Author Topic: A sad (partial) farewell  (Read 2236 times)

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Offline torben

A sad (partial) farewell
« on: January 12, 2020, 07:39:51 PM »
Dear members of this forum

PSRtutorial is a big help when you have a technical problem.

But the “music performances”  section is getting more and more poisonous and "clannish".

If you dare to raise any question of a an uploaded songs technical merit - polite and not in an evil manner - you are instantly attacked - viciously. At the moment it seems that the people commenting on song uploads only expects - and demands - heavenly praise even if the playing/singing is of a very dubious character.

Recently we have even come to a situation where age is apparently considered as a merit in itself. Meaning that if you are old, you can only be greeted by very commendatory comments. Otherwise the comment is found to be insulting. My hope would be that everybody would accept to be judged according to the quality of your upload and open to - constructive - criticism. I know that I am. You can always agree or disagree with the comments and have a friendly discussion, but at least this opens up for improvements. Now - everybody is (only) praising everybody ... :)

A member recently accused me of "thinking" that I am the best musician here.  :P :P Well, to say it frankly and sadly, I do not "think" that I am. I know that - very unfortunately - I belong to the best players here that have some decent technical skills at the keyboard and who present good singers. And who is realistic enough to realize that my own singing should be left in the shower cabin ...

The comment from the said member came after I dared to suggest that one of the other members  here should refrain from singing. I complimented her playing adding "but ..", implying that she should reconsider if singing is her area. Hardly a capital crime ... 

Now I will probably be back stabbed in 2 minutes ... 8)

Recently I have been receiving more or less threatening mails. Hoping for my soon death etc.

I actually do not care - I was used to get such mails in my former job as a judge and I just delete them. ;D But is this really OK to you? Is this the way to respond to a guy trying to help? Not according to my wife I can tell you...  :'(

Rest in peace. I have decided - for now - to stop uploading/commenting songs ...

May you all have a good day  ;D 

And please leave your hateful comments in the shelf  ::)

Kind regards

Torben
« Last Edit: January 12, 2020, 08:16:03 PM by torben »
Tyros 5 was my choice - now it is Tyros 5 AND Genos !
 
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Offline Fred Smith

Re: A sad (partial) farewell
« Reply #1 on: January 12, 2020, 07:53:19 PM »
Sorry to hear this, Torben. But I’m not surprised as the responses you’ve received.

I’ve always felt we should have two song forums. One for those who want constructive criticism, and one for those who don’t.

Cheers,
Fred
Fred Smith,
Saskatoon, SK
Sun Lakes, AZ
Genos, Bose L1 compacts, Finale 2015
Check out my Registration Lessons
 
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Offline SeaGtGruff

Re: A sad (partial) farewell
« Reply #2 on: January 12, 2020, 09:35:42 PM »
Recently I have been receiving more or less threatening mails. Hoping for my soon death etc.

Wow. That sort of thing is totally uncalled for, not to mention possibly criminal. :o
Michael Rideout
Current keyboards: Yamaha YPT-400, PSR-E433, PSR-E443, PSR-EW400, MX49 BK
Current controllers: M-Audio Axiom 61-II
Previous keyboards: Farfisa Matador 611; Casio CTK-710
 
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Offline ticktock

Re: A sad (partial) farewell
« Reply #3 on: January 12, 2020, 09:38:55 PM »
Hi Torben,
I'd like to let you know that I've been downloaded your mp3's from this forum, saved them in a MP3 player, and I listened to them everyday in the evening after a hard-working day. I appreciate them very much and now I feel so bad that I never said anything good about them in the forum.
People can say whatever they like but music has its own voice. Even a best selling album still get negative by some people.
Please reconsider your decision.
Ted.
 
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Offline Toril S

Re: A sad (partial) farewell
« Reply #4 on: January 12, 2020, 09:57:50 PM »
Hello Torben and Fred :)
I have not experienced people posting comments in the song section as only giving praise and never saying the truth. On the contrary, I uploaded a vocal, my first ever, and asked my friends to be honest about my voice and performance. All friends responded according to what I asked of them. they gave me the good and the bad, and did not put any icing on the cake. This helped me a lot! They pointed to all my mistakes in the recording, but, - and this is important! - THEY ALL ENCOURAGED ME TO GO ON REHEARSING, and I have done just that. I know I can rely on friends here. Several times they have helped me. One friend even adapted the style I used in one of my compositions, so it would sound better. So no, Fred, we absolutely do not need two song forums, the one we have functions well.

