Topic: an Email address for a feature request for Genos update.

[markstyles]

Does anyone know an email address to request a feature for a future Genos update?

My proposal is:  Make Megavoices playable by hand.   


The Mega voices are great, but not really playable by human hand.  I would like a feature, which would take one of the sliders and use it to move between the different samples used in mega voice.  If you look at data manual for mega voices, different velocities pick a sample, then increasing velocity makes that sound louder, when of that sample reaches its loudest,, then a new sample is used.  This is perfect for Styles parts.

  I would like the velocity to keep the same loudness, but move thru the different samples used.  The hardware is already there.  I imagine it would be only a small amount of code to do this. 

[EileenL]

Megga voices are designed for use in styles only and I don't see them ever changing. We have lovely voices on Genos to choose from so why would you want these as well.

[Bachus]

Does anyone know an email address to request a feature for a future Genos update?

My proposal is:  Make Megavoices playable by hand.   


The Mega voices are great, but not really playable by human hand.  I would like a feature, which would take one of the sliders and use it to move between the different samples used in mega voice.  If you look at data manual for mega voices, different velocities pick a sample, then increasing velocity makes that sound louder, when of that sample reaches its loudest,, then a new sample is used.  This is perfect for Styles parts.

  I would like the velocity to keep the same loudness, but move thru the different samples used.  The hardware is already there.  I imagine it would be only a small amount of code to do this.

its not really possible the way mega voices work right now..
They use different vellocity layers for different things

The mega voices tech is a herritage..
When people asked for playable mega voices yamaha came with a sollution

Thosevoices are the super articulation voices

[pjd]

Just to build on Bachus's comment, I've investigated the guitar and bass voices right down to the samples.

Yep, the SA voices use the same samples as the MegaVoices. Yamaha basically added software smarts on top of the MegaVoices to get the SA voices.

Now, I will agree that the original bass and guitar samples are getting long in the tooth. They were recorded and coded when waveform memory was tighter than today. So, the basic quality of the original bass and guitar samples aren't up to the same quality level as the most recent active bass sample set. The "vintage" basses are a little younger than the very first MegaVoices.

All the best -- pj

[Lee Batchelor]

The mega voices tech is a heritage. When people asked for playable mega voices Yamaha came with a solution. Those voices are the super articulation voice.

True, however, all megavoices have always been playable on the Motif and now Montage series.

Yep, the SA voices use the same samples as the MegaVoices. Yamaha basically added software smarts on top of the MegaVoices to get the SA voices.

I agree with PJ about the bass voices being out of date. As per another post, I find it difficult to achieve a satisfactory and consistent sound from Mega bass voices played at show levels. I usually have to re-record the bass tracks mapped with the more up-to-date SA voices. Toward that end, it would be great if we could simply turn off the Megavoice coding. Doing so would leave behind the very useful playing by the experts who Yamaha recorded. Is there a way to filter out the Megavoice elements? Perhaps through the style creator? It would solve a lot of problems for me !!

[pjd]

Hi Lee --

I don't perform with styles, but I do add bass with my left hand to whatever ensemble I'm playing with. I appreciate the need for a consistent, soild bottom when playing live.

One possibility is to use the UNI COMP compressor as an insertion effect on the bass part. Yamaha added the UNI COMP to many Genos style parts. (One reason why Genos sounds different than T5.) There are UNI COMP presets for electric bass, acoustic bass, drums, etc.

The UNI COMP has a jillion parameters and would be a tweaker's delight. :-)

EQ alone doesn't seem to be doing the trick for ya.

All the best -- pj

P.S. The Motif/MOX XF/XS have the same samples and MegaVoices, but make better use of DSP insert effects.

[Lee Batchelor]

Didn't know that about the Uni Comp compressor. In fact, I've never heard of it. I'll give it a try. If it would straighten out the bass lines, it would be a major headache off my to-do list!! I work with three solid artists who rely on my styles. They love them. They should. After all, it's a Genos . Thanks!!

