Author Topic: Play channel notes events at double speed  (Read 784 times)

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Offline MusicMan

Play channel notes events at double speed
« on: February 26, 2020, 07:15:50 PM »
Hi

Is it possible to edit all of the durations and start times of notes events in a channel so that the channel can play at double speed... or half speed?

Thank You


 

Offline Joe H

Re: Play channel notes events at double speed
« Reply #1 on: February 26, 2020, 07:26:30 PM »
It's possible with some software sequencers for the PC or Mac.  It is probably called different names depending on the software.  I have an old Atari sequencer that I use with a software Atari emulator.  The program is called EditTrack PLatinum.

I'm sure there are more modern sequencers that will do this.

If you find one you can setup MixMaster to pass the style file or Multi Pad file to the sequencer for editing and when it is saved the file will be passed back to MixMaster where the style or MP format is restored so you can do a final save for playback.

Joe H
Music is the Universal Language!

My Article: Using Multi Pads in registrations. Download Regs, Styles & MPs:  http://psrtutorial.com/music/articles/dancemusic.html
 
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Offline MusicMan

Re: Play channel notes events at double speed
« Reply #2 on: February 27, 2020, 03:00:04 AM »
OK Yeah. I used Sonar as a GoTo editor from MixMaster and was able to halve the durations and start times and it plays back at double tempo. The marker are still in the same place as before. So I need to find a way to scale the markers. I'm experimenting.

Thank You
 

Offline MusicMan

Re: Play channel notes events at double speed
« Reply #3 on: February 27, 2020, 04:41:23 AM »
If anyone knows a way to scale midi note timing and markers or if someone knows of a midi editor that can easily scale note timing and markers, please respond.

Thank You
« Last Edit: February 27, 2020, 04:42:45 AM by MusicMan »
 

Offline Joe H

Re: Play channel notes events at double speed
« Reply #4 on: February 27, 2020, 05:07:24 AM »
If anyone knows a way to scale midi note timing and markers or if someone knows of a midi editor that can easily scale note timing and markers, please respond.

Thank You

Did you try moving the Marker to the end of the note sequence. In other words, if the original notes were 2 measures long... and now they are 4 measures in length, it sounds like you would just need to move the marker to the end of the 4 note sequence.  I really don't know if this statement is true, but it seems logical to me.

If you are doubling the time for just 1 channel then you would need to copy the 2 bars of all note data (along with any continuous controller messages as well) on the remaining channels of the style Section you are modifying.  You can do this easily with StyleMagic in the Piano Roll multieditor screen.

Joe H
« Last Edit: February 27, 2020, 05:12:13 AM by Joe H »
Music is the Universal Language!

My Article: Using Multi Pads in registrations. Download Regs, Styles & MPs:  http://psrtutorial.com/music/articles/dancemusic.html
 
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Offline MusicMan

Re: Play channel notes events at double speed
« Reply #5 on: February 27, 2020, 01:33:48 PM »
Hi Joe. H

Yes, I moved the markers in Sonar. I was just was wondering if there existed a midi editor that scales notes and markers in one step. I'll try copying in Mixmaster.
 

Offline Joe H

Re: Play channel notes events at double speed
« Reply #6 on: February 27, 2020, 03:43:45 PM »
I understand what you are trying to do. I don't know if there is a program where you can do this in one step... I doubt it.  It may be a more convoluted process than you would like.  Since I don't know what kind of phrase you are trying to modify or want to make it half speed or double speed.

I would like to do this myself in the future with arpeggios, bass and chord patterns but haven't actually tried it.  I don't think I have a copy of Sonar, but it's good to know that you can do that function in Sonar. What is that function referred to or called in Sonar?

There is another issue that may have to be addressed and that is setting the correct bar length for the Section after it has been shortened or lengthened as well as changing all the other channels/parts to make them all the same length.  StyleMagic will do this automatically I think since it is a style editor.  There is more than one way to do this.

