Author Topic: Chord sequencer..  (Read 110072 times)

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Offline Bachus

Chord sequencer..
« on: July 21, 2019, 04:48:13 PM »
Just wondering...

Does anyone use a chord sequencer with genos..
I could use the midi player, record a chord track, and then reroute it trough midi out, back to the midi in channel that has chord recognition set.

But in the end its easier to record the chord sequence in my midi looper on the ipad, and then play it..

Just wondering if anyone found a way to do this inside the genos. Recording a midi track and playing it and directly have the genos recognise chords on that track?  Would be nice to set this up for a certain song, i could use markers to have different chord sequences in a single performance.

Or do you guys in case where you want a looped backing, just record the whole accomp to the midi player, and then use a perf memmory to play this part over midi while having 2 hands free to lets sya play a 2handed piano or organ part.. or even a solo guitar with lots of pitch and modulation changes?

Sometimes you just need 2 hands to play the music, while not being able to play the chords live...
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Re: Chord sequencer..
« Reply #1 on: July 21, 2019, 11:18:51 PM »
I totally understand why you're looking to do this. It's important to me as well.

I do this a couple of different ways, but none of them work as a live looper if that's what you're looking for exactly.

The two main ways I handle this are (forgive me if I'm preaching to the choir here)...

1) Build a MIDI sequence (part by part) of the song minus the part I wish to play. Basically the same process you'd follow if you had a full band or orchestra rehearsing and performing their parts to perform together (except you're everyone :) ). If you want the ability to extend parts of the song in performance ("Hey, I think I'll take another solo!") you can place MIDI markers and trigger section repeats at will in your live performance of the song.

2) For something quick and dirty, but quite effective, I just turn on MIDI recording and perform the song all the way through playing the left-hand chords and triggering intros, fills, and endings (or other live adjustments) just like you would if you were using all the arranger functions to perform a song in real time. This will quickly give you a nice track with which you can play more complex two-handed parts live.
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Offline robinez

Re: Chord sequencer..
« Reply #2 on: July 23, 2019, 08:56:31 AM »
i agree, i miss it too, i would love to have the same implementation as on the korg pa4x.

I didn't try it yet, but i think that the ipad App Genome can do this when you connect it to the Genos. It's a fantastic midi sequencer app where you can record scenes containing chord or melody loops and select those scenes in realtime whenever you want. You can sync Genome to the midi clock of the genos, so in theory it should work.

I will try it this week and will let you know if it works or not.
 

Offline ugawoga

Re: Chord sequencer..
« Reply #3 on: July 23, 2019, 12:52:45 PM »
Hi

Cubase can do chord sequencing.
But you may be talking about hardware.
I wonder if you can record a sequence in Cubase
and transfer to an ipad app ?
You could record a chord progression in Cubase and import back to the Genos sequencer
At least in Cubase you can see where the chords are  rather than messing  with step record on the Genos.
There are quite a few hardware units as well out there.
All the Best
john :)
« Last Edit: July 23, 2019, 01:01:21 PM by ugawoga »
Genos, I7 computer 32 gig ram, Focusrite 6i6, Cubase controller, Focal Alpha Monitors, Yamaha DXR8 Speakers
Cubase 10, Sonarworks, Izotope.  Sampletank, Arturia and Korg software.  Now IK Mixbox
 

Janus

  • Guest
Re: Chord sequencer..
« Reply #4 on: July 23, 2019, 01:47:36 PM »
The best chord sequencer is xgworks
Make a record in your keyboard save it as a midi file
Load it in xgworks
the chords are in the chordtrack
You have to make a cleanup bij set the chords on time
replace the wrong chords by good ones
You can even remove the arranger tracks
And take a other style
Expand the chord tracks to midi tracks
And save it s a midi file with chords
I use cakewalk sonar to enter the lyrics
The whole text in once by copy-paste
Enter the - sign be tween the words like (e-ve-ry)
Every word part is a melodie noot

Gr.Jan


« Last Edit: July 23, 2019, 03:37:45 PM by Janus »
 

Offline robinez

Re: Chord sequencer..
« Reply #5 on: July 23, 2019, 06:27:55 PM »
I've checked it with an ipad, it does indeed work in genome and korg gadget 2. However it's not usable, there is a noticeable midi delay so the latency is killing the experience. Lets see if i can find another solution
 

beykock

  • Guest
Re: Chord sequencer..
« Reply #6 on: July 23, 2019, 07:15:46 PM »
For all Yamaha keyboards ( including the Genos ) the free program PRODUCER ( made by Michael Bedesem and Peter Wierzba ) might be a very useful tool for chord input.
All built-in styles ( and other ) are usable.

