Author Topic: Genos as a MIDI controller  (Read 861 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Genos as a MIDI controller
« on: February 15, 2020, 08:36:15 PM »
Hi team,

I have decided to abandon the idea of recording the Genos on a DAW like Cubase. Instead, I'm going to just use it as a MIDI controller for VST instruments and drum patterns using HALion and Groove Agent.

Does anyone have experience doing this? Is the process fairly straight forward or is using the Genos for this purpose as big as a pain in the backside as recording the Genos in a DAW?

Thanks...
 
The following users thanked this post: KeyboardByBiggs

Offline Genos!

Re: Genos as a MIDI controller
« Reply #1 on: February 15, 2020, 09:53:11 PM »
Actually, you will probably find that the opposite is true.

I'm not sure that all of the nob turns and sliders will transmit midi events.

I am sure that you will have a lot better success playing on the Genos and recording the midi, and then working on the midi within Cubase, or Reaper (...yada-yada), and adding in all of the automation within the DAW.

Genos would be my last choice to use as a midi-controller, or DAW.

I have four keyboards, and Genos was not designed to transmit to them while it talks to itself. A proper DAW is designed to do just that, communicate with everything, and more.
« Last Edit: February 15, 2020, 09:57:44 PM by Genos! »
Casio WK-3700, Korg TritonLe, Roland FA-08, Yamaha Genos, Various VST, Reaper DAW, Roland VS-2480, MOTU 896mk3Hy, MTP/AV Masterpiece, TC-Helicon VoiceLive Rack, AXON AX100 MKII, Digitech GSP-1101. Saxes, clarinet, flute, recorder, mando, guitar 6/12/elec.
 

Re: Genos as a MIDI controller
« Reply #2 on: February 16, 2020, 01:16:03 AM »
Does anyone have experience doing this? Is the process fairly straight forward or is using the Genos for this purpose as big as a pain in the backside as recording the Genos in a DAW?

Check this out Lee. A great example of using a Yamaha arranger in concert with Cubase.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J4uEfFVPQsg

Check Out My YouTube Channel! https://goo.gl/edbXFS
 

Re: Genos as a MIDI controller
« Reply #3 on: February 16, 2020, 01:23:45 PM »
Thanks KB Biggs. I've gotten that far with recording the Genos to a DAW. The video describes how to do the basic recording on the Genos, import to Cubase, and then add audio tracks. What I really need is to add more MIDI tracks from the Gemos. In terms of fine editing, MIDI is far superior and easier than audio.
 

Re: Genos as a MIDI controller
« Reply #4 on: February 16, 2020, 01:51:31 PM »
I agree, Genos!. Hence my question. I want to use the Genos strictly to control the VST instruments within Cubase.

Does anyone use their Genos for this specific purpose? I'm not sure how complicated it is. When you use a VST instrument, you load it to a MIDI track and trigger that track with the Genos key bed. I assume you probably need to turn the Genos "Local control" to Off. There would also be no audio connections needed from the Genos to the audio interface.
 

Re: Genos as a MIDI controller
« Reply #5 on: February 16, 2020, 02:15:35 PM »
This gentleman gives an excellent explanation of how to set up the Genos for recording in a DAW.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BFu_Ac5213I
 

Offline Bachus

Re: Genos as a MIDI controller
« Reply #6 on: February 16, 2020, 06:15:03 PM »
Actually its quite simple...

Just set up your midi to transmit on all channels..
Make a performance that replaces left voice,  r1 and r3 with the init voice
This is a voice that does not make any sound..
This gives you when you set up your split, 1,2 or 3 zones for playing VSTís..

For live playing its advised to use a specific vst host like Camelot Pro..

For recording on your DAW.. its easy..  only use the parts you want to record..
Make this selection on your Daw..

Then you go to your knobs..
Choose 6 parameters that send CC over midi.. and use midi learn on your vstís/daw/host to set them to any parameter you want
Keyszone.boards.net for all the latest keyboard news and information.
 

Re: Genos as a MIDI controller
« Reply #7 on: February 16, 2020, 07:45:29 PM »
Excellent explanation, Bachus. Thanks. All I need now is to have someone explain how to get to your steps. There are a million things that need to be configured in Cubase long before any of your steps will make sense to me.

Cubase is definitely not designed for the beginner like myself. You must have a thorough knowledge of signal routing, MIDI transmit and receive functions, and how they all relate to VST instruments, the Genos, and Cubase itself. If I could only rewind your tape and play it from the part where you say, "Open Cubase," I may be able to get somewhere.

Thanks for the help ;).
 

