Author Topic: What is the WAV ROM sample memory size for Yamaha sx900 inbuilt voices  (Read 3621 times)

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Offline Rashdezine

Hi Guys,

I'm planning on purchasing a professional arranger. Can someone tell me what is the WAV ROM sample memory size for the sx900 inbuilt voices?
 

Offline Rashdezine

Anyone?
 

Offline Pino

Why donít you download the specs from the Yamaha website?

Difficult or not 🤔

Pino
« Last Edit: May 19, 2020, 12:17:26 PM by Pino »
SX900 - Ketron SD40 - Maui 5s
 

Offline DerekA

Why donít you download the specs from the Yamaha website?

Difficult or not 🤔

Pino

That's a rather blunt comment Pino. I challenge you to point out where, exactly, on the Yamaha website this information is posted.
Genos
 

Offline EileenL

Most manuals and specs are on the Yamaha Download site for the model you have. You will find them where you download the updates from.

Offline DerekA

OK, let me spell it out, I don't think the specific information the OP asked for is published on the website. But I am happy to be corrected.
Genos
 

Offline EileenL

I must admit Derek it is a strange question to ask as the space is what it is and can not be altered in anyway, unless the member meant how much space for  loading sampled voices.
 

Offline DerekA

Comparing the actual size of the onboard samples between models *can* be an indicator of the relative range and quality of voices.

30 years ago, my Korg workstation had about 6MB of onboard samples. The SX likely has something in the GB range.
Genos
 

Offline Joe H

In the 1990s manufacturers would list the wave ROM size for most instruments because it was a marketing strategy, now it's a mute issue.  This has never been a part of the specifications in the arranger keyboards.  Now it's the User wave (expansion pack) memory that counts.

Joe H
Music is the Universal Language!

My Article: Using Multi Pads in registrations. Download Regs, Styles & MPs:  http://psrtutorial.com/music/articles/dancemusic.html
 

Online overover

Hi Guys,

I'm planning on purchasing a professional arranger. Can someone tell me what is the WAV ROM sample memory size for the sx900 inbuilt voices?

Hi Rashdezine,

on Genos, PSR-S970/770 and PSR-SX900/700 models, the internal "Wave ROM" is called "Wave NAND Flash". This is not a "fixed" ROM, but the wave content could theoretically be changed via firmware update. Please note also, that this memory is NOT completly full of Preset Wave data. (There is still some free space.)

The memory used here is the same type of "NAND Flash" that is used for the Expansion Wave memory on Genos, S970/770 and SX models. The (theoretically) maximum available memory size for Preset Wave data can be calculated if you substract the Expansion Wave size (red letters) from the complete NAND Flash size (blue letters).

I just made this list for your information. Please see also the attached picture: :)


                           Genos        PSR-SX700     PSR-SX900       PSR-S770       PSR-S970
                           ---------    ----------    ----------      ---------      ---------
Wave NAND Flash (MBytes)   4096         624 max.      1024 max.       352 max.       1536 max.
(for Preset Wave data)]                 (= 1024-400(= 2048-1024)   (= 512-160)    (= 2048-512)


                    PSR-S750    PSR-S950    Tyros5
                    --------   --------    --------
Wave ROM (MBytes)   256         256         768



Hope this helps!

Best regards,
Chris
« Last Edit: May 19, 2020, 05:48:39 PM by overover »
 
The following users thanked this post: DerekA, AndyMark, Rashdezine

Offline Pino

The original question was a valid one but to come back so quickly with a second post of "anyone," was out of order in my opinion.

Thereís a wealth of knowledge and experience on this forum but we are on different time zones and not everyone tunes in every day, to get an instant answer is not always possible, eventually someone will chime in and he would have had an answer, just needs a little patience.

There are no audio styles on my SX and all the audio recordings are on my USB stick, I have nearly 600mb of free space,
I have been sampling my Ketron SD40 voices the past few months, the multi samples are only few mbís so plenty of room for more voices, donít think I will be changing this keyboard for a while,
it has everything I need, ó 
well, - I have said this before, see how it goes.

Pino
SX900 - Ketron SD40 - Maui 5s
 

Offline Rashdezine

Comparing the actual size of the onboard samples between models *can* be an indicator of the relative range and quality of voices.

30 years ago, my Korg workstation had about 6MB of onboard samples. The SX likely has something in the GB range.

