Author Topic: Updates for StyleMagic and MidiWorks are not longer for free.  (Read 8713 times)

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Offline dsvroland

Updates for StyleMagic and MidiWorks are not longer for free.
« on: February 17, 2020, 05:39:27 PM »
Hi friends!

Does anyone have news about StyleMagic and MIDIWorks?

Now it looks like weíll only receive updates by subscription. I already sent an email to Tomaz, he sent one last update "for free". He still hasn't answered how much will it cost the subscription. I'm a little disappointed because when I made the purchase he said the updates would be free. I understand that he needs money to continue developing, but I believe that we should have a discount.

See the image on the website in English at the end "Free upgrade for holders of the full version as part of the annual subscription!"





 

Offline Joe H

Re: Updates for StyleMagic and MidiWorks are not longer for free.
« Reply #1 on: February 17, 2020, 07:30:05 PM »
Thomas' English is not that good.  I've received many updates for free and have not received an email that I will need an annual subscription.  I know he is working on an update currently with new features.

Yes... that message is confusing.  We will just have to wait and see.

Joe H
« Last Edit: February 17, 2020, 07:31:08 PM by Joe H »
Music is the Universal Language!

My Article: Using Multi Pads in registrations. Download Regs, Styles & MPs:  http://psrtutorial.com/music/articles/dancemusic.html
 

Offline dsvroland

Re: Updates for StyleMagic and MidiWorks are not longer for free.
« Reply #2 on: February 17, 2020, 08:31:37 PM »
I only received information about the subscription after sending him an email. For example, for the last MidiWorks update I did not receive it as usual (by e-mail without request), I only received the update because I requested it and he also confirmed that this would be the last update for free  :'(

The last MidiWorks update is compatible with PSR-SX keyboards.
 

Offline Gunnar Jonny

Re: Updates for StyleMagic and MidiWorks are not longer for free.
« Reply #3 on: February 17, 2020, 10:37:36 PM »
Quote from the first point at the FAQ site:

FAQ
What is the price of the software update?
Update software is free, for anyone who purchased a full version.

https://www.midisoft.pl/en/#strona-dn

« Last Edit: February 17, 2020, 10:40:20 PM by Gunnar Jonny »
Cheers 🥂
GJ
_______________________________________________
"Success is not counted by how high you have climbed
but by how many you brought with you." (Wil Rose)
 

Offline Pino

Re: Updates for StyleMagic and MidiWorks are not longer for free.
« Reply #4 on: February 18, 2020, 12:29:36 AM »
Thomas should employ someone that is a good English speaker, translator, good at marketing and making video tutorials in English and a better English user manual. He has very good products and Iím sure he could sell 10 times more with a different approach.

Iíve recommended his software to many musicians and almost all have come back with a negative view mainly because of the language thing.

I use StyleMagic a lot, I have spend hours on it, learning mainly by trial and error, but itís the only real program available at the moment, updates by subscription would be a "no, no" for me.

Pino

SX900 - Ketron SD40 - Maui 5s
 

Offline Joe H

Re: Updates for StyleMagic and MidiWorks are not longer for free.
« Reply #5 on: February 18, 2020, 03:07:45 AM »
Pino,

I share your experience and point of view.  If we have to pay for upgrades in the future, Thomas is likely to experience people are NOT willing to pay.  I think he is making a big mistake to charge for updates because we bought the programs with the understanding that all future updates would be free.

I assume he is working on a suggestion I made to him for Exporting and Importing individual style Parts in Channels Manager (like we can now do with entire sections in Sections Manager). I used the Google Translator hoping it would be more understandable and make sense. He liked my idea but he said it would take a lot of work because it would require saving the alternate channels (ch 1-8) not just the standard channels 9-16.  Maybe he is working on more than one new feature and feels that he needs to get paid for his work.  I agree with you that he needs help marketing his software.  I know he has a lot of users, but could sell a lot more with some professional help.

BTW... he asked me in the past to edit those English Captions for his videos.  At the time I didn't have a lot of experience with StyleMagic and didn't want to change the meaning of his words, so I did the best I could... but I thought it could be better.  I also edited his document for my own personal use, but I agree he needs someone who knows both Polish and English very well who uses his software and who could ask him questions and do a good job of explaining things.

Joe H
« Last Edit: February 18, 2020, 03:09:44 AM by Joe H »
Music is the Universal Language!

My Article: Using Multi Pads in registrations. Download Regs, Styles & MPs:  http://psrtutorial.com/music/articles/dancemusic.html
 

Offline dsvroland

Re: Updates for StyleMagic and MidiWorks are not longer for free.
« Reply #6 on: February 18, 2020, 05:34:37 AM »
Pino,

I share your experience and point of view.  If we have to pay for upgrades in the future, Thomas is likely to experience people are NOT willing to pay.  I think he is making a big mistake to charge for updates because we bought the programs with the understanding that all future updates would be free.

I assume he is working on a suggestion I made to him for Exporting and Importing individual style Parts in Channels Manager (like we can now do with entire sections in Sections Manager). I used the Google Translator hoping it would be more understandable and make sense. He liked my idea but he said it would take a lot of work because it would require saving the alternate channels (ch 1-8) not just the standard channels 9-16.  Maybe he is working on more than one new feature and feels that he needs to get paid for his work.  I agree with you that he needs help marketing his software.  I know he has a lot of users, but could sell a lot more with some professional help.

BTW... he asked me in the past to edit those English Captions for his videos.  At the time I didn't have a lot of experience with StyleMagic and didn't want to change the meaning of his words, so I did the best I could... but I thought it could be better.  I also edited his document for my own personal use, but I agree he needs someone who knows both Polish and English very well who uses his software and who could ask him questions and do a good job of explaining things.

Joe H

I indicated two suggestions to him, he liked it, however, he never did anything. 1. Do the multilingual interface (I said I could help). 2. Advertise and Facebook groups.

I also understand that he does not ask for much help, it is possible that he does not want to feel that he owes a favor.

Also the security part of the software I think is very good, there is no pirated version and I feel that what I paid was worth it. But reinforcing security also made it impossible to run his programs on any computer with Hyper-V enabled. I mean Hyper-V as a Windows Feature.

