Author Topic: Wish-Request for next Update for Genos: "TERCA"  (Read 29777 times)

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Offline metcam

Wish-Request for next Update for Genos: "TERCA"
« on: October 30, 2018, 10:47:19 AM »
Tuning
Scale tune:

Please Yamaha give to us options for R1  R2  R3 to have check mark thogether or separate.

Right now is only one check mark for all Right parts.

We need:

 individual check mark for R1
 Individual check mark for R2
 Individual check mark for R3

and ALSO for TRANSPOSE:

individual check mark for R1
 Individual check mark for R2
 Individual check mark for R3

In that case we will be able to create Balkan-Eastern Europe harmony called "TERCA" which is very important for as who play that kind of music.

Thank you very much Yamaha. 





 


 
« Last Edit: November 14, 2018, 12:12:54 AM by metcam »
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Offline valimaties

Re: Wish-Request for next Update for Genos
« Reply #1 on: October 30, 2018, 11:07:06 AM »
Hi metcam.

You can do that in YEM Voice Editor, by making different vce files for each voice and transposition. More than that, a TERCA does not sound good using standard transposition for all notes, so your request is not so good. Terca has to follow also the type of your melody, if it is in harmonic scale, or melodic scale... Search for "Daniel Andronescu" videos on youtube. I think he has explained (in romanian) but you can see how he made this thing on Korg (He represents Korg for Romania)...

BTW, we also use a lot Terta (Terca) in our country ;)

Regards,
Vali
______________________________________________
Genos 2.0, Allen & Heath SQ5
My youtube channel - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCzi9PPrMTjN8_zX9P9kelxg

Vali Maties - Genos
 

Offline metcam

Re: Wish-Request for next Update for Genos
« Reply #2 on: October 30, 2018, 12:10:30 PM »
Hi Vali

In YEM so far we can do only with external samples (load sampled "Terca")

With internal voices is NOT possible.

IF Yamaha update this:

individual check mark for R1
 Individual check mark for R2
 Individual check mark for R3

and ALSO for TRANSPOSE:

individual check mark for R1
 Individual check mark for R2
 Individual check mark for R3

Than we can make "Terca" together with some adjusting in YEM  ( +50 , -50  etc. )

There is diferente way on Montage  but I don't think Yamaha will put that in Genos.


Regards
Curent Instruments: GENOS the best of the best and sx900
Previus instruments:PSR-A3000,PSR9000,Tyros2,Tyros3,TYROS5,psr2000,psr2100,psr1500,psr530,psr OR700,DX7,DX11,V50,DX21.
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Offline DerekA

Re: Wish-Request for next Update for Genos
« Reply #3 on: October 30, 2018, 01:28:38 PM »

More than that, a TERCA does not sound good using standard transposition for all notes, so your request is not so good. Terca has to follow also the type of your melody, if it is in harmonic scale, or melodic scale... Search for "Daniel Andronescu" videos on youtube. I think he has explained (in romanian) but you can see how he made this thing on Korg (He represents Korg for Romania)...

BTW, we also use a lot Terta (Terca) in our country ;)

Regards,
Vali

Just being curious. Would this be more of a "harmony" option (along the lines of country duet) than a fixed transposition?
Genos
 

Offline metcam

Re: Wish-Request for next Update for Genos
« Reply #4 on: October 30, 2018, 01:43:56 PM »
Just being curious. Would this be more of a "harmony" option (along the lines of country duet) than a fixed transposition?

Yes is Type of Harmony.


Regards
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Offline metcam

Re: Wish-Request for next Update for Genos
« Reply #5 on: October 30, 2018, 01:55:42 PM »
Hi metcam.

 a TERCA does not sound good using standard transposition for all notes,

Regards,
Vali

Hi Vali

As I put Request for transpose ,also I put request for individual scale tune. You right that Terca not sound good using only Transpose ,,but using Transpose and scale Tune  will be a Bingo.