And Torben, threats are absolutely unacceptable! But I can understand that people got irritated, you don't have to be an opera artist to upload a song on this forum, and your comment was not kind.
Toril S

Genos, Tyros 5, PSR S975, PSR 2100
and PSR-47.
Former keyboards: PSR-S970.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCLVwWdb36Yd3LMBjAnm6pTQ?view_as=subscriber



Toril's PSR Performer Page
 
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Online Roger Brenizer

Re: A sad (partial) farewell
« Reply #5 on: January 12, 2020, 10:18:28 PM »
The current forum rules, which govern the "Songs Played by Forum Members" board, are as follows:

Sharing Music

Members often appreciate hearing music created by other members on their Yamaha keyboards. A variety of internet sites are available that allow users to freely upload their files and share them with the world.  Forum members who wish to share their songs via MP3 files, which tend to be very large, are encouraged to use these external resources to upload and store their files. They can then provide a link to their music (either as MP3s or YouTube videos) in the “Songs played by forum members” board under the Music Performances category.  Note that if you are sharing an MP3, it is expected that you are the person who created the MP3 and that you did it on one of the Yamaha arranger keyboards supported by this forum.

Users who wish to comment on member posted or linked songs are encouraged to do so via E-mail; the Performance boards are not meant to provide group discussions on playing ability or posts that negatively critique the performance. If you like a particular performance, you can simply click on the “Like” button.  The performer can easily see all the members that liked his/her performance.  However, if you would like to add some positive comments on a performance, feel free to add them as replies to the message thread.  The original poster can use the “Say Thanks” button to both indicate that your comments have been seen and that they are appreciated. The forum has members who play their keyboards professionally and are very talented. We also have many talented home players, many of them seniors having a great time making music, in spite of tired muscles, arthritic pains, even missing fingers or other ailments.

Edited the name of the "Songs Played by Forum Members" board
« Last Edit: January 13, 2020, 09:10:58 AM by Roger Brenizer »
"Music Is My Life"
My best regards,
Roger

(The older I get...the better I used to be...LOL!!!)
Roger’s PSR Performer Page
 
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Offline torben

Re: A sad (partial) farewell
« Reply #6 on: January 13, 2020, 08:56:08 AM »
????? Toril

you say that my comment on the singing part was not “kind”?

My comment was one - ONE - word = BUT.

How could I express my honest critic of the singing any kinder? I can imagine what Simon Cowell would have said ... :o

Torben
« Last Edit: January 13, 2020, 09:26:31 AM by torben »
Tyros 5 was my choice - now it is Tyros 5 AND Genos !
 

Offline Gunnar Jonny

Re: A sad (partial) farewell
« Reply #7 on: January 13, 2020, 11:11:53 AM »
".... Performance boards are not meant to provide group discussions on playing ability or posts that negatively critique the performance. If you like a particular performance, you can simply click on the “Like” button.  The performer can easily see all the members that liked his/her performance.  However, if you would like to add some positive comments on a performance, feel free to add them as replies to the message thread.....

To me it sounds a bit strange that the rules state that if someone have criticism or constructive comments that could be mistaken as negative, do it by use of personal messages or emails. If it's positive and applauding, then let all see it by post at forum and/or click likes ... 🙄😮
If we upload or perform music and songs for all to hear, we also have to take the honest feedback, good or bad. That's the way it is. 👍
Cheers 🥂
GJ
_______________________________________________
"Success is not counted by how high you have climbed
but by how many you brought with you." (Wil Rose)
 
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Offline EileenL

Re: A sad (partial) farewell
« Reply #8 on: January 13, 2020, 11:16:16 AM »
Well Torben as you know I am the But...
  To be honest I am surprised you commented on my song at all unless you wished to bring this response on. I took it with a pinch of salt as we say. All I can say is that I am a forum member who uploaded a performance created entirely by me. I did not use a singer who is not even a member here.
   I don't post many songs on here because I don't always have the time to comment on other members performances which I believe they deserve for spending time uploading there work for us to hear. I have always believed in constructive critique that is intended to help and it has always been received as that.
  This forum like many, caters for the beginner and the more advanced. That way players can and do pick up many tips from listening to such a variety.
  I will still sing the occasional song when I feel like doing so and as they say you always have the off button.

« Last Edit: January 13, 2020, 03:09:29 PM by EileenL »
 
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Offline torben

Re: A sad (partial) farewell
« Reply #9 on: January 13, 2020, 12:59:38 PM »
Hi Eileen

You might start to be so polite as to spell my name correctly...

My post was meant to be constructive and kind. You apparently felt otherwise. And maybe - just maybe - I used good singers that could raise the quality of my uploads ... and to be inspirational to others.
Tyros 5 was my choice - now it is Tyros 5 AND Genos !
 

Offline robinez

Re: A sad (partial) farewell
« Reply #10 on: January 13, 2020, 01:13:17 PM »
Dear members of this forum

PSRtutorial is a big help when you have a technical problem.

But the “music performances”  section is getting more and more poisonous and "clannish".

If you dare to raise any question of a an uploaded songs technical merit - polite and not in an evil manner - you are instantly attacked - viciously. At the moment it seems that the people commenting on song uploads only expects - and demands - heavenly praise even if the playing/singing is of a very dubious character.