 

Offline Pino

Re: Updates for StyleMagic and MidiWorks are not longer for free.
« Reply #7 on: February 18, 2020, 07:21:08 AM »
I am happy with the USB security
If it was Ďcrackedí then there would be many free downloads on the internet and that would be the end of further "updates."
I travel a lot and always carry all my USB sticks with me,
You can buy second USB pass, itís not expensive,

Pino
SX900 - Ketron SD40 - Maui 5s
 

Offline Joe H

Re: Updates for StyleMagic and MidiWorks are not longer for free.
« Reply #8 on: February 19, 2020, 04:26:18 PM »
I sent Thomas an email asking him for clarification on the updates issue. The way I read that statement is that those who bought full licensed versions of the StyleMagic and Midiworks will continue to receive free updates.

Hopefully this will continue... let's wait and see!

Joe H
Music is the Universal Language!

My Article: Using Multi Pads in registrations. Download Regs, Styles & MPs:  http://psrtutorial.com/music/articles/dancemusic.html
 
The following users thanked this post: dsvroland

Offline Joe H

Re: Updates for StyleMagic and MidiWorks are not longer for free.
« Reply #9 on: February 19, 2020, 07:24:44 PM »
FYI... I just downloaded the StyleMagic v3 User Manual.  It looks like there is some improvement.  I think it would be nice if we could combine all the different parts of the manual into a single document.

Joe H
Music is the Universal Language!

My Article: Using Multi Pads in registrations. Download Regs, Styles & MPs:  http://psrtutorial.com/music/articles/dancemusic.html
 

Offline dsvroland

Re: Updates for StyleMagic and MidiWorks are not longer for free.
« Reply #10 on: February 19, 2020, 08:23:59 PM »
I sent Thomas an email asking him for clarification on the updates issue. The way I read that statement is that those who bought full licensed versions of the StyleMagic and Midiworks will continue to receive free updates.

Hopefully this will continue... let's wait and see!

Joe H

I also hope that updates will continue to be free
 

Offline eallan

Re: Updates for StyleMagic and MidiWorks are not longer for free.
« Reply #11 on: February 20, 2020, 12:44:23 AM »
Joe ,
The PDFs of the Manual that I have are from this download
https://www.midisoft.pl/en/hu/zasoby/stylemagic-manual.zip
The PDF files are all dated 10-03-2018.
Are the PDFs you have newer than that?
If they are , could you point me to where you downloaded them.
Thanks.
 

Offline Joe H

Re: Updates for StyleMagic and MidiWorks are not longer for free.
« Reply #12 on: February 20, 2020, 03:38:17 PM »
FYI...

I have been communicating with Thomas.  Below are the email communications between me and Thomas.

============================================================================

Hi Thomas,

There is some concern on the Yamaha PSR Tutorial Forum that we will have to pay for future updates on your software. 
Is this true or will we continue to receive FREE updates if we have already purchased a full program licensed version?

Regards,
Joe  Hlifka

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi Joe
 
Updates will be available free of charge as part of your subscription.
 
The subscription is valid for one year from the date of purchase of the license.
 
The subscription can also be purchased separately - I am in the process of calculating the price.
Maybe you can help me suggest something?
 
Regards
Thomas Szczepaniak


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Thomas,

I am confused by the annual subscription.  What if we purchased software several years ago?  Are you saying I will need to buy a subscription once a year to get the next update? What if there are no new updates in a year?

This is what people are concerned about.  When we bought StyleMagic and Midiworks we understood all future updates would be FREE.  Now we will have to pay more money for updates.  I think this change will upset many people who have bought your software already and they will NOT be willing to buy a yearly subscription for future updates. That means we would keep paying over and over again.

There must be another way of doing business. I would not pay for an update unless it is for a very small amount of money and I would want to try it out before buying it. I really like your software, but this change is not to my liking.  I think many other users will feel the same. I might buy a subscription one time only and never buy it again… ever!

How about charging for updates without buying a subscription?  In other words If users want the update they would have to buy the update. (latest version)  But if they are not interested in the update they would not receive it.

I will not make a suggestion on how much you should charge.  To be honest, I don’t really like the idea of buying a subscription, but I might be willing to pay for a MAJOR update for a small amount of money… just one time only.  I just don’t know… I will have to think about it.

Joe

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
I think you are confusing the license with the subscription.
 
The license is for life, and no one will collect it even in 100 years.
 
The subscription will include updates, maintenance of the full version on my server, help.
 
Now I have a whole bunch of phones from people who bought the program 8 years ago and I do not have time to develop the program, I feel like a slave who was paid 50 euros 8 years ago and I have to meet expectations.
 
Understand?
 
Regards
Thomas
« Last Edit: February 20, 2020, 03:44:02 PM by Joe H »
Music is the Universal Language!

My Article: Using Multi Pads in registrations. Download Regs, Styles & MPs:  http://psrtutorial.com/music/articles/dancemusic.html
 

Offline Joe H

Re: Updates for StyleMagic and MidiWorks are not longer for free.
« Reply #13 on: February 20, 2020, 03:43:36 PM »
Joe ,
The PDFs of the Manual that I have are from this download
https://www.midisoft.pl/en/hu/zasoby/stylemagic-manual.zip
The PDF files are all dated 10-03-2018.
Are the PDFs you have newer than that?
If they are , could you point me to where you downloaded them.
Thanks.

That's the latest... it's an update for version 3

Joe H
Music is the Universal Language!

My Article: Using Multi Pads in registrations. Download Regs, Styles & MPs:  http://psrtutorial.com/music/articles/dancemusic.html
 

Offline Joe H

Re: Updates for StyleMagic and MidiWorks are not longer for free.
« Reply #14 on: February 20, 2020, 03:45:33 PM »
Based on the email response from Thomas, I wouldn't be surprised if this is the end of StyleMagic and Midiworks development.

 :(

Joe H
Music is the Universal Language!