Regards
Curent Instruments: GENOS the best of the best and sx900
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Offline valimaties

Re: Wish-Request for next Update for Genos
« Reply #6 on: October 30, 2018, 03:11:25 PM »
Hi Vali

As I put Request for transpose ,also I put request for individual scale tune. You right that Terca not sound good using only Transpose ,,but using Transpose and scale Tune  will be a Bingo.


Regards

Yes, indeed... But I think it is hard to implement such an algorithm to play in realtime... Terta, in "real life", is bound by some of the chords, not all chords, is basically a second player which sing the same melody line notes, transposed, and trigger somehow to the basic chord of the song. Only sometimes changes the scale. And also, as I said, it depends on what type of scale is your song (basically): harmonic minor, melodic minor, minor, Major etc.
I love to see this, it will be the first arranger in the world which do that thing :)

Just being curious. Would this be more of a "harmony" option (along the lines of country duet) than a fixed transposition?

Country harmony is not like Terţa (Terca). This type of harmony is a combination between transposition and scale tune, as metcam suggests, but is not only this thing. It must be some additionally parameters, too.

Best regards,
Vali
______________________________________________
Genos 2.0, Allen & Heath SQ5
My youtube channel - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCzi9PPrMTjN8_zX9P9kelxg

Vali Maties - Genos
 

Offline BenoitM

Re: Wish-Request for next Update for Genos
« Reply #7 on: October 30, 2018, 07:14:14 PM »
And if they could also improve the multiple insertion effects (DSP) management, it would be great… :/

Offline Seagull29

Re: Wish-Request for next Update for Genos
« Reply #8 on: October 30, 2018, 07:41:38 PM »
Hi,
and also taking into account, in the style creator, the CC64 (sustain) to finally be able to play pianistically when creating a personal style! Eventually also in T5 ! 8)

Regards
 

Offline valimaties

Re: Wish-Request for next Update for Genos
« Reply #9 on: October 31, 2018, 07:19:34 AM »
Hi,
and also taking into account, in the style creator, the CC64 (sustain) to finally be able to play pianistically when creating a personal style! Eventually also in T5 ! 8)

Regards

Amen, brother!!! I'm waiting for this control since I had Tyros 2... :(

Regards,
Vali
______________________________________________
Genos 2.0, Allen & Heath SQ5
My youtube channel - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCzi9PPrMTjN8_zX9P9kelxg

Vali Maties - Genos
 

Offline metcam

Re: Wish-Request for next Update for Genos
« Reply #10 on: November 01, 2018, 11:51:37 AM »
Yes,  harmonic minor, melodic minor, minor, Major etc.
I love to see this, it will be the first arranger in the world which do that thing :)


Best regards,
Vali

Me too Vali me too. It is very simple for Yamaha to implement this into arranger.  30 years ago was in DX 11,V50 etc why can't be now?

Regards
Curent Instruments: GENOS the best of the best and sx900
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Online ckobu

Re: Wish-Request for next Update for Genos
« Reply #11 on: November 03, 2018, 12:36:34 PM »
Hi Vali

In YEM so far we can do only with external samples (load sampled "Terca")

With internal voices is NOT possible.

IF Yamaha update this:

individual check mark for R1
 Individual check mark for R2
 Individual check mark for R3

and ALSO for TRANSPOSE:

individual check mark for R1
 Individual check mark for R2
 Individual check mark for R3

Than we can make "Terca" together with some adjusting in YEM  ( +50 , -50  etc. )

There is diferente way on Montage  but I don't think Yamaha will put that in Genos.


Regards

This would be a great addition to creating TERCA and players who use them for their style of play. However, you need to add a transposer and separate Right 1, 2, 3. It is still necessary to make Voices Presets editable in YEM.

I have a better and simpler solution. Yamaha could add one new function to the Tuning menu, named Note Shift. And separate RIGHT1,2,3. As you adjust the Scale and move +/- 64 cents, you could adjust half a ton for each note -/+ 12. So you can work in Genos directly to TERCE. You could then use preset and custom sound, and without using YEM you can easily create all the necessary variations. In this way, you could effortlessly create your own HARMONY for each specific song and tonality.