My method (in theory anyway) would be as follows:

1. Export the loop from a style part or Multi Pad as a "clip" using MixMaster Clipper View (this would be in the form of a MIDI file)
2. Modify the timing of the MIDI file using Sonar or other software that is capable of modifying the timing
3. Load the modified MIDI file into StyleMagic or midi2style and convert it to a simple style file
4. Use Style Creator Assembly on the keyboard to import the modified clip/loop into an existing style.

Yes it would be nice if this could be done in a single program.  One Idea that comes to mind is to save up to 4 style parts and assemble them into a single a Multi Pad file, then modify all 4 Pads and convert the 4 pads into a 4-part style file for use in Style Creator Assembly.

It's an interesting idea and it sounds like you have made your way through part of the process.  If you are successful, please post your results here so I know how you did it. Sorry I can't help further.

Joe H

« Last Edit: February 27, 2020, 03:46:16 PM by Joe H »
Music is the Universal Language!

My Article: Using Multi Pads in registrations. Download Regs, Styles & MPs:  http://psrtutorial.com/music/articles/dancemusic.html
 

Offline Joe H

Re: Play channel notes events at double speed
« Reply #7 on: February 27, 2020, 04:12:09 PM »
OK, I've been thinking about this.  The simplest method would be to load the style in MixMaster... pass it to Sonar using the Go To menu, modify the timing and move the Marker, then shorten or lengthen the other channels to match the length... then save it back to MixMaster and do a final save as a style file.

Joe H
Music is the Universal Language!

My Article: Using Multi Pads in registrations. Download Regs, Styles & MPs:  http://psrtutorial.com/music/articles/dancemusic.html
 
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Offline Joe H

Re: Play channel notes events at double speed
« Reply #8 on: February 27, 2020, 04:51:47 PM »
What version of Sonar are you using? There are older (less complex) licensed versions out there for sale.

Joe H
Music is the Universal Language!

My Article: Using Multi Pads in registrations. Download Regs, Styles & MPs:  http://psrtutorial.com/music/articles/dancemusic.html
 

Offline MusicMan

Re: Play channel notes events at double speed
« Reply #9 on: February 27, 2020, 07:50:19 PM »
I don't think I have a copy of Sonar, but it's good to know that you can do that function in Sonar. What is that function referred to or called in Sonar?
  If you are successful, please post your results here so I know how you did it. Sorry I can't help further.

Joe H
Attached is the process I used with Sonar to double the speed and then move the markers. Sheet 1 has a chart used to calculate the new position of the markers, sheet 2 has instructions
« Last Edit: February 27, 2020, 08:08:01 PM by MusicMan »
 

Offline MusicMan

Re: Play channel notes events at double speed
« Reply #10 on: February 27, 2020, 08:03:06 PM »
OK, I've been thinking about this.  The simplest method would be to load the style in MixMaster... pass it to Sonar using the Go To menu, modify the timing and move the Marker, then shorten or lengthen the other channels to match the length... then save it back to MixMaster and do a final save as a style file.

Joe H

Dear Joe

The way you described is exactly what I did. Attached are the details on how I did it from a previous post in this discussion. There are two sheets.

I'd also like to mention that I download and checked out your "World of Dance" as well as your "Club Dance 2016" . These an absolutely amazing collections of Styles and pads. If you have any more upcoming collections paid or free please keep on you mailing list. My email is DiBraccio@AOL.com

Thank You
 

Offline Joe H

Re: Play channel notes events at double speed
« Reply #11 on: February 27, 2020, 11:40:19 PM »
Thanks for the compliment.

I don't plan on offering more styles because I'm mixing my styles now using several expansion pack Voices. I bought several packs from Easy Sounds and only use a few of the Preset Synth and Pad voices these days.

I found a copy of Cakewalk Sonar LE on a DVD that was laying around. I wonder if that version has the capability of changing the timing.