My Article: Using Multi Pads in registrations. Download Regs, Styles & MPs:  http://psrtutorial.com/music/articles/dancemusic.html
 

Offline WolfBack

Re: Updates for StyleMagic and MidiWorks are not longer for free.
« Reply #15 on: February 20, 2020, 05:23:33 PM »
I'm shocked now!
Thomas has decided to follow a wrong and dangerous path.
The same path that follows some programmers and developers (like the Collectorz.com over the last 4-5 years.).
You have to pay for a software that works forever... but you have to pay a fee every year for the upcoming updates and support.
That's ridiculous! I was pay 52Ä for StyleMagicYA 3 years ago, I did receive the update to version 3 (Genos compatible) and if I choose to buy a SX700 / SX900 (or any of the upcoming SX7xx / S9xx) I will to pay more for the same program? I don't get it!!!!!
The StyleMagic is a wonderful piece of software, but Thomas make a update every now and a couple of years. That's how he's confused about the calculation of the One Year Subscription.
Let's be straight: This program is not for all kind of people. The target group is very low to sell his software... and unfortunately... the end of StyleMagic is near...
Sad....

Make Music, Not War....

Antonis WolfBack (Athens, GR)
 

Offline Bachus

Re: Updates for StyleMagic and MidiWorks are not longer for free.
« Reply #16 on: February 20, 2020, 06:55:49 PM »
I guess the man needs to make money to live
And he just follows the rest of the greedy software market..

Want it or not, subscriptions are the new deal..
Keyszone.boards.net for all the latest keyboard news and information.
 

Offline Joe H

Re: Updates for StyleMagic and MidiWorks are not longer for free.
« Reply #17 on: February 20, 2020, 07:01:29 PM »
I guess the man needs to make money to live
And he just follows the rest of the greedy software market..

Want it or not, subscriptions are the new deal..

I think Thomas does some other kind of work for a living.  Software is not his regular income.  But it sounds like with the newer keyboards and update suggestions from users, he is feeling a lot of pressure to keep up with things.

Joe H
« Last Edit: February 20, 2020, 07:54:19 PM by Joe H »
Music is the Universal Language!

My Article: Using Multi Pads in registrations. Download Regs, Styles & MPs:  http://psrtutorial.com/music/articles/dancemusic.html
 

Offline Joe H

Re: Updates for StyleMagic and MidiWorks are not longer for free.
« Reply #18 on: February 20, 2020, 07:06:34 PM »
...  if I choose to buy a SX700 / SX900 (or any of the upcoming SX7xx / S9xx) I will to pay more for the same program?...

Right now if you download the StyleMagic v3.0.2 Demo, you can get the Voice definition files for all the latest keyboards including the SX700/SX900.  The thing that will be missing is being able to assign Insert DSPs for each style channel.

Just remember that StyleMagic has a great Voice Editor, Drum Editor and CASM Editor, so it's usefulness will not diminish.

PS: Several years ago I bought a backup license using a second USB drive just in case my regular USB drive fails eventually. Both StyleMagic and Midiworks will run on a single dongle.  This is true for both dongles.

Joe H
« Last Edit: February 20, 2020, 07:53:10 PM by Joe H »
Music is the Universal Language!

My Article: Using Multi Pads in registrations. Download Regs, Styles & MPs:  http://psrtutorial.com/music/articles/dancemusic.html
 

Offline ugawoga

Re: Updates for StyleMagic and MidiWorks are not longer for free.
« Reply #19 on: February 21, 2020, 11:17:46 AM »
Hi
Most programs like steinberg or whatever have a fee for major upgrade which i do not mind paying as we all have to follow the technology or become a ludite using a Pentium 4 or a ZX Spectrum. ::) :P ;D.

For Thomas programs a small fee would be acceptable as a lot of work go into these programs.

I would like some clarification on what the updates are though

All the Best
john
Genos, I7 computer 32 gig ram, Focusrite 6i6, Cubase controller, Focal Alpha Monitors, Yamaha DXR8 Speakers
Cubase 10, Sonarworks, Izotope.  Sampletank, Arturia and Korg software.  Now IK Mixbox
 

Offline Joe H

Re: Updates for StyleMagic and MidiWorks are not longer for free.
« Reply #20 on: February 21, 2020, 03:44:47 PM »
John,

Yes, this in effect is what I stated (above) to Thomas (trying not to be rude).  This idea applies to Yamaha arrangers as well.  If Yamaha would honor the many requests for specific updates to the OS (in the form of patches) then we could each get individual special features for our own needs by buying specific patches to add features. The thing is... does the Genos and PSR sx... OS allow such patches to be written/added?

Joe H
« Last Edit: February 21, 2020, 03:48:18 PM by Joe H »
Music is the Universal Language!

My Article: Using Multi Pads in registrations. Download Regs, Styles & MPs:  http://psrtutorial.com/music/articles/dancemusic.html
 

Offline Fred Smith

Re: Updates for StyleMagic and MidiWorks are not longer for free.
« Reply #21 on: February 21, 2020, 04:35:04 PM »
I guess the man needs to make money to live
And he just follows the rest of the greedy software market..

Want it or not, subscriptions are the new deal..

In fact, subscriptions are the new deal, not because developers are "greedy", but because they want to stay in business.

If you think their product is overpriced, then you should enter the market and compete. Think of all the money you'll make (assuming you're right, of course).

Cheers,
Fred
Fred Smith,
Saskatoon, SK
Sun Lakes, AZ
Genos, Bose L1 compacts, Finale 2015
Check out my Registration Lessons
 

Offline Wim

Re: Updates for StyleMagic and MidiWorks are not longer for free.
« Reply #22 on: February 21, 2020, 11:27:41 PM »
Quote: Now I have a whole bunch of phones from people who bought the program 8 years ago and I do not have time to develop the program, I feel like a slave who was paid 50 euros 8 years ago and I have to meet expectations. EndQuote.

If Microsoft does this with their Windows programs? I understand you are a one person business. I also know some small software companies. You get your updates and say a six months helpdesk. But if you want an extension for that you can buy an extra subscription for the helpdesk facilaties.

rgds Wim
 
« Last Edit: February 21, 2020, 11:28:42 PM by Wim »
 

Offline JÝrgen

Re: Updates for StyleMagic and MidiWorks are not longer for free.
« Reply #23 on: February 22, 2020, 07:26:04 AM »
Hey.
This whole discussion is basically about whether software development is your livelihood or your hobby.
I started developing software approx. 20 years ago as a hobby - an intellectual challenge. In 2005, I tested the possibilities of making one of my programs commercial. It did not succeed! The market is simply too small!
Instead, I have chosen to bring a smaller number of advertisements to my website and to receive donations. These two things do NOT bring in anything similar to salary for the hours I spend on software development. They bring in something similar to half a month's salary PER YEAR!
But this has paid for a new keyboard - right now a 6 year old PSR S750 - and a new computer more times.
I have no intention of changing that my 44 software programs are free to download and use. Software development is and will be a hobby for me!
I hope Thomas finds a model so he can continue out of the track he has chosen. But it sure will not be easy, if he will make software development to Yamaha keyboards his livelihood. Anyway, good luck Thomas.