Recently we have even come to a situation where age is apparently considered as a merit in itself. Meaning that if you are old, you can only be greeted by very commendatory comments. Otherwise the comment is found to be insulting. My hope would be that everybody would accept to be judged according to the quality of your upload and open to - constructive - criticism. I know that I am. You can always agree or disagree with the comments and have a friendly discussion, but at least this opens up for improvements. Now - everybody is (only) praising everybody ... :)

The comment from the said member came after I dared to suggest that one of the other members  here should refrain from singing. I complimented her playing adding "but ..", implying that she should reconsider if singing is her area. Hardly a capital crime ...

i've had to read your posts to see what you are talking about and it was your reply with one word: But

That's not constructive criticism, it's an opinion where you judge people and try to imply that they should reconsider singing (you even said that yourself in the quote above). Why would you say that to someone on a forum with amateur enthusiasts that post a song which they are proud of. I doubt that it was her intention to release a commercial record of this song. Who are you to judge if people are allowed to sing or not, you are not the A&R manager in my opinion for this forum?

Constructive criticism would contain tips or area's where you think people can improve. But only posting the word But is judgemental. I saw more replies from you when reading your post history and i couldn't find constructive criticism posts, only judgemental posts, like the replies from you to the posts of rene for instance.

So i can understand why people react in a negative way to your posts.


A member recently accused me of "thinking" that I am the best musician here.  :P :P Well, to say it frankly and sadly, I do not "think" that I am. I know that - very unfortunately - I belong to the best players here that have some decent technical skills at the keyboard and who present good singers.
I think people should never say about theirself that they are a very good or skilled player. Other people can instantly tell based on reactions on posts if people know what they are talking about and if they have experience.

Recently I have been receiving more or less threatening mails. Hoping for my soon death etc.

i'm sorry to hear that, nobody should get those type of mails, it's a sad thing that nowadays we have those kind of reactions.


Rest in peace. I have decided - for now - to stop uploading/commenting songs ...
i always feel that these type of farewell posts are a cry for attention, normally i wouldn't react to these kind of posts,  but in your case i think it's indeed wise to stop commenting on songs.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2020, 02:17:35 PM by robinez »
 
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Offline beykock

Re: A sad (partial) farewell
« Reply #11 on: January 13, 2020, 02:55:04 PM »
Even an ex judge will make mistakes.  ;)
BUT ... finally ... he made the right decission. ;D

Babette
 
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Offline juketsu

Re: A sad (partial) farewell
« Reply #12 on: January 13, 2020, 04:30:55 PM »
Hello everyone!

Interesting conversation. A few comments as I see it.

We have some really good players on this forum, but none of them say they are good, none. I'm not really one of them, but I enjoy their presentations and ideas. Certainly there are also many members who are great players but do not send their songs.

I think those Roger rules posted by Roger are good, if you feel a great need to give negative feedback, give it a personal email so it's better. Giving negative feedback is a great art, tha you you can call that to constructive criticism. This is often overlooked, it's nicer to say your own negative words as constructive feedback. During my career I was a manager for almost 30 years, and from the beginning I was trained in how to give "constructive criticism". It was said at the same  time that you would never give it a start by saying that this thing is fine, but ... So not in the same sentence, a little hypocritical praise, and immediately after that I was full of criticism. The person remembers nothing more than the negative part of your criticism that began but... I would rather start with that critical part and end the positive part of your Feedback and strive for a dialogue on the subject. This is a difficult thing for everyone, of course for me, and especially difficult for those who believe they are capable of criticizing everything.

As you know, it is much easier to give negative feedback than positive feedback. However, there are many points in the songs on the forum that can be quite good, even if there are errors in the performance, both in the playing and the singing. The song can have a great idea of ​​arrangement, a new perspective, a good selection of sounds, surprising and good style. When it comes to singing, each one of us will surely do his best and have enjoyed recording the song. None of us, no one, does all the time the same level work, sometimes better and sometimes not so good. Singing develops only through singing, and that joy should not be taken away from anyone. Although I have already more than 60 years, I believe that I can become a better singer, even though the journey is long. But I have a lot of fun on that trip, and if even one member to enjoy my some song, I am happy.

We also have performances from many different genres, it's hard to imagine being able to give a critical assessment of a genre I don't even know. And why would I give,  it does not make me a better person and does not increase my appreciation.

I'm pretty sure that none of the keyboard platform will not work properly without a working members of the musical performances. Otherwise, only technical issues are discussed, and details are not of interest to everyone. Technology is important, as are good tips, but in the end, technology is just a tool for making music performances.

I appreciate all the members who submit their contributions to the forum. I especially appreciate those who make it a joy to make music, but you don't have to be perfect here. I also value seniority and I wish I could make music when I was 80.

That's how I see it.

Regards,

Juke

Ps. I´m sorry, my English language it´s not so good what it should be, hopefully you can understand, what I mean (I used Google translator in some parts...)
 
