Topic: New to Genos

[shadowhankron]

Hi

As I only have the Genos almost 5 Days, slight Disappointment using it so Far. Although far too early to not Like it.

YouTube Videos show out of the Box Playing of Sounds & Styles as excellent quality,
 I found My Genos very Dull on Sounds.

eg.. CFX Piano and other Piano Sounds very Dull, as were Guitars and Strings such as Kino....The Styles did not produce the Great Tones as  volume sliders on some tracks needed adjustments on the Yamaha Videos they did not just Select and Play Tune.....

 I know some Members here will say TWEAK the Sounds but on the Video out of box Sounds needed  no Tweaking.

Went into Mixer on Styles Section to try use EQ....Treble, Bass, and Pan Pot made no Audiable difference when turning knobe left or right ..

.Is there a Global setting I need adjust before Tweaking.
regards


Ronnie

[Lee Batchelor]

Hi Ronnie and welcome aboard! The Genos is factory set to be "sort of dull." I never put any faith in promo videos either, regardless of who put them out because you don't know what has been done in the background. The Genos is a very dynamic instrument but so much depends on how you want to use it. Please answer the following questions:
 
1) What speakers are you using? Genos or others?

2) Are you using stereo outputs? Most of the new sounds on any keyboard sound horrible and flat unless presented in stereo.

3) What is your listening environment? Small living room, large home theater room?

4) What style of music do you usually play? Oldies, Country, Blues, EDM?

That's a start. With answers to these questions, we can steer you in the right direction. Be patient. The keyboard you own is a monster and will knock your socks off after you have things set up correctly the way you like them. Also, it's been my experience that any keyboard that sounded great out of the box was very limited as to how far you could push the sound. With the Genos, you can make it purr in a small room or boom out over a million-dollar sound system. I know this because I've done both .

Glad you chimed in!

- Lee

[EileenL]

Hi Ronnie,
   I don't think it is ever the case of one size fits all with keyboards as we all have our own idea's of what sounds we like. You will find adding more reverb to certain things and adding some DSP effects
will make a big difference to sounds and make them sound richer. Also you need to adjust volumes to your liking and save to registration banks and they then will always be ready to play and sound like you want them to. All this takes time so be patient and you will be surprised at how good this keyboard is.

[Lee Batchelor]

Ronnie, Eileen is 100% correct.

The Genos is not necessarily an amateur keyboard. After a few weeks, you'll figure out what the rest of us have always known - the Genos is a pro-level keyboard filled with almost endless possibilities. The magic lies in the numerous ways you can make this keyboard sound. You are in charge, my friend! Adding to my previous post, one more question:

5) For you, what keyboard is the Genos replacing?

- Lee

[Snicker740]

Hi

As I only have the Genos almost 5 Days, slight Disappointment using it so Far. Although far too early to not Like it.

YouTube Videos show out of the Box Playing of Sounds & Styles as excellent quality,
 I found My Genos very Dull on Sounds.

eg.. CFX Piano and other Piano Sounds very Dull, as were Guitars and Strings such as Kino....The Styles did not produce the Great Tones as  volume sliders on some tracks needed adjustments on the Yamaha Videos they did not just Select and Play Tune.....

 I know some Members here will say TWEAK the Sounds but on the Video out of box Sounds needed  no Tweaking.

Went into Mixer on Styles Section to try use EQ....Treble, Bass, and Pan Pot made no Audiable difference when turning knobe left or right ..

.Is there a Global setting I need adjust before Tweaking.
regards


Ronnie

Hello Ronnie!
Like you said. I feel that the sounds of Genos are great to play with style from Genos, and when combined with a band, the sounds of Genos are still not thick enough, outstanding and strong to blend. I often use piano sounds when I play with a band, and CFX or C7 Piano is not as good as I expected.
So I created my own new Piano sounds. You can hear a comparison of it here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-LxVRbC76yQ

[Lee Batchelor]

Great playing Snicker740! Nice sound creations too. You said that you created those from the Genos samples? Would you care to share those ? I back some singers with just piano, no styles. Those sounds would be great!! Thanks...

- Lee

[robinez]

Great playing Snicker740! Nice sound creations too. You said that you created those from the Genos samples? Would you care to share those ? I back some singers with just piano, no styles. Those sounds would be great!! Thanks...

- Lee

the Genos out of the box sounds rather flat. But that's easy to solve by setting the master EQ and Master Compressor to your liking. It makes a huge difference for the end result.