JÝrgen
The Unofficial YAMAHA Keyboard Resource Site at http://www.jososoft.dk/yamaha
- since 1999
 

Offline ugawoga

Re: Updates for StyleMagic and MidiWorks are not longer for free.
« Reply #24 on: February 22, 2020, 12:35:43 PM »
Hi Joe
Does anyone know what is in the latest updates for Stylemagic and Midiworks.

All the best
John
Genos, I7 computer 32 gig ram, Focusrite 6i6, Cubase controller, Focal Alpha Monitors, Yamaha DXR8 Speakers
Cubase 10, Sonarworks, Izotope.  Sampletank, Arturia and Korg software.  Now IK Mixbox
 

Offline BenoitM

Re: Updates for StyleMagic and MidiWorks are not longer for free.
« Reply #25 on: February 22, 2020, 01:20:01 PM »
Quote
Quote: Now I have a whole bunch of phones from people who bought the program 8 years ago and I do not have time to develop the program, I feel like a slave who was paid 50 euros 8 years ago and I have to meet expectations.

The 'Pay once, free updates forever' model simply don't work. It can't, on the long term, for this kind of software in this 'niche' market. At first, it can attract some people, and create a good user-base, but in the long term the user-base tend to stagnates and the incomes are lowering year after year. New users (paying customers) are not enough to generate suffisent income for the developer to live (yes, surprisingly, everyone has to pay bills, even developers...  ::)) ... That's why he had to change the licensing model.  Existing customers saying that the developer is 'greedy' are even greedier by not understanding this, and expecting new features for free forever...

But I agree that, perhaps, the author should have clarified things from the beginning:
- 'Update' should be always free, but it contains only bug fixes or minor enhancements. (in software versioning : from v1.0 to v1.1 , or v1.2 , and so on ..)
- 'Upgrade' should be paid, as it often correspond to significant changes in the soft : new big features, complete redesign, etc... (in soft versioning : from v1.0 to v2.0, or from v2.5 to v3.0 , and so on ...)

If Microsoft does this with their Windows programs? I understand you are a one person business. I also know some small software companies. You get your updates and say a six months helpdesk. But if you want an extension for that you can buy an extra subscription for the helpdesk facilaties.

rgds Wim

As you said, there's no point comparing Windows and StyleMagic/MidiWorks (SM/MW).

Windows is a Platform, SM/MW is a software.
A platforms give the developer the tools needed to create software, it is an ecosystem.
A software brings functionalities to solve specific problems for users of an ecosystem.

Microsoft is the first winner when they announced that, starting from Windows 10, they would give upgrades for free forever, because maintaining old versions of Windows is a nightmare and cost a lot of $$$ (An O.S. in itself only gives basic functionalities to users, but it is a very complicated piece of software: thousand of engineers, hundreds of millions of lines of code, and so on...). If everyone in the world had the same Windows version, it would cost far less for Microsoft to create patches to correct bugs and security holes... Even today, Windows 7/8.x users can upgrade for free to Windows 10, if their hardware permits so ...

In fact, Google did it from day 1 with Android: they open-sourced a big part of the O.S. to allow third-party to create an Android-compatible customized OS. and they gave the O.S. - not really for free, but at a ridiculous cost compared to the building cost - to Smartphone manufacturers.
For google, creating and maintaining Android cost a lot of $$$ , they loose money on this, but they earn much more money by getting a fee on each sold app on they app store ! When you control the Platform, you are the master of the game. Giving the platform for free is a way to alienate the developers and customers :) (there's no such thing as a free lunch, remember ?)

For a professional single-person developer shop, it simply isn't possible to upgrade a soft for free forever. Because the costs of development are increasing with each version (because when you add a new feature you have to be very careful not to break existing features) whereas income are at best stagnating or at worst declining ...

Of course, some software are really 'free' to use and are regularly updated/upgraded by their creators, but those developers needs to find alternative solutions to have income (remember: developer, too, have to pay their bills !) such as consulting, or 'premium' paid versions...
And sometimes, very good free software are created by hobbyist developers, just for fun  :D  Most of the time, when its a hobby, you don't count your time, so you don't expect to be paid for what you've done...
But even for that kind of software, there are numerous examples of free software that became paying software at a certain time, either because to developer sold its product to a commercial company, or because the developer wanted to be full-time committed to its software... Sounds very sensible to me !

Beside this, a lot of people tend to misunderstand Software Development. They are willing to pay good money for 'real things' (ie: new keyboard, new car, smartphone and so on...) because they can touch them, but with software - since it is not tangible - they tend to believe it should be cheap or free forever... as if is created from thin air at no cost...

Creating software is *hard* and it cost - at least a lot of time - , and getting the knowledge on how to create (good) software takes time. (time=money, you get the thing ?  ;) )
What we take for granted is often not so easy to (re)create from scratch by a single developer. And because a feature exists in a software for a long time doesn't mean it is easy to do or replicate in another soft...

I can't count the number of customers that asks me to create software that can 'read the users mind'... Often they give me the same example: Google search can 'predict' (autocomplete and autocorrect) the searched topic -and for free - ! And they tell me that, because Google offers this kind of feature for free it should be pretty basic and cheap to recreate... My answer is always the same: "Easy to use - and as basic as it seems - doesn't means 'easy to create'. Google is a multi billions-dollar company, they have hundreds of thousands powerful servers around the world, and thousands of very qualified engineers to build the software that makes all the 'magic' happens. You don't expect your local Garage owner to be able to build a Space Shuttle from scratch just because SpaceX did it :)".

So, yes, everything has a cost, and developers are not different than you, they need money to live and grow their product.

