Topic: Studio Recording Gig With Genos.

[Pianoman]

Hello Everyone.

First I would like to offer apologies in case this is not the right section to ask these questions.

I have been booked for a 14 day studio recording session this November in Germany,
where I am expected to deliver 40 songs on 3 CDs.

They mostly want me to play and sing Motown Soul, Some Blues and Jazz, and also Caribbean
covers.
They will hire a Genos there for me, so I was thinking of just putting all my work and Genos
settings on a USB stick that I will take with me.
They also said that there's a Korg Kronos there, which I guess should be sufficient for piano work.

I have a few questions to ask here though, and hope that someone can advise me.

1) What is the copyright policy regarding using Yamaha styles in a commercial studio?
For example, not being a drummer myself, can I just use the drum or bassline parts of a
particular style for recording?

2) How does one individually connect each of the 8 accompaniment tracks to a studio
mixing desk?

3) I have never used Midi Files, but thanks to our good friend Gary and others here too,
I have downloaded thousands of Midi Files, which contain many of the required cover songs.

As I'm required to deliver 40 songs on 3 CDs within 14 days, was thinking of using the Midi Files
as a shortcut or guide to help with instruments that are difficult to reproduce, like the Wah Wah
guitar on "Shaft" or on "Papa Was A Rolling Stone." for example.

Would that be legal in regard to copyright law, and how does one go about connecting the 16
Midi channels individually to a mixing desk?

They apparently have a top class sound engineer over there, but I consider that folks here are
more knowledgeable about all things Yamaha.

Any advice is highly appreciated.

Best Regards.
Abby.

[Joe H]

Abby,

I can address your #1 question easily.  I couldn't find any info on the www recently, but it's my understanding Yamaha has stated in the past that if we produce a commercial hit recording using one of their styles, there is NO royalties to pay Yamaha or copyright issues we need to be concerned about. It's your song/recording. As far as cover songs go you will have to pay someone if you record someone else's songs.

On the technical stuff, I would think that the recording studio will know how to connect the Genos and other keyboards to their computer software sequencer/DAW.

Joe H

[Pianoman]

Hello Joe.

Thanks for your prompt response.
My job is just to record the songs, take the money and run, which is very welcome at the moment.
The studio will take care of the issues with the original composers and authors rights.

It's good to know about the the use of styles in the songs though.
I wouldn't have a clue about editing drums other than creating a simple 4 bar sequence.
I'm just supposed to record existing songs but rearrange them and interpret them in my
own way.

There may be performer's rights in there for me, but they suggested that we talk about them
once I get there.

I still welcome contributions from other members here on the technical stuff.

Even though I have an advanced keyboard, my use of it is mostly limited to playing the styles
and sing along while hammering out solos on the piano and maybe some guitar or saxophone licks.

Thanks again.

Best Regards.

Abby.

[Jay B.]

Congratulations on this opportunity, Abby. I am excited for you! It has been many years since I was in the studio, but really treasure those times. No matter how competent you are, and you my friend are quite competent, recording well is a challenge. A positive one, but still a challenge. You will be tested to offer your best, but to me that's the good part. Studio work makes you a better player, in my opinion. Best wishes and please let us know how it goes.

Jay B.

[markstyles]

If you want separate audio outs for the style generated parts, you are going to have to load a 'chord track' into a DAW, then feed that out to a Genos song channel..  And then assign that track as 'chord detect'. This way the Genos will read hour chord track (should be blocked organ type chords, full duration till next change)  as if you were playing it with your left hand. 

Make your DAW the MIDI master, and Genos mid slave, (like usb 1)  Record your style changing performance into you DAW.  It will be a midi track with Channels 9 - 16
The simplest way is to go to Genos SONG RECEIVE page, and assign SONG MIDI 9- 16 to their respective Style channels

MIDI 9 - rhythm 1
midi 10 - rhythm 2
midi 11 - bass
midi 12 - chord one

This will now feed the style generated parts to the style generator, so patches, and most importantly dip effects will be the same.

Since Genos has only 4 outputs, you can go back and record each audio track one at a time, into your DAW, and it will all be in sync.  The nice part about this is you can, EQ, volume control, effect control with much more precision.

You should of course practice this at home, so you won't be overwhelmed when you get to studio. 