What should I be looking for in Sonar for that function?

Regards,
Joe H
« Last Edit: February 27, 2020, 11:42:53 PM by Joe H »
Music is the Universal Language!

My Article: Using Multi Pads in registrations. Download Regs, Styles & MPs:  http://psrtutorial.com/music/articles/dancemusic.html
 
The following users thanked this post: MusicMan

Offline MusicMan

Re: Play channel notes events at double speed
« Reply #12 on: February 27, 2020, 11:54:03 PM »
Thanks for the compliment.

I don't plan on offering more styles because I'm mixing my styles now using several expansion pack Voices. I bought several packs from Easy Sounds and only use a few of the Preset Synth and Pad voices these days.

I found a copy of Cakewalk Sonar LE on a DVD that was laying around. I wonder if that version has the capability of changing the timing.

What should I be looking for in Sonar for that function?

Regards,
Joe H

The function to change the timing of midi notes in Sonar  is Length. In my version of Sonar it's in the Process Menu. Process > Length. You select the midi clip in the track view, Process > Length. The tick both Duration and Start Time. 50% will double the speed.  200% will make the speed twice as slow.

The Length dialog box is pretty basic and should exist in most versions of Sonar. It might be in a different menu.

See screen shot attached

I you are interested in sharing any of you creations, let me know what Easy Sounds expansions  they need. I love your stuff and I will pick up the Expansions I need.

« Last Edit: February 28, 2020, 12:05:03 AM by MusicMan »
 

Offline Joe H

Re: Play channel notes events at double speed
« Reply #13 on: February 28, 2020, 03:52:10 AM »
I you are interested in sharing any of you creations, let me know what Easy Sounds expansions  they need. I love your stuff and I will pick up the Expansions I need.

I've got your email so if I get in a creative mood again, I'd be happy to share my styles.  BTW... I requested a new feature in MixMaster Multi Processing screen that now includes changing the pack Voice(s) LSB in style files and Multi Pad files.  I could see the problem of sharing styles that use expansion pack voices.  If I created styles using pack voices, there is a small chance that others who have the same pack (or packs) would have assigned the LSB the same number.

So being able to change the LSB for pack voices in an existing style file or Multi Pad would make it possible to share files that use those voices.  I appreciate the fact that Etienne was kind enough to implement that new function. It works great!

I will install Sonar LE and see if the Process > Length function is there.  I'm hoping it is because it would make things a lot simpler for me.  I like being creative. Playing is one thing but being able to enhance a style, Multi Pad or a Voice... is the icing on the cake.

Thanks for the info and screen shot.

 :)

Joe H
Music is the Universal Language!

My Article: Using Multi Pads in registrations. Download Regs, Styles & MPs:  http://psrtutorial.com/music/articles/dancemusic.html
 
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Offline MusicMan

Re: Play channel notes events at double speed
« Reply #14 on: February 28, 2020, 04:29:09 AM »
Joe

That's great that MixMaster can set the bank parameter. If you send me some stuff via email, I will have your email so I can send you some cool stuff I've been working on.

Attached are a few styles I created by midi quick recording MegaGuitar arpeggio. Then I used MixMaster in import the midi files into a style. They use Genos preset voices.

I recorded them using only 2 part  harmony to recreate how funk guitar (ala Nile Rogers) is played.
I put then in the upper part of the range.
and I made variations by copying and pasting in Step Edit in Style Creator. See my post: "Sharing a Technique for editing phrases" on how I create rhythmic variation for a style channel part,

Sorry the attached styles were not allowed to be uploaded.
 