Download this prog, install and try.

Good luck, Babette
« Last Edit: July 23, 2019, 07:23:20 PM by beykock »
 

Offline robinez

Re: Chord sequencer..
« Reply #7 on: July 28, 2019, 07:37:06 PM »
Did some more testing and i've got it working. I've used the wifi connection for this on the genos to the ipad. I used the app: Yamaha synth & dr Pad
Then i added the chords in it, played a 4  measure loop (you can select any length) and set the genos to chord detect on the channel i used in the app.
That was all, it works the same as when you use a midi file together with a style. It will follow the chord structure of the loop as long as you don't interfere with it and you have both hands free for your solo work on top of it.

it works in a similar way as i described years ago with the first version of the app connected to the kronos
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AS6-AuyfSno
 

Offline Bachus

Re: Chord sequencer..
« Reply #8 on: July 28, 2019, 09:01:38 PM »
Well at least yamaha recognises the feature Now.
Its part of the upcomming psr sx900
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Tyros5Mad

  • Guest
Re: Chord sequencer..
« Reply #9 on: July 28, 2019, 11:31:45 PM »
Hi guys,

You could try my software Midi Maker. It is free to use and does exactly what you want, which is create a backing track not only for the Genos but for most Yamaha arranger keyboards.

Check it out here: https://sites.google.com/view/midi-maker/midi-maker-2

There's also a complete online tutorial on how to use it All my songs are created by first compiling a backing track and then adding the vocals.

Regards, Richard
« Last Edit: July 28, 2019, 11:45:01 PM by RichardL »
 
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Offline hans1966

Re: Chord sequencer..
« Reply #10 on: July 29, 2019, 02:00:53 AM »
Hi Richard, thank you very much for sharing your software with us, I will try it on my PC, to edit some MIDI songs, which I have done on my new S975. Greetings. Hans
 

Tyros5Mad

  • Guest
Re: Chord sequencer..
« Reply #11 on: July 29, 2019, 03:02:54 AM »
Hi Richard, thank you very much for sharing your software with us, I will try it on my PC, to edit some MIDI songs, which I have done on my new S975. Greetings. Hans

@Hans

You cannot edit midi files directly with Midi Maker. It works very much like Band in a Box except it works with Yamaha styles in the various keyboards or even custom styles. It has no built-in styles

Like Band in a Box you have to enter chords and lyrics and and it will generate a midi file for your keyboard in the style you selected. Please go through the tutorial to understand the process better because there are some extra steps to record a standard midi file and make a backing track to include the lyrics.

Regards,
Richard
« Last Edit: July 29, 2019, 09:31:53 AM by RichardL »
 
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Offline pfeuh

Re: Chord sequencer..
« Reply #12 on: July 30, 2019, 08:33:20 AM »
Hello,

I have the project to do something like you want because... I want it too. But, as said the Joker: "So much projects and so less time!" :)

This is a kind of requirement book (a good one is an important part of a project) of what I would like to make:

microcontroller board connected to midi in.
midi clock server (we have to control the time to send chords at the right moment)
emulation of start/stop, different variations and breaks/style&sound selection
real time recording of left hand chords and playing them in loops.
managing files on sd cards.

It's like a big remote registration's manager with left hand recording/looping possibilities. Of course, the mecanism allows a big part of different arrangers to be compatible.

But as I said, no time at the moment, sorry.

Genos - Crumar Mojo - Memotron - Behringer model D - Korg MS20 - FR-1X - Reface CP
 

beykock

  • Guest
Re: Chord sequencer..
« Reply #13 on: July 30, 2019, 09:37:42 AM »
Hi Pfeuh :

If you could create an extra XGWorks patch that makes it possible to enter all modern styles, you do not have to invent the wheel, I guess. 🎈

Best wishes, Babette
« Last Edit: July 30, 2019, 09:39:09 AM by beykock »
 

Offline JanCK

Re: Chord sequencer..
« Reply #14 on: July 30, 2019, 02:45:05 PM »
Would Chord Tracker work for what Bachus is wanting to achieve in chord sequencing?