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Offline whataguy

Re: A sad (partial) farewell
« Reply #13 on: January 13, 2020, 04:40:25 PM »
Just a suggestion - instead of constructive criticism, why not helpful hints? I recently posted a song and someone commented on my use of the fast and slow Leslie effect, boosted me right to the sky. And why not making suggestions as to how to make it sound better (or nicer) that might not occur to the poster of songs. I realize that this might require talking down to some of us. Helpful hints that improve us at any level will get rid of all this bull****. When you post a song why not tell us the .rgt you used, how you decided to put this instrument with that one etc. Why don't we post a leadsheet of the song we posted? I could go on and on and I'm sure y'all get the message. Oh, by the way, whenever you use the word "but" you cancelled out any positive statement you made prior to your "but" - replace the word "but" with "AND", then nobody's feeling will get hurt. Just saying . . . Don in MI
 
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Offline Floodie

Re: A sad (partial) farewell
« Reply #14 on: January 13, 2020, 05:19:11 PM »
Cool.. whats going on here?

Torben, I listened to your music... what floor do I get off?
EileenL, your singin, sucks a little bit...... needs more gin.

But Congrats to both of you on being brave enough to post songs. I dont post because, honestly, I suck more than both of you.

You guys are too cute.
 
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Offline mikf

Re: A sad (partial) farewell
« Reply #15 on: January 13, 2020, 06:09:28 PM »
We shouldn’t get too carried away here with suggestions and comments, because this is largely just about common sense. No matter how Torben tries to dress it up or justify, its obvious to everyone that his comments were pretty rough, and unnecessary. It would have been better all round if he had just admitted this and apologized.
The arranger is a great instrument because good musicians can make impressive music by themselves, and learners and developing players can sound decent quite quickly. Over the years I have heard Torben develop into someone who can make listenable music, and kudos to him. He should take some satisfaction from that, but needs to keep it in context.  You can sound pretty decent on an arranger if you can competently play some lh chords and single finger rh melody, and that is great. But it doesnt make you a great or even good musician, because it’s relatively easy compared to traditional keyboard instruments, and largely simplistic. The musical gulf between the very small handful of really good musicians on this forum, like Andy G., and even people like Torben is not small. Its huge.
And this forum is not ‘the voice’ , and singing performances are completely incidental to the core function of this forum.
Mike
 
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Offline Milamber

Re: A sad (partial) farewell
« Reply #16 on: January 13, 2020, 06:18:03 PM »
I am 75 and, just this weekend, I listened to my own music from more than 30 years ago played on a Roland E35, most enjoyable - to ME.  About a year ago, I invested in a Tyros 5 and have yet to attain a level similar to [or close to] all those years ago.  Age + Arthritic joints don't help, but I would be most hesitant to post my efforts either here, or anywhere else for that matter. I enjoy most "publishings" here, but comment very rarely - and never with negativity.  Just my two penn'orth.  Regards All.

Maurice.
 
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Offline beykock

Re: A sad (partial) farewell
« Reply #17 on: January 13, 2020, 07:37:49 PM »
I wonder why Torben calls himself a professional musician.


Babette
 

Offline DrakeM

Re: A sad (partial) farewell
« Reply #18 on: January 13, 2020, 08:28:55 PM »
Ok, so I read all this thread. Then I went to listen to the song, By the Time I Get to Phoenix ... again.

My question is where was there a note sung OFF key? No where.

Torben ... you admit YOU can't sing and we now know you can't hear pitch either. I reckon you READ notes very well, however ...

« Last Edit: January 13, 2020, 08:30:01 PM by DrakeM »
 
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Offline torben

Re: A sad (partial) farewell
« Reply #19 on: January 13, 2020, 10:26:04 PM »
Dear all

thank you. You fulfill my wildest expectations! :P ::)

Apparently it is not OK to criticize - but fine to criticize the critic ...  :) :)

Torben
Tyros 5 was my choice - now it is Tyros 5 AND Genos !
 

Offline DrakeM

Re: A sad (partial) farewell
« Reply #20 on: January 13, 2020, 11:02:15 PM »
You got it mate  ;D
 
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Offline DonM

Re: A sad (partial) farewell
« Reply #21 on: January 13, 2020, 11:07:35 PM »
Torben,
May I suggest joining us at Keyboard Player.  https://www.keyboard-player.org.uk/?board=13.0
You can say whether you want just encouragement or constructive criticism.  It's for all arrangers, but biggest percentage is by Yamaha players.
Having said this I greatly PREFER to hear honest criticism, but it should be constructive in nature
I love you and Eileen both and hate to hear this going on. 
I'll hire a singer and tell her to sing badly, and post it if it will facilitate a truce!  :)
DonM
 
