Author Topic: Tyros 5 OS: is it possible to modify or add new functions ?  (Read 58009 times)

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Offline Seagull29

Tyros 5 OS: is it possible to modify or add new functions ?
« on: October 22, 2019, 09:21:50 PM »
Hello,
My question is simple: knowing that, apparently, the Tyros OS is based on Linux, is there a developer who has looked into the problem and tried to modify it and add functions to this OS? ?
It would be very fun !  8) 8) 8) 8)

Regards from Germany

Seagull29
 

Offline pjd

Re: Tyros 5 OS: is it possible to modify or add new functions ?
« Reply #1 on: October 23, 2019, 04:29:30 AM »
Hi Seagull29 --

As far as we know, Tyros 5 is not based on Linux. It is a contuation of the same code base as T4, T3, ...

Genos is the first of the arranger keyboard line which is based on Linux.

All the best -- pj
 

Offline pjd

Re: Tyros 5 OS: is it possible to modify or add new functions ?
« Reply #2 on: October 23, 2019, 04:36:50 AM »
Whoops, forgot to mention...

Some folks have taken a look into the Genos update package (easy to do with 7-zip, etc.)

The firmware is distributed as one big binary executable -- no source code.

In the synthesizer product line, Yamaha switched to Linux with the Motif XS (if memory serves me right). Although Yamaha published their additions to Monta Vista Linux, they have never published the source for the synthesis engine, the user interface, and the rest of the "application" components.

There is a chap who is investigating changes to Motif XS and is blocked due to the lack of source.

Sorry to have such negative news -- pj
 

Offline Robert van Weersch

Re: Tyros 5 OS: is it possible to modify or add new functions ?
« Reply #3 on: October 23, 2019, 07:29:50 AM »
Regardless of the OS on which the T5 is based, it is nigh impossible to really change an OS without access to the source. Since Yamaha has not released the source of any keyboard, making customized versions of the OS'es will probably be impossible.

(speaking as a 20+ years experienced software developer ;) )
---
Yamaha Tyros 5 76
Korg Liverpool (microArranger)
 

Re: Tyros 5 OS: is it possible to modify or add new functions ?
« Reply #4 on: October 23, 2019, 06:57:50 PM »
Since Yamaha has not released the source of any keyboard, making customized versions of the OS'es will probably be impossible.

(speaking as a 20+ years experienced software developer ;) )

Patching the existing firmware to run on the Tyros/PSR hardware without the source is impossible, and probably hopeless too even with the source. I suppose it is a mess of spaghetti code developed with 30 years old technologies and substantially never significantly updated in the last 20 years (no one dares to change anything in the fear to break the whole damned thing) . And it shows.

Probably even the microprocessor and the toolchain used was a dead end. That is why they abandoned everything and switched to Linux with the Genos. At least now they have a developed and maintained tool chain (GCC based). Unfortunately the code base (arranger functionality) is exactly the same as it was before, bit for bit.

On the other hand our company took a fresh start on the subject and developed from scratch, with modern technologies and concepts, a brand new realtime arranger engine. It is feature packed, has a nice vector based touch native UI, runs on Windows (tablets, notebooks, desktops) and uses the audio engine of any recent PSR/Tyros or Genos.

You can learn more here www.groovyband.live, download a demo and test it on your Yamaha arranger.
We also proactively listen to our (prospective) customers and readily implement worthwhile ideas. All the improvements we have delivered for free since the first revision, released less than one year ago, (see the changelog on our website) speak for themselves.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2019, 07:01:42 PM by groovyband.live »
 

Offline Robert van Weersch

Re: Tyros 5 OS: is it possible to modify or add new functions ?
« Reply #5 on: October 24, 2019, 07:34:43 AM »
@groovyband: Please stop replying in topics with irrelevant posts to promote your software.
---
Yamaha Tyros 5 76
Korg Liverpool (microArranger)
 

Re: Tyros 5 OS: is it possible to modify or add new functions ?
« Reply #6 on: October 24, 2019, 07:52:09 AM »
@groovyband: Please stop replying in topics with irrelevant posts to promote your software.