 

Offline ugawoga

Re: Chord sequencer..
« Reply #15 on: September 20, 2021, 09:08:45 PM »
Just wondering...

Does anyone use a chord sequencer with genos..
I could use the midi player, record a chord track, and then reroute it trough midi out, back to the midi in channel that has chord recognition set.

But in the end its easier to record the chord sequence in my midi looper on the ipad, and then play it..

Just wondering if anyone found a way to do this inside the genos. Recording a midi track and playing it and directly have the genos recognise chords on that track?  Would be nice to set this up for a certain song, i could use markers to have different chord sequences in a single performance.

Or do you guys in case where you want a looped backing, just record the whole accomp to the midi player, and then use a perf memmory to play this part over midi while having 2 hands free to lets sya play a 2handed piano or organ part.. or even a solo guitar with lots of pitch and modulation changes?

Sometimes you just need 2 hands to play the music, while not being able to play the chords live...

Hi
Here is my halfpennies worth.
Playing and recording is quite hard to do in one go. As for me, I can make a mistake and have to start all over like a groundhog day.
It is really weird that everything goes well until I press the record button, then tend to get small laps in concentration or hesitation which leads to "oh flaming not again"."Sausages in other words.
You can practice until you ar blue in the face, but the record button  changes sods law to code red!! lol.

I think that the chord looper is a gimmick really and Yamaha should concentrate on more important things. To me that is in the Pepper Piggie dumb down section.
Practice is the real key and if you record a whole song into the sequencer just in Piano you can get all chords and fills much tighter.
Now you have all the Style parts and fills done.
After that cancel out the piano and build the other parts of the track up playing them properly or you will lose the human touch, Intro , verse , chorus, end.
I now find that i record things much faster now and can concentrate on the sound nuances and the articulations for me are important.
So make registrations and change them as you go along ,but keeping it just piano and that saves your arms going everywhere all at once when it comes to vital parts.
Once you have recorded the song, your confidence gets a nice boost and after no time at all you can play the whole thing live without a worry.
I have to learn to not keep beating myself up and just get on with it!! I do get nervous when the red button starts flashing and i do not know why.

Well that is what i have learnt for myself.


All the Best
John
« Last Edit: September 20, 2021, 09:17:31 PM by ugawoga »
Genos, I7 computer 32 gig ram, Focusrite 6i6, Cubase controller, Focal Alpha Monitors, Yamaha DXR8 Speakers
Cubase 10, Sonarworks, Izotope.  Sampletank, Arturia and Korg software.  Now IK Mixbox
 

Re: Chord sequencer..
« Reply #16 on: September 20, 2021, 09:17:19 PM »
Agreed about that darn Record button, John >:(!!! I practice a song and get it perfect. I can even play it in my sleep after too much pizza, but as soon as I go to sequence it in Cubase with that nasty "red eyeball" staring me down, I completely fall apart. I can play a solo in front of 10,000 people and not have an issue. I swear the human brain was designed by a committee ;D.

Offline ugawoga

Re: Chord sequencer..
« Reply #17 on: September 20, 2021, 09:44:14 PM »
Hi Lee

We all think that other people never worry especially famous people.
What it is with that red button, i do not know. It is though it is watching your every move :P :-[ ;D Twilight Zone thang!!
I just recorded another song and mixed it and after a time, found out, i lost the dynamic of the song. Yes still learning.