That's exactly what I was looking for. The quality of sounds depends on the sample size as well as the recording rigs and DSPs used for sampling process.
« Last Edit: May 19, 2020, 09:54:12 PM by Rashdezine »
 

Offline Rashdezine

In the 1990s manufacturers would list the wave ROM size for most instruments because it was a marketing strategy, now it's a mute issue.  This has never been a part of the specifications in the arranger keyboards.  Now it's the User wave (expansion pack) memory that counts.

Joe H

Well said Joe! It's like a treasure hunt.
 

Offline Rashdezine

Hi Rashdezine,

on Genos, PSR-S970/770 and PSR-SX900/700 models, the internal "Wave ROM" is called "Wave NAND Flash". This is not a "fixed" ROM, but the wave content could theoretically be changed via firmware update. Please note also, that this memory is NOT completly full of Preset Wave data. (There is still some free space.)

The memory used here is the same type of "NAND Flash" that is used for the Expansion Wave memory on Genos, S970/770 and SX models. The (theoretically) maximum available memory size for Preset Wave data can be calculated if you substract the Expansion Wave size (red letters) from the complete NAND Flash size (blue letters).

I just made this list for your information. Please see also the attached picture: :)


                           Genos        PSR-SX700     PSR-SX900       PSR-S770       PSR-S970
                           ---------    ----------    ----------      ---------      ---------
Wave NAND Flash (MBytes)   4096         624 max.      1024 max.       352 max.       1536 max.
(for Preset Wave data)]                 (= 1024-400(= 2048-1024)   (= 512-160)    (= 2048-512)


                    PSR-S750    PSR-S950    Tyros5
                    --------   --------    --------
Wave ROM (MBytes)   256         256         768



Hope this helps!

Best regards,
Chris

Thank you Chris! That is indeed a very good information. So I'm looking at 4GB of ROM size for preset sounds on Yamaha SX900  vs. 2GB of ROM preset sounds on the Korg pa1000. Is that true? Or am I missing something in my understanding?
 

Offline Rashdezine

The original question was a valid one but to come back so quickly with a second post of "anyone," was out of order in my opinion.

Thereís a wealth of knowledge and experience on this forum but we are on different time zones and not everyone tunes in every day, to get an instant answer is not always possible, eventually someone will chime in and he would have had an answer, just needs a little patience.

There are no audio styles on my SX and all the audio recordings are on my USB stick, I have nearly 600mb of free space,
I have been sampling my Ketron SD40 voices the past few months, the multi samples are only few mbís so plenty of room for more voices, donít think I will be changing this keyboard for a while,
it has everything I need, ó 
well, - I have said this before, see how it goes.

Pino

Thank you for taking the time to reply Pino 😊. Sorry if I was a little impatient on getting an answer. Some people would get really excited about purchasing a new gig and if they have challenges to pick one that suits their requirements, they would seek out for some help from professionals and instrument owners in an active forum like this. A friendly approach would have been much nicer to support a person who is looking out for a help.

On a side note, I am not looking for the internal memory size for storing additional samples or sounds.
 

Offline Rashdezine

I must admit Derek it is a strange question to ask as the space is what it is and can not be altered in anyway, unless the member meant how much space for  loading sampled voices.
 

Sorry Eileen if you feel that it's a strange question. It's not about altering the already installed memory size. The sample ROM size for preset voices is a decider element for me to pick the SX900 over the rest of its competitors.
 

Online overover

Thank you Chris! That is indeed a very good information. So I'm looking at 4GB of ROM size for preset sounds on Yamaha SX900  vs. 2GB of ROM preset sounds on the Korg pa1000. Is that true? Or am I missing something in my understanding?

Hi Rashdezine,

with modern keyboards like Genos or SX models, you can no longer compare the quality of the preset sounds based on the size of the internal memory used.

In the past, it could be concluded from a larger Wave ROM capacity that a certain device had a "better" sound (because e.g. samples with longer loops were used, which require more storage space). But such a way of thinking is now obsolete, because the actual sound depends not only on the size of the samples, but also on many other factors. I simply recommend letting your EARS decide whether a particular model meets your needs. In terms of sound quality, the GENOS is certainly at the forefront of Yamaha arranger keyboards, but then the SX models follow directly. :)

The maximum Wave NAND Flash size of SX900 is 2 GB including the 1 GB for Expansion Wave Data. Therefore the maximal memory for Preset Wave data is 1 GB. Only Yamaha knows how much memory the Preset Wave data actually occupy with the SX900 (and how much memory is unused).