If you want it to go fast, you can of course, just record the whole style generated part as a live two track.  Then really focus on your lead playing, harmonies, etc.

It is quite versatile, although it takes some time to master. 


There's a digital and analog out, but personally the fidelity is so good, I just stick with the analog out. 

There is a wah-wah  on Genos, its OK .. but it won't get as radical as Shaft sound.   If your studio has a wah wah pedal, it might be more authentic, but this would mean using the first overdub method I suggested.

As mentioned Yamaha doesn't care how you use the styles, you just cannot bundle the styles, and sell them outright.

MIDI files found on internet, can be totally lousy to excellent. You need to preview the midi files you plan to use, Some may only be piano, and a lame repeated midi drum loop.  Some are exquisitely arranged. .  Yamaha's midi files are decent.  It would be worth it to purchase any there as they will have more parts in them.


If you are not familiar with the Genos, it would behove you to figure out how it works..  If you can get ahold of a Tyros it's pretty close in function..  Nothing is as nerve-racking as trying to get something to work, with a $$$ clock running. 

Hope this helps

[ugawoga]

Hi Pianoman and Mark

The other thing with the Genos and Styles are _____

After recording a Style track it leaves lots of little notes all over the place and i have heard that Studio producers hate  this when  finalizing.
In Cubase i have to clear the flack so to speak by setting a very short note in  Midi Function then Midi delete and it gets rid of all those little nasties en block after highlighting the whole track.
I think it has something to do with hitting a chord a split second out which causes this flack. It is very minute. It is milliseconds that humans have a problem with and machines that do not.
Clearing the flack makes a clear difference to a finished style track.
I am sure though that Studio producers are aware of this I hope.
I do not know whether this is of any help.
This is my experience with recording Style tracks.

all the Best
john

[mikf]

Big project Abby. Congratulations. I imagine the first day or so will be spent getting everything set up and working, then it’s about 4 songs a day. My experience of studio recording is that everything takes way longer than you think so you will need to be ‘one-take-abby’ Hope it goes well.
Mike

[Toril S]

Good luck Abby!!!

[markstyles]

Yes, Genos puts out, let's call them 'artifacts' in the music, They are present in style generated parts, and in MIDI's you purchase.  This is meant to make it more human sounding, less computer..  In my Daw, I cut out some of them.. The real question is do you find them acceptable?.. 

I once recorded a piano solo, and kind of 'tripped' over my fingers.  I was going to take it out, then I pictured a lounge piano player with a cigarette hanging off his lip.  The 'tripped' note I made was when the kbd player burn't his lip..  After that thought I had to leave it in..  Fluffs and xtra notes, can help a part.  I often shorten and make them softer. I also slide some of those notes in time a bit.  but leave important notes on the beat. It's time consuming, but can bring a realness to the performance.

I don't know your experience or the engineer you will be working with..  It's always best to 'check your ego' at the door when recording.  I've met guys working behind the board, who I considered 'not the best'..  But especially when it's a big project like you are approaching. Doing a situation like you will be doing is 'intimate'.  You will be spending a lot of time with this guy, so you have to feel 'safe' there to try out new things which may or not work. I'm sure it will all work out fine.  Good Luck

[Pianoman]

Hello everyone.

I want to express my thanks to all of you for your tips and encouragement.
I like the idea of recording one Genos track at a time, as I'm not familiar with DAWs and VSTs.

I think that the best thing to do would be to listen to the studio engineers and see how they wish
to proceed.

I have worked in a studio before in the 80s using an Atari 1040 coupled with Steinberg software,
a little blue thing that I plugged into the side of the Atari.
That software was very simple and easy to work with, compared to today's instruments.

I use my Genos only for the backing styles and RH voices, and nothing else.
There is not much time left for me to start learning about DAWs etc.

I have been given a choice of either going to record in the first 2 weeks of November (in 23 days)
 or push thedate back to January 2020.

I prefer to get this thing done and over with as quickly as possible, so that I can go visit
and spend some quality time with my mother.

This is a recording company that is or apparently was, one of the biggest recording houses in
Germany.

The company owner saw me performing  cover songs in my own way on the Genos
( picture "Don't Leave Me This Way " in Techno or "Ain't No Sunshine " in Hip Hop etc)
and asked me to go to Germany and record 40 songs in the same way as I play and sing
them over here.

