Author Topic: Another Transpose Question  (Read 3700 times)

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Offline kali291

Another Transpose Question
« on: July 17, 2019, 03:35:59 PM »
I have been playing around with my PSRE453, trying to teach myself all the wonderful things it can do. However, my music theory isn't the best, and I have come up against something I cannot work out.
As per the previous post from mla, I understand that the Transpose button alters the pitch of the whole keyboard by a certain number of semitones. I play along with midi files a lot, mainly loaded as user songs via USB. If I have a midi in the key of D major, for example, I can print the sheet music and play along with it and it sounds great. Now, if I transpose the sheet music to C major, and transpose the keyboard +2, I don't understand why when I play the song from the C major score, it does not sound the same as the D major midi. Have I misunderstood the theory, or is it something with the midi file?
Any help appreciated, thanks
Ron
 

Offline Normanfernandez

Re: Another Transpose Question
« Reply #1 on: July 17, 2019, 04:17:28 PM »
+2 Means Key of E from D,

You'll need to go - 2
 

Offline kali291

Re: Another Transpose Question
« Reply #2 on: July 17, 2019, 05:15:31 PM »
Now I'm really confused lol
I am playing in C from the sheet music, and the backing midi is in D . surely that's +2??
If, for example, the first note in the midi is A, and I have transposed the score to C (making the first note G), by transposing the keyboard plus 2, when I play a G it should sound an A ...or should it :-)
BTW I tried -2 and that sounds dreadful as well
 

Offline DerekA

Re: Another Transpose Question
« Reply #3 on: July 17, 2019, 05:18:55 PM »
So your sheet music is in C
And the MIDI file is in D

You transposed +2 so that when you played C, the keyboard sounded a D.

However, I suspect that transpose has also transposed the MIDI playback +2 so that when you press your C, it does indeed sound as D, but the MIDI file is now playing E.

:)

Try using a utility program (sorry don't know which) to transpose the MIDI file down to C. Then you can play back with the sheet music without transposing the keyboard. It does mean you will actually be playing in C though.
Genos
 

Offline Fred Smith

Re: Another Transpose Question
« Reply #4 on: July 17, 2019, 05:30:51 PM »
So your sheet music is in C
And the MIDI file is in D

You transposed +2 so that when you played C, the keyboard sounded a D.

However, I suspect that transpose has also transposed the MIDI playback +2 so that when you press your C, it does indeed sound as D, but the MIDI file is now playing E.


On most keyboards, you can assign the transpose function to apply to just the keyboard, just the midi, or both.

I don't know if this feature is on the E-series, but if it is, it will be in Utility under Transpose Assign.

Cheers,
Fred
Fred Smith,
Saskatoon, SK
Sun Lakes, AZ
Genos, Bose L1 compacts, Finale 2015
Check out my Registration Lessons
 

Offline kali291

Re: Another Transpose Question
« Reply #