Regards
Watch my video channel
 
The following users thanked this post: metcam, sbuci

Offline metcam

Re: Wish-Request for next Update for Genos
« Reply #12 on: November 03, 2018, 01:24:02 PM »
This would be a great addition to creating TERCA and players who use them for their style of play. However, you need to add a transposer and separate Right 1, 2, 3. It is still necessary to make Voices Presets editable in YEM.

I have a better and simpler solution. Yamaha could add one new function to the Tuning menu, named Note Shift. And separate RIGHT1,2,3. As you adjust the Scale and move +/- 64 cents, you could adjust half a ton for each note -/+ 12. So you can work in Genos directly to TERCE. You could then use preset and custom sound, and without using YEM you can easily create all the necessary variations. In this way, you could effortlessly create your own HARMONY for each specific song and tonality.

Regards

Thank you ckobu.

Any idea is more than welcome.

"Terca" is very important in Balkan ant Eastern Europe music.  I am pretty sure Yamaha will look on this(They probably know best way to make Terca).

Thank you all and thank to Yamaha.


Regards
Curent Instruments: GENOS the best of the best and sx900
Previus instruments:PSR-A3000,PSR9000,Tyros2,Tyros3,TYROS5,psr2000,psr2100,psr1500,psr530,psr OR700,DX7,DX11,V50,DX21.
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Offline valimaties

Re: Wish-Request for next Update for Genos
« Reply #13 on: November 06, 2018, 11:42:05 AM »
This would be a great addition to creating TERCA and players who use them for their style of play. However, you need to add a transposer and separate Right 1, 2, 3. It is still necessary to make Voices Presets editable in YEM.

I have a better and simpler solution. Yamaha could add one new function to the Tuning menu, named Note Shift. And separate RIGHT1,2,3. As you adjust the Scale and move +/- 64 cents, you could adjust half a ton for each note -/+ 12. So you can work in Genos directly to TERCE. You could then use preset and custom sound, and without using YEM you can easily create all the necessary variations. In this way, you could effortlessly create your own HARMONY for each specific song and tonality.

Regards

This is a great idea!
But I have to add that this "custom scale tuning" option is not enough, because if you change the chords, it has to somehow follow the chords too, and in the same time to follow your custom scale... It is a combination between harmony and a custom scale tuning.

Regards,
Vali
______________________________________________
Genos 2.0, Allen & Heath SQ5
My youtube channel - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCzi9PPrMTjN8_zX9P9kelxg

Vali Maties - Genos
 

Online ckobu

Re: Wish-Request for next Update for Genos
« Reply #14 on: November 06, 2018, 12:30:11 PM »
You were right, not ideally settled as HARMONY. But with this option, they could make TERCE easier for each chord. When we make the C harmonic minor, we simply transpose it into D with the Base Note.
So far it has not been possible. If Yamaha built this option it would get new users. The same thing was with the mono legato option that came with the first upgrade of Genos.

Regards
Watch my video channel
 

Offline metcam

Re: Wish-Request for next Update for Genos
« Reply #15 on: November 06, 2018, 03:03:36 PM »
You were right, not ideally settled as HARMONY. But with this option, they could make TERCE easier for each chord. When we make the C harmonic minor, we simply transpose it into D with the Base Note.
So far it has not been possible. If Yamaha built this option it would get new users. The same thing was with the mono legato option that came with the first upgrade of Genos.

Regards

You right ckobu. I know a lease 10 musicians who bought Genos because mono-legato and drum editor. And I am pretty sure if Yamaha add options to have "Terca" a lot musicians from Balkan and Eastern Europe will switch to Yamaha from another like Korg,Roland, etc..