The pianos i don't like either, but that's not a real problem on a genos. What i did was sampling the Alicia Keys Piano, the korg kronos german grand and the pa4x italian piano and added those to the genos. So it's easy to add a piano you like to the genos (for instance CMS sound design sells a couple of great sounding pianos).

[shadowhankron]

Hi Lee

Many Thanks for your great Detail in the reply..I will answer your Questions if you think you can help Solve my Problem.

(1)  The Speakers I am using I bought 2 weeks ago are from Gear4Music, and are the SUBZERO ACTIVE PA 8" 200 watt SPEAKERS.

(2)  Yes am using STEREO OUTPUTS  from Genos to Subzero.

(3)  Listening Environment is a  Room I use as my Mancave with Concrete Floor.

(4)  Style of music is almost Everything except a small amount of Dance or EDM...not my favourite.

(5)  Genos is replacing the PSR s970, but also still use the KORG PA4X which I now play through the Genos Inputs.

  I do hope problems can be solved, I cannot understand why the EQ and Panpots dont change.

I notice Lee  you have the Yamaha HS8 Monitors.....are these good to use with Genos.

I bought my Genos from A& C Hamiltons  and Justin thinks I need the Yamaha HS8 monitors.

regarding OUT of THE BOX sounds, I feel these Demonstrators fool the average person Interested in these Keyboards with Tweaked Sounds and Styles.

Kind regards

Ronnie

[shadowhankron]

Hello Eileen

Again Thank You for your kind reply.

I agree it never is One size fits all....but the Sound I am hearing through my System not sounding Good.

I know that on s970 I tweaked lots of Styles but never the Voices too much.

I never Gig so Large Wattage will never be an Issue with Sound System, as I mentioned to Lee it was suggested to use Yamaha HS8 Monitors...  but how can Stereo be played through them as each speaker needs a connection from each output from Genos.

regarding the Registrations which I never Used ...If I was to SAVE edited Voices or Styles to Registrations into the USER would I not run out of Memory fast.



Regards
Ronnie

[shadowhankron]

Hi Snicker740

Thanks for joining into my Forum request.
I listened into your youtube Demo, and your CFX Piano sound from the Presets was excellent with no Tweaking... Your User Sounds were very Good too..... I assume that the Piano Sounds used in the Favourite section were Copied from the USER section.

Would it be possible from you to message me the settings used to get that great Piano sound Please.

By the way  what was that lovely Melody you  Played on the Demo.

I dont play in any Band or any Gigging just Home Player.

Thanks Snicker740

Ronnie

[soryt]

Do the Pa4 sounds good with the speakers ?

S

[shadowhankron]

robinez, Thanks for joining the question.

I dont understand sampling so I cannot enjoy the benefits you have with your knowledge in creating your own Piano Sounds.

I wish I had known somebody to share their creations....but this 70yr old Brain would not know what to do with sampling.

Thank You

Ronnie

[shadowhankron]

soryt, Thanks for reply

The Korg PA4X is suffering Soundwise too with my Sound System...the Korg did sound great when I played it through a PSR 9000 and it was 19 years old...., which had reasonable Sound thru its Speakers...but had to take it off the Keyboard Stand to make way to use the Genos.

It was suggested on earlier Forum that to connect outputs from Korg into Genos Inputs, and thats the way I am hooked up.

Sounds from Korg PA4X sound good normally, but suffer at Moment.

regards

Ronnie

[valimaties]

Hi Ronnie.

That system costs only 150£, which in my opinion is a medium cost system, which means (in most of cases) not a profi sound.
Also, if PA4 sound is not good, that might put you a question mark on your sound PA system (?)...

I saw that system has some controls on it. Try to NOT use those controls. Or use them on flat, if there is such an option.

The best solution I think it is HS7/HS8 from Yamaha, AND a sub-woofer.

PS: I don't like the factory sound of pianos on Genos, but with some tweaks from EQ (DSP EQ) you can gain a very good sound of piano. They are to open, a lot of high frequencies .

