Topic: Genos 61

[Pino]

What real upgrades can YAMAHA instal on the next model, the SX910
Some may say more voices and styles.

Which is the best value for money, buy lots of top quality styles and voices and install them on your present keyboard ($250) or buy an SX910   ($2300+) surely you will not fall for a slightly larger touch screen and silver colour change,

Now we have a middle range keyboard with -touch screen - memory -  better keybed
So, how can YAMAHA improve this format for the next PSR for your average MOR musician?

GENOS 1 - Many members have requested some additional stuff and improvements for Genos 2
How many here with part with big, big money for these small improvements, Genos is already a big winner, how many will buy a Genos 2?  I think there keyboards have come full circle, excellent voices and excellent styles, touch screen, good keybed, bigger memory,


How many members here play the 8 notes on the bottom end and the 8 notes on the top end of Genos keyboard, I haven’t seen any on ‘you tube’,

How many members here have bought a Genos or Tyros 4/5 and then gone to buy a PSR 61 cos they want to go out gigging with a smaller and lighter keyboard, many, many, many. what a waste of money, if there would have been a Genos 61 then they would have bought one but good sales strategy from Yamaha.

What is Yamaha's business plan for the arranger keyboard for the average musician for the next 5 years, (not EDM players) how much improvements and new innovations can they install on a PSR or a Genos and still keep your average musician interested enough to pay out big money every 3 years,

So, to keep the business turning over, they will launch a Genos 61 within the next year or two.

Pino

[EileenL]

No I don't think you will ever see a 61 note Genos. The sales for this keyboard have been large and that is because such a lot of people want 76 notes. Especially if you also are a pianist and like to play in that style. I can't see that they can add much more to these keyboards except things like new styles and voices. Most people only use a fraction of what is on the keyboard anyway. If you used everything when would you get time to play it. You would be so busy with going into everything that you would never produce any music.

[ugawoga]

 Hi
I wished that i had Genos 61 in the year 2090
That would be a Quantum Leap

Oh! dream on, someone said NOTE!!

[Pino]

Eileen, not sure I agree with all your post
Didn’t you just buy another 2nd keyboard for gigging
That does not make sense to me
Your playing your best keyboard at home and a less able keyboard out gigging

And there are many, many more like you.
If there was a 61 available when you purchased your Genos then I’m sure you’d have gone for it,
Your former organ player, ain’t you?

This song I recorded today on my S950
How much better would this sound on a SX900 or Genos
I assume that the style parts and the strings would sound a little better.

Happy playing 🎹

Pino

https://app.box.com/s/vbc5ecvlseh43n2jfxnpda3ee01efo5s

[Fred Smith]

What is Yamaha's business plan for the arranger keyboard for the average musician for the next 5 years, (not EDM players) how much improvements and new innovations can they install on a PSR or a Genos and still keep your average musician interested enough to pay out big money every 3 years,

So, to keep the business turning over, they will launch a Genos 61 within the next year or two.

The business plan is:
Clavinova =.88 keys
Genos = 76 keys
PSR = 61 keys

You will not see a 61-key Genos.

Cheers,
Fred

[Pino]

John, are you still on the wacky backy?

No comment on your reply as I have never hear you play the arranger keyboard.
Yes, you Cubase copy and paste stuff, sounds good, I did that 30 years ago.

It’s nice to go out and play an instrument for others to enjoy your music and to show off what these instruments can really do,  it’s a good feeling. Try it.

Pino 😀

[mikf]

Yamaha has clearly established that there is a market for the 76 keys because they launched it as the 'standard' after a period of offering the 76 key option on its previous flagship. Sales numbers told them that the 76 keys was favored by the majority of buyers. It's also about economics. A single size model is probably cheaper to support and supply than multiple models provided the initial cost of 76 keys doesn't rise enough to be a price barrier.
I think your initial premise also wrong, because it makes the assumption that the majority of buyers are upgrading from a current or recent  available equivalent model. Actually relatively few people do that. Most sales come from people upgrading from a lower model or much older model, a competitive brand keyboard, first time arranger buyers. Yamaha has to ensure that their latest keyboard remains competitive to these buyers when compared to other brands. They dont really think that huge numbers will run out to upgrade from the recent model.
Mike
 

[EileenL]

Hi Pino.
  When you rehearse for eight months once a week with a lot of singers it is much easier to take a smaller keyboard out. Easier and quicker to set up. On the night of a concert Genos gets pride of place
  This has now become easier as I can have the same set up in both keyboards
now I can load in most of the things I use on Genos.
   Some of my friends have also bought the SX900 as a second keyboard for using in care homes because you don't always have a lot of room to set up so this keyboard is ideal for that. They still have there Genos though.