"If a product is free, you are the product"   

Benoit

Offline BenoitM

Re: Updates for StyleMagic and MidiWorks are not longer for free.
« Reply #26 on: February 22, 2020, 01:22:47 PM »
Ho, and sorry for the long post !  ;)

Benoit
 

Offline Gunnar Jonny

Re: Updates for StyleMagic and MidiWorks are not longer for free.
« Reply #27 on: February 22, 2020, 02:36:24 PM »
It is big differences between updates and upgrades.
If pay 'full price' for a software, then bugfixes and promissed changes for the version when deal done should be downloadable or delivered free of charge regardless of time.
To charge more money should not be any issue at least until next major upgrade of the program. Then customers can choose if they want to upgrade or not.
When use subscriptions, the software should start at a lower price, and if subscription payment stop, the customer get no further updates.
It's fairly simple, but the major softwareupgrades need to be protected, i.e. by use of new serial, password, USB key or whatever method used to protect piracy.

« Last Edit: February 22, 2020, 02:38:37 PM by Gunnar Jonny »
Cheers 🥂
GJ
_______________________________________________
"Success is not counted by how high you have climbed
but by how many you brought with you." (Wil Rose)
 

Offline Joe H

Re: Updates for StyleMagic and MidiWorks are not longer for free.
« Reply #28 on: February 22, 2020, 05:19:26 PM »
FYI... Update on communications with Thomas Szczepaniak

After reviewing comments here and thinking about it, I sent Thomas another email.  I emphasized it is just MY suggestions and he should solicit suggestion from other users. I was speaking only for myself.

1. If he charged a subscription; and he could not lease a new update each year, I thought people would NOT buy another subscription.

2. As an alternative, I suggested that he raise his prices on his software and charge a small fee for updates. We can review the updates in the demo version. 

3. I said he should get suggestions from other users as well before making a final decision.

I also told him that I personally thought StyleMagic is better software than EMC StyleWorks for Yamaha which sells for 199 Euro.

Regards,
Joe H


Music is the Universal Language!

My Article: Using Multi Pads in registrations. Download Regs, Styles & MPs:  http://psrtutorial.com/music/articles/dancemusic.html
 

Offline Joe H

Re: Updates for StyleMagic and MidiWorks are not longer for free.
« Reply #29 on: February 22, 2020, 05:30:28 PM »
Clarification on updates vs. upgrades. 

All of Thomas' updates ARE upgrades with new features.  There are always improvements and I have never received a version of his software with bugs in it.

One of the best things about StyleMagic and MidiWorks besides all the great editors in these programs is his IDL Editor which allows us to add Voice Definition files for our expansion packs. And I thank Vali Maties for that; who has given us YEM Content Explorer which will generate Voice files for all of our packs that are compatible with Thomas IDL v2 Editor as well as MixMaster, PadMaker, and PadMaker-Midi programs.

Joe H
« Last Edit: February 23, 2020, 09:04:53 PM by Joe H »
Music is the Universal Language!

My Article: Using Multi Pads in registrations. Download Regs, Styles & MPs:  http://psrtutorial.com/music/articles/dancemusic.html
 

Offline Joe H

Re: Updates for StyleMagic and MidiWorks are not longer for free.
« Reply #30 on: February 22, 2020, 05:51:25 PM »
Hi Joe
Does anyone know what is in the latest updates for Stylemagic and Midiworks.

All the best
John

I don't know John.  I have made many suggestions over the years.  My latest idea is Export and Import individual style parts in Channels Manager. (similar to Export and Import entire Sections in Sections Manager)  He liked it.  This would allow us to save to disk any style Part and Import it into another style.  Similar to Style Creator Assembly. Someone else suggested being able to draw controller data in the multieditor (piano roll) with the mouse rather entering one event at a time. Other suggestions have been to be able to record directly into StyleMagic like a DAW. But I doubt we will ever see that capability, because StyleMagic is just an editor; not a sequencer.

I suggested in the past he include support for Multi Pads but he didn't implement it. Since that time I discovered we can load a MP into MixMaster and pass it to StyleMagic for DEEP editing, then send it back to MixMaster and save it.  If we change the extension from .pad to .mid we can load a MP directly into StyleMagic, there is also the possibility of converting the MP to a 4-part style and saving it.  Lot's of possibilities!

Joe H
« Last Edit: February 22, 2020, 05:53:04 PM by Joe H »
Music is the Universal Language!

My Article: Using Multi Pads in registrations. Download Regs, Styles & MPs:  http://psrtutorial.com/music/articles/dancemusic.html
 

Offline Gunnar Jonny

Re: Updates for StyleMagic and MidiWorks are not longer for free.
« Reply #31 on: February 22, 2020, 06:14:37 PM »
......... I also told him that I personally thought StyleMagic is better software than EMC StyleWorks for Yamaha which sells for 199 Euro.

So far I have not tried Stylemagic, and therefor cannot say anything abot what's best or not, but EMC and XT universal has been regulary updated since middle of the 90'ies till today, and I've never been charged for any extra fee.
That said, EMC may need to take some steps further into the new models, but I guess all audio stuff make a difference.

I can see Dan has gone the 'subscription way' with vArranger as well, but I still think both a relative high price at the product and then add subscription fee for support and updates may mostly catch the users that already have bought the software.

Probably not a fair comparision, but if i.e. look at MS Office. Buy it for a relative high price, and the price is for the pack and updates / fixes for a looong time. You will not get next major upgrade. If subscribe, no high start price, install pack at several computers for a monthly fee that is 1/24 part of the full pack. Always the newest and updated software.
That's the way more and more softwaresuppliers do it. Choose between buy a version, or monthly/yearly subscriptions to stay continious updated.
Cheers 🥂
GJ
_______________________________________________
"Success is not counted by how high you have climbed
but by how many you brought with you." (Wil Rose)
 

Offline Joe H

Re: Updates for StyleMagic and MidiWorks are not longer for free.
« Reply #32 on: February 22, 2020, 09:56:09 PM »
Here is the latest communications with Thomas:

Joe H

=====================================================================================================

Hi Thomas,

I’ve been thinking about your last comments. I understand what a subscription is. I think it is the wrong way to go.  There has been discussion on PSR Tutorial Forum about your proposed changes. As I stated before, if you don’t make an update in one year with subscription, people will NOT buy a subscription again. 

You would be better off raising your prices for your software. I think StyleMagic is a much better program than EMC StyleWorks.  StyleMagic has great Voice Editor, Drum Editor, CASM Editor, multieditor, Channels Manager, Sections Manager, OTS Editor, etc.