Offline Roger Brenizer

Re: Play channel notes events at double speed
« Reply #15 on: February 28, 2020, 04:35:10 AM »
Hi MusicMan,

The information provided in the following link will explain how to upload your files to the forum.  :)

https://www.psrtutorial.com/forum/index.php/topic,53008.0.html
"Music Is My Life"
My best regards,
Roger

(The older I get...the better I used to be...LOL!!!)
Roger’s PSR Performer Page
 
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Offline MusicMan

Re: Play channel notes events at double speed
« Reply #16 on: February 28, 2020, 05:56:33 AM »
Hi Joe

Here is a link to some styles I created by midi quick recording MegaGuitar arpeggio. Then I used MixMaster in import the midi files into a style. They use Genos preset voices.

I recorded them using only 2 part  harmony to recreate how funk guitar (ala Nile Rogers) is played.
I put then in the upper part of the range.
and I made variations by copying and pasting in Step Edit in Style Creator. See my post: "Sharing a Technique for editing phrases" on how I create rhythmic variation for a style channel part,

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1XyRguJfu8MlQ_476Jjxg6mC_X6cep-DB?usp=sharing

Let me know if think they are useful.

Regards

Offline Joe H

Re: Play channel notes events at double speed
« Reply #17 on: February 28, 2020, 06:19:44 AM »
Got 'em.  I couldn't locate your thread.  Could you post a link to that thread?

Joe H
Music is the Universal Language!

My Article: Using Multi Pads in registrations. Download Regs, Styles & MPs:  http://psrtutorial.com/music/articles/dancemusic.html
 
The following users thanked this post: MusicMan

Offline MusicMan

Re: Play channel notes events at double speed
« Reply #18 on: February 28, 2020, 07:39:03 AM »
Got 'em.  I couldn't locate your thread.  Could you post a link to that thread?

Joe H

Here's the thread
https://www.psrtutorial.com/forum/index.php/topic,54041.0.html

Here's the technique
You can move the starting points of Style or Multipad phrases to any parts of the beats or upbeats.
1. Simply go to Step Edit and use Multi Select to select a Style or Multipad phrase starting at the first note of the phrase.
2. Then touch Copy.
3. Then use Multiselect again to select any notes events that you may need to delete to make room for pasting events to new locations.
4. Then use the time counter in Step Edit to move to the time location where you want the phrase to begin.
5. Then touch Paste. The phrase will be pasted at a new starting point.

This is a good technique for moving a phrase that starts on the downbeat on 1 to the “and” of one to create a different feel from an existing phrase. Good for rhythm guitar parts, EDM phrases, etc In this example you would move the timer to 001 : 001 : 960 which is the “and” of one and Paste.

You can do the same technique with any type of midi events.

Here's an alternate explanation of the technique
This entire operation is done in Style Creator > Step Edit.

In a nutshell, In Style Creator > Step Edit, use the touch screen arrows to select the midi note at the start of a phrase in a style part that you want to copy.  Enable Multi Select. Then use the touch screen down arrow to select the rest of the phrase you want to copy. Copy it. Move the touch screen time counter in Step Edit to the location you want to paste it and paste...voila ! the phrase is copied to a new starting point that you set with the time counter.  You probably need to delete some midi events to make room for pasting before you hit paste.

This enabled you to have a lot more flexibility than just being able to to copy whole bars. Copy any contiguous group of notes to any place in the timeline.

I hope this helps.
Hey maybe this is basic stuff that I just discovered. But I thought it was cool and I wanted to share it.

I got interested in trying to do this so i could make rhythm guitar strumming parts start on a different beat without changing the basic phrasing.... just move the whole phrase around.
« Last Edit: February 28, 2020, 04:30:58 PM by MusicMan »
 

Offline ckobu

Re: Play channel notes events at double speed
« Reply #19 on: February 28, 2020, 09:21:08 AM »
If anyone knows a way to scale midi note timing and markers or if someone knows of a midi editor that can easily scale note timing and markers, please respond.

Thank You

This is a quick and effective way to do it. You don't have to move the Markers manually, the PSRUTI program does everything in two mouse clicks.

https://youtu.be/wOfZAX381GY
Watch my video channel
 
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