[Pino]

I'm a gigging musician, that’s the reason for my post, Genos 61, smaller, lighter,

Eileen, My dream is that I can still play music as good as you when I’m older and still go out gigging,   Well done to you 🌹

[soryt]

It is not the weight of the Genos it is the  size what makes it hard to handel when playing outdoors.
I hope the design of the Genos 2 is much smaller ( like the Pa4) , They can if they wil
For me it was a big dissapointment when there wasnt a 61 Genos being released ., If the SX900 had a pro keybed it was the right replacement for me

Soryt 

[ton37]

Have you tried one, Soryt. Maybe you're surprised??

[mikf]

How can size be a bigger issue outdoors than indoors??
Mike

[Pino]

I’m sure he means
When taking it outdoors.

[Bachus]

The business plan is:
Clavinova =.88 keys
Genos = 76 keys
PSR = 61 keys

You will not see a 61-key Genos.

Cheers,
Fred

Looks like it...

[ton37]

The business plan is:
Clavinova =.88 keys
Genos = 76 keys
PSR = 61 keys

You will not see a 61-key Genos.

Cheers,
Fred

But if the Market is in for a G-61 and Yamaha could earn a fistful of million dollars, they Shell ..ehh they shall 😉

[mikf]

But if the Market is in for a G-61 and Yamaha could earn a fistful of million dollars, they Shell ..ehh they shall 😉

It seems though that this is not the case - ie when faced with the choice most people choose the 76 keys. That's why it's not happening.

[pjd]

Yamaha are not likely to leave money on the table. They know who buys what and how many.

Even though there are customers who would prefer a 61 (myself included), Yamaha must trade-off the cost of developing, manufacturing, distributing, and supporting a 61 versus the expected return (net profit). Adding a 61 to the product line cannot be done for free.

Even though I would prefer a 61, I genuinely understand the benefits of having a few extra keys, especially in the left hand. I can live with the small delta in weight and width.

All the best -- pj

[ugawoga]

Hi Pino
I made a silly joke and people from different countries see things differently from mad dogs and Englishmen
It is just my silly humour.
I started to learn the Spanish guitar at an early age , but at 18 women stopped me playing!!
I did dj-ing for 15 years and then at 34 i learnt the keyboards.
I can play and i practice every day for the soul purpose of not having to copy and paste as that would take hours.
I just tidy up my works a little, like note lengths and the odd mistakes.
I am getting into mixing now and hope that is starting to work.
My goal is to write music ,but i want to get through difficult songs first as that gives me ideas and vision.
This is my final dream to produce an album or two.
At 68 now ,playing out is not on my list as cruising,enjoying life and having fun is paramount when i probably only have about 25 years left
You cannot go far in that old rocking chair and six feet under and a dollar bill wont kiss you back. (Quote ; Guy Lombardo "Enjoy Yourself song"). More silly humour!!
If I were 18 again ,i would consider playing in a band. I only have one life unfortunately or fortunately!! .

All the Best                      https://soundcloud.com/silver-machine/i-cant-let-maggie-go     done on 76 note Genos with a few note length adjustments and velocity using registrations .
Also lots of practice In between house decorating and living it up on Friday nights with a good Fillet Steak and a bottle of Yellow Tail Merlot.
All the Best
John       

[Lee Batchelor]

I will never buy a 61 key keyboard again. When the T5 was released as either 61 or 76, I was delighted! Too restrictive having to rely on the Octave button all the time. At least with the 76, the extra space requirements are insignificant and the need for punching the Octave button is almost gone.