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Offline elad770

Re: A sad (partial) farewell
« Reply #22 on: January 14, 2020, 02:22:03 AM »
Torben, Let me just say this:
I've read your posts and the current one.
I honestly think you don't know what constructive criticism is
I don't think you have bad intentions and I'm positive
You have no desire to hurt anyone.  I just
Left a forum because people kept thinking
I'm saying something bad while they simply didnt understand
My English. They apologized but I know first hand how frustrating it is to be blamed for something you absolutely had no intention doing. I truly believe that you don't know what constructive criticism means thus, you don't know how to formulate such criticism and that's ok. I'm not angry and amazingly Eileen also responded to you calmly and respectfully but I would understand why others wont. 
"But......" means nothing! To repeatley say: "I want to be honest " I want to be frank" and no saying anything is NOT criticism. It's just provoking in order to get a reaction. Plus, the things you critice about ,(and it's not my first time I have to respond to you about it) are so not relevant. You criticized a memeber for uploading to.much!!! ?? Are you for real?
Over here I heard a Senior lady who was HOLDING A NOTE! let me repeat that: She was beatifully HOLDING A NOTE!
I know so many talented musicians who play for YEARS and can not hold a note like that!!!. And that's the only reason I mention the fact that she is a senior lady. Hearing and Vocal performances diminish naturally with age and the fact that she was HOLDING A NOTE!! Like that was impressive and inspiring to me. Also, the Genre of this type of ballads actually calls for a very monotonic type of singing. What you are referring to is the flavor of her voice! Yes , if I want to be honest all the way, it's not my cup of tea either but it's not the point and I will NEVER criticize on something so subjective.
If a memeber doesnt know how to sing, what is the constructive component in telling them DO NOT SING?
You can simply indicate what in the singing you don't like,  fir example: you can say: I think you should try sing from your diaphragm and not your throat.  Here's a link for you if you are interested.  You can say: The singing was off note for me. You should try to do such and such.
That is Constructive criticism!!!
To say: "But"....... Is empty word that only will deflate people and will cause tension and distance between members.
You should take time to reflect on everything that was said not just to stop posting.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2020, 02:23:04 AM by elad770 »
 
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Offline Joe H

Re: A sad (partial) farewell
« Reply #23 on: January 14, 2020, 02:40:23 AM »
Dear all

thank you. You fulfill my wildest expectations! :P ::)

Apparently it is not OK to criticize - but fine to criticize the critic ...  :) :)

Torben

Torben,

This is not the first time you have made such complaints about performances.  I think folks are commenting on your attitude.

 ;)

Joe H
Music is the Universal Language!

My Article: Using Multi Pads for EDM. Download Regs, Styles & MPs:  http://psrtutorial.com/music/articles/dancemusic.html
 
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Offline Wal Aussie

Re: A sad (partial) farewell
« Reply #24 on: January 14, 2020, 10:23:24 AM »
Hey guys and gals, c'mon, I thought this was a friendly forum, in fact generally I believe it is.
I am not a keyboarder, I am a singer, aged 82, who generally likes to sing to the music of our talented players.
Now if I in my opinion am not good at what I am singing or have not performed it right I am prepared to accept criticism and if I don't like what is said I just ignore it and go and sing another song that I hope I will do better.
Remember the old saying "sticks and stones".
Let's enjoy life with music and song eh!
« Last Edit: January 14, 2020, 11:22:41 AM by Wal Aussie »
 
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Offline mikf

Re: A sad (partial) farewell
« Reply #25 on: January 14, 2020, 04:25:05 PM »
Dear a
Apparently it is not OK to criticize - but fine to criticize the critic ...  :) :)
Torben
Torbem
It's not criticism which is the problem, it's being insensitive and inappropriate. It's OK for Simon Cowal to be insensitive on a TV program, because that is what people pay to see him do. But if someone does it around my dinner table that would be inappropriate, upset people and I would ask him to leave.
You seem to be the only person who doesn't see this.
Mike
 
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Offline SeaGtGruff

Re: A sad (partial) farewell
« Reply #26 on: January 14, 2020, 06:31:18 PM »
Regardless of whether or not Torben's comment was insensitive, there really is no call for anyone to send him mail wishing he would die soon.
Michael Rideout
Current keyboards: Yamaha YPT-400, PSR-E433, PSR-E443, PSR-EW400, MX49 BK
Current controllers: M-Audio Axiom 61-II
Previous keyboards: Farfisa Matador 611; Casio CTK-710
 

Offline Toril S

Re: A sad (partial) farewell
« Reply #27 on: January 14, 2020, 07:36:43 PM »
Absolutely not! Threats are unacceptable! I consider you, Torben, a good forum friend and a great musician. i just didn't like the way you commented on Eileen's performance. We got upset, but that does not give anyone a right to make threats!
Keep in mind that this forum have thousands of members. To keep everyone in check is not always easy. Fortunately most members here are sensible, stable people that can have an argument from time to time, but without doing something like that!
Toril S

Genos, Tyros 5, PSR S975, PSR 2100
and PSR-47.
Former keyboards: PSR-S970.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCLVwWdb36Yd3LMBjAnm6pTQ?view_as=subscriber



Toril's PSR Performer Page
 

Offline mikf

Re: A sad (partial) farewell
« Reply #28 on: January 14, 2020, 07:40:52 PM »
If Torben received any threatening or abusive personal messages via this website regardless of the reason, he should pass on the names to the moderators so they can deal with them appropriately.
Mike

Offline Bill

Re: A sad (partial) farewell
« Reply #29 on: January 14, 2020, 07:48:16 PM »
If indeed Torben has received Death Threats in Emails, he should do 1 of 2 things.