It is not irrelevant. The original poster was interested in "new functions" for his Tyros OS. We gave him an option to test an improved features set to exploit his hardware.

Maybe you are fully satisfied with what you have and Yamaha gave you. Good. Use what you have and move on. Life is short.

But this is not always the case for everyone. And probably they find our link more useful than the (totally irrelevant) info about your job position and career.  ;)
 

Offline Robert van Weersch

Re: Tyros 5 OS: is it possible to modify or add new functions ?
« Reply #7 on: October 24, 2019, 08:56:33 AM »
Dude, just be honest. Almost all of your 27 posts are about how great your software is. And that might be true, but that is not the question here. And I'm not talking about my career, just giving my opinion, as an experienced software engineer, on the user's question about Yamaha's arranger software. That's hardly talking about my position or career.
---
Yamaha Tyros 5 76
Korg Liverpool (microArranger)
 

Re: Tyros 5 OS: is it possible to modify or add new functions ?
« Reply #8 on: October 24, 2019, 12:14:59 PM »
And I'm not talking about my career, just giving my opinion, as an experienced software engineer, on the user's question about Yamaha's arranger software.

We too gave our opinion. But, unlike you, we were more constructive and proposed also a solution to sidestep the problem. And we did not pretend to judge who can or cannot post or what can or cannot say in the post.

P.S.: You are not the only experienced software engineer in town. We too have some experience in the field. But we did not say "I am the expert: it cannot be done!".
We simply did it, without saying we are the experts.
If someone is interested he/she can try a free demo. If someone is not interested he/she can simply ignore the post and go on. There are plenty of posts and threads in this forum to choose from .... And many other forums as well in the net.
 

Offline DerekA

Re: Tyros 5 OS: is it possible to modify or add new functions ?
« Reply #9 on: October 24, 2019, 12:29:55 PM »
Hey grooyband.

So if I understand correctly, you've written a Windows application which runs on a PC, and drives the Tyros hardware via MIDI. A bit like VConsole.

You've not modified the onboard Tyros OS, you've written an alternative UI.

What would be constructive - and I mean this genuinely - would be if you gave a brief summary of what additional features your product offers over and above what you can do with the OS built into the Tyros. I don't mean any UI shortcuts, or any tricks to use the song player to layer multiple voices, I mean something that you can do with your product that I cannot sit at my Tyros and do from its own control panel - an actual 'new' function.

(Hint - let's say using your software I could define an original arpeggio pattern and apply it to voice R3. Or say I could reach into a voice and alter the element structure, as per YEM. Or say I could define a control change pattern that would open and close the filter in real time on R2. These would be genuinely new functions that no Yamaha arranger can currently do.)

Thanks
« Last Edit: October 24, 2019, 12:44:55 PM by DerekA »
Genos
 

Offline Robert van Weersch

Re: Tyros 5 OS: is it possible to modify or add new functions ?
« Reply #10 on: October 24, 2019, 12:58:23 PM »
But we did not say "I am the expert: it cannot be done!".
We simply did it, without saying we are the experts.If someone is interested he/she can try a free demo. If someone is not interested he/she can simply ignore the post and go on. There are plenty of posts and threads in this forum to choose from .... And many other forums as well in the net.
My problem is that you're promoting your software all over the forum, under the pretense of anwering a question. But you're giving an answer to another question:
"Can you add new functionality to a Tyros with an additional computer and software". Yes, on that question your answer is possibly a correct solution.

But the question is: "knowing that, apparently, the Tyros OS is based on Linux, is there a developer who has looked into the problem and tried to modify it and add functions to this OS?". And to that question, there is just one answer: no.