Besides, it's not a question of 76 vs. 61 keys. It's more a question of 76 vs. 88 keys. People who are true concert-style piano players but enjoy the electronic route need 88 keys. I suppose that's who the CP4 and Clavinova series is for .

[Pino]

Lee

Wouldn’t it be great if you were to put up some of your music here of you playing the 76 keys
I’m sure you have your music somewhere,
I look forward to near you play the 76 keys.
It’s good to hear other musicians play their keyboards.

Pino

[valimaties]

I'm a gigging musician, that’s the reason for my post, Genos 61, smaller, lighter,

Eileen, My dream is that I can still play music as good as you when I’m older and still go out gigging,   Well done to you 🌹

Hi Pino.

I'm a gig player, too, but I don't like 61 keyboards. 76 helps me splitting my keyboard for multiple voices playing on song when you don't have time to change between registrations or OTS-es, and is quite "seamless" too  

[ugawoga]

Hi
I am with Lee and val on this one.
The extra space is just what it is which means you can use it as Lee has said and i do use it all the time.
Eg,  playing songs like Albatoss, fleetwood Mac, it is great for the upper counter melodies.
The 76 is absolutely a must for me as it opens up lots more without reaching for an octave button.
Also great for splitting the keyboard.
War of the Worlds theme is another example that you need a 76 note keyboard

All the Best
john

[Lee Batchelor]

Pino, I have considered posting some songs but have never found the time to learn the extremely complicated and buggy methods for recording MIDI into Cubase. To achieve a decent recording, there's always some major stumbling block we need to work around, despite the overly simplistic descriptions about recording the Genos to a DAW, as described in the manuals. I suppose I could record some audio, but with MIDI you can do some extra fine-tuning.

I hope to keep my skills long enough to see Yamaha develope a dedicated Genos software interface that talks directly with any DAW! They did it for the Motif users. I bought the first Motif ES7 in Canada on the promise that it was "easy to record into Cubase." That statement was a sick joke. Even veteran recording enthusiasts like myself had a lot of trouble getting the Motif ES to play nice with Cubase. This went on for about a year when suddenly Yamaha came out with a free  add-on for Cubase. They also released a standalone version of the same interfacing software - again for free. When opened, the software configured Cubase and the Motif ES for instant recording. All you had to do was add MIDI tracks and start recording. Prior to that, it took about an hour of fiddling to make all the connections work.

Where's this software for the Genos and the Tyros before it??? I'd wager people would gladly pay decent money for this. Despite all the wonderful things we can do with the Genos, it's still basically a "live playing machine." Let us record with it and it becomes 10 times the value. The only limitation would be our imagination and musical prowess. So, Yamaha - either pump out a simple DAW for the Genos or stop making empty promises about the wonders of recording the Genos to a DAW. I don't see it myself.

Sorry for the rant, Pino. But that's why I haven't recorded anything yet .

[EileenL]

Hi Lee,
  What is so terribly wrong with just siting down and playing your Genos through the Audio recorder.
It gives a very good recording and people love listening to live recording to. It usually inspires us to go and try it ourselves and that is nice.
  In my opinion people don't want to hear something sounding just like a recording you can go out and buy, they want to hear someone just sitting and playing there keyboard and not all these fancy add on's.
  Give it a try.

[Shade of pale]

Hi
I am with Lee and val on this one.
The extra space is just what it is which means you can use it as Lee has said and i do use it all the time.
Eg,  playing songs like Albatoss, fleetwood Mac, it is great for the upper counter melodies.
The 76 is absolutely a must for me as it opens up lots more without reaching for an octave button.
Also great for splitting the keyboard.
War of the Worlds theme is another example that you need a 76 note keyboard

All the Best


I’d love to hear “Albatross “ playing on Genos, quiet a different song choice from good old standards, so glad to see, btw, I love standards as well. And I love Fleetwood Mac during those British’s blue period. 😎

john

[Lee Batchelor]

Hi Lee,
  What is so terribly wrong with just siting down and playing your Genos through the Audio recorder.
It gives a very good recording and people love listening to live recording to. It usually inspires us to go and try it ourselves and that is nice.
  In my opinion people don't want to hear something sounding just like a recording you can go out and buy, they want to hear someone just sitting and playing there keyboard and not all these fancy add on's.
  Give it a try.

