Topic: Practicing a song through midi

[Wil5560]

Probably this question is not relevant for all experienced players, but hope you can share your knowledge .

My question is related to practicing a song received in midi format. I know i can eg mute the channel 1 or 4 so that i can practice the right hand and play together with the midi song.

However i would also like to practice the left hand with chords. I have tried muting different channels from the midi file, but when only turning on ACMP, it will not work.

If possible i would like to playalong with the midi and practicemy left hand as well.

How can this be achieved?
Please share your way of working

Kind regards

[Janus]

Make a midi setup
Go to function midi
Mute the channels you don't need
save the setup
The midi setup is a global setup stays on until you chance to another midi setup

[Wil5560]

Thanks for the reply and help.
However i am not sure yet if I understand this.......because when I mute certain channels, and I play the Midi song, how can I play and practice the chords at the same time?
should I select a rhythm first (a style), and press the ACMP so that I can play the chords?
or how should i combine this when the midi is playing at the same time?

(sorry for maybe my simple question, but i am not that experienced yet)

[Wim]

Or Use the Song guide Function.  An explanation how it works and how helpfull it can be watch the video. It is in German but by watching you can get an impression. At the page scroll down a little to the second pic where you can start the video.

https://www.keyboard-akademie.de/2019/10/16/die-song-guide-funktion-power-tipp/

rgds Wim

[Janus]

you dont need the amcp
start the midi file and play along
take a perf with a split to play left and right with different voices

it is also possible to activate the amcp
send a midi track from the midi file with chords useal the strings track with minimun 3 notes chords
to chord reconice usb midi in 2 in the midi edit setup mode
or use yamaha midi files with mega chords events

[alans]

Hi Wil5560

I will give you my opinion on this but please disregard my post  if it is not what you desire to do or someone else gives you a better solution to your problem.

A midi will play in the key that it was recorded in,you cannot regard it as a style as those installed on the keyboard,although I believe there are programs to convert midi to a style.
It is not ,as far as I know,possible to play a keyboard style along with a midi,although you can play keyboard voices,
You could play ie.a piano part along with the midi once you find the key of the midi,and this piano or strings part can be played in any position on the keyboard if you turn off ACPM.

I may be totally wrong with this solution but probably someone else will come up with a solution to your problem

Best wishes

Alan

[DrakeM]

From your original post, it sounds like someone sent to you a MIDI file of a song and YOU want to play chords along with the MIDI.

It seems you have a GENOS keyboard.

Take the MIDI file and record it using your keyboard's WAV recorder and make an MP3 file of the song.
Now you can follow along using your left hand with the song using your keyboard. If the MIDI was made using a style (that you have) you can even follow along using the style. You can lower the MP3 volume to where you can hear your left hand playing to check that what you are doing is correct.

I use this technique when setting up custom song styles in order to match them up to the original artist's recording. 

Regards
Drake

[EileenL]

Personally I think it far better to select a suitable style and practice your chords this way. When you have got them so you don't have to think about them then try adding the right hand melody. Far better way to learn than via midi file.

[Janus]

Hi Wil5560

I will give you my opinion on this but please disregard my post  if it is not what you desire to do or someone else gives you a better solution to your problem.

A midi will play in the key that it was recorded in,you cannot regard it as a style as those installed on the keyboard,although I believe there are programs to convert midi to a style.
It is not ,as far as I know,possible to play a keyboard style along with a midi,although you can play keyboard voices,
You could play ie.a piano part along with the midi once you find the key of the midi,and this piano or strings part can be played in any position on the keyboard if you turn off ACPM.

I may be totally wrong with this solution but probably someone else will come up with a solution to your problem

Best wishes

Alan
[/quote
It is possible to play along with the acpm with a midi file
Take a track from the midi file with chords mimimum 3 notes at once
When you use yamaha midi files with mega chords events
Send that track to the chords regonize
midi usb 1 is for song replay midi usb 2 is for arranger recieve

[DrakeM]

I believe he knows his CHORDS but like many beginner players their TIMING is off. In order to learn how to do it is to play with someone better than himself who is playing the piece correctly. I learned how to hear the chord changes by playing with other musicians when learning to play a guitar.

