Author Topic: Genos voice/data identity error?  (Read 763 times)

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Offline Dave Nuttall

Genos voice/data identity error?
« on: January 14, 2020, 11:17:55 PM »
I've made some MIDIs on my GENOS using the embedded CountryWaltz style.

When I bring the MIDI to the PC and examine it with MixMaster, the voice for channel 14 is listed as:  "Not on the Genos".

MixMaster shows what the keyboard saved as 008062003

Could this possibly be an error in the printed data list(s)?


Genos, ProTools, Cubase AI10, Win10,  BIAB-2016, Sibelius 7.5, MixMaster, PRSUTI, StyleMagic, StyleWorks, and Baldwin SF-10 acoustic piano.
 

Offline EileenL

Re: Genos voice/data identity error?
« Reply #1 on: January 15, 2020, 05:14:34 PM »
I don't understand what you mean by embedded style. When you recorded the midi what voice did you choose. It must have been on Genos unless you used a voice from an expansion pack.

Offline Henni

Re: Genos voice/data identity error?
« Reply #2 on: January 15, 2020, 05:30:30 PM »
I also found a few like that. Most prob because MixMaster' instrument definition file on the Genos not completely up to date on this specific version.
...Fly Forever!
 

Offline tyrosaurus

Re: Genos voice/data identity error?
« Reply #3 on: January 15, 2020, 08:02:28 PM »
This voice is one of the 100 or so in the Genos Preset/StyleVoice category.

This category is only displayed when you open the voice selection screen from the Mixer's 'Style' or 'Song' tab.

The voice in question is MSB:LSB:PC  008:062:003 which Yamaha displays as 008:062:004 because Yamaha insist on numbering their program changes from 1 to 128, instead of 0 to 127 like almost everyone else on the planet!  It displays as 'PedalSteel' S.Art

I don't know why these voices are hived off in their own category, and they are not listed in the Genos Data List.  Perhaps they are to ensure compatibility with styles from earlier models?

I suspect that programs like MixMaster won't have any of them listed as being available on a particular keyboard.   However, you can easily modify the voice data file that MixMaster uses to include them if you really want to.


Regards

Ian
 

Offline Dave Nuttall

Re: Genos voice/data identity error?
« Reply #4 on: January 15, 2020, 08:25:30 PM »
This voice is one of the 100 or so in the Genos Preset/StyleVoice category.

This category is only displayed when you open the voice selection screen from the Mixer's 'Style' or 'Song' tab.

The voice in question is MSB:LSB:PC  008:062:003 which Yamaha displays as 008:062:004 because Yamaha insist on numbering their program changes from 1 to 128, instead of 0 to 127 like almost everyone else on the planet!  It displays as 'PedalSteel' S.Art

I don't know why these voices are hived off in their own category, and they are not listed in the Genos Data List.  Perhaps they are to ensure compatibility with styles from earlier models?

I suspect that programs like MixMaster won't have any of them listed as being available on a particular keyboard.   However, you can easily modify the voice data file that MixMaster uses to include them if you really want to.

THANKS, Ian!
I had asked Michael & Etienne about it when I first noticed it and they said they depended solely on the data list to make the MixMaster database.
I'll point them to this post.
Thanks again.
Dave
Genos, ProTools, Cubase AI10, Win10,  BIAB-2016, Sibelius 7.5, MixMaster, PRSUTI, StyleMagic, StyleWorks, and Baldwin SF-10 acoustic piano.
 

Offline Dromeus

Re: Genos voice/data identity error?
« Reply #5 on: January 15, 2020, 10:00:32 PM »
This voice is one of the 100 or so in the Genos Preset/StyleVoice category.

Confirmed! There are exactly 101 hidden voices ist the StyleVoices category.

I don't know why these voices are hived off in their own category, and they are not listed in the Genos Data List.  Perhaps they are to ensure compatibility with styles from earlier models?

I don't think it's to enusre compatibility with earlier models. That's what the Legacy voices are for.

One half of these StyleVoices are (by the majority) S.Art2! voices or Live! voices. I didn't analyze each of these voices, but for quite a few S.Art2! there is an obvious reason. Those S.Art2! voices have a sampled vibrato built in, that will sound automatically a short period after pressing the key. This may (or sometimes may not) be useful for a solo voice, but this a deal breaker in a (accompaniment) style voice (RHY, PAD). So what Yamaha did here was to copy an modify these S.Art2! panel voices to make them suitable as style voices, by eleminating the automatic vibrato.

Recall that Yamaha does not allow us to fully edit S.Art voices, neither using Voice Set editor nor YEM. Therefore it is unknown, which individual changes were made to these voices (besides obvious ones like the vibrato).

I have no idea why Yamaha insists on hiding these voices, but they even insist on hiding XG / GM2 voices (which were available in the Tyros line), don't they?

BTW, the second half of the hidden voices are Organ (Flutes) voices.

Regards, Michael
 
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Offline vlbrgt

Re: Genos voice/data identity error?
« Reply #6 on: January 16, 2020, 02:45:20 PM »
Hello,

Thanks for pointing me out that there are some hidden voices in the Genos available (for styles only ?).
I added the hidden voices to the list of the Genos voices for MixMaster v19r1, and included the new GENOS.dat file as attachment to this topic.
If necessary you can download this file and replace the existing file in the MixMaster install folder.
Be aware that reinstalling MixMaster sets the old file back.

This new voice file is only available from whitin this topic. It has not been published as an update in the normal MixMaster download pages.
In the new MixMaster v20r1 release (Not yet published) the changes will be included when installing the program.
In this new version I try to make the instrumentfiles editable by the user.

ATTENTION as it was not possible to send a .dat file at this forum I changed the filename into GENOS.dat.txt
YOU SHOULD REMOVE THE .txt extension after downloading the file.

Regards
Etienne

« Last Edit: January 16, 2020, 02:49:56 PM by vlbrgt »
 
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