Because I make enough mistakes as to embarrass myself . With MIDI, you can do some serious cleaning up of the train wrecks. I suppose you can do the same with audio by using the "punch in/punch out" feature in Cubase. If you rush a phrase, you can also do a little time-shifting. All those things are so much easier to correct with MIDI. I certainly agree that we need to keep the human feel in a recording. That too is easier with MIDI - not audio.

EDIT Eileen, as for fancy add-ons, the Genos has all kinds of them .

[Antonio]

Hallo Pino !

I think the right solution is for you to look at the PSR-SX900. The Genos will never be 61 keys.
Regads

[EileenL]

I always record in midi first and then I can adjust things like  volume and pan. Then I just record the midi into the WAV recorder.

[Lee Batchelor]

That works, Eileen but the onboard MIDI editing on any keyboard is very primitive, awkward, and time consuming. I too have recorded MIDI on the Genos and imported it to Cubase for easier editing. That works perfectly. It's when you want to add a bunch of other tracks when things go straight down the toilet. That's why we need a dedicated software interface. For some reason, the arranger keyboards do not play well with any DAW. It's been that way for about 30 years when the first PSRs came out. It was the same old story back then, "You can record your PSR600 into a DAW." Yeah, good luck with that !

Yamaha needs to break this mindset of creating a pro-level keyboard with inadequate tools for recording. They did it with the Motif series. Why not the Tyros and Genos series. In their own way, they are just as interesting keyboards.

[Pino]

Lee, everything you said about the recording method on YAMAHA keyboards I agree with, but, it is what it is, and looks like we have to get on with it.

Yamaha has just launched another new keyboard range supposedly an up-to-date tech keyboard, there was a much better sequencer on the Technics keyboards of over 20 years ago, it’s as though Yamaha’s thinking that we’re all older home players and no need to bother with it,

I’m surprised that you have nearly 1700 posts here and not at any time had the need to put up a little bit of your music here as an example of how to do something, a while ago I put up this song as an example of how less is sometime more, turning off some style parts,

One tip on the Easy Recording, turn the tempo down to what suits you whilst recording.

I have about 60 of my recorded songs on my iPhone, how nice to listen to whilst on a train journey to work or waiting at the dentist surgery.

Pino

https://app.box.com/s/hhgtlm4anjgwr57i4r5n0gqm3kh6z0b6

[Pino]

Hi
I am with Lee and val on this one.
The extra space is just what it is which means you can use it as Lee has said and i do use it all the time.

John and Vali
Guys, your getting confused here, this post is not about how good you are on playing a 76 key keyboard, it’s about moving your keyboard maybe from your bedroom studio to you car or truck and then getting to your gig and haveing to carry it to maybe a function room upstairs and then having just a small space in the coroner to set-up.

Why do other players here that already own a Genos/Tyros go out to buy a PSR for gigging?

How does Korg come out with a PA4X 76 & 61 without any effort at all, someone’s post saying that Yamaha haven’t the resources to do this.

I will still live in hope cos the new SX900 has very little compared to a Genos and should never be mentioned in the same sentence.

No more talk from me on this subject

Happy playing to everyone 🎹

Pino

[panos]

Hi Pino,
The overal size of Tyros line and Genos is bigger than the psr line and the PA4x.
I don't think it is only a "length" issue.
From what I read here,sometimes people prefer to take with them the s970,instead of their Genos, because they can use just it's on board speakers.
It's seems a better option than taking the Genos,the mixing console,speakers,woofer etc. in all cases.
E.g to play to a party,to a friend's house,or in a small venue with not too many people.

If someone don't use some octaves on his keyboard, I don't think he's been bothered of being there in any other case.

Apart form the usage of "splitting" the keyboard in two
(really great feature for moving your hand to the next or previous octave to play instantly a small melody line and return to the main "sound"  ),
76 keys seem to be useful for playing arpeggios e.g ending the song with an arpeggio,or to play an improvisation.
Many times I needed the very last note to be at the octave that is missing.
The "Upper octave" button sometimes is not useful when there is not enough milliseconds to hit it and continue the arpeggio as you can understand.