1. Report the matter to the police,
2. Send a copy of the Emails to one of the Administrators who can then take appropriate action (Ban them from the Forum)

Apart from that I do not have any further sympathy towards him. 
Although he has a small point about every reply to a musical posting being "It was great".  This sort of response does not achieve anything.
Everyone who posts needs to had a degree of Empathy.  One can offer advice on what they consider would have improved the performance or simply tick the "Thankyou" button.

As for the rather Pompous attitude of making statements like I'm the best keyboard player in the forum -  it just Sucks to me.  He might be and also have the best singer BUT it is the entertainment value that counts.   I do not normally listen to any performances on any forum, but since this thread was started I have listened to a few (not totally through from beginning to end)  and I have to say that performances like Summertime left me COLD.

Regards

Bill
England

GENOS
 

Offline beykock

Re: A sad (partial) farewell
« Reply #30 on: January 14, 2020, 09:54:35 PM »
Torben is absolutely not the best keyboard player of this forum nor a professional musician.

He might think, believe and dream he is ... but he is not and never will be.

Torben is an amateur, a home player, just like most of us.

Maybe he will start a new forum ... who knows. 😎

Babette
« Last Edit: January 14, 2020, 10:52:50 PM by beykock »
 
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Offline Toril S

Re: A sad (partial) farewell
« Reply #31 on: January 14, 2020, 10:10:04 PM »
We don't know that, Babette. But all I know is that there are many professional musicians on this forum, and they are doing their best to help us amateurs, so that we too can be better players. And that is the spirit of this forum. If you have perfected some skill, you should not look down on others that have not reached your level, but rather try to help them take a step in the right direction. Pro or amateur, PSR Tutorial is for everyone that enjoys their keyboard playing - and singing! It is the best forum ever.
I believe this will settle down, after all, we were good friends before the argument, let's keep it that way.
Toril S

Genos, Tyros 5, PSR S975, PSR 2100
and PSR-47.
Former keyboards: PSR-S970.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCLVwWdb36Yd3LMBjAnm6pTQ?view_as=subscriber



Toril's PSR Performer Page
 
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Offline elad770

Re: A sad (partial) farewell
« Reply #32 on: January 15, 2020, 12:27:20 AM »
I have a crazy theory:
I see Torebn giving likes to a lot of serious criticism here, including my own.

It makes me wonder if he's actually a sweet person who simply wanted to juice things up a little bit and create a discussion over Constructive criticism.  I do think that this discussion is important. We are tested during these moments of disagreement. Once in a while theres a topic that inflates everyone and I must say, i didnt come across even one comment that i thought to be improper which is another indication how well this forum functions.  If this thread was one big test, I think we passed!!!
« Last Edit: January 15, 2020, 12:29:12 AM by elad770 »
 

Offline ton37

Re: A sad (partial) farewell
« Reply #33 on: January 15, 2020, 03:33:39 AM »
PLEASE MODERATOR,  TAKE YOUR  RESPONSEBILITY AND CLOSE THIS POST. ENOUGHT SAID. Thank you.
My best regards,
Ton
---------------------------
Former KB:Technics Kn7000, Tyros 5/76, Genos, S770, S975.
 

Offline hammer

Re: A sad (partial) farewell
« Reply #34 on: January 15, 2020, 03:44:32 AM »
I TOTALLY AGREE- THIS THREAD HAS GONE WAY OFF TOPIC AND NEEDS TO BE OFFICIALLY CLOSED!! IN YEARS PAST NONE OF THIS WOULD HAVE BEEN ALLOWED.

DEANE

Offline Janus

Re: A sad (partial) farewell
« Reply #35 on: January 15, 2020, 04:02:50 AM »
Torben
Why don’t you stick to playing Instrumentals like you have done in the past
That’s more to what you can cope with.

You are not up to backing a vocalist
For this reason -
To back a vocalist you need a totally different ‘head’
You have to be good at ‘counter melody’ and a good ‘improviser.’
From what I hear from your recordings you haven’t this gift. (Sorry to say that)
So
Why don’t you do what you do best and Play them instrumentals and forget about backing vocalists.
A "win-win" situation.
Good luck

Pino

Pino
Why did you wait with this comment untill after the attack on Torben
It it like kill the wounded soldier

 

Offline Pino

Re: A sad (partial) farewell
« Reply #36 on: January 15, 2020, 05:22:31 AM »
Janus
With all due respects I did not "attack" Torben in any way.
I’ve listened to his music over the years, all good.
My point is
Backing a vocalist is more complicated,
Torben is good at instrumentals.
Why not stick with that?
Did I say something wrong?
Pino
SX900 - Ketron SD40 - Maui 5s
 

Offline Janus

Re: A sad (partial) farewell
« Reply #37 on: January 15, 2020, 07:58:28 AM »
You had do that earler but not now
makes all you earlear comments False
 

Offline Pino

Re: A sad (partial) farewell
« Reply #38 on: January 15, 2020, 08:56:26 AM »
Janus, Please read,
I did not follow all the posts here but I did listen to all of Torben music.

Every night I go out and play my arranger keyboard I get comments, good and bad. Playing an arranger keyboard has its limitations, playing midi is probably easier but not for me now.