[Janus]

I believe he knows his CHORDS but like many beginner players their TIMING is off. In order to learn how to do it is to play with someone better than himself who is playing the piece correctly. I learned how to hear the chord changes by playing with other musicians when learning to play a guitar.

Nobody can play on correct time
a keyboard is a computer works with milli seconds
You are always milli secons of time
Take a look on a keyboard recorded midi file
All chords are of time mille seconds
You can hear it the best on attact voices like piano
For life play is does not matter
but when you make a recording the song must be perfect

And when you look with a sequencer in the piano track you will see little cutoff notes
on the chord change points
It is a **** of work to remove those mistakes
I do it on a difference way
Load the recorded midi file in a software sequencer
Set the chords on time and rerecord the song with the same style or another style

[Wil5560]

Thanks again. But is my understanding correct, that the Song guide function in the Genos only works towards the voices played in the right hand and that there is not such a feature / function how to practice the chords?
Even if in the display the score and chords are shown (midi XT file from Yamaha), I still would not know how to mute the chords and practice these separately, like I would also first practice my right hand before playing with both hands.
Even after reading the above replies (and thanks for this), I am still confused and if somebody can explain this in step by step that would be great.
On youtube channels I can find various examples of muting the voice for the right hand (and using the guide function), but I have found nothing explaining the chord piece of the midi and how to mute, so that I can practice them myself with the Genos etc.

[Janus]

you have to do everything in a midi setup
try by try and error to to learn it
mute te tracks you dont want ny muting tracks on usb midi 1  song replay
set the recieve channels on usb midi 2 arranger an chord recieve from midi 1 song replay

[panos]

Hi Wil5560,
let's clear some things.
When we are playing with our left hand with a style, we "control" several (midi) channels.
the bass channel,two chord channels,pad channel,two phrase channels and the muptipad channels.
So when we use the record function to create a midi song by playing with a style,at least 7 channels(instruments) are played just by our left hand.

Now,let's say that we want to play along with that midi.
We should mute those 7 channels.Right?
If we play with a style(while the midi is playing along we press the start button of the style part) the style will follow the chords of the midi,not the chords you are playing.
Not a good idea for practicing that way our left hand.
Maybe there is a way with midi orders and midi cables etc that can be done but better leave that option aside.

You could use a way that mentioned above to practice the left hand.
a) choose a voice,watch the chords the midi is displaying and hit them at the right timing while timing is playing.
The volume of the voice should be loud enough so you can hear when you are making a mistake.

b) Practice your left hand by playing just with a style.There is no need to be a melody line to practice.
You know the chords,hit them at the right timing.
There is no need to be a robot to find the exact millisecond.We don't play like robots, neither we will sound perfect if we play that way anyway.

c) Practice your left hand without a style or a midi and a rhythm.
Just press the correct chords at the correct timing.
When you feel ok,you could use the metronome to perfect your timing or use a style and mute all channels except from the rhy1 or rh2 channel.
When you feel that you are playing ok, add a melody with your right hand at your tempo at first.

Keep in mind that even if there would be a way to play the chords as you wish with a midi, you wouldn't practice your left hand properly to play an arranger keyboard with styles.
You must also practice your left hand to leave the keybed,push a button and then play the next chord.
Same with the right hand.Change the voices and keep playing.
Unless you don't want to learn to play with styles just with midis, but in that case there is no need for your left hand to learn to play "chords".

[Toril S]

I use MIDIS for practice, but only to get the melody line right. I just play along with the midi with my right hand, and by doing that, I can hear what notes I play right or wrong. As for the chords, I usually hear what chords are played. If not, you can maybe use an EZ play book or something. Some MIDIS let you see the chords on the screen, but not all.