Regards
Curent Instruments: GENOS the best of the best and sx900
Previus instruments:PSR-A3000,PSR9000,Tyros2,Tyros3,TYROS5,psr2000,psr2100,psr1500,psr530,psr OR700,DX7,DX11,V50,DX21.
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Offline valimaties

Re: Wish-Request for next Update for Genos
« Reply #16 on: November 07, 2018, 01:54:36 PM »
You right ckobu. I know a lease 10 musicians who bought Genos because mono-legato and drum editor. And I am pretty sure if Yamaha add options to have "Terca" a lot musicians from Balkan and Eastern Europe will switch to Yamaha from another like Korg,Roland, etc..

Regards

Being from Romania, we use terca a lot... Almost all our ethnic music is based on terca.
I sold my Tyros 5 (61) and bought Genos for 4 reasons: Touch screen, Mono-Legato, Drum Setup and 76 keys (shorter than T5-76). The rest of improvements were only good improvements to my old Tyros 5 sound and look.
BTW, I would have liked that Drum Setup to be a page as Voice Editor, and to be stored in Registration Memory, or in Voice User Area. If you want to modify a snare in real time, you cannot do this. You have to tweak it in Style Creator, to save style and use after that. Korg has it in realtime and it would be good we have it, too.
I would also want to see a middle frequency in EQ settings, for all of the elements: voice, mic, drum elements...
And the last one, and in my opinion the most important: Saving registrations while playback, too. I don't know why they have limited saving process of a registration, because they are only some settings, which does not use midi channels or something like that!  ???

Regards,
Vali
______________________________________________
Genos 2.0, Allen & Heath SQ5
My youtube channel - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCzi9PPrMTjN8_zX9P9kelxg

Vali Maties - Genos
 

Online ckobu

Re: Wish-Request for next Update for Genos
« Reply #17 on: November 07, 2018, 02:54:56 PM »
Valimaties, I understand the reasons you mentioned. Genos is a really great instrument but with these small accessories it would be even better. And small correction, the microphone has a middle EQ and registration can be stored on the fly. Unfortunately, we can not store the BANK.

Regards

Offline sbuci

Re: Wish-Request for next Update for Genos
« Reply #18 on: November 11, 2018, 04:12:51 PM »
I am from Croatia and I join my colleagues with a wish for "terca" ... we need them desperately...thank you Yamaha!
« Last Edit: November 11, 2018, 04:24:07 PM by sbuci »
 

Offline valimaties

Re: Wish-Request for next Update for Genos
« Reply #19 on: November 12, 2018, 08:30:55 AM »
...(1) And small correction, the microphone has a middle EQ and (2) registration can be stored on the fly. Unfortunately, we can not store the BANK.

Regards

(1) Yes, indeed... my mistake, I wrote too quickly without thinking of it  ;D
(2) My thoughts was on saving Registration bank, not the registration memory, I know it can be done for one registration. But singing, when you want to change the song (changing registration bank) it ask you if you want to save the registration bank (time consuming) and after that it tells you that this operation cannot be done while style/song is playing... Bad thing!

Regards,
Vali
______________________________________________
Genos 2.0, Allen & Heath SQ5
My youtube channel - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCzi9PPrMTjN8_zX9P9kelxg

Vali Maties - Genos
 

Online ckobu

Re: Wish-Request for next Update for Genos
« Reply #20 on: November 12, 2018, 02:47:21 PM »
(2) I agree, it is impossible to do and store only one registration does not make much sense

Regards,
ckobu
Watch my video channel
 

Offline dawn68

Re: Wish-Request for next Update for Genos
« Reply #21 on: November 12, 2018, 07:11:08 PM »
And please is it possible with an update to make a separate set up page for MFC 10 like on the Tyros, Thankyou.
 

Offline valimaties

Re: Wish-Request for next Update for Genos
« Reply #22 on: November 13, 2018, 09:26:38 AM »
I'm a little bit sad.  :(

I have sent a message to Yamaha Europe, telling them about DSP problem, (edited parameters are not saving in registration memory but only for the last DSP), last week.
Yesterday I have received an email. They told me they will NOT sending Yamaha no more messages, because Yamaha team is very small one and they don't have time to solve all problems.