Re: Genos as a MIDI controller
« Reply #8 on: February 16, 2020, 07:59:08 PM »
I have listened to about five videos on recording the Genos directly into Cubase. My hat's off to those guys who can actually get it to work. It is VERY convoluted and takes forever to set up. Even after you get things going and have recorded a song, you need to go into the Genos and reload the style several times for things to work correctly. Then, you have to go in and delete the funny little noises that Cubase recorded from the SA2 voices. The whole process is like watching a drunk pig on stilts, and that's after you have all your instrument definitions loaded and a custom MIDI template built and stored in the Genos.

I'm going to see if I can just use the Genos as a MIDI controller for VST voices and drums. Steinberg has an absolutely ridiculously low sale price on HALion 6 and Groove Agent 5 - 50 percent off!! The voices on the demo videos are on par if not better than the Genos. Plain and simple, the Genos is an excellent live playing tool. For recording, it isn't even housebroken. Too many trap doors and booby traps.

Once again, is anyone using their Genos to just control VST instruments in Cubase? Thanks ;).
 

Offline jugge

Re: Genos as a MIDI controller
« Reply #9 on: February 23, 2020, 11:11:47 AM »
Hi Lee,

Cubase & Genos  :D yea, I feel your pain. Been struggling with those two for a while.

For recording Genos to Cubase, I have tried to record directly into Cubase - following Thios videos on YouTube - but I never got it to fully worked. Sometimes it sounded fine, but other times I got some really weird results.

Nowadays I record the basic song foundation in Genos first (Style, instruments and effects).
Sometimes I use the chord step record feature and other time I do live recording, but I am not such a good live player, so when recording live, I'll have to do quite a lot of editing in Cubase.

After recording in Genos, I save the result as a midi file and import into Cubase and also turned midi local off on Genos to use it as a controller.
At first I still had some issues with the effects I used on the instrument tracks not being enabled when I played the file back in Cubase. It could be working from the beginning of the playback, but as soon as I stop the playback in Cubase, the effects turned off.

I later found out that there was a sysex message that turned off the effect after I stopped the multi recorder in Genos. I thought I only needed to record a few seconds of the instruments I wanted to use, but then you will have to find the sysex message that turn off the effect and it might not be so easy if you donít know where to look. So now when I record an instrument in Genos, I just let the multi recorder run until the song ends, so that I know I will get all the effects.

Even if there is a bit more work to do the initial recording in Genos and then import the midi file in Cubase, I feel that I get a better result this way. The result sounds exactly as it does when playing the style back on Genos. Also, using the Yamaha  musicsoft downloader app, makes is fast to transfer the midi file from Genos to my computer.

As for controlling VSTi instruments from Genos, I have only used basic functions like playback, using sing pitch bends and modulation. Unfortunately the Genos lacks transport buttons, like on the MOFX and other keyboards, so the option to control Cubase is limited and you might be better off using a dedicated controller, like the Steinberg CC121. 
I have heard that the new VST3 standard, support MIDI Learning for mapping MIDI CC to controller.  I have  not been experimenting with this though.

Best regards
/Jorgen
Welcome to Genos Beats. Genos covers on YouTube.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC9yKCzqlOhkulwHFF6P-_Vw
 

Offline ckobu

Re: Genos as a MIDI controller
« Reply #10 on: February 23, 2020, 11:32:28 AM »
Jorgen,

i know exactly what you are talking about, i have had the same experiences.
I now work exclusively with free Cakewalk and although there are some problems, working with Cakewalk is much more enjoyable. This is a video that shows this approach.
https://youtu.be/vjqUzC4DqnI

Sometimes I also use XGWorks, it better understands the SysEx you mention.
There is still no Chord Sequencer in Genos, we can use Chord Looper as using the method. Like this.
https://youtu.be/-BljSgJEB6w

Re: Genos as a MIDI controller
« Reply #11 on: February 23, 2020, 02:02:45 PM »
Thanks, Jorgen and ckobu. I have had some success in the past few days using the Genos as a MIDI controller for VST instruments in Cubase. It is surprisingly easy. Here's what I do:

1.   Turn on the Genos and your sound module (Steinberg UR44 in my case).
2.   On the Genos, goto the MIDI page and set the Clock to USB1. My Genos is connected from the USB jack on the back of my Genos to a USB input directly on my computer.
3.   On the MIDI page, turn off all Local Control parts.
4.   Leave the Genos volume at zero or all the way off because youíre not triggering internal sounds.
5.   Open Cubase.
6.   Set up a MIDI track with a VST instrument assigned.
7.   Make sure the MIDI input is set to All MIDI. Doing this gives you the ability to record any sound device connected to your sound module.
8.   Assign the MIDI output to Channel 1. For subsequent tracks, assign the MIDI output to Channels 2, 3, 4, and so on.
9.   Arm Channel 1 and record.
« Last Edit: February 23, 2020, 02:04:11 PM by Lee Batchelor »