It is getting better slowly, it was just that i had left the mix side for a while and had to get back into it.
Now i am remaking a song and finding the red button annoying at the moment. It is just that i get moments where nothing goes right, just in circles.
Now after making all registrations and play the song with just the piano it is much easier to get to the finish. All The Style and fills are in place now
After that i now can record separate tracks and get a better recording than the one take version.
In one take versions , you have to split your tracks in Cubase  and that is long winded.
Babatte was right about the recording and i have taken in what she has said. Get the tracks done on the Genos and then go over to Cubase with separate tracks showing.
You can just then split the Drum track up into separate tracks by using that feature in cubase under Midi
Hope all is going well with you Lee and keeping covid free!! "What a poet" Huh!! 8) ;D


All the Best
John :)
« Last Edit: September 20, 2021, 09:54:35 PM by ugawoga »
Genos, I7 computer 32 gig ram, Focusrite 6i6, Cubase controller, Focal Alpha Monitors, Yamaha DXR8 Speakers
Cubase 10, Sonarworks, Izotope.  Sampletank, Arturia and Korg software.  Now IK Mixbox
 

Offline Pigletboy

Re: Chord sequencer..
« Reply #18 on: September 20, 2021, 09:58:55 PM »
I used to play golf once upon a time. I could do great practice swings, but when it came to actually hitting the ball nothing went quite so smoothly. So one time when I was teeing off I suddenly thought, why not pretend the ball isn't there and just swing the club? And I hit the ball perfectly! But of course I couldn't seem to pull off the same trick again...that's vaguely relevant isn't it?!  ;D
PIgletboy
 

Re: Chord sequencer..
« Reply #19 on: September 21, 2021, 12:08:56 AM »
I used to play golf once upon a time. I could do great practice swings, but when it came to actually hitting the ball nothing went quite so smoothly. So one time when I was teeing off I suddenly thought, why not pretend the ball isn't there and just swing the club? And I hit the ball perfectly! But of course I couldn't seem to pull off the same trick again...that's vaguely relevant isn't it?!  ;D
PIgletboy
Absolutely! I just tried out your idea, Pigletboy but unfortunately I destroyed my Genos with a golf driver - a Big Bertha I think! Not really. Just thought I'd mix the two ideas together ;D!

John, if memory serves, Cubase has that special feature where it records all takes in background. I forget exactly how it works but it saves a bunch of takes before you actually record. Perhaps that is our crutch?! When you have a successful take, you can actually bring it to the foreground and use it as the recorded track.

Offline ugawoga

Re: Chord sequencer..
« Reply #20 on: September 22, 2021, 02:33:54 PM »
Hi Lee and  Piglet Boy

I can endorse the piano method as 100% for me.
Just play the whole song without any changes with  the lead piano.
Have your registrations done with any style changes
Just play through and get the chords and drum fills down with the style .
I finished doing my backing track last night after a couple of hours .
Yes, there were mistakes, not in the chord play, but hitting a chord maybe a fraction out and that means fraction.
If that happens as with a machine it leaves a lot of undesirable flack in each style track.
Now is the time to put the style track into Cubase and get the flack out of it. (sorry about the quickfire pun ;D)
I go to MIDI in Cubase and choose delete notes and make the note bar small as you do not want to erase sixteenth notes.
Press delete and then quantize in Cubase to what you want.
After that it is a case of making sure notes in the track are ok and you have to lenghten some tails or make up some gaps.
Once all tracks are clean, put back into the Genos.
All you need to do now is play the rest of the song with diferent parts in different tracks, then bob's yer Uncle ;) ;D ( All done)
After that back to cubase for a tidy and then mix and master which is not easy.
I have learnt now not to change anything in the mix , but just enhance after gain staging.
I now use Neutron and Ozone 9
I do find with certain sounds on the Genos there is unwanted noises which you can eq out.  Neutron is going well for me trying to mix and Ozone is great.
I do not like the Neutron or Ozone gain staging , I use the Klanghelm meter, only $20 low on cpu. Worth a buy.
 Put accross all tracks with Izotopes Relay and you can keep your faders at 0 Unity until fine adjustments needed.
Gradually getting there. A big must is also to use a reference track. Can save the headaches and it gets you in the ball park.
The times i have screwed it all up ,you would not believe " Oh the Pain"!! ;D 8) :P ::)


All the best
John
« Last Edit: September 22, 2021, 02:38:56 PM by ugawoga »
Genos, I7 computer 32 gig ram, Focusrite 6i6, Cubase controller, Focal Alpha Monitors, Yamaha DXR8 Speakers
Cubase 10, Sonarworks, Izotope.  Sampletank, Arturia and Korg software.  Now IK Mixbox
 