Regards,
Vali

[EileenL]

Hi Ronnie,
  You may like to try my registration of different piano's. Made some time ago but sound OK on Genos

[attachment deleted by admin]

[Lee Batchelor]

Hi Ronnie,

It sounds as though you may have an issue with the room being a little too bright (concrete floor) and medium quality speakers. Of course, there is the budget thing too ! I checked the specs on your speakers. They operate in the range of 60Hz-20KHz. The open E string on a bass guitar is 40Hz. Bass starts to get interesting around 50Hz. The crossover point between the bass driver and tweeter is 2,500Hz. That's pretty high if you're wanting to achieve nice piano sounds. My HS8s cross at 2,000Hz - slightly nicer for piano.

I play my Genos through two systems. For home, the HS8 monitors. They are excellent monitors but like all good quality monitors, they are designed to be maximally flat. That is, no sound color anywhere. The subwoofer would be needed to warm things up. For shows, I use two Bose Compacts and in larger venues, I add my home-made 15-inch sub. I must confess that I am having issues with the bass mega voices being inconsistent. I started another thread about that. It's going to be a huge task to fix that.

Can you try some different speakers or even try adding a subwoofer to your existing setup? Perhaps try putting down an area rug?

[soryt]

its not nice to hear , but the speakers are the problem ., it is strange that you expect a high end Arranger keyboard sound good on a budget pa speaker set .
there are a lot of decent budget Pa systems that sounds very good ( example , a LD Dave8 set) , but as you wrote also the Pa4 sounds not as good on it, you cant get ist right with
a new and decent speaker system .
Good luck so far .

Soryt 

[shadowhankron]

Hello Eileen

Thank You for sending me some Piano Registrations to try... I downloaded them onto USB...but hope to try tomorrow, as today I never switched on the Genos, was totally upset at what  bad sound I get after spending 3600 Euro.  So my budget on Speakers is Limited...on a Pension.

Kind Regards
Ronnie

[shadowhankron]

Lee

Again Thank You for response.....  If I was to try swop my Speakers with Gear4Music to get HS8`s  I need find another 360 Euro plus the swop....now you say I need Sub Woofers as well....I thought the HS8 played okay on own...AC Hamiltons never mentioned Sub Woofers  this is getting more messy and annoying each day......no wonder I never turned on the Genos today.

Regards
Ronnie

[shadowhankron]

Soryt

Thanks...... yes I made a Blunder with this Genos......



Ronnie

[shadowhankron]

Vali...Thanks for your reply.........I did try turning Down Treble and Bass...but not much Difference........no other switches to play with.

yes it was 150 euro...but it took me a long time to save for Genos only living on a Pension......so I thought the Subzero was Going to be fine as I asked online to Gear4Music would they play okay...   They replied yes ...should be okay.
regards

Ronnie

[Toril S]

Hello Ronnie.
Don't be upset with the Genos, the problem is your speakers. For home playing you should use the optional speaker set that are made for the Genos. There are three speakers in the set, a Subwoofer and tow "satelites," speakers that you mount on the Genos. The advantage of this is that they can be pivoted towards you when you sit and play, so you will hear with no problem.
If you don't have the money right now, save up for it. Meanwhile you maybe have some good earphones? Try listening to yourself playing through them. I believe you can solve this and be very satisfied with your Genos, it just takes some time getting used to it. What keyboard did you have before the Genos? Good luck, and good spirits! You did NOT make a blunder, you have the best keyboard in the world, and you will love it. It will grow on you, I promise! All the best from Toril

[valimaties]

Vali...Thanks for your reply.........I did try turning Down Treble and Bass...but not much Difference........no other switches to play with.

yes it was 150 euro...but it took me a long time to save for Genos only living on a Pension......so I thought the Subzero was Going to be fine as I asked online to Gear4Music would they play okay...   They replied yes ...should be okay.
regards

Ronnie

Hi Ronnie.
I know how it is, I have to buy a good arranger after a lot of years of singing on a Casio SA20, or Fiast. My first good arranger was a Korg iS50B, which allow me to sing a little bit more profi. That was the time I knew how to use software on PC to make styles, to convert, etc. I sold my car to buy a Tyros 2, that car which was bought with money from a finance at a bank. I paid about 5 years to that money, practically I have paid a Tyros 2 and a half , for a Tyros 2   ...

Almost every musical store want to sold its products. Because those products means money, means rolling products. There are a small amount of musical stores which NOT sell some products to its loyal customers, those customers which have a number of bills made on their store So, I don't think they was fairly to you. Or maybe they have asked you which is the budget and they give you the best for your money. But even so, as a professional store, I will tell to the client that it might have problems when you use a system with an instrument

My musical instruments provider tells me every time I want to buy something which is good and which is not. He has a lot of experience, he is a musician too, a music teacher also, and a very good seller in my country. A lot of persons go to its musical store because there are a lot of good engineers which give us good advice.