StyleWorks price for Yamaha version from EMC is 199 Euro. 

http://www.emc-musicsoftware.com/epages/62511965.sf/en_GB/?ObjectPath=/Shops/62511965/Products/stwxt_0001/SubProducts/stwxt_0001-0001

Here is my suggestion:

1. Raise price on StyleMagic to 100 Euro
2. Charge small amount for updates: 5 to 6 Euro (we can review updates in Demo Version before we buy)
 
You have great software.  Users want to see more improvements.  This is just MY suggestions.  Please ask other users for their opinion too.

I would be willing to pay a small fee for next update, but NOT a subscription. I think most people would EXPECT an update at least once a year with a subscription. If you cannot deliver a yearly update, I believe you will loose customers.

I wish you continued success with StyleMagic and MidiWorks software. Everyone understands the hard work that goes into writing software code and testing it.

Kind Regards,
Joe Hlifka

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Thomas' response:
==============

Hi Joe
 
In fact, you are right, I have rarely updated in recent times, mainly because the program is almost complete.
I have to think about it yet, your suggestions are good, but I don't want to raise the initial price strongly.
 
I'm finishing testing version 3.0.2 of StyleMagic YA.
Next week I will send a link to the update to all my clients (free of charge).
 
These are the improvements:
v 3.0.2
Multieditor - added new tools: eraser, pencil, selection,
Multieditor - added grid lines in the Control Change field,
Multieditor - the controllers selection has been extended (details)  for the Copy and Delete functions,
Main window - added SCP and FPS file formats,
Main window - added Slovak language,
Voice selection - added voice selection prompter,

v 3.0.1
Channels manager - added copying parts between sections,
Channels manager - added access to the CASM Editor,
Mixing console - fix problem with PLUS voices for S975 and S775,
 
If you know those interested, you can post it on forum on my behalf.
Thank you.
 
Regards
Thomas
« Last Edit: February 22, 2020, 09:57:14 PM by Joe H »
Music is the Universal Language!

My Article: Using Multi Pads in registrations. Download Regs, Styles & MPs:  http://psrtutorial.com/music/articles/dancemusic.html
 

Offline ugawoga

Re: Updates for StyleMagic and MidiWorks are not longer for free.
« Reply #33 on: February 22, 2020, 11:58:09 PM »
Hi
Do not bother with EMC Styleworks as I get excuses

It has stopped working for me since the last few Windows 10 updates .
This is over the top priced really and needs a major overhaul in my opinion
It used to work with just a few glitches ,but now i get a pop up box telling me

Invalid _Device name 263() WHAT DOES THIS MEAN???? :o and what can you do about it??? :P

I have a fast Windows 10 I7 computer with plenty of ram and no other software complains like this program.
I am finding Stylemagic more than stable. Rock solid in fact. The only thing is to make a style it is a little long winded.
Klaus needs to look into  EMC Styleworks. It was such an easy program to make Styles, but now utter useless to me and for well over £100 a total waste of time.
Still no word from Klaus to put me right . He goes on to say use the Winamp checkbox.
I do not want Winamp  as i have Yamaha drivers and that should talk between The Genos and the computer Styleworks
You do not need a sound box when just using the Genos and the computer.
For the price i paid for EMC Styleworks i expect more than just workarounds.

All the best
John

All the best
John :)
« Last Edit: February 23, 2020, 12:03:16 AM by ugawoga »
Genos, I7 computer 32 gig ram, Focusrite 6i6, Cubase controller, Focal Alpha Monitors, Yamaha DXR8 Speakers
Cubase 10, Sonarworks, Izotope.  Sampletank, Arturia and Korg software.  Now IK Mixbox
 

Offline Joe H

Re: Updates for StyleMagic and MidiWorks are not longer for free.
« Reply #34 on: February 23, 2020, 01:57:04 AM »
... I am finding Stylemagic more than stable. Rock solid in fact. The only thing is to make a style it is a little long winded...

I gave up on trying to make styles from MIDI files. I use StyleMagic as an editor only and to convert Multi Pads to style Parts that I can then use with Style Creator Assembly on the keyboard.

I looked at the v3.0.2 Demo.  Thomas has added a lot more controller options in the piano roll.  The pencil tool is nice too and there is an eraser.  You can draw controllers in with the pencil or use it to point and click adding just one controller event at a time with greater accuracy.  I'm glad the next update/upgrade will be free.

Joe H
« Last Edit: February 23, 2020, 05:35:47 AM by Joe H »
Music is the Universal Language!

My Article: Using Multi Pads in registrations. Download Regs, Styles & MPs:  http://psrtutorial.com/music/articles/dancemusic.html
 

Offline Joe H

Re: Updates for StyleMagic and MidiWorks are not longer for free.
« Reply #35 on: February 23, 2020, 08:41:56 PM »
I checked out the improvements for v302

These are the improvements:
v 3.0.2
Multieditor - added new tools: eraser, pencil, selection,
With the pencil we can now draw controller data in any style Part and also use it the same as the mouse to add CCs one at a time

Multieditor - added grid lines in the Control Change field,
This is helpful for placing single controller data and Voice messages for accurate timing position

Multieditor - the controllers selection has been extended (details)  for the Copy and Delete functions,
Many new controllers including Art1 and Art2 messages

Main window - added SCP and FPS file formats,
This refers to Open File Menu

Main window - added Slovak language,
New Language

Voice selection - added voice selection prompter,
This applies to both OTS Editor and Piano Roll multieditor... now we have access to our pack Voices too (like in Voice Editor)

It's icing on the cake!

Joe H
« Last Edit: February 24, 2020, 03:12:16 PM by Joe H »
Music is the Universal Language!

My Article: Using Multi Pads in registrations. Download Regs, Styles & MPs:  http://psrtutorial.com/music/articles/dancemusic.html
 

Offline dsvroland

Re: Updates for StyleMagic and MidiWorks are not longer for free.
« Reply #36 on: February 25, 2020, 12:51:46 AM »
Hello friends, I am really disappointed with this situation, but as I said at the beginning, I understand that Thomas needs to earn money and feel insentivated to continue developing the programs. On the other hand it is bad that we were notified from the beginning that the updates would be free.

I have been a user of StyleMagic and MidiWorks for 6 years, and in fact I still found a bug in StyleMagic converting a MIDI to Style, selecting for example the part of Main A, I switch to Main B, Main C, and so I finish, then I change my opinion and change the selected part of Main A, again I change my mind and put back the first selection (measures) I had made at the beginning, then the Main A is a little out of position when I press on Play to hear that selection. And it does not resolve to make Undo, this does not solve the problem.

