Author Topic: Shots & Holds  (Read 2926 times)

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Offline Luluc

Shots & Holds
« on: August 17, 2019, 05:44:35 PM »
Hi all !

I have a newbie question : When playing a song, how do you realize your shots and holds on the Genos ?


« Last Edit: August 17, 2019, 06:41:01 PM by Luluc »
 

Offline EileenL

Re: Shots & Holds
« Reply #1 on: August 18, 2019, 11:24:37 AM »
What are shots and holds. Pleased explain in more detail.

Offline Luluc

Re: Shots & Holds
« Reply #2 on: August 18, 2019, 03:25:55 PM »
Here are some details about shots and holds :

Shot: A shot is just all instruments hitting the notes of the chord in unison and then not playing again until the next chord

Hold: A hold is similar to a shot, except that instead of silence after hitting the chord, the instruments continue to hold the note until the next chord. Obviously instruments with natural decay will do so, for ex. pianos, Acoustic bass or electric bass, guitars,...
 

Offline DrakeM

Re: Shots & Holds
« Reply #3 on: August 18, 2019, 03:53:21 PM »
I am pretty sure you can't control it.

I have never been able to stop the STRINGS from sounding until you lift your fingers. It drives me nuts, but I live with it.

Some instruments do fade out like the Harmonic I know.

Regards
Drake

Offline Luluc

Re: Shots & Holds
« Reply #4 on: August 18, 2019, 05:35:46 PM »
Ah OK, I understand now. So, I stop my trials, glad that is confirmed by experienced users.
It's a pity because mainly the holds are very used in music....I think that these features are missing in music arrangers.

Unless that somebody knows some workarounds...

Does this has already been asked to Yamaha in the past ?

 

Offline DrakeM

Re: Shots & Holds
« Reply #5 on: August 18, 2019, 07:07:12 PM »
Yea, I asked a couple years or so ago, if anybody knew how to fade out the strings and at that time nobody had a fix.

Offline EileenL

Re: Shots & Holds
« Reply #6 on: August 20, 2019, 11:17:42 AM »
Using the sustain pedal will hold any note other than the percussive ones until you lift the pedal. Strings and woodwind can be held for as long as you like after you have lifted your hands from the keyboard.

Offline Luluc

Re: Shots & Holds
« Reply #7 on: August 20, 2019, 08:19:01 PM »
OK for the sustain pedal, but in  a hold we have to sustain in the same time the bass, the guitar , the piano and some other voices depending on the style played AND we need to get a decay. that is why basses, guitars and pianos are very used to do that.
As it has been already mentionned, this feature is really missing. That would give a more pro performance as a live band would play.
 

Offline Ed B

Re: Shots & Holds
« Reply #8 on: August 22, 2019, 03:42:28 AM »
Hi
I am not familiar with your shots and holds terminology.
You can create very realistic arrangements in mixing. There is a 3 dimensional relationship between velocity, stereo position, and reverb. You use these to create depth to your mix.Panning sets the position on the stage from the left to right, velocity and reverb controls how far back or forward the instrument is located.  Each voice has these controls. In addition, you have adjustments for attack and decay using voice set for each voice.
As mentioned earlier you can use the sustain pedal which is primarily designed for piano on strings. But use it on the high notes.  If you use it on low notes it gives a muddy result. It is my opinion that  the keyboard gives you pretty good controls to get very realistic results.
Hope this gets at what you are trying to do.
Regards
Ed B
Keep on learning
 

Offline Joe H

Re: Shots & Holds
« Reply #9 on: August 22, 2019, 04:16:02 AM »
If you can find strings SF2 samples or other sounds you want on the internet, you can create a new pack and Import those into YEM and tweak the amplitude and Filter envelopes to make them decay the way you want. Then save them as a pack and load the Voice into Genos.

Joe H
Music is the Universal Language!

My Article: Using Multi Pads for EDM. Download Regs, Styles & MPs:  http://psrtutorial.com/music/articles/dancemusic.html
 

Offline valimaties

Re: Shots & Holds
« Reply #10 on: August 22, 2019, 09:32:26 AM »
OK for the sustain pedal, but in  a hold we have to sustain in the same time the bass, the guitar , the piano and some other voices depending on the style played AND we need to get a decay. that is why basses, guitars and pianos are very used to do that.
As it has been already mentionned, this feature is really missing. That would give a more pro performance as a live band would play.