In addition, Yamaha uses a highly efficient (lossless) data compaction process for Preset Wave data. Please read this article abour the MONTAGE Wave memory. Montage uses the same Tone Generator (SPW70) as PSR-SX, PSR-Sx7x and Genos.

>>> https://sandsoftwaresound.net/montage-wave-memory/


P.S.
The total sound quality also depends on the "Digital to Analog Converters" (DACs) used: GENOS uses 32-bit DACs for the Main Outputs (24-bit DACs for all other Outputs). All other current models (e.g. PSR-SX use 24-bit DACs only).

My recommendation: If you are in doubt, simply buy a GENOS ... :)


Best regards,
Chris
« Last Edit: May 19, 2020, 07:49:04 PM by overover »
 

Offline Rashdezine

Hi Rashdezine,

with modern keyboards like Genos or SX models, you can no longer compare the quality of the preset sounds based on the size of the internal memory used.

In the past, it could be concluded from a larger Wave ROM capacity that a certain device had a "better" sound (because e.g. samples with longer loops were used, which require more storage space). But such a way of thinking is now obsolete, because the actual sound depends not only on the size of the samples, but also on many other factors. I simply recommend letting your EARS decide whether a particular model meets your needs. In terms of sound quality, the GENOS is certainly at the forefront of Yamaha arranger keyboards, but then the SX models follow directly. :)

The maximum Wave NAND Flash size of SX900 is 2 GB including the 1 GB for Expansion Wave Data. Therefore the maximal memory for Preset Wave data is 1 GB. Only Yamaha knows how much memory the Preset Wave data actually occupy with the SX900 (and how much memory is unused).

In addition, Yamaha uses a highly efficient (lossless) data compaction process for Preset Wave data. Please read this article abour the MONTAGE Wave memory. Montage uses the same Tone Generator (SPW70) as PSR-SX, PSR-Sx7x and Genos.

>>> https://sandsoftwaresound.net/montage-wave-memory/


P.S.
The total sound quality also depends on the "Digital to Analog Converters" (DACs) used: GENOS uses 32-bit DACs for the Main Outputs (24-bit DACs for all other Outputs). All other current models (e.g. PSR-SX use 24-bit DACs only).

My recommendation: If you are in doubt, simply buy a GENOS ... :)


Best regards,
Chris

Thanks Chris! Now I see what you mean in terms of the 1 GB ROM size on Sx900. That's exactly what I was looking for!

I don't have the money to spend on buying Genos now. I primarily use my DAW and vsts for my song compositions. I just need a decent arranger for some live shows and bread & butter sounds for movie scores and ambient songs. I'm also considering Modx (although not an arranger) alongside SX900 and Pa1000. Modx would come in handy for some experimental tunes alongside the usual bread and butter stuff. (Dual purpose rig maybe)

I heard that the acoustic instrument sounds are better on SX900 than on the Modx. What is your opinion about Modx AWM 2 sounds compared to the SX900 ones?
« Last Edit: May 19, 2020, 09:56:01 PM by Rashdezine »
 

Offline EileenL

All I can say is that the Yamaha voices in these new instruments are the tops and very realistic in the way they sound. Always the best way to decide is to listen and play one.

Offline Pino

Iíve re-tuned this Beach Boys style using some of the new voices on the SX, I need to spend a bit more time to balance the levels and FX and then it will be ready for go, the audio will give you some idea of the new voices.

Pino

https://app.box.com/s/sc7ahe1m38vun55gndl76rf5d10sus7m
« Last Edit: May 20, 2020, 03:24:43 AM by Pino »
SX900 - Ketron SD40 - Maui 5s
 

Offline Pino

Tried to up-load the style but did not go.
Try again later 😩
SX900 - Ketron SD40 - Maui 5s
 

Offline Normanfernandez

I'm still very confused about this.

How does this help us when we make our own Instrument.


Well I understood now..
But are there any rules regarding the sample size?
How big a sample can be. 
« Last Edit: May 20, 2020, 06:44:27 AM by Normanfernandez »
 

Offline Telmo

Hi Guys,

I'm planning on purchasing a professional arranger. Can someone tell me what is the WAV ROM sample memory size for the sx900 inbuilt voices?

You shouldn't worry about that. I have all my user voices, all my styles, registrations and Multipads, all saved in the user area. The size of this is huge.
Yamaha PSR-SX-900, JBL EON ONE Linear-Array PA System.
Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/user/Telmo3190
"We are Old Too quick... and Wise too late."
 