I did Spain with a vocalist playing midi for 15 years, then bored.
The I decide to do only playing live with an arranger, it been good.
Where ever a musician is playing it’s like a magnet, people come to listen.

Torben flies to Spain to play his keyboard, he must be getting same comments as me.

Get into the real world
If he cannot stand the bad comments then don’t upload here
Do we need cottonwool here
Like
‘What a brilliant version’, ‘good listen,’every song, BS
If my music is not so good the please tell me, then I can change it.
I upload music her often.

Maybe there should be a PSR tutorial for over 60’s
And a PSR Tutorilas for under 60’s
Maybe this site should be named psrtutorlal4over60’s

Most of the replies her are form 70 and 80 year olds
Is that where we are now.
Where will this site be in 10 years
Please reply
« Last Edit: January 15, 2020, 09:29:38 AM by Pino »
SX900 - Ketron SD40 - Maui 5s
 
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Offline torben

Re: A sad (partial) farewell
« Reply #39 on: January 15, 2020, 10:34:06 AM »
I have a crazy theory:
I see Torebn giving likes to a lot of serious criticism here, including my own.

It makes me wonder if he's actually a sweet person who simply wanted to juice things up a little bit and create a discussion over Constructive criticism.  I do think that this discussion is important. We are tested during these moments of disagreement. Once in a while theres a topic that inflates everyone and I must say, i didnt come across even one comment that i thought to be improper which is another indication how well this forum functions.  If this thread was one big test, I think we passed!!!

OK Elad - finally someone found me out :)

I really do not care if Eileen sings out of tune or not (you can sing great songs out of tune and vice versa). I still believe however that her singing could need some training  :) - sorry!

My point was to start a discussion of the purpose of this Forums song section. Is it only to be a back-padding section where every song s "great", "fantastic" etc. etc. Or are we open to criticism. I know I am - otherwise I would not have started the discussion. I knew I would almost be killed  :'( But I am used to that by people unsatisfied by my judgements in court... so I will probably survive.

I did it also to show to you, how vicious and unrestrained some of the members really can be when the appearances/masks fall. Why not be frank and say what you really mean? If you think my songs are BS then for Heavens sake say it. Otherwise I have no way of knowing what I stand for.

I actually got the first useful advice here in a post describing how to accompany a singer by using the counter melody feature. Absolutely correct - if I was not accompanying an operasinger. No room for counter melodies in the Classics I am afraid ;D

Why do I call myself a "professional" musician someone asks? Well, I do it because I am paid a reasonable amount of money for playing regularly at parties and concerts. Whether I play good or bad as a "pro" is indifferent. You cannot be an amateur - in my world - if you play for money... But even a professional player can play badly. I could name a few :)

Maybe - to stop world war III to break out here (in stead of in the Middle East) - we should stop this thread now. Thank you all for your enthusiasm and have a great time. I hope some of you see my point, though. :) But (what a dangerous word!)- my dear friends - I am afraid that you've been had a little  ;)

Torben
Tyros 5 was my choice - now it is Tyros 5 AND Genos !
 

Offline Pino

Re: A sad (partial) farewell
« Reply #40 on: January 15, 2020, 11:52:48 AM »
Torben
Now I look at you as a bit of a ‘Snowflake’
I am from uk
I play Spain and Canary Islands for 15 years
You play hotel/restaurant Spain, yes.
First song , get applause
Second song , no applause, nothing, so what,
Get used to it
You’re a pro musician, yes
What’s all the fuss you making here? 🤔
« Last Edit: January 15, 2020, 12:05:28 PM by Pino »
SX900 - Ketron SD40 - Maui 5s
 
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Offline beykock

Re: A sad (partial) farewell
« Reply #41 on: January 15, 2020, 11:52:57 AM »
I am happy and pleased to hear you finally decided to stop this thread, Torben.

On the other hand you mentioned " Eileen " AGAIN in your last reply ...

How many ears must one man have to hear people cry ?
 


AMEN !

Babette
 
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Offline EileenL

Re: A sad (partial) farewell
« Reply #42 on: January 15, 2020, 12:08:33 PM »
Well Torben I think you could have achieved your goal a lot easier than this, if indeed this is what you intended. I must agree that constructive critique is a good thing and we do learn from it but some members just do not want it. I have had PM's from members who have complained that they just want to post songs, good or bad and get a pat on the back for it. These people also do not thank or comment on anyone else's songs either which to me is very bad manners. In the end I suppose we then all resort to not using the Song Section or just writing Nice, Lovely, Great, Smashing. It is very hard keeping everyone happy.