Another part that would be good is to manually change position of the notes from the Events List, placing in a specific M:B:T.

I just have a big question, how the updates and upgrades will work.

With my experience at Musitek (SmartScore) I had a simple version, one day I wanted to switch to the Pro version, I had to buy each update and then the upgrade. The point is, if I don't buy updates for a long time afterwards, will I have to pay all of them to be able to have the latest version?

Cubase charges upgrades following the steps: 8.0> 8.5> 9.0> 9.5 and so on. Before reaching the major change, updates are free.

I believe that Thomas still has a lot to think about it.
 

Offline Joe H

Re: Updates for StyleMagic and MidiWorks are not longer for free.
« Reply #37 on: February 25, 2020, 05:49:22 AM »
Hello friends... I believe that Thomas still has a lot to think about it.

It's real easy to criticize... isn't it? (especially if you don't have all the facts and your methodology is a bit flawed)

::)

Joe H

Music is the Universal Language!

My Article: Using Multi Pads in registrations. Download Regs, Styles & MPs:  http://psrtutorial.com/music/articles/dancemusic.html
 

Offline Aquilauno

Re: Updates for StyleMagic and MidiWorks are not longer for free.
« Reply #38 on: February 25, 2020, 10:41:04 AM »
If I can add my insignificant opinion. I believe that Thomas cannot be made to weigh an error of evaluation after eight years of free updates, and we all understand that the commitment to keep updated and improve a program is a job that must be recognized and rewarded. But I think Thomas needs good advice now. When selling subscription programs, the price of the software is usually adequately low, this is to entice the purchase and the profit is based on licenses. However, these are products that have a large target (e.g. an antivirus) and therefore have a widespread and widespread distribution. In the case of Style Magic I don't know how much it could get with the paid license and how many customers it could lose ... thus obtaining the opposite effect. So it is important to understand what the right price of the software can be and what the license price can be (for 1, 2 or 3 years). If it were an acceptable amount of 10 or 15 euros, I think that if the program is as good as I seem to have understood then I would gladly spend them ... I had a look at the program it seems valid, intuitive and with a lot of potential ... Joe h in future I will ask you many questions about style magic ...  ;)
I have to understand if I can extrapolate the intro from my hundreds of midi files and how reliable the program is in the final result (.... Xxxxxx.sty)
Pietro
PS:
do not think about paying for the upgrade but think about purchasing a license that includes the updates .. the concept is very different.
« Last Edit: February 25, 2020, 06:49:20 PM by Aquilauno »
 

Offline Joe H

Re: Updates for StyleMagic and MidiWorks are not longer for free.
« Reply #39 on: February 25, 2020, 03:54:50 PM »
... Joe h in future I will ask you many questions about style magic ... 

I doubt that I will be able to help you. In the beginning I developed a template on paper and followed a method of incremental steps and saving the file after each step. (so I could go back if I made a mistake or changed my mind about something or work on the style over the coarse of several days) I don't make styles from MIDI files anymore. Making styles with Style Creator Assembly on the keyboard is much better than making styles from Song files.  Song files do not have the right phrases and chords and often are not in CM7 scale. Even with Styleworks from EMC (which is far more money) you cannot get good results... just simple styles.  It's way too much work for the final results achieved.

I now use StyleMagic as a style and Multi Pad editor. We can do deep editing that is not possible on the keyboard.

As far as Intros go... I like intros that I can play my own chord progressions.  This allows me to use the style for different tunes/songs without the intro influencing the rest of the tune/song due to predetermined chord progressions in the intro.

I will qualify the above statements by adding that I don't play covers of commercial music and don't entertain.  I mostly play (improvise) my own original music for my personal enjoyment.

Joe H
« Last Edit: February 25, 2020, 03:59:54 PM by Joe H »
Music is the Universal Language!

My Article: Using Multi Pads in registrations. Download Regs, Styles & MPs:  http://psrtutorial.com/music/articles/dancemusic.html
 

Offline Aquilauno

Re: Updates for StyleMagic and MidiWorks are not longer for free.
« Reply #40 on: February 25, 2020, 06:46:33 PM »
Thanks Joe for the clarification ...
Going back to Thomas and his decision I wanted to add that any decision he will make must consider who purchased the program, perhaps offering them a free license for the first one or two years. And then he decide if it is appropriate to lower the price of the program and focus on an annual license of 10/15 euros ... otherwise I am afraid that it will not have the desired result ... keep the price high and introducing a periodic payment is not a good idea ... it must broaden the base of potential customers and only two things can make it, a good price (that encourages the purchase)and  a valid and indispensable program for yamaha users.
Now, one of the shortcomings of the program is that, at present, given the limitations of the demo (saving the .sty file), you cannot verify the goodness of the program. Thomas must find a solution while maintaining protection from piracy ...
an example of what I mean:
I'm potentially interested but I don't know anything and I can't know the validity of the program for what it promises ... (conversion from midi to styles ... ) I managed to separate the various markers and the premise is good, but after? what comes out?  I can't know, for this I said I would ask you many questions ;)
 ...  the current version of the program does not help me.
the result is that:
for the moment, although interested, I don't buy it until someone who uses stylemagic YA answers my questions ...    I don't say it for you but to try to help Thomas.
Pietro
 

Offline Joe H

Re: Updates for StyleMagic and MidiWorks are not longer for free.
« Reply #41 on: February 25, 2020, 07:48:52 PM »
Pietro,

I respect your point of view.  You are coming from a place of someone considering to buy the program. What about those who already bought the program.  Why should Thomas lower the price, his competition is sellinig for 3 1/2 times the money and not as good. Most important he needs to find a better way to market his software to sell more copies.

1. License is currently good for Lifetime.

2. You can play your newly created style in StyleMagic without having to SAVE it.

3. I don't think Thomas is reading this thread so he won't know your thoughts.

4. Download the manual and you can learn a lot about the capabilities of StyleMagic

Joe H
Music is the Universal Language!