[mikf]

Best way to learn lh chords - turn off accompaniment so there is no timing to worry about. Hum the tune to yourself while you play the chords. Take your time to begin with. When you think you have it reasonable, turn on accompaniment and hum to yourself while playing the style.  Now you are doing it in time.  When you think it’s reasonable, switch on record and record accompaniment only. Then play the recording while you practice the rh part. Then try playing live together, use a slower tempo at first if necessary.
Playing with the midi to learn is not a great idea because you have to stay in time, and when practicing sometimes you need to be able to miss a bar or two to catch up, or repeat a phrase over and over that’s giving you problems.
Mike

[Toril S]

Good advice Mike. I do it this way too. I will just add: Don't give up! It is so fun when you finally get it right! Happy playing!

[Lee Batchelor]

I would like to offer some ideas strictly from a musician's point of view. Regardless of the methods you use to practice - be it an MP3 or MIDI file, the key is to get your timing right. There are only three timing possibilities: on time, slightly delayed, or rushed.

Playing 100% on time is possible but not likely. It also creates a very sterile sound - hence why people who quantize their score timing 100% create accurate tracks but not "music." On the other hand, playing ahead of the beat makes you sound like an amateur. There's nothing worse in music than someone who "pushes or rushes" the beat.

For me, the best approach is to play slightly behind the beat, especially when soloing. It makes it sound deliberate and that you know what you are doing. If you run out of ideas, it buys you time. You also create a feel that allows listeners to fill in the "metric blanks" themselves. They create their own emotional timing conection to the song. In other words, listeners can interpret and feel your music according to their own terms and perceptual speed. When you rush, you force-feed musical information that nobody wants. One of the best examples of slightly delayed timing is the very fine trumpet playing of Harry James.

I hope I didn't drift off target with the original topic. It just seems that we get SO wound up in the "how" that we forget the "why" of what we're doing. When we concentrate on the "why" the "how" will come easily.

Opinions welcome of course !

[mikf]

Yes I agree Lee, playing or singing slightly behind the beat or the strict timing of the note does create a very confident relaxed feel. Especially when playing standards.
You still have to keep overall phases in time, and it’s something which good players do naturally by feel rather than actually deliberately playing behind. Almost a style thing rather than a technique.  But I don’t think learners should try to do this consciously, because they would probably just screw up the timing. Someone who is still at the stage of having to practice one hand at a time is probably not ready to develop this.
Mike

[Lee Batchelor]

Yes, I agree Lee, playing or singing slightly behind the beat or the strict timing of the note does create a very confident relaxed feel. Especially when playing standards.
You still have to keep overall phases in time, and it’s something which good players do naturally by feel rather than actually deliberately playing behind. Almost a style thing rather than a technique.  But I don’t think learners should try to do this consciously, because they would probably just screw up the timing. Someone who is still at the stage of having to practice one hand at a time is probably not ready to develop this.
Mike

Agreed, Mike. It's taken me 25 years and several lessons with pro players who really know their stuff, to develop a sense of timing that creates a nice feel in the music !! Surprisingly, my latest round of lessons has been about knowing what not to play, rather than trying to impress people with all kinds of fills and licks. It works and makes you really shine when it's your turn.

While we're on this topic - another thing that just drives me insane is when you have a great soloist, for example, sax, trombone, guitar...and they play a beautiful 16 or 32 bar solo, and then continue to "noodle" little licks after their solo. I HATE THAT!! Do your solo, and then take a rest, for the sake of the other players and especially, your listeners.

I've developed a habit of playing my solos in the mid to upper registers on the Genos. When I'm finished, I drop down to the low end of the piano and play half and whole notes - usually with the 3rd and octave only - just enough to identify the chord. After my solo, it's not my turn anymore!!! I'm of course referring to playing in a band with the Genos as a piano, E.piano, or B3.