Offline Janus

Re: A sad (partial) farewell
« Reply #43 on: January 15, 2020, 01:27:01 PM »
When you get nice comments you give nice comments
The playing can be good or bad
Thats the wrong way
Better no comments at all or only on personel messages
Better take a look at the number of visits
That says more if they like the upload
 
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Offline Toril S

Re: A sad (partial) farewell
« Reply #44 on: January 15, 2020, 02:42:00 PM »
No, I like that people can give comments. Why not?
Toril S

Genos, Tyros 5, PSR S975, PSR 2100
and PSR-47.
Former keyboards: PSR-S970.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCLVwWdb36Yd3LMBjAnm6pTQ?view_as=subscriber



Toril's PSR Performer Page
 

Offline whataguy

Re: A sad (partial) farewell
« Reply #45 on: January 15, 2020, 04:17:34 PM »
Hey Torben don't quit, redefine your criticisms to 'helpful' hints. You yourself in the 4th paragraph of your last post came up with the 'best solution' when you referred to having learned how to accompany a singer. How about sharing some of your expertise with folks that may have started playing when you are winding down on a great career. You are probably an immense wealth of tips and tricks that can make a person whose playing sucks learn how to suck less. Show us how we too can play (and be paid) for as long as you have just a few little ditties and I promise everyone will say 'this great guy named 'Torben' showed me how to this and made me play alot better. Just saying . . . Don in MI
 
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Offline Toril S

Re: A sad (partial) farewell
« Reply #46 on: January 15, 2020, 04:21:56 PM »
Well said! I fully agree! Lets help and encourage each other!
Toril S

Genos, Tyros 5, PSR S975, PSR 2100
and PSR-47.
Former keyboards: PSR-S970.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCLVwWdb36Yd3LMBjAnm6pTQ?view_as=subscriber



Toril's PSR Performer Page
 
The following users thanked this post: torben

Re: A sad (partial) farewell
« Reply #47 on: January 15, 2020, 06:38:01 PM »
We shouldn’t get too carried away here with suggestions and comments, because this is largely just about common sense. No matter how Torben tries to dress it up or justify, its obvious to everyone that his comments were pretty rough, and unnecessary. It would have been better all round if he had just admitted this and apologized.
The arranger is a great instrument because good musicians can make impressive music by themselves, and learners and developing players can sound decent quite quickly. Over the years I have heard Torben develop into someone who can make listenable music, and kudos to him. He should take some satisfaction from that, but needs to keep it in context.  You can sound pretty decent on an arranger if you can competently play some lh chords and single finger rh melody, and that is great. But it doesnt make you a great or even good musician, because it’s relatively easy compared to traditional keyboard instruments, and largely simplistic. The musical gulf between the very small handful of really good musicians on this forum, like Andy G., and even people like Torben is not small. Its huge.
And this forum is not ‘the voice’ , and singing performances are completely incidental to the core function of this forum.
Mike

Thanks for a cheeky light hearted response, and hopefully no one takes offence.  This is our hobby, fun, pastime or career for some.  Keep your chins up everyone.  Keep the toys in the pram.

Keep well,

Colin
« Last Edit: January 15, 2020, 06:47:00 PM by Niceonetidy »
Previous, Technics E44, E66, U90, G7, GX7 G100, Tyros 2, Tyros 5, now Genos,
 

Offline Styles2psr

Re: A sad (partial) farewell
« Reply #48 on: January 15, 2020, 07:06:23 PM »
Well Torben I think you could have achieved your goal a lot easier than this, if indeed this is what you intended. I must agree that constructive critique is a good thing and we do learn from it but some members just do not want it. I have had PM's from members who have complained that they just want to post songs, good or bad and get a pat on the back for it. These people also do not thank or comment on anyone else's songs either which to me is very bad manners. In the end I suppose we then all resort to not using the Song Section or just writing Nice, Lovely, Great, Smashing. It is very hard keeping everyone happy.




EileenL:

I have been a member since 2013, but i have never comment on any topics from you.
As you know this is not my genre but just of curiosity i've listened to your song "By the Time I get to Pheonix",
and i have to say considering your age i'm very impressed wow!!! what a beautiful and smooth performance.
Professional or amateur at 84 i don't think someone else could do it better than you.

This is the twelfth time i've listen to the song and i'm still not bored, i have even bookmarked it. :)
Something about your voice and the song reminds me of good old times.

I think everyone here can agree on that EileenL are a very appreciated and important person of this forum.
Eileen ignore dumb and unnecessary comments just keep up the good work,

Regards, Jan.
 
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Offline XeeniX

Re: A sad (partial) farewell
« Reply #49 on: January 16, 2020, 01:08:02 AM »
I'd say BAH humbug but hey it is just not that time of year anymore,

Honestly? Some people should refrain from singing in public but..... (my but Torben not yours!) Who am I to err "judge"? I for one try to comment every once in a while on performances on this forum and try to level the comments to what is in my opinion the poster/performer's level.

So, kind comments to those trying but perhaps not (always) succeeding just because they do their best (I'm one of those btw). And a little more detailed (positively criticized) comments to those who are "in my opinion" the better performers (guys like Ryszack for example) or even the professional performers.

No need in telling people they shouldn't sing or play since I can simply skip listening if I do not like it and ... because I think it is not up to me or anyone else to decide that. There's already enough sh*t going on in this world (pardon my French). No need to create more here.....

regards,
Peter
« Last Edit: January 16, 2020, 01:11:06 AM by XeeniX »