As a conclusion, think about how many Genos buyers are HERE on this forum. Do you think anyone keep Genos if the sound was poor or in other way of bad?!
Yes, there are discussions about functions, about missing things or things which does not work as they work on any other brands, but I did not see posts about bad sound.

Regards,
Vali

[EileenL]

Hi Ronnie,
  Is there a reason you did not get the Genos speaker set. After all they are designed for this keyboard. Have you tried the different XQ and compressor settings. These you need to adjust to your room and what suits best. I only have a small music room but I get great sound from my Genos speakers.

     Eileen

[Oxford1035]

Hi Ronnie,

As others have pointed out, you have one of the best sounding keyboards in the Genos.

The problem you have is definitely down to the subzero set up. It's like buying the world's best record turntable and connecting it to a pair of cheap £10 speakers. Without a good set of speakers the turntable won't sound good, no matter how much you've spent on it. Same with the speaker set up you have. In effect, what you were told by gear4music is the speakers will work with the Genos, but that's still a different concept to the question, will they actually sound good?

Kind regards,

Russ

Vali...Thanks for your reply.........I did try turning Down Treble and Bass...but not much Difference........no other switches to play with.

yes it was 150 euro...but it took me a long time to save for Genos only living on a Pension......so I thought the Subzero was Going to be fine as I asked online to Gear4Music would they play okay...   They replied yes ...should be okay.
regards

Ronnie

[Lee Batchelor]

Hi again, Ronnie. You can achieve excellent bass with just the HS8 speakers. The subwoofer is optional and more the "icing on the cake." Is Gear4Music a physical store or for strictly online sales?

Whatever, you should be able to have an in-store demo of the HS8s by bringing your Genos to a store. I seldom by this level of gear online. I always sit down sometimes for hours in a store and put gear through its paces. Find a store that will gladly let you do that. Trust me, they want you to buy speakers from them as much as you want to solve your problem .

[Snicker740]

Hi Snicker740

Thanks for joining into my Forum request.
I listened into your youtube Demo, and your CFX Piano sound from the Presets was excellent with no Tweaking... Your User Sounds were very Good too..... I assume that the Piano Sounds used in the Favourite section were Copied from the USER section.

Would it be possible from you to message me the settings used to get that great Piano sound Please.

By the way  what was that lovely Melody you  Played on the Demo.

I dont play in any Band or any Gigging just Home Player.

Thanks Snicker740

Ronnie

Hi shadowhankron!
To get the Piano model of my choice and play on Genos, I had to choose a lot from the VSTi Piano sound samples, and the Piano sound model I chose was from the RAVENSCROFT 275 software (https://www.vilabsaudio.com/Ravenscroft-By-VI-Labs)
And I use the realtime sampling tool, SampleRobot 6.x.
It was then brought into the Yamaha Expansion to reset some items accordingly.
If you love it please contact me.

P / S: The melody I use to check the piano sound is the "I Wish" song.
You can listen to it here. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=On81-1xvt8o

Best regards!

[shadowhankron]

Hi Eileen.....the reason not using the Yamaha Speaker set was due to Genos on Lower Tier Keyboard and not much space for these speakers, and the Korg PA4X on top Tier of Stand.

Thanks for advice

Ronnie

[shadowhankron]

Hi  OXFORD1035

You and many others are saying my Sound System is so wrong for the Genos.

Pity I have this issue.

Regards and Thanks Russ



Ronnie

[shadowhankron]

Hi LEE

Regarding hearing  the Genos or other Equipment, I live in Dublin..and not many stores stock Yamaha Keyboards especially the high end models but would order one in with deposit.
Therefore I only rely on YouTube and Forum discussions for me to Purchase Musical instruments.

A&C Hamiltons  have supplied me in past with PSRs970.... Korg PA4X...  and now the Genos.

Gear4Music have in past as well as Thomann  in Germany, so I dont have luxury of hearing first hand.

Yamaha had own store here in Ireland but closed down after release of Tyros 2..that is where I bought that Tyros.


regards

Ronnie

[Lee Batchelor]

I see your point, Ronnie. Of course, the HS8 speakers aren't the only decent speakers available. Perhaps you can see what your local music store has to offer. Bring your Geno along for the ride .