I don't see this gig making me famous in any way, and I look upon myself as being a session
musician but with singing involved.

I used to do this kind of thing in the 80s in a Belgium, so we shall see what happens after.

Thank you all for the best wishes.

Best Regards,
Abby.

[pjd]

Thanks for the update, Abby. We all wish you well!

-- pj

[beykock]

Hi Abby :

IMHO the following " working plan " could be useful and might save a lot of " recording time " in the German studio.

Recording all your 40 songs in midi ( at home ! ) might be a useful tool to prepare your job in Germany.
No panning and no effects. A flat and perfect midi recording.

The midi tracks can be recorded separately ( in audio ) by the engineer of the studio and he can do the editing he ( and/or the producer, ) wants and likes. Vocals, mixing and mastering follow later then.

That is the way how we are working here in our home studio today.
For us it works very well since midi files are very flexible.

It is just an idea.

Good luck, Babette

[Pianoman]

Good idea Babette,
How does one go about recording Midi?

Best Regards.
Abby.

[Stijn]

Hello Abby,

I learn a lot from the videos posted on www.keyboard-akademie.de

I put some English subtitles in their video about Recording and Saving a midi song.

You can watch it here: https://youtu.be/d2f_qGmR5mE

Greetings,
Stijn

[beykock]

Studio engineers are used to work with midi files and have all the tools available to create nice individual audio tracks.

Your midi tracks must be perfectly made though : correct notes, correct chords, balanced volume etc. etc.
No fx, no panning. No errors nor mistakes ...
 
IMHO 40 songs is a lot ! Pffff ... too much maybe ?
Maybe it might be better to start with the first DVD ( approx. 12 songs ) ... but who am I to tell you how to proceed.


Good luck, Abby

Babette

[panos]

Hi Abby in case you want to record in midi the normal way(you play with a style and just push the record button)
the keyboard will record your playing in default as below(in 16 separated midi channels).

Channel 1   :   Right 1
Channel 2   :   Left
Channel 3   :   Right 2
Channel 4   :   Right 3
Channel 5   :   Multi Pad 1
Channel 6   :   Multi Pad 2
Channel 7   :   Multi Pad 3
Channel 8   :   Multi Pad 4
Channel 9   :   Rhythm 1
Channel 10 :   Rhythm 2
Channel 11 :   Bass
Channel 12 :   Chord 1
Channel 13 :   Chord 2
Channel 14 :   Pad
Channel 15 :   Phrase 1
Channel 16 -   Phrase 2

After recording if you want to correct or modify anything,all "stuff" will be at the above channels.
Each note can be deleted,changed in length,moved in time etc.
If a note contains an effect same thing(can be deleted,add another effect etc).
It is the same procedure as they record a song on a virtual studio(DAW)
Just keep in mind that there are thousands of notes(and midi orders) been recorded in a single song.
Most important part you need to play as correctly as possible, as Babette indicated,is the style parts playing (the chord playing)

Your right hand's playing it is a much much easier to be modified.

Keep in mind that you can record your left hand at whatever slower tempo you want and after recording you are just changing the tempo with a simple"order".
Then you can just record your right hand's playing without having to worry about the timing of your left hand.
A keyboard can record whatever channel you choose,leaving the rest as they are.

There is also a "step" edit function that allows you to record everything without playing but I don't know how it exactly works,I never have to use it.
I just use the one take midi recording function and then convert the midi to audio(.wav).
Of course this not the right way to do it in a "pro" studio recording.

Why are we taking about midi recording and not just "straight" audio recording?
In audio recording you cannot change anything.You just can just equalize it and can add effects if each part is in a different audio file.(drums,bass,piano etc)

You could ask the studio if they want something from you to be prepared that can save your studio recording time.
I don't know how studio work and what they want to use from your Genos.
(the styles? just some voices? everything except from the piano playing?)

[mikf]

Abby
To do this you would have to record your complete accompaniment on the Genos. I am not sure if this will actually suit the way you set up with a piano.
Mike

[beykock]

The piano can be recorded - in audio - separately, just like his sax and vocals.

IMHO this studio will work with Cubase or Pro Tools.

Babette