I prefer to use the onboard midi recorder although I could use the DAW Fl studio for equalizing the sounds while hear them on my pc for better results and could use more than a 5 band EQ,other EQ filters,compressors,normalization etc.
I think it is a descent recorder that saves lot's of my time.

p.s
sometimes we buy a keyboard because of the differences between the models of what "we" can hear and not because of what others can tell or not.

[Bachus]

Hi Lee,
  What is so terribly wrong with just siting down and playing your Genos through the Audio recorder.
It gives a very good recording and people love listening to live recording to. It usually inspires us to go and try it ourselves and that is nice.
  In my opinion people don't want to hear something sounding just like a recording you can go out and buy, they want to hear someone just sitting and playing there keyboard and not all these fancy add on's.
  Give it a try.

There is nothing wrong with that...

However you tend to forget that everyone uses the Genos in his own way..

I will give an example of things people could use a daw for,,
When creating backings with the Genos, you want to be able to edit them, with modern tools like audio edditors, but also like a midi pianoroll..
Another thing people do using a Genos is making professional level recordings for use in the studio. Same story..

Now there are many things whcih still could be improved on the Genos, and everyone has their own opinion on them..
Daw integration like the montage has would improve some of them.
For me personally an ipad app (like they offer from yamaha for their piano range) that fills the holes with :
- remote display for music and lyrics
- real time sound edditor able to edit and create sounds in the Genos on the level of yem or even modx
- real time midi edditor, with piano roll, they could just use the Cubasis tools for this.
- an audio edditor, looper, slicer.
- data management tool, allowing direct management of usb data, but also of the expansion packs and sounds
- midi conversion tool, creating a style from a midi file..
- pattern sequencer used for sound creation
- integration of AUv3 running on ipad with the genos
- the functionallity of V-console, allowing you to assign the sequencer voices to left and right hand..
Etc etc etc...  yamaha allready has many tools developed for ipad, all they need is to offer them in a dedicated package for The Genos.
All they need to make possible is the use of the USB interface for audio..

There are some rumors about this on a German website..
Because Cubasis 3.0 is just around the corner
Ipad OS 13 offers many many new options for programs like this.
The rumor ismpart of the Oktober Genos patch rumor..

All in all, just a rumor, but ome that would make me happy..
An ipad support app would fit the Genos much better for most users then fullfledged daw integration
And would fit Yamaha EU’s experience and profile better..


So many people, so many needs, thats also the problem the development team faces
Since they don’t openly communicate with the musicians in the way Yamaha US does,
They have a hard time to find out how important the userbase vouches certain improvements to be added, because of this.
Just check out on the Yamaha US synth forum owned by Yamaha how openly they discuss and help people there, its enlightening.
We need to look outside of our own situation, and ask ourself why would somebody else need this,
And look less to our own situation and aks ourselves why would i need this?

[mikf]

I have never been comfortable playing 61 note keyboards, I used a full size controller when I had a PSR. The other problem is that many of the 61 note keyboards actually have smaller than standard individual keys. Although this may not seem much, and might actually help a new player, experienced keyboard players can find the difference uncomfortable. Weight of the bigger top end keyboards can be quite a bit more, nd I can see that being a deciding factor for some, but the size added by 15 extra keys is minimal about 7 inches at worst, and it's hard to imagine a gig situation where that could make a difference. I say at worst, because on the 76 key Kenos they seemed to save length elsewhere to offset some of this.
As far as recording is concerned, I seldom post any myself. Like many gigging musicians, I played almost all my life live for thousands of people, and dont find much need to post here for others, unless its to demonstrate a technical point.
Mike

[Bachus]