I could bet I saw a video where the demonstrator uses the hold function using pedal, but I can not found the video for now (I don't know which keyboard, if it was Peter Baartmans, I don't remember, I heard a lot of demos in the past week).
But is the first time when I hear about bass sustain on pedal! In which genre of music you use sustain on bass?!

Regards,
Vali
______________________________________________
As long as you live, you learn continuously.
My youtube channel - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCzi9PPrMTjN8_zX9P9kelxg

Vali Maties - Genos
 

Offline EileenL

Re: Shots & Holds
« Reply #11 on: August 22, 2019, 01:30:30 PM »
Organ players use Bass sustain a lot as do people who have pedal boards connected to there keyboards where they don't want a short staby bass note. Would be used mainly for playing ballad type music.

Offline mikf

Re: Shots & Holds
« Reply #12 on: August 23, 2019, 10:42:03 AM »
I had never heard the 'shots and holds' terminology either, but I think that they are BIAB terms rather than general music terms. If you are creating a style, which is where I believe it would be used in BIAB, I don't think there would be any difficulty in playing notes to hold - just hold them down for the duration, or single shot - don't hold them???
Mike
 

Offline valimaties

Re: Shots & Holds
« Reply #13 on: August 23, 2019, 11:44:05 AM »
I found this article:
https://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=200556

Maybe is useful. :)

Regards,
Vali
______________________________________________
As long as you live, you learn continuously.
My youtube channel - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCzi9PPrMTjN8_zX9P9kelxg

Vali Maties - Genos
 

Offline ekurburski

Re: Shots & Holds
« Reply #14 on: August 23, 2019, 07:12:32 PM »
BIAB has had shots and holds for years.
PSR740, PSR3000, tx7, mt32, mirage, ProTiools 10,11 Sonar,  Reaper, BIAB2019
 

Offline Luluc

Re: Shots & Holds
« Reply #15 on: August 23, 2019, 07:38:01 PM »
Yes, 'Shots & Holds' is a BIAB terminology. In BIAB, I used to play shots and holds in my BIAB songs. So, with the Genos, I'm disappointed for this feature is really missing.
Many MP3 songs I've listened to in the PSR tutorial pages, do not have any holds. But holds are very used in music in pop songs for example.

As DrakeM said in this topic, it is not possible to do that with the Genos.
 

Offline valimaties

Re: Shots & Holds
« Reply #16 on: August 25, 2019, 12:49:34 PM »
I've saw this video on youtube. This is  about using hold and shots on specific chords, selecting some channels on not.

I don't understand a thing. This is made to a midi file, or to a style?! Because all those things in video can be made easily in a style using style creator and step edit.

______________________________________________
As long as you live, you learn continuously.
My youtube channel - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCzi9PPrMTjN8_zX9P9kelxg

Vali Maties - Genos
 

Offline Luluc

Re: Shots & Holds
« Reply #17 on: August 25, 2019, 07:57:03 PM »
valimaties, the vid in question is about Band In A Box and has nothing to see with the Genos. That explains what are shots and holds.
The shots and holds are realized with RealTracks which are real musicians records tracks. That is a great feature that is very used in pop/rock arrangements and more.
Unfortunately, it is not available on the Genos.
 

Offline mikf

Re: Shots & Holds
« Reply #18 on: August 25, 2019, 09:54:38 PM »
But Valimatis point is valid. You can do them easily on any arranger in the style because styles are created on the keyboard. BIAB is not created on a keyboard, so they had to come up with a special way to create them. In my view the reason you donít have this on a Genos - or any other Yamaha arranger- is because you donít need it!
Mike
 

Online panos

Re: Shots & Holds
« Reply #19 on: August 26, 2019, 04:37:58 AM »
Hi Luluc,
we have some organs playing chords in the style section and some organs usually playing the melody with the right hand voices.
Where these "shots and holds" should be located?
a) In the style (chord) section or
b) while playing with the right hand, lets say a piano and a violin voice and we want the piano voice to be sustained while the violin voice should fade out immediately.

As far as I can see in BIAB videos, you set all the chord progression in the style and now the style "acts" like a ready made midi without the melody lines.