Topic: What means CASM

[valimaties]

Hi.

For ALL of those which asked themselves "What means CASM word?!" ...

I send a mail to Yamaha and asked them to tell me what means CASM word, what is the acronym, they told me "officially" : "Means nothing: it's just a word".

What I think about?! I think it is not true! It cannot be just a word. It has to have a signification, it cannot happened like "an engineer, in the night, he wakes up to go to bathroom, and while sitting on the toilet, he has an extraordinary idea to set the name of this style's area as CASM, like his babies and dogs  "

I think they don't want to tell us or really they don't know what was Yamaha's CASM creator idea!

What do you think guys? 

Regards,
Vali

[pjd]

Hi Vali --

We do know that "CASM" is the four character identifier at the beginning of the CASM chunk in a style MIDI file. That's the extent of it's technical meaning.

If I was an engineer inventing the four letter identifier, I would think it means "Chord Assembly". "ASM" usually means assembly or assembler to me. Perhaps Yamaha have a tool to assemble the chord data that is stored in the CASM chunk?

Some random engineer in Yamaha Japan really knows the answer to this question...

All the best -- pj

[Toril S]

pj, that is an excellent suggestion! And it helps me to remember what CASM means!

[SeaGtGruff]

We've talked about this before, but those posts were probably lost in the purge. My suggestions were based on the different functions that the CASM chunk serves.

The most obvious suggestion for "C" is probably "Chord" or "Chordal," but I think another possibility is "Channel," because the CASM chunk specifies which MIDI channels to use for which style parts-- that is, "source channel" and "destination channel." So "CA" could stand for "Channel Assignment."

Likewise, the most obvious suggestion for "S" is probably "Style," but I think another possibility is "Section," because the CASM chunk handles the sections of the style file. So "SM" could stand for "Section Management."

CASM = Channel Assignment / Section Management?

[valimaties]

Thanks pj.

I created this post because somewhere in this forum was a discussion about this term "CASM" and nobody knows how to "translate".

It is  "non-professional" and inadmissible as an official representative of such a renowned company to tell that CASM "means nothing, it's just a word"

This is the mail I received :



Regards,
Vali

[SeaGtGruff]

I don't think you're going to find any customer support representatives who know the answer, because I doubt anyone's ever told them what it means. Most likely you'd need to go to some senior-level person in technical support or style development who's been around long enough to know.

By the way, it would probably be better if you'd scratched out the name and email address of the individual who replied to you before posting that email.

[mikf]

Why should everything be an acronym? What is wrong with just a 'name'.  Even the acronyms are generally just made up anyway. Typically everyone sits around and comes up with acronyms for something that makes reasonable sense, but when it doesnt make a pronounceable catchy word, they change the  acronym to something else. This process carries on until there is a silly compromise where the marketing guys like the sound and the engineers think it makes some sort of sense.  Been there, done that many times. And more than once vetoed all the silly made-up acronyms and just chose something for devilment, because I knew it would drive people mad trying to work out an acronym which didn't actually exist!
Mike

[SeaGtGruff]

Some acronyms are obviously made up before they're defined.

BASIC = Beginner's All-purpose Symbolic Instructional Code

Really? Shouldn't that have been BAPSIC?

S.H.I.E.L.D. = whatever S.H.I.E.L.D. is supposed to mean.

I think CASM probably meant something when Yamaha came up with it, but it was probably never meant to be something that the end users should ever even know about, let alone what it stands for. Yamaha doesn't even tell their own employees what it means, unless there's a genuine need to know. And year after year, as old employees die or retire, the number of people at Yamaha who know what CASM means probably gets smaller and smaller.

[Lee Batchelor]

Who cares what CASM stands for. The question you should be asking is, "What does it do in relation to style creation?" When I'm creating a style and want a certain behavior, I need to make changes to the CASM settings. Therein lies the ultimate mystery. Yamaha is very content to tell us that we can create styles but shrouds the CASM settings in total mystery. The explanations about CASM settings in the reference manual are nothing short of a joke. They describe the "what" but not the "how."

Forget the meaning. Go after the "how to use the darn things." Just my two cents worth .

[Joe H]

... It is  "non-professional" and inadmissible as an official representative of such a renowned company to tell that CASM "means nothing, it's just a word"

I agree totally.

 

Joe H

[valimaties]

Who cares what CASM stands for.

Not me. I don't care what means CASM (or yes  ), I don't give a s (or I do  ).... But it was some questions in a post I read some days ago, and curiously, no one who post here and give some explanations (like Sea...) post there too
Personally, what bothered me most, was the position of an Yamaha official technical person about some questions of an user! I think it would have been more professional an answer like "We, Yamaha Europe don't know what means CASM word, we will ask the Japanese engineers team and we will give you their answer"

Regards,
Vali

[ugawoga]

C ommercial  A luminium  S ausage  M achine

To me Casm is like Chasm ---Filling in what is missing in a hole that is left.
You fill in what suits your needs.

All the best
John

[attachment deleted by admin]

[Fred Smith]

Not me. I don't care what means CASM (or yes  ), I don't give a s (or I do  ).... But it was some questions in a post I read some days ago, and curiously, no one who post here and give some explanations (like Sea...) post there too
Personally, what bothered me most, was the position of an Yamaha official technical person about some questions of an user! I think it would have been more professional an answer like "We, Yamaha Europe don't know what means CASM word, we will ask the Japanese engineers team and we will give you their answer"

Why is it "non-professional and inadmissible" to tell the truth?

For someone who says he doesn’t care, you sure have taken up a lot of bandwidth.