[Lee Batchelor]

PJ, I typed "UNI COMP" into the search box for the User and Reference manuals. There's no such reference. Can you steer me in the right direction? Thanks. I'm anxious to give this a try, especially since I run a subwoofer a lot.

[pjd]

No problem, Lee.

The UNI COMP is a type of DSP effect and is listed with the other insertion effects in the Data List PDF. The presets are listed on page 50 and the individual effect parameters are listed on page 66 of the Data List file. The effect category is EQ & COMP.

As an insert effect, it would be added to a part in the Mixer just like any other insertion effect type (e.g., distortion, whatever)

I'd experiment with it myself, but Genos is on a moving truck somewhere in the continental US.  Hopefully, we get our stuff in the next few days. We've pretty much been living out of suitcases for two months....

All the best -- pj

[Lee Batchelor]

Thanks, PJ. I'll give that a go. Happy camping !

[markstyles]

My proposal (which I perhaps didn't make clear)is that by programmers writing a bit of code, and using existing hardware in GENOS you could get much more variation out of a solo right hand part in performance or recording guitar parts.

If you look at page 15 of Genos Data Manual (available to download at Yamaha), you will see that On MOST of guitar MEGA voices, there are 8 different sounds available to use. Above C5 you also have strum and fret noise..

Velocity 1 - 20 = open soft
Velocity 21 - 40 = open hard
Velocity 41 - 60 = slap
Velocity 61 - 75 = dead
Velocity 76 - 90= mute
Velocity 91 - 106 = hammer
Velocity 106 - 120 = slide
Velocity 121 - 127 = pick harmonics

Numbers between values listed above control volume of the sample. So if programmers wrote a simple piece of code that allowed a designated slider on Genos,
it would output CC values of 19, 39, 59, 74, 89, 105, 119, one would be able to play the loudest volume of each of those samples.  It would allow one to effortless slide between articulations of the guitar sound, making for a much more realistic solo.  The mega voices, in the styles generated parts are one of the shining example of why the Genos (and Tyros) sound so great.

Currently Electic Guitar parts that are available to play are only Art voice, which only change the brightness of note by velocity. 

These feature could be added by writing a small amount of code into Genos OS. 

I have played Mega voices for solo lead guitar work; it is impossible for me at least to get proper velocities. I then go into list editor of Logic Pro, and quantize different velocities to get a nice solo out of it. I often edit important notes one at a time, by moving velocity up/down on piano roll editor, to find a sample I like.  The result is significantly an improvement.  Through the multi-distortion DSP on it, and you're cooking.

[Joe H]

Mark,

Yamaha monitor this forum.  So what you just posted will get reviewed.  The last time I emailed Yamaha with a suggestion they told me they are NOT accepting ideas via email any more for legal reasons. (they don't want to have to pay royalties for our ideas I suppose). They told me to post my ideas on this forum and even included a link.

Joe H

[pjd]

Hi Mark --

I definitely got your suggestion. I'd like to make an additional proposal, or maybe an alternative -- key switching as implemented by many software instruments (so-called VSTs).

One octave is dedicated  to a set of keyswitches. The first key selects open hard, the second key selects open soft, etc. While holding a key in the dedicated keys, the musician plays notes in a different key zone, maybe RIGHT1. The instrument chooses and applies the sample/articulation which is selected in the key switching zone.

Key switching would allow more precision for selecting the desired sample/articulation while the velocity of the played keys in RIGHT1 determines the actual note velocity. The disadvantage versus your proposal is that keys (within a key zone) must be given over to selection (instead of a fader).

I agree -- Yamaha could make a lot of improvments and enhancements in this area.

All the best -- pj

[KeyboardByBiggs]

Key switching would allow more precision for selecting the desired sample/articulation

I agree key switching could be an awesome addition. Basically, it would like having up to 12 articulation buttons.