Online overover

You shouldn't worry about that. I have all my user voices, all my styles, registrations and Multipads, all saved in the user area. The size of this is huge.

Hi Telmo,

the User drive of the SX900 is about 4 GB, but this is a separate "eMMC" memory which is similar to a "SSD" (Solid State Disk).

Rashdezine's request, however, concerns the "Wave ROM", in which the samples (waveforms) of the Preset voices are located.

As I have already mentioned, the newer models (from PSR-S970) no longer have a "Wave ROM" in the original sense (with "permanently burned-in" samples), but for the Wave data from Preset voices AND Expansion voices they use the same internal memory, namely the "Wave NAND Flash" memory. This storage area is a total of 2 GB on the SX900. 1 GB of this is reserved for the Expansion Wave memory, so a maximum of 1 GB is left for the Preset samples. And only Yamaha knows whether the preset samples now fully occupy this 1 GB or whether there is still space available.

I hope I was able to explain the facts clearly. :)

Best regards,
Chris

Online overover

Thanks Chris! Now I see what you mean in terms of the 1 GB ROM size on Sx900. That's exactly what I was looking for!

I don't have the money to spend on buying Genos now. I primarily use my DAW and vsts for my song compositions. I just need a decent arranger for some live shows and bread & butter sounds for movie scores and ambient songs. I'm also considering Modx (although not an arranger) alongside SX900 and Pa1000. Modx would come in handy for some experimental tunes alongside the usual bread and butter stuff. (Dual purpose rig maybe)

I heard that the acoustic instrument sounds are better on SX900 than on the Modx. What is your opinion about Modx AWM 2 sounds compared to the SX900 ones?

Hi Rashdezine,

thank you for your detailed reply!

Yes, the new Yamaha arranger keyboard models (e.g. Genos, SX900) have very good acoustic instrument sounds (in many cases better than their pendants on a MODX). Genos sounds even better, especially in the field of acoustic instruments, since it has even more SuperArticulation! voices, more effect blocks and also SuperArticulation2! voices (which are NOT available in the SX900).

The MODX basically has the same tone generation as Genos / SX900, namely "AWM2" (the same tone generator chip "SWP70" is used). In addition to the "AWM2" sound generation (Polyphony 128), the MODX also has an "FM-X" tone generation (Polyphony 64).

In my opinion, the strengths of the MODX are above all in the area of ​​Synthesizer sounds, and the sounds can be edited much deeper than is possible with Genos or SX models. I have to consider that the user interface of MODX (and ASSEMBLY) is completely different from that of Genos / SX models. File management is also completely different (more complicated in my opinion with Yamaha SYNTHs).

Some time ago I had a MODX6 under my fingers: I noticed that it had a very bad keyboard (worse than PSR-S models). In comparison, the PSR-SX900 definitely has the better keyboard.


My recommendation for you:

Take an SX900 and install some Expansion Packs for Analog Synth and FM Synth sounds such as "Analog Xperience", "Phat Analog" or "FM Xpanded" from Peter Krischker (Easy Sounds):

https://www.easysoundsshop.de/29010212036/yamaha_psr-sx900_700-


There are also many free Expansion sounds, e.g. by Peter Schips (CMS-Sounddesign):

http://cms-sounddesign.de/page101.html

http://cms-sounddesign.de/page132.html

http://cms-sounddesign.de/page16.html#wa-anchor-jbdr0fgc1dvaqkraww


Hope this helps!

Best regards,
Chris
« Last Edit: May 20, 2020, 04:52:37 PM by overover »
 

Offline Pino

Telmo is right, todays keyboards have everything we need for a brilliant performance and that can only be achieved by spending our time on practice and playing techniques

"Whatís the point having the best piano voice and knowing all the technical side of it if you cannot play it."

Itís a musical instrument, spend your time playing it and you will be rewarded, thereís no better feeling than when our audience are amazed by the wonderful sounds coming from our keyboards.

Pino
SX900 - Ketron SD40 - Maui 5s
 

Offline Joe H


... My recommendation for you:

Take an SX900 and install some Expansion Packs for Analog Synth and FM Synth sounds such as "Analog Xperience", "Phat Analog" or "FM Xpanded" from Peter Krischker (Easy Sounds):...

Rashdezine,

I agree completely with Chris and his recommendations.

 ;)

Joe H
Music is the Universal Language!

My Article: Using Multi Pads in registrations. Download Regs, Styles & MPs:  http://psrtutorial.com/music/articles/dancemusic.html