Offline mikf

Re: Chord sequencer..
« Reply #21 on: September 22, 2021, 04:01:06 PM »
Dont forget that it is relatively easy to fix chord mistakes on a recording using style creator punch in/out. You can even tie this into a pedal so you just play along and press the pedal on bits you want to fix and release when you don't. Here is a video on how to do this on a CVP but I expect it works the same on the Genos.
https://youtu.be/tSeqNKkzEgA
Mike

Offline ugawoga

Re: Chord sequencer..
« Reply #22 on: September 22, 2021, 04:49:03 PM »
Hi
The trouble with the Genos is that if you are milliseconds out it leaves flack on the track and i am talking about the style chords
It does not matter if you play live , but if you want a decent recording the flack has to go as it can make your song build up mud.
Punch in and punch out is good, but i will bet you it leaves flack on the style tracks.

All the best
John :)
Genos, I7 computer 32 gig ram, Focusrite 6i6, Cubase controller, Focal Alpha Monitors, Yamaha DXR8 Speakers
Cubase 10, Sonarworks, Izotope.  Sampletank, Arturia and Korg software.  Now IK Mixbox
 

Offline maartenb

Re: Chord sequencer..
« Reply #23 on: September 28, 2021, 01:26:14 PM »
record a chord track

I would LOOOVE a Chord Track in the Genos, but only if the played chord notes can be quantized and edited after playing. Or be input via a form of step recording. The chord track should be able to store style variations and fills as well.

Currently I use a sequencer on the PC to create and record a chord track. And another sequencer track to trigger fills and style variations by System Exclusive messages.


Maarten
 

Offline overover

Re: Chord sequencer..
« Reply #24 on: September 28, 2021, 03:32:27 PM »
I would LOOOVE a Chord Track in the Genos, but only if the played chord notes can be quantized and edited after playing. Or be input via a form of step recording. The chord track should be able to store style variations and fills as well.

Currently I use a sequencer on the PC to create and record a chord track. And another sequencer track to trigger fills and style variations by System Exclusive messages. ...

Hi Maarten,

You can also use the PC program "Producer" to create accompaniment arrangements by just entering chords. The program was originally written by Michael Bedesem and is now being developed by Peter Wierzba:
>>> http://www.wierzba.homepage.t-online.de/producer/producerfeatures.htm


Best regards,
Chris
Everyone always said: "This is not possible!" - Then someone came and ... just did it!
 

Offline Wim NL

Re: Chord sequencer..
« Reply #25 on: September 29, 2021, 11:59:04 AM »
I use the inernal chord sequencer in the Genos.
The big problem for me that I can't select the user styles.
I have hundreds of chord step record files made with the Tyros.
Now I can't update them with new Genos user styles.

Producer does not work for me, onlly half beat resoltion.
Max 2 chords in 1barr.

Now I will start with cubase chord track and sysex massages to try.
Best Regards,
Wim
 

Offline pjd

Re: Chord sequencer..
« Reply #26 on: September 30, 2021, 06:06:20 PM »
I would LOOOVE a Chord Track in the Genos, but only if the played chord notes can be quantized and edited after playing. Or be input via a form of step recording. The chord track should be able to store style variations and fills as well.

Currently I use a sequencer on the PC to create and record a chord track. And another sequencer track to trigger fills and style variations by System Exclusive messages.


Maarten

Hi Maarten! Good to see your posts (again).

I guess the current Genos Chord Step Edit doesn't get much love.  :D  I sometimes rough out a song using the Chord Step Edit feature. Before starting, I create a text file with the whole song laid out, including section changes. Each line is labelled with the measure number.

Chord Step Edit is like "micro-coding" a song. And, I don't mean that as a compliment!  ::) Yamaha could really improve this whole process -- a lot. Because of the low level detail and the linear format, it's easy to get lost when entering the song via Step Edit. That's why I create the whole song layout in a text file.

I've looked at Producer and much prefer to do everything in text. It would be neat to go from ChordPro (or one of the other common formats) and generate an arrangement. There are zillions of ChordPro files for tunes.

Yamaha could do some work here...

All the best -- pj
« Last Edit: September 30, 2021, 06:08:22 PM by pjd »