So, I have to believe there will be no more updates on Genos firmware, at least no in the next 6-12 months.  :(

Very sad mail!  :(

Regards,
Vali
______________________________________________
Genos 2.0, Allen & Heath SQ5
My youtube channel - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCzi9PPrMTjN8_zX9P9kelxg

Vali Maties - Genos
 

Offline Gunnar Jonny

Re: Wish-Request for next Update for Genos
« Reply #23 on: November 13, 2018, 12:32:38 PM »

..........because Yamaha team is very small one and they don't have time to solve all problems.


Not all?    ??? :o
If so, it would be nice if they could elaborate which problems they will solve .......

Hopefully they will solve faults, but the team at supportline probably get lots of emails with more user faults than real faults or bugs. The supportteam probably do not have the knowledge needed to filter out and forward the really important issues.
Then customers get replies just like the one you did.
Cheers 🥂
GJ
_______________________________________________
"Success is not counted by how high you have climbed
but by how many you brought with you." (Wil Rose)
 

Online overover

Re: Wish-Request for next Update for Genos
« Reply #24 on: November 13, 2018, 01:32:58 PM »
I'm a little bit sad.  :(

I have sent a message to Yamaha Europe, telling them about DSP problem, (edited parameters are not saving in registration memory but only for the last DSP), last week.
Yesterday I have received an email. They told me they will NOT sending Yamaha no more messages, because Yamaha team is very small one and they don't have time to solve all problems.

So, I have to believe there will be no more updates on Genos firmware, at least no in the next 6-12 months. :(

Very sad mail!  :( ...

Hi Vali,

I also do not know when the next update will come. But the Genos development team is very well informed about the problems with the current firmware and will do everything to fix them as soon as possible.

I expect the next update in the first months of 2019.


Best regards,
Chris
 

Offline valimaties

Re: Wish-Request for next Update for Genos
« Reply #25 on: November 13, 2018, 05:32:37 PM »
Jonny, my emails sent to Yamaha Europe contains videos with the problem mentioned in text...
More than that, I have replied to mails contains suggested problem... The person who I'm speaking to is the same every time (almost from mail signature).

Chris, I hope I am wrong. I hope :(

Regards,
Vali
______________________________________________
Genos 2.0, Allen & Heath SQ5
My youtube channel - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCzi9PPrMTjN8_zX9P9kelxg

Vali Maties - Genos
 

Offline StuartR

Re: Wish-Request for next Update for Genos
« Reply #26 on: November 13, 2018, 05:47:21 PM »
Hi Vali,

I also do not know when the next update will come. But the Genos development team is very well informed about the problems with the current firmware and will do everything to fix them as soon as possible.

I expect the next update in the first months of 2019.


Best regards,
Chris

Your statement above about Yamaha fixing the Genos problems as soon as possible sounds more like fact than opinion. So is this the case? Sorry to question your comments but we get a lot of opinion and little substantive facts regarding the Yamaha Genos team and their efforts.

Stuart.
 

Offline metcam

Re: Wish-Request for next Update for Genos
« Reply #27 on: November 18, 2018, 11:22:47 AM »
I am from Croatia and I join my colleagues with a wish for "terca" ... we need them desperately...thank you Yamaha!

Welcome "sbuci"

Yes we need "Terca".


Best regards.
Curent Instruments: GENOS the best of the best and sx900
Previus instruments:PSR-A3000,PSR9000,Tyros2,Tyros3,TYROS5,psr2000,psr2100,psr1500,psr530,psr OR700,DX7,DX11,V50,DX21.
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Offline romario

Re: Wish-Request for next Update for Genos: "TERCA"
« Reply #28 on: November 19, 2018, 11:34:05 AM »
Hi,I am from Balkan too. And yes,,we need Terca. It would be nice if Yamaha add that option trough next update.
Thank you.

Offline sbuci

Re: Wish-Request for next Update for Genos: "TERCA"
« Reply #29 on: November 19, 2018, 06:39:03 PM »
metcam..thanks for the welcome.....romario...thanks for joining us.........yes,in our Balkan songs, there are many fast sections where it is very difficult to play the intervals (terce) with two fingers,besides,it sounds much more natural when each voice plays only one tone of interval (terce)!

