Author Topic: Left hand style question  (Read 2640 times)

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Left hand style question
« on: January 11, 2020, 04:21:02 PM »
Hi everyone,

I noticed that some of the styles play strings and bass notes in the left hand below the split point with the Rhythm off but the ACMP button on. Is this style dependant or can it be applied to any style? The reason this would be so handy is for when I back up a singer and they want to sing the last few bars ad-lib. I could cut the style using Ending I and then play the left hand with bass and strings, and the right-hand piano parts.

If I remember, it seems there was a way to make this happen on any style with my PSR3000 and all my Tyros keyboards. I'm stumped on this one. Can it be done with the Genos? Thanks...

- Lee
 

Offline panos

Re: Left hand style question
« Reply #1 on: January 11, 2020, 05:55:42 PM »
Hi Lee,
there should be an option to have these sounds of strings & bass as a default(always the same voices no matter what the style is)
or they could be the voices of the bass and the pad channel of the current style.
Press Access button then press Main A and search for these kind of options or similar:
STOP ACMP :OFF /STYLE/FIXED


Offline DerekA

Re: Left hand style question
« Reply #2 on: January 11, 2020, 07:30:30 PM »
MENU > Style Setting

The default Style page that comes up has a setting STOP ACMP

From the reference manual:

• Off: The chord played in the chord section will not sound.

• Style: The chord played in the chord section will sound via the Voices for the Pad channel and the Bass channel of the selected Style.

• Fixed: The chord played in the chord section will sound via the specified Pad/Bass channels’ Voices, regardless of the selected Style.

NB I'm not sure what they mean by 'specified' in the Fixed option. Previous model's manuals say this too. It seems to be same bass / pad voices on all models in the Fixed mode. But I don't know what they are.
Genos
 
The following users thanked this post: Lee Batchelor

Re: Left hand style question
« Reply #3 on: January 11, 2020, 11:46:05 PM »
Thanks, guys! I'll give these suggestions a try and post back.
 

Offline DrakeM

Re: Left hand style question
« Reply #4 on: January 12, 2020, 12:49:09 PM »
Lee,

If you figure it out, please post how it all works. I have run into this problem before too.


Re: Left hand style question
« Reply #5 on: January 12, 2020, 07:58:28 PM »
Okay, I did some work on this and Dekek A, thanks for posting the notes from the Manual.

For the Style option, the left-hand background inherits the voices specified by the user's settings in the mixer. For the Fixed option, they say, "via the specified Pad/Bass channels’ Voices, regardless of the selected Style." In the typical unclear way Yamaha often expresses things, I believe they really mean that the background voices are set yo Yamaha's "default voices for the left-hand" sounds when the style is set to Off and the ACMP is still on. I don't see any method for altering those voices. To be fair, they're pretty generic and workable. So all things considered, I can make use of this feature for songs where I need to follow a singer ad-lib, and I have lots of them!!

Now the bad news >:(!
Once again, we have another feature that would be so handy to set on most registrations BUT to make it work, we need to modify these registrations one at a time.......again!!! I'm sure Yamaha realizes the immense power of registrations. I don't see how anyone - including the very occasional home player - can get by without using them. So we have a monster called, "Registrations" but no way to control them. I was praying that Murray Best's program would have a feature where we could modify all Style Settings on our PC or Mac. An hour or two in front of the computer would probably do it. His program does a lot of things but not this. I was also hoping I could use a Freeze setting but that's a bust too.

So Yamaha, if you're reading this - we need an external registration editor for serious players!! I'd be happy to buy the darn thing!!!!!!!!!
 

Offline dinapoli

Re: Left hand style question
« Reply #6 on: January 17, 2020, 02:17:33 PM »
You could try to make a registration without ACC and strings in the left hand.

You can also try to leave the style, simply stop it when you want.  Lower the octave on the right hand, include strings as one of the sounds of the right hand.

If I recall on my tyros there was a way to define the keys that sound could be played, I am sure it can be done on this keyboard.
 

Re: Left hand style question
« Reply #7 on: January 17, 2020, 02:24:05 PM »
Thanks, Dinapoli.

Your second suggestion would work but it's nice to have bass included. Also, there's often little time to make those adjustments, depending on how fast the singer engages the final phrases. I suppose I could assign your changes to another available registration button but there again, I need to do that one registration at a time, on the Genos.

We still need an external registration editor. It would solve a lot of headaches on a keyboard that boasts professional quality sounds but with several outdated operations.
 

Offline EileenL

Re: Left hand style question
« Reply #8 on: January 17, 2020, 04:40:45 PM »
Why not try using some of the Free Styles. These styles are made for rubato playing and following a singer this way.

Re: Left hand style question
« Reply #9 on: January 17, 2020, 06:18:27 PM »
Good idea, Eileen. I have used a few of those and that certainly solves the problem. Most of the songs are light Jazz standards and Ballads hence, have rhythms.
 

Offline DrakeM

Re: Left hand style question
« Reply #10 on: January 19, 2020, 04:58:19 PM »
I have run into this problem a couple times for my songs.