It’s time to move on, Vali.

Cheers,
Fred

[Dromeus]

We do know that "CASM" is the four character identifier at the beginning of the CASM chunk in a style MIDI file. That's the extent of it's technical meaning.

If I was an engineer inventing the four letter identifier, I would think it means "Chord Assembly". "ASM" usually means assembly or assembler to me. Perhaps Yamaha have a tool to assemble the chord data that is stored in the CASM chunk?

Some random engineer in Yamaha Japan really knows the answer to this question...

Makes sense to me. Recall that the CASM chunk is really a collection of (one ore more) CSEG data chunks. I think SEG just means "segment". C could also mean "control", after all a CSEG contains additional instructions on how the style engine should interpret the MIDI data of the assigned style part.

In a nutshell: CSEG = control segment, CASM = control assembly. May be true, or not  .

[vlbrgt]

Why not :

Chord Automatic Synchronisation Module

Regards

[valimaties]

Fred, sorry, it is a simple opinion, and it is mine! This is my impression made by that email (seems sarcastic )!  It's like "you don't have to know what means, if you know what is inside and what you can do there, it's enough!" 

I think there are a lot of users which don't want to start creating styles or they are scared to open Style Creator or a software (where this term appear), because they don't know what does some functions, and they are scared to make some wrong things there! I don't think is wrong to know what means something! And is not only about CASM term, but all other terms which are unknown for some reasons.

PS: Control (or Chord) ASseMbly sounds realistic and @vlbrgt version can be, also

Regards,
Vali

[Fred Smith]

Fred, sorry, it is a simple opinion, and it is mine! This is my impression made by that email (seems sarcastic )!  It's like "you don't have to know what means, if you know what is inside and what you can do there, it's enough!" 

I think there are a lot of users which don't want to start creating styles or they are scared to open Style Creator or a software (where this term appear), because they don't know what does some functions, and they are scared to make some wrong things there! I don't think is wrong to know what means something! And is not only about CASM term, but all other terms which are unknown for some reasons.

PS: Control (or Chord) ASseMbly sounds realistic and @vlbrgt version can be, also

Your obsession over the meaning of the acronym isn’t making people (including me) any less scared.

I agree with Lee. It’s more important to learn what’s in the CASM, than to obsess about the acronym.

Cheers,
Fred

[MBedesem]

A few years ago, Peter Wierzba and I wrote a paper describing in great detail (55 pages) the internals of the style file as it was understood to be.

Nothing too threatening.

It is here: http://www.wierzba.homepage.t-online.de/StyleFileDescription_v21.pdf


Regards,

Michael

[Toril S]

The origin of words interests me as well.

[valimaties]

Your obsession over the meaning of the acronym isn’t making people (including me) any less scared.

I agree with Lee. It’s more important to learn what’s in the CASM, than to obsess about the acronym.

Cheers,
Fred

It's not an obsession. Rather I'm insistent, and it is difference between those two moods   I see it bothers you, personally. You never agree with any of my posts in the past, so I think you have something with me. Anything I wrote here you came and disagree or you try to change the meaning of the entire post! It's not the first time!

 

Vali

[valimaties]

Thank you Michael for this great manual. It is a very detailed one, I read most of it some days ago when I thought to extend my app to find and highlight all used voices in any of packs content, but I stopped when I realized that it is not enough and some of content will be missed, and it is a "not a good project"!

Best regards,
Vali

[ckobu]

Chord
Accompaniment
Style
Management

[panos]

Engineer Supervisor:
"Have you done any progress with that midi loop thing guys?"

First Engineer:
"Not a thing! Chords Are Sci-fi Mystery" 

Second Engineer:
"piff...Chords Are So Mean!" 

Third Engineer:
"Cannot Access Stylecreator Man!" 

Fourth Engineer:
"Channels Are Stupid Mistakes.I always told you that!!" 

Supervisor is looking at the floor cleaning lady in depress.
"Beats me.But if they ever succeed anything you better call it C A S M.
Can I clean the floor now??"

[beykock]

Hi Vali :

Most people here like your comments, input and knowledge, I guess, but you cannot expect everybody will always agree with your opinion.

Do not feel offended, accept and respect you cannot always get what you want.
That's life !

Best wishes, Babette

[Toril S]

I like the Panos explanation I believe the acronym once had meaning, but the meaning got lost. Yamaha focused on the function and not on perserving the meaning of the word. For those of us, like Vali and me, who are interested in the origin of words this is a pity, but it happens all the time. Language is a very interesting subject. Obsession? Maybe, but I would not go without it

[pjd]

A few years ago, Peter Wierzba and I wrote a paper describing in great detail (55 pages) the internals of the style file as it was understood to be.

Nothing too threatening.

It is here: http://www.wierzba.homepage.t-online.de/StyleFileDescription_v21.pdf


Regards,

Michael

Thanks, Michael and Peter! I have always regarded your document as essential reading for anyone interested in style creation.

Take care -- pj

[voodoo]

A few years ago, Peter Wierzba and I wrote a paper describing in great detail (55 pages) the internals of the style file as it was understood to be.

Nothing too threatening.

It is here: http://www.wierzba.homepage.t-online.de/StyleFileDescription_v21.pdf


Regards,

Michael

Michael,

I think, if there was a serious meaning of CASM, you should know about it. So it seems to be a technical keyword without known meaning from the kingdom of legacy.

Uli

[Toril S]

Word from the kingdom of legacy, I like that way of saying it!!

[ugawoga]

Wad yer mean Commercial Automatic Sausage Machine sounds better