Best regards!

Offline panos

Re: Wish-Request for next Update for Genos: "TERCA"
« Reply #30 on: November 19, 2018, 09:41:04 PM »
I was just curious about what TERCA ethnic harmony is and found this video.
They use a sampler to create the TERCA harmony connected to the keyboard:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bbI0cXsAjhY&t=258s
http://www.juzisound.com/products/solo_sampler.php

Neither a psr A3000 has this kind of feature for playing ethnic music?
 
« Last Edit: November 19, 2018, 09:43:30 PM by panos »
 

Offline valimaties

Re: Wish-Request for next Update for Genos: "TERCA"
« Reply #31 on: November 21, 2018, 02:22:44 PM »
I was just curious about what TERCA ethnic harmony is and found this video.
They use a sampler to create the TERCA harmony connected to the keyboard:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bbI0cXsAjhY&t=258s
http://www.juzisound.com/products/solo_sampler.php

Neither a psr A3000 has this kind of feature for playing ethnic music?

There are a lot of musicians in my country which use this Juzisound module. My buddy, accordion player, has modified his accordion and put a midi controller to use Juzisound module. Its an awesome module.

Regards,
Vali
______________________________________________
Genos 2.0, Allen & Heath SQ5
My youtube channel - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCzi9PPrMTjN8_zX9P9kelxg

Vali Maties - Genos
 

Offline metcam

Re: Wish-Request for next Update for Genos: "TERCA"
« Reply #32 on: November 26, 2018, 10:28:40 AM »
I was just curious about what TERCA ethnic harmony is and found this video.
They use a sampler to create the TERCA harmony connected to the keyboard:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bbI0cXsAjhY&t=258s
http://www.juzisound.com/products/solo_sampler.php

Neither a psr A3000 has this kind of feature for playing ethnic music?

Thanks panos

Perfect example!!
Curent Instruments: GENOS the best of the best and sx900
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Offline gkuceko

Re: Wish-Request for next Update for Genos: "TERCA"
« Reply #33 on: January 23, 2019, 09:13:43 PM »
Yes this would be great option, if not necessary for my country, and i am currently in purchasing state for new keyboard, currently yamaha owner, but because of lack of this feature (TERCA) in yamaha keyboards, i am forced to go with other brand like Korg or Roland, mainly because of this for me necessary feature. I wish Yamaha implement this simple function in keyboards, just like they did with MONO/LEGATO function, and they will keep us Yamaha users happy and not loosing us.

Regards.
Goran
Keep strong and keep playing!
 

Online ckobu

Re: Wish-Request for next Update for Genos: "TERCA"
« Reply #34 on: February 06, 2020, 12:05:49 AM »
I have made video showing how a terca can be made. Separate Right allowed it to be made now.
If Yamaha offered us the solution I suggested in post # 11, this job would be much easier.

https://youtu.be/RfmEVpMV-78


« Last Edit: February 06, 2020, 12:31:06 PM by ckobu »
Watch my video channel
 

Offline sunny

Re: Wish-Request for next Update for Genos: "TERCA"
« Reply #35 on: February 17, 2020, 04:16:09 PM »
1) The biggest problem is that sub outputs sends a signal without Reverb,Dsp.
  I would like to have an option to switch on Reverb,DSP Effects to Sub Outputs.

2)Smooth Transition : Changing Registratins create a loud ugly sound due to the effects or sounds saved within each OTS or Registrations. Would be great if this is fixed.

3) Indian kit is missing in Genos Styles. Please add Indian kit and some Indian voices. All other keyboards Psr s970,s975 and even PSR SX 900 have Indian Kit but Genos does not have Indian kit , as such the third party styles are not compatible for Genos and third party producers are not making any exclusive Indian styles for Genos . Please add Indian kit and few Indian voices in next update.

Sunny