[Janus]

There is a simple solution
Turn on part select left on
Now you got a voice  on your left hand to play along
Turn some channels of from the arranger you don't need
start with only bass and drums to keep track
Play only with your left hand chords to get the feel they are right
Start with only one chord

[Janus]

Yes I agree Lee, playing or singing slightly behind the beat or the strict timing of the note does create a very confident relaxed feel. Especially when playing standards.
You still have to keep overall phases in time, and it’s something which good players do naturally by feel rather than actually deliberately playing behind. Almost a style thing rather than a technique.  But I don’t think learners should try to do this consciously, because they would probably just screw up the timing. Someone who is still at the stage of having to practice one hand at a time is probably not ready to develop this.
Mike

Before af after the beat playing can't be done on a keyboard
The keyboard don't follow you en keep strict  timing
You have to follow the keyboard timing it is the master
Life playing is a lot better you are the master

[alans]

Hello Wil5560

Some really helpful suggestions have now been posted to help you with your problem,please let us know if they have been of any help for you.
You ask at the end of your original post how different people practice or learn a song,this is my way of doing it for what it takes.
First I select a song that I know well,I then select a string or pad sound for the left hand,this will give a sustained sound so will be easier to follow the song.Sing or hum the song to yourself and change the left hand chords at appropriate time,you will know when to change by the harmony,when you are satisfied you have the chords and timing fairly well you can select an appropriate style set at a fairly slow tempo to help with timing.When you are confident with this you can start to play the actual tune,always keeping it slow and not rushing it,gradually increasing the tempo until you hae got it down well
This is basically how I learn songs,not perfect but it works for me,to learn songs that you do not know well,try to listen to the tune on youtube,it makes it much easier to learn the song if you can hear where you are going wrong

Let us know how you are getting on

Best wishes

Alan

[mikf]

Before af after the beat playing can't be done on a keyboard
The keyboard don't follow you en keep strict  timing
You have to follow the keyboard timing it is the master
Life playing is a lot better you are the master

[mikf]

Before af after the beat playing can't be done on a keyboard
The keyboard don't follow you en keep strict  timing

It’s not a problem, it’s only the rh part that lags behind, the chords are still on time, and in any case this is often a tiny shift in timing. Pretty much all good players (and singers) do this on standards. As Lee says, being strict timing sounds mechanical and lacks expression.
Mike

[Lee Batchelor]

Before or after the beat playing can't be done on a keyboard
The keyboard doesn't follow you en keep strict  timing
You have to follow the keyboard timing it is the master
Life playing is a lot better you are the master

Only partially true, Janus . And you're right, the Genos doesn't care what you do. It goes happily along with the rhythm and tempo you set. The Genos is like a highly-trained orchestra. Both provide extremely accurate timing. The bands of the 40s and 50s who backed the great singers like Sinatra, Sammy Davis Jr., and Dean Martin, played their scores with incredible accuracy (or those players who couldn't were fired). Note how those singers never really stayed on the beat. That's more the idea I'm sharing.

When you play a solo voice against a really good rhythm section or the Genos, you can still use a relaxed style that injects the human feel into the song. In fact, for me, the more accurate the players, the easier it is to play against them. When the drummer and bass player are not "in the pocket" with each other, it's very difficult to solo against them. Solists need something to "push against." I've recorded in the studio where the drummer used a click track and the rest of the rhythm section played to him. It made for a very accurate set of tracks - almost identical to the Genos. Soloing was a pleasure.

Mike is certainly right though. It takes a lot of practice to get to that stage!

[markstyles]

You can learn a lot thru good MIDI songs, especially if it is well arranged, and performed.   When I first got my arranger kbd, (Tyros 3)  I recorded the midi parts the style generator played, into my DAW. I analyzed what they were doing, l and played along with them, copying what they did (do the best of my ability), and then comping along with it. 

It gave me much insight into 'how and what' each instrument should play like.  The mistake most keyboard players make when starting to play all instruments.  is they still play keyboard style, when trying to do a guitar, or flute, grr part.

[Lee Batchelor]

The mistake most keyboard players make when starting to play all instruments.  is they still play keyboard style, when trying to do a guitar, or flute, grr part

Correct, Markstyles. They also tend to forget that brass and woodwind players need to breathe between phrases. They can't just play continuously for five minutes like you can a piano or B3 organ!

[Toril S]

They sit in the keyboard, they don't have to breathe Just joking. We can make these instruments sound more and more authentic on these new keyboards, but it takes a lot of practice. I still struggle with it, but hope I will get there eventually. It is amazing what the keyboard can do if you have the skills to use the features correctly. I wish there was some keyboard class I could go to, but here there is no such thing.