I have never been comfortable playing 61 note keyboards, I used a full size controller when I had a PSR. The other problem is that many of the 61 note keyboards actually have smaller than standard individual keys. Although this may not seem much, and might actually help a new player, experienced keyboard players can find the difference uncomfortable. Weight of the bigger top end keyboards can be quite a bit more, nd I can see that being a deciding factor for some, but the size added by 15 extra keys is minimal about 7 inches at worst, and it's hard to imagine a gig situation where that could make a difference. I say at worst, because on the 76 key Kenos they seemed to save length elsewhere to offset some of this.
As far as recording is concerned, I seldom post any myself. Like many gigging musicians, I played almost all my life live for thousands of people, and dont find much need to post here for others, unless its to demonstrate a technical point.
Mike

For anyone using the Genos to play piano style, for example in intro’s, the 76 keys is a must. Also when using the R3 on a seperate split, or even left, chords, r1+r2, r3 on sepperate splits... 76 key is the only option.

And as you say, the extra width is only 9x 7/8” which is 8” ... at 13 kg seems to me that the Genos is the perfect size for a gigging keyboard..

[ugawoga]

John and Vali
Guys, your getting confused here, this post is not about how good you are on playing a 76 key keyboard, it’s about moving your keyboard maybe from your bedroom studio to you car or truck and then getting to your gig and haveing to carry it to maybe a function room upstairs and then having just a small space in the corner to set-up.

Why do other players here that already own a Genos/Tyros go out to buy a PSR for gigging?

How does Korg come out with a PA4X 76 & 61 without any effort at all, someone’s post saying that Yamaha haven’t the resources to do this.

I will still live in hope cos the new SX900 has very little compared to a Genos and should never be mentioned in the same sentence.

No more talk from me on this subject

Happy playing to everyone 🎹

Pino


Hi Pino

I can tell you from experience that the Tyros is a monster when it comes to weight.
I had two years of **** lifting my Tyros out of my man cave and into the box for taking to music shop to get the Genos.
I had suffered twinging in my groin and base of my spine . I had a trapped nerve and sciatica
I ignored my other half to wait until she came home to help me as i was getting exited about the thought of getting my Genos. I paid the full price of being impatient.
I can also tell you that the 76 note Genos is like a featherwieght compared with the Tyros.
Through rest and lots of execise, i am back to normal after those two years.
The Tyros is like a block of concrete.
I remember Pino when i ran a disco for 15 years i had a roadie mate to help and perhaps it is best to take a friend to help for a few dollars more or Euro's or ££
As you probably know that when entertaining, if you have a decent speaker and amp set up not cutting corners the public will not notice what keyboard you play.
There is a lot of noise at gigs unless you are Rick Wakeman, Jorden Ruddess, or Yanni.
I think that if you do not need a 76 note keyboard and happy with the 61 note, the new PSR would be  great, providing that you can load all your musical stuff into it without having to re-adjust everything.
The Genos to me is not heavy and anyway there is always someone at hand at clubs to help you in and out for a pint of beer!!.


All the best
john

[Pino]

Thanks John for your witty posts 😀
You always make me giggle 😅
I always read your posts and follow you on Soundcloud.
Good luck with your playing and your recording studio.🎹

Regards

Pino

[Lee Batchelor]

Yes, excellent posts John!

One small techy note for you when posting. In the post you just added (sadly, there are no post numbers on this forum), place a [/quote] tag at the end the quoted message and your comments about the post. Doing so closes the quote. Another way is to click the Quote button in the upper right corner.

Keep them coming, my friend !

[Lee Batchelor]

Pino, as someone mentioned, I do a lot of gigging and find virtually no time to sit and record. To be honest, I'd like to do just as you request - slow down on the road work and just record !

I'll give it a try as soon as I can. I just came off a good theatrical show with two sold-out crowds. I backed two singers for a Willie Nelson, Buddy Holly, and Patsy Cline tribute show. It was an odd combination but very well received .

[mikf]

Further to Lee’s point about use of quotes. It’s worth pointing out that if you want to use a quote to make it obvious that you are replying to a specific post or point it is seldom necessary to use the whole quote. Especially if it is lengthy. You should click the quote button then edit the quote down to just a relevant line or so using the delete. This avoids strings of posts which are repeat everything previously posted.
Mike

[ugawoga]

Hi
Yo must admit "It looks nice in Blue"!!

Ok I made a Blue Boo!!

atb
John