So, no, you didn't.
« Last Edit: October 24, 2019, 12:59:32 PM by Robert van Weersch »
---
Yamaha Tyros 5 76
Korg Liverpool (microArranger)
 

Re: Tyros 5 OS: is it possible to modify or add new functions ?
« Reply #11 on: October 24, 2019, 03:56:43 PM »
What would be constructive - and I mean this genuinely - would be if you gave a brief summary of what additional features your product offers over and above what you can do with the OS built into the Tyros. I don't mean any UI shortcuts, or any tricks to use the song player to layer multiple voices, I mean something that you can do with your product that I cannot sit at my Tyros and do from its own control panel - an actual 'new' function.

1) You can hook a second midi keyboard controller + a pedalboard (or a 3rd keyboard) + a midi control surface and have the sound for all 3 keyboards/pedalboard automatically configured at style/registration change. You can assign commands to any midi controller (knob, button, slider, key). You can even "throw away" the built-in arranger keyboard and use 3 external keyboards/pedalboard (es: midi organ console). You can enter any parameter with your mouse and keyboard too (much easier when "programming"), and use the touch screen when performing.
2) You have 8 main variations fully configurable. You can seamlessly change the pattern played by any part in real time without stopping the sequencer. In seconds you can create a completely new orchestration and save it in any of the 8 main variations slots. You can copy the slots and reorder them (right from the main screen without stopping the sequencer). 8 fully configurable variations are often more than enough to fully arrange a song, making registrations unnecessary. (But they are still supported, and they actually save EVERYTHING).
3) You can alter any parameter (sends, pan, volume, voice, dsp effect, track mute, ...) independently for any variations (and intro/ending/fill/break). And you have a global visual feedback in the mixer right in front of you.
4) You have 2 breaks (simpler, busier). You can loop intros and endings. If you use an intro as a fill-in, the count in bars (if present) are automatically skipped.
5) The fills are context sensitive and take into account where you come from and where you go to. The breaks are context sensitive and takes into account what parts are actually playing (i.e.: they do not trigger an 8 parts accompaniment if you are just playing bass & drums, but later if you are playing an 8 parts section the break will react accordingly). You can sync fills and breaks to measure start even if you play them in advance. Half bar fill.
6) You have 8 OTSes. You can associate mains-OTS in the order you like (and change it as you see fit). You can decide independently for any OTS how to partition the 4 right hand parts. Normally they are L/R1/R2/R3, but any combination is possible.
7) You have 4 parts (saved with each style) that can be assigned to the second/third keyboard/pedalboard (split/layer fully configurable).
8 ) You have an advanced harmony function for EACH of the 4 right hand parts. You decide what notes are played in addition (or in substitution) of what is actually played.
9) Sound transition when changing OTS is almost smooth even if you keep playing the old notes while the OTS change. This function has been further dramatically improved in the upcoming new release.
10) You decide where (which tracks) the available DSPs are allocated. In PSR and Tyros you have a fixed partition between style and right hand parts. With our software this artificial limitation is gone. With the upcoming new release you can stack 2 insert DSPs in series in a single track.
11) The DSP editor is light years more advanced. You can change every parameter in seconds, change your mind. Mix and match. Save your presets, ....
12) ......
13) ......
......
999) .....


We have only scratched the surface. You can read https://www.groovyband.live/features/429/ for a more in depth discussion. We also have an online manual (https://www.groovyband.live/user-manual/) which is the definitive reference.

And do not underestimate the touch enabled vector graphics UI. On a modern 12" (or bigger) high resolution tablet/laptops it looks fantastic and is really a pleasure to use.

Feel free to ask more if needed.
« Last Edit: October 24, 2019, 04:08:31 PM by groovyband.live »
 
The following users thanked this post: beykock

Offline beykock

Re: Tyros 5 OS: is it possible to modify or add new functions ?
« Reply #12 on: October 24, 2019, 04:16:07 PM »
Hi GB :

Sounds very interesting. 🍀

Would like to download a trial version of this prog.
Does it exist and where to be downloaded ?

