can't find a logical connection between those two scales.

Anyway....I just wonder if these kind of stuff make any logical sense to music theory.
« Last Edit: April 02, 2020, 08:28:46 PM by panos »
 

Offline Fred Smith

Re: Need help with Tonight from West Side Story
« Reply #16 on: April 02, 2020, 09:50:49 PM »
Good Fred, seems you are OK now. The chord drops to G after the A -b5, not D7 though.
Its a straight descending bass line, Cm Bb A A-b5 G....

Yes, I see your point. And I thought I was done with the sheet music.

Thanks for the tip,
Fred
Fred Smith,
Saskatoon, SK
Sun Lakes, AZ
Genos, Bose L1 compacts, Finale 2015
Check out my Registration Lessons
 

Offline mikf

Re: Need help with Tonight from West Side Story
« Reply #17 on: April 02, 2020, 10:33:55 PM »
Leonard Bernsteinís original chords are pretty well as shown on the sheet music. This may be the most innovative set of chord sequences ever in a popular song ....all kinds of unusual changes. Mess with it at your peril because you canít improve on perfection. F#m B Bb is a sequence that can work to modulate G to Bb ....but not in this song.
Very unusual harmony is normal for Bernstein who is recognized as one of the most innovative composers ever. His scores for Broadway Classics like On the Town, the amazing dance sequences and mood music in West Side Story were groundbreaking for their time.
Mike
 

Offline Fred Smith

Re: Need help with Tonight from West Side Story
« Reply #18 on: April 03, 2020, 03:27:22 AM »
Ok, here you go: Tonight

The link should take you to a folder which has rgt, pdf, musx (Finale), txt and wav files. Let me know if there's any problems, as it's impossible for the owner to debug access issues.

Some things I'd like to know more about how to do:

1. Have the ending end with the final drum note, rather than being followed by a voice fadeout, but I can't figure out how to get to it.

2. Copy a single voice, say R2, with all its adjustments from one registration to another. I can certainly set the voice in the target registration, but I don't know how to set all its effects. And while I can copy all voices, I don't know how to copy a single voice to another registration.

3. Understand why Mike Nixon recommends holding a single key while transitioning from one voice to the next (he puts them in red in his sheet music).

I enjoyed this project, and all the feedback I got. It certainly improved the final product.

Thanks again,
Fred
« Last Edit: April 03, 2020, 03:32:43 AM by Fred Smith »
Fred Smith,
Saskatoon, SK
Sun Lakes, AZ
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Offline mikf

Re: Need help with Tonight from West Side Story
« Reply #19 on: April 03, 2020, 04:53:16 AM »
Well done Fred. It was worth the effort! Much better and more authentic than the version shown on that video link that was posted from the music store. Nice full voices, and building nicely, I take it this was the Genos. Great sounding keyboard. Of course it always helps that it is one of the great songs of all time, but you did it justice.
Mike

NB ......on a very personal note, - we had a tradition in our neck of the woods for the bride and groom to sing at their wedding reception, and my wife chose to sing this song at our reception over 53 years ago. Quite risquť I suppose when you consider the lyrics ;D
 

Offline panos

Re: Need help with Tonight from West Side Story
« Reply #20 on: April 03, 2020, 06:21:30 AM »
Hi Fred,
for saving a single modified voice  to a reg button, save the individual modified voice on a folder(voice set-save) and then just replace the one on the reg you wish with this saved voice(voice part select,choose the voice,save the reg).
On Geno's should be something similar.
Never tried it but I think it should work and all the effects will be there,except from the "global" effects of the keyboard at that time.
Just remember not to delete this voice in the future.
« Last Edit: April 03, 2020, 06:24:48 AM by panos »
 

Offline Niceonetidy

Re: Need help with Tonight from West Side Story
« Reply #21 on: April 03, 2020, 09:04:49 AM »
Ok, here you go: Tonight

The link should take you to a folder which has rgt, pdf, musx (Finale), txt and wav files. Let me know if there's any problems, as it's impossible for the owner to debug access issues.

Some things I'd like to know more about how to do:

1. Have the ending end with the final drum note, rather than being followed by a voice fadeout, but I can't figure out how to get to it.

2. Copy a single voice, say R2, with all its adjustments from one registration to another. I can certainly set the voice in the target registration, but I don't know how to set all its effects. And while I can copy all voices, I don't know how to copy a single voice to another registration.

3. Understand why Mike Nixon recommends holding a single key while transitioning from one voice to the next (he puts them in red in his sheet music).

I enjoyed this project, and all the feedback I got. It certainly improved the final product.