[voodoo]

Pj,

You suggest a software on top of the given Mega voice samples to select the wanted effect.
A possible implementation could use a connected smart device (iPad, iPhone or a similar android device). There is a software called MidiFire for iOS that offers a MIDI scripting language. I think it should be possible to use this for a velocity transformation based on control keys.

Another solution would be to split the keyboard into several zones, each of them limited  to a given velocity range.

However, in practice I think that this is no solution that one wants to use in a live situation.

Uli

[pjd]

Hi Uli --

Thanks for mentioning MidiFire. I've been meaning to experiment with this key switching idea for quite some time. I built a simple Arduino MIDI IN/OUT box, but our move has gotten in the way of any experiments. MidiFire sounds like a good idea.

BTW, we finally got our household goods on Saturday. I haven't been able to test Genos or the computers yet -- still trying to find the right cables and pieces parts. Health issue is kind of getting in the way, too, unfortunately.

Always good to hear from you and everyone else here -- pj

[Bachus]

Mark,

Yamaha monitor this forum.  So what you just posted will get reviewed.  The last time I emailed Yamaha with a suggestion they told me they are NOT accepting ideas via email any more for legal reasons. (they don't want to have to pay royalties for our ideas I suppose). They told me to post my ideas on this forum and even included a link.

Joe H

In general they don’t do much with the ideas proposed on these forums..
They should talk with their US synth support team

I think they where just hiding behind the legal ****..
Its an easy way out answer..

While i enjoy my Genos for what it is
I blame the German Yamaha division for arrangers not being attractive to younger people anymore
Despite all the great ideas on forums like this, they are still unimaginative..

Why did it take them over a decade to implement the chord sequencer/looper feature many have asked for into the sx900 now?  Compare this to the major steps yanaha is making with the montage every year..

If they would have made those steps with Genos also, we would have been in keyboard heaven by now

[Joe H]

Bachus,

I agree, but Yamaha think that an arranger should not function like a synth.  But I think they are slowly learning that the new generation arranger buyer want the arranger to be a "synth arranger".  That's why I bought the Motif Rack XS and you are looking to buy a synth that will integrate with your Genos. I personally think you already have the perfect synth in the MODX that will integrate with the Genos.

Having a Yamaha synth and arranger is having the best of both worlds.  I don't believe Yamaha will ever make an instrument that will combine the features of their synths and arrangers in a single instrument. 

When I brought the issue of integrating the Motif with the arranger on the Yamaha synth forum, Bad Mister blew me off and insulted me. He wasn't interested at all. So I learned how to do it on my own and maybe I will write a tutorial on what we can do by combining the power of a synth with the power of an advanced arranger.

I think the only answer to our wish of having a "synth arranger" is to learn how to make the 2 instruments work together and compliment one another.

Joe H

[EileenL]

Yamaha have always preferred the direct approach and do not take that much notice of forums. There technical staff are kept to busy listening to people and helping them solve problems. 

[Lee Batchelor]

Yamaha has always preferred the direct approach and do not take that much notice of forums. Their technical staff is kept too busy listening to people and helping them solve problems.

Which brings us back to the original question . Where can North Americans (U.S. and Canada) make contact? Is there a specific email address? Thank, Eileen.

- Lee

[Joe H]

Yamaha have always preferred the direct approach and do not take that much notice of forums. There technical staff are kept to busy listening to people and helping them solve problems.

Well things may be different in the UK than the USA.  I was told by US Yamaha Support that marketing managers DO monitor this forum. And Yamaha has implemented many ideas proposed right here in their arrangers.

Joe H

[metcam]

DO monitor this forum. And Yamaha has implemented many ideas proposed right here in their arrangers.

Joe H

That is correct 100% 

Best regards!

[EileenL]

Hi Lee,
  Addresses for different countries are usually at the back off the manual.   

[Lee Batchelor]

The manual? Why would I look there, Eileen (LOL) ! Just kidding, of course. Thanks, I'll check it out.

Nice to know that Yamaha U.S. does keep an eye on things here.