Is it your intention to update/upgrade your prog regulary and add more new features ?

Thank you for your reply.
Best wishes, Babette
« Last Edit: October 24, 2019, 04:17:58 PM by beykock »
 

Re: Tyros 5 OS: is it possible to modify or add new functions ?
« Reply #13 on: October 24, 2019, 05:50:05 PM »
Babette;

Go to the link provided.
If you be a real Seeker after Truth.
It is necessary that at least once in your Life,
You doubt, as far as possible, all things.
_________________________________________________ _______________________
Tyros 5, HS5's, HS8S, Cubase 9.5
 
The following users thanked this post: beykock

Offline Joe H

Re: Tyros 5 OS: is it possible to modify or add new functions ?
« Reply #14 on: October 24, 2019, 08:38:30 PM »
It is not irrelevant. The original poster was interested in "new functions" for his Tyros OS. We gave him an option to test an improved features set to exploit his hardware...

After all...this is a KEYBOARD forum.  Most of us want to play the arranger as a keyboard and NOT computer software.  Sounds like a "Band in a Box type software.

I think there is a board especially for discussing software... but this board is NOT the place to do it. Maybe the Moderator will move it to the appropriate board.

 ;)

Joe H
« Last Edit: October 24, 2019, 08:40:36 PM by Joe H »
Music is the Universal Language!

My Article: Using Multi Pads in registrations. Download Regs, Styles & MPs:  http://psrtutorial.com/music/articles/dancemusic.html
 

Offline Gunnar Jonny

Re: Tyros 5 OS: is it possible to modify or add new functions ?
« Reply #15 on: October 24, 2019, 09:46:42 PM »
..... I think there is a board especially for discussing software... but this board is NOT the place to do it. Maybe the Moderator will move it to the appropriate board.

 :o

Why not as long as it is Genos related?
Those who don't want to read can easily just go to next post that is of interest.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I think there was posts about this issue some time ago, and also that it was OK by site owner?
Cheers 🥂
GJ
_______________________________________________
"Success is not counted by how high you have climbed
but by how many you brought with you." (Wil Rose)
 

Offline Joe H

Re: Tyros 5 OS: is it possible to modify or add new functions ?
« Reply #16 on: October 25, 2019, 01:33:18 AM »
:o

Why not as long as it is Genos related?...

First off, GroovyBand has nothing to do with Genos per se; it is computer software.

Secondly, all I said was there is an appropriate board for discussion of computer software... this is NOT the board to discuss software.

BTW... this is a Tyros 5 board, not a Genos board.

Joe H
« Last Edit: October 25, 2019, 01:34:50 AM by Joe H »
Music is the Universal Language!

My Article: Using Multi Pads in registrations. Download Regs, Styles & MPs:  http://psrtutorial.com/music/articles/dancemusic.html
 

Offline Robert van Weersch

Re: Tyros 5 OS: is it possible to modify or add new functions ?
« Reply #17 on: October 25, 2019, 05:19:26 AM »
I was told by Joe Waters that the user groovybands has been banned from the forum, for 30 days, for flooding the forum with promotional posts about his product. So don't expect another "answer" from him.
---
Yamaha Tyros 5 76
Korg Liverpool (microArranger)
 

Offline Gunnar Jonny

Re: Tyros 5 OS: is it possible to modify or add new functions ?
« Reply #18 on: October 25, 2019, 05:49:02 AM »

BTW... this is a Tyros 5 board, not a Genos board.


Wops, mixed it up with the G board. My mistake. :)
Cheers 🥂
GJ
_______________________________________________
"Success is not counted by how high you have climbed
but by how many you brought with you." (Wil Rose)
 

Offline Normanfernandez

Re: Tyros 5 OS: is it possible to modify or add new functions ?
« Reply #19 on: October 25, 2019, 08:15:16 AM »
In addition to this, Groovy Bands (Demo) Has a Computer Virus,

Just be Careful.
Norman.