What I have done to get what I need is to first create my custom style. Then go through all my on board styles until I find a style that has the Left Hand voice I need. Then I more all the parts from my custom style into the style that has the Left hand voice in it. I use "copy and Paste" for each of the parts to do this.

Yes, it takes a while but "mission is accomplished."  ;)

I have spent more time trying to figure out what was going on, than what it took to just move the style parts.  ;D

Regards
Drake

Re: Left hand style question
« Reply #11 on: January 20, 2020, 01:43:59 PM »
Good idea, Drake. We still need a decent piece of software for large batch operations or at least, much faster ways to modify our registrations.

Thanks ;).
 

Offline Fred Smith

Re: Left hand style question
« Reply #12 on: January 20, 2020, 07:42:24 PM »
Good idea, Drake. We still need a decent piece of software for large batch operations or at least, much faster ways to modify our registrations.

Sounds like a good project for you, Lee.

Cheers,
Fred
Fred Smith,
Saskatoon, SK
Sun Lakes, AZ
Genos, Bose L1 compacts, Finale 2015
Check out my Registration Lessons
 

Re: Left hand style question
« Reply #13 on: January 20, 2020, 09:07:54 PM »
Hi Fred,

If only I had the knowledge to unlock the very secretive code Yamaha uses to handle their registrations internally on the Genos. I spoke with Murray Best, who is our current Genos Guru on the subject, and it took him and a few other guys from all over the planet to just scratch the surface.

Yamaha is amazing but a pain in the backside at times with their ways of doing things. As I mentioned, I'd pay decent coins for such a program. Surely to God, they could come up with something!!!
 

Offline Oxford1035

Re: Left hand style question
« Reply #14 on: January 20, 2020, 11:59:39 PM »
Hi Lee,

As you say you need rhythm for Jazz pieces etc, can't you use whatever rhythms saved in one registration and use  one of the free styles as Eileen suggested saved in another registration for the ending?

Kind regards,

Russ
« Last Edit: January 21, 2020, 12:01:00 AM by Oxford1035 »
 

Re: Left hand style question
« Reply #15 on: January 21, 2020, 12:53:45 AM »
I'm sort of doing that now, Russ. I usually have a few registration buttons left over, so I program one of them to accompany the singer with appropriate settings (no rhythm). The problem is and we are all aware of it, the transition between registrations of differing styles is far from seamless. You can't just chop off one style and hope for the best.

Thanks for the idea!
 

Offline cando614

Re: Left hand style question
« Reply #16 on: March 02, 2020, 09:38:27 PM »
Lee the feature you're referring to is called "Stop Accompaniment."
The reason some styles don't work, is because their bass and/or pad tracks are populated with MegaVoices, or voices that have unsuitable ADSR characteristics.
The default voices for "Fixed" are a bass and string pad.  I agree they're pretty weak and lo-res.

I also agree with the suggestions proffered above.  Start with a Freestyle like Ethereal Movie.  Pare out everything but a couple of string pads (Chord tracks) and the Bass track.  Save it to an easily accessible registration.

Now when you want basic, no-rhythm accompaniment after the main song style ends, call up your custom registration, and it should do exactly what you want.  For complete rubato play, you could (and probably should) specify a sync stop "window."

If you get it all working it would be great to see a demo, or share the edited style.  Good topic!!
« Last Edit: March 02, 2020, 09:48:25 PM by cando614 »
 

Re: Left hand style question
« Reply #17 on: March 02, 2020, 10:33:18 PM »
Thanks for the idea, Cando614. I shall try your idea. I'm in the middle of learning all about recording the Genos to Cubase. There are SO many trapdoors!!!!!
 

Offline dinapoli

Re: Left hand style question
« Reply #18 on: April 17, 2020, 04:59:20 PM »
I use free styles many times at the beginning of songs then go to another Registration, works well for me.  You can change all the voices in a style including in free styles.

 When I had the Tyros I remember setting the split and limit the upper and lower notes the keyboard would play.  I even remember transposing the percussion because I wanted the cymbal on a note I wanted it to play.

When I create a new Registration, I usually go over a similar Registration, then simply change the style, speed, key, sounds etc Save the new Registration in memory.  To save the new Registration I just press on another Registration, the keyboard will ask me THE REGISTRATION HAS CHANGED DO YOU WANT TO SAVE IT?  I click yes, it will ask if you want to save it here, I change the name and save it.  Now I have the old registration and the new one.  I know it may sound complicate but once you use as a method it becomes very quick!

I also have a Registration I named 0000 I can use it as a guide for the things important to me to have in a Registration.

With this method I don't need to change anything in the settings.  I decided what was important to have when I did my first Registration.

I name my Registrations with the name of the song I want to use them for.  I put a number in front of the name of the song, the number will tell me if it is a Napulitane song, an Italian song or an English song  the same numbers could be used for different genre of music.  It will make finding of a Song/Registration very quick.

It works for me.