My Article: Using Multi Pads in registrations. Download Regs, Styles & MPs:  http://psrtutorial.com/music/articles/dancemusic.html
 

Offline Aquilauno

Re: Updates for StyleMagic and MidiWorks are not longer for free.
« Reply #42 on: February 25, 2020, 08:38:19 PM »
I don't want to have been misunderstood. If a program is valid, they are willing to pay it even 3 times more therefore thoughts are for the best for Thomas ... Thomas can make his choices.
Thomas is free to sell at the price he wants, but not take into consideration the comments made, which are the subject of this post, is not a good idea, it is my point of view that is worth as much as any other.
This means that I too can be wrong in my ideas. Also you too said that you do not share Thomas's choice ... I just thought it would be feasible with a lower price, it is true that the competition sells 3 times more but there are no subscriptions... Here because I explained why it should take into consideration a lowering of the price ... would make an annual subscription more acceptable (
and in my opinion whit higher cash return ...).
Thomas does not read this post but you represented to him this discussion about its program, I assume that there is a relationship of cordiality, I seem to have understood that thomas asked you for advice ...  not easy to make the right decisions but less easy is to  advise someone ...
I downloaded the manual and will give us a good read ... but if listening to the created style you mean on the PC is not the same as loading it on the keyboard ... but I probably miss something so I'm going to read the manual
...all the best for Thomas e for StyleMagic YA.


« Last Edit: February 25, 2020, 09:23:41 PM by Aquilauno »
 

beykock

  • Guest
Re: Updates for StyleMagic and MidiWorks are not longer for free.
« Reply #43 on: February 26, 2020, 10:04:26 AM »
There is a difference between an update and an upgrade.
Maybe Thomas has the intention to launch an upgrade ... ::)

Best wishes, Babette
 

Offline Pino

Re: Updates for StyleMagic and MidiWorks are not longer for free.
« Reply #44 on: February 26, 2020, 10:35:18 AM »
I am a big fan of this software, have no problem to pay some additional payment for a real upgrade.

I have been able to make song styles from prepared midi intros from my PC, deleting the existing intros in a Yamaha style and importing my own intros

The "MultiEditor" has been so clunky in the past versions, I hope now, with the introduction of a pencil, that we may be able to write in some Ďhi hatsí or other drum parts and be able to edit and add new parts to our styles, we wait and see.

Pino
SX900 - Ketron SD40 - Maui 5s
 

Offline valimaties

Re: Updates for StyleMagic and MidiWorks are not longer for free.
« Reply #45 on: March 01, 2020, 12:01:22 PM »

The "MultiEditor" has been so clunky in the past versions, I hope now, with the introduction of a pencil, that we may be able to write in some Ďhi hatsí or other drum parts and be able to edit and add new parts to our styles, we wait and see.

Pino

Hi Pino.
This instrument does not work for notes, only for controls. I have tried and does not work in notes area. I have told Thomas about this and it answered me with a very simple and bothered answer: "My beta testers have told me that it works very good" . I told him, that in this case, his beta testers have not test it as it must to...

Here is a video which shows what I said:

MultiEditor's new tools are unfinished IMO ...

PS: Enable subtitles on youtube video...



______________________________________________
Genos 2.0, Allen & Heath SQ5
My youtube channel - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCzi9PPrMTjN8_zX9P9kelxg

Vali Maties - Genos
 

Offline Joe H

Re: Updates for StyleMagic and MidiWorks are not longer for free.
« Reply #46 on: March 01, 2020, 04:07:52 PM »
Vali,

I think the Pencil gives greater accuracy than the mouse pointer.  I can place both notes and controller messages much better with the Pencil.  But dragging the Pencil is a problem. It's not good for that kind of operation... too many MIDI events.  Maybe Thomas could lower the resolution for dragging the Pencil. Make a User defined resolution to suit our own personal needs.

Joe H
« Last Edit: March 01, 2020, 04:10:46 PM by Joe H »
Music is the Universal Language!

My Article: Using Multi Pads in registrations. Download Regs, Styles & MPs:  http://psrtutorial.com/music/articles/dancemusic.html
 

Offline Pino

Re: Updates for StyleMagic and MidiWorks are not longer for free.
« Reply #47 on: March 01, 2020, 05:25:48 PM »
Disappointing, with a pencil to draw notes this program could have become a "must have" for editing YAMAHA style.

Without that thereís nothing much new for me,

oh well,  - Now the excitement has gone, - 👹
SX900 - Ketron SD40 - Maui 5s
 

Offline valimaties

Re: Updates for StyleMagic and MidiWorks are not longer for free.
« Reply #48 on: March 01, 2020, 05:33:53 PM »
Vali,

I think the Pencil gives greater accuracy than the mouse pointer.  I can place both notes and controller messages much better with the Pencil.  But dragging the Pencil is a problem. It's not good for that kind of operation... too many MIDI events.  Maybe Thomas could lower the resolution for dragging the Pencil. Make a User defined resolution to suit our own personal needs.

Joe H

Hi Joe...

I also gave him the idea to let user click two points (holding CTRL) and program to be able to draw itself a line of events from the point A to point B. I don't think is such a huge math calc :)
Yes it is a better solution, but it also can be improved as most of DAWs action ;) That is what I want him to understand.

There is also a missing of wheel event on that screen. It is very annoying that mouse wheel does not do anything in that screen and you have to use that up-down and right-left button switch ... Why?  :o

Regards,
Vali
______________________________________________
Genos 2.0, Allen & Heath SQ5
My youtube channel - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCzi9PPrMTjN8_zX9P9kelxg

Vali Maties - Genos
 

Offline rikkisbears

Re: Updates for StyleMagic and MidiWorks are not longer for free.
« Reply #49 on: March 02, 2020, 09:42:49 PM »
Hi,
I bought Style Magic a few months ago , when I bought my SX900.
To be quite honest, havenít used it yet. I will if I decide to do a lot more style editing than I currently am.
Prefer to use the onboard style assembly function.
For note editing, I use Jorgenís Split and Splice program in conjunction with XGWorks. So far so good.
Next test will be if I can actually replace an intro with a midi file intro using just xg works and split and splice.

For multi pads , Iíve just started using XG works on its own. Wanted to turn some of the style arpeggios into pads. Seems to have worked.

Donít really have a hassle with someone charging  for an upgrade, an update, though, if itís just to fix existing bugs, I would.
Best wishes
Rikki

SX 900
VArranger & Ketron Sd2
Band in a Box 2020