Thanks again,
Fred

Brilliant Fred, thanks for sharing, that's really nice of you and great voices, registration too,

Many thanks

Colin
Previous, Technics E44, E66, U90, G7, GX7 G100, Tyros 2, Tyros 5, now Genos,

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCNozAL1Whf-t4TJY5wPK57Q
 

Offline murrayb

Re: Need help with Tonight from West Side Story
« Reply #22 on: April 03, 2020, 01:35:23 PM »
Hi Fred:

You can copy a single voice using YRM.

Load the registration as usual in the Load box
Open Registration Builder and open the same registration
Select the registration you want to update in the Load box
Select the registration that you want to copy in the Builder box
You'll see two new buttons, Copy Reg and Copy Settings
Click Copy Settings
Click Voice 2 in the Target
Click Voice 2 in the Source
Process
Save the bank

You may note that you can move voices around with this method also, copy voice 2 to voice 1,  copy multiple voices switching position 2 to 1 and 1 to 2. 

Cheers,

Murray
One can do without most things, but not without the pleasure of music.

Check out my Registration Manager at:  http://psrtutorial.com/util/best.html
 

Offline Fred Smith

Re: Need help with Tonight from West Side Story
« Reply #23 on: April 03, 2020, 03:59:20 PM »
Thanks, Murray. I figured YRM would do what I wanted, but wasn't sure there was a version which handled Genos OS2.

Thanks, Panos. Your suggestion worked. On a Genos, it's Voice Edit>File>Save. Now, any tips on how I end with a flourish, rather than a fadeout?

Thanks,
Fred

Fred Smith,
Saskatoon, SK
Sun Lakes, AZ
Genos, Bose L1 compacts, Finale 2015
Check out my Registration Lessons
 

Offline Niceonetidy

Re: Need help with Tonight from West Side Story
« Reply #24 on: April 03, 2020, 07:52:29 PM »
Okay Fred, that's really brilliant.  You've So what song are you doing this weekend, lol, hahahahahaha, maybe ????
Previous, Technics E44, E66, U90, G7, GX7 G100, Tyros 2, Tyros 5, now Genos,

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCNozAL1Whf-t4TJY5wPK57Q
 

Offline Fred Smith

Re: Need help with Tonight from West Side Story
« Reply #25 on: April 03, 2020, 09:25:36 PM »
Okay Fred, that's really brilliant.  You've So what song are you doing this weekend, lol, hahahahahaha, maybe ????

I remember a post from a long time ago where Gary Diamond said he learned one new song per week. So Iíve set the same goal for myself. Being in self-isolation was the impetus to get started.

Cheers,
Fred
Fred Smith,
Saskatoon, SK
Sun Lakes, AZ
Genos, Bose L1 compacts, Finale 2015
Check out my Registration Lessons
 
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Offline frozzers

Re: Need help with Tonight from West Side Story
« Reply #26 on: April 03, 2020, 09:33:04 PM »
Fred

You can manually stop the ending at any point by storing 'Sync Stop' selected in the final registration.

Just lift your left hand off the keys just after the final drum beat.

Cheers

Chris
 

Offline torben

Re: Need help with Tonight from West Side Story
« Reply #27 on: April 04, 2020, 04:30:35 PM »
Hi guys - actually I am not too impressed with Mike Mixons version... sounds partially as a funeral ... ;D

When I play "Tonight" I always use the style called "Adventure" to get a dynamic progression ...

Listen here (a very quick recording) for a few seconds and you can probably hear what I mean  :)

https://app.box.com/s/rdx3nh6o8v41b1m3k87n64svalq19bho

Torben.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2020, 03:29:50 PM by torben »
Tyros 5 was my choice - now it is Tyros 5 AND Genos !
 

Offline porterma

Re: Need help with Tonight from West Side Story
« Reply #28 on: April 04, 2020, 06:08:44 PM »
Thanks, Torben
Sounds very good!
Where is this style called "Adventure" from ?

Mark
 

Offline Fred Smith

Re: Need help with Tonight from West Side Story
« Reply #29 on: April 04, 2020, 07:27:02 PM »
You can manually stop the ending at any point by storing 'Sync Stop' selected in the final registration.

Just lift your left hand off the keys just after the final drum beat.

Great idea, Chris. Not quite as good as changing the style to produce what I want, but that's beyond my skill level. Sync Stop I can do.

Thanks for the tip,
Fred
Fred Smith,
Saskatoon, SK
Sun Lakes, AZ
Genos, Bose L1 compacts, Finale 2015
Check out my Registration Lessons
 

Offline Bill

Re: Need help with Tonight from West Side Story
« Reply #30 on: April 06, 2020, 03:36:25 PM »
Where is this style called "Adventure" from ?

Mark

Hi Mark

I did not listen to the tune Torben posted, but I have a couple of styles that may be relevant.

Bill

https://app.box.com/s/dtqgbj4199u1zpyytckr1icj8z28m00j
England

Current KB:  YAMAHA GENOS
 
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