[soryt]

Soryt

Thanks...... yes I made a Blunder with this Genos......
Ronnie

Absolutly not , you did with the speakers :-)

Soryt :-)

[pjd]

Hi Ronnie --

A lot of us are pensioners, too, so we understand budget problems.

One possible solution is to return the Subzero speakers and, temporarily, get a good set of headphones. This would allow you to hear the Genos with its full potential. (I would say the same thing if it was the PA4x, too.)

Once you have some money saved, I would then follow Lee's suggestion and actually try your Genos through powered speakers (or whatever) at a local store. It's too risky to buy good speakers through an on-line retailer without trying them.

You've got a great instrument with Genos. It's simply time to plan the next step.

All the best to you -- pj

[reya]

There is also such a thing as room accoustics to take into account.

I know by experience that the accoustics are much better in my dealer's store than at my home.

So if possible, the best thing would be to try some speakers out at home if you can.
Some dealers are open to this, for others it's more difficult.
And of course the longer you are loyal customer with you dealer, the easier it will be to persuade him to let you try a few out in your home ....

Best Regards

Rudy

[panos]

Hi Ronnie,
have you tried to change the Master EQ of the keyboard?
No matter how bad or medium the speakers might be,
a"dull" sound I guess means luck of treble and high frequencies which is how the flat EQ settings may sound to your speaker.
Also you can use some headphones,(headphones for keyboards not that little ones for...I-pod 
to see the differences between hearing the instrument on speakers and on headphones.

Acoutsics of the room,lot's of reverb etc. comes later when you "pump up" the volume a lot.

If I were someone who don't like to mess around a lot with sounds and effects,
I would try to find some sounds from the OTS at first rather than choosing them directly from the voice folder.
(A sound to be great and not just good, needs effects)

I am also afraid that a clear sound needs better and more expensive speakers.
If there wasn't any difference in sound,why should they sell it in the first place and who would be so nuts to buy them anyway?

[countryking]

Hi Ronnie,

The sound shop in Drogheda stock all Yamaha Keyboards and speakers and if needed they can get what you need and will match any online store prices. You can contact them on 0419831078 and ask for Adam or Trevor. I have been dealing with them for the last 15 years and never disappointed as they are musicians themselves and pride themselves on Customer service. They will also allow you to test out speakers and I believe they have a Genos in stock. Well worth speaking to them and there store is approx 45 minutes from Dublin.

All will work out and you as you see there is fantastic support from this Forum - really genuine and helpful people.
Jim.

[shadowhankron]

Hi  pjd
I thank you for reply.....today I wrote to Gear4Music to return the Subzero System with my 30 day Return Offer,

And today A&C Hamilton wrote to me (Where I bought Genos )    To offer me a Refurbished set of HS8`s and keen price so I asked to hold them for me .....and they agreed. I listened to the Genos on pair Headphones from Thomann Cheap pair...but Genos sounded Great as did the Korg PA4x  inputted into Genos.

Hi reya..(Rudy)
   To be honest in Dublin not many Stores allow trying out Gear you own...none I know of....


Hi  panos

I downloaded settings for Eq`ing   called Gold eq.......so tonight I will enter them while on Headphones.



Hi. countryking.

I guess you are from Ireland since you know Sound Shop Drogheda....

I dealt with this shop back in 70`s when in a Pop Group a Guitar Player at the Time...

I dealt with Tommy Leddy himself...a great Man to deal with.......but a few years ago I phoned and Emailed the Shop to try exchange a Roland Integra 7 and buy the s970 Keyboard   but either Adam or Trevor ( one of Tommy`s sons )  bascally ignored my request at the time......so I thought never deal with them or most stores in Dublin.

This morning I called into Xmusic Dublin..to purchase a pair of Quality Headphones Audio Technica M40X  which I saw on their Website for 105 euro....one of managers said none in stock a long while since we stocked them.....I said website had them on offer...his reply...So what !   it should have not been on Website......no apology... just a snigger type grin.

So this is my reason Irish Stores are not as Interested as UK Stores or European...I SHOP ON LINE   now.

YES. ....countryking...  People on this Forum are  AMAZING   !!!! and   very HELPFUL..!!!   so I Thank You ALL VERY MUCH  for time and patience helping me out...and over coming days I will require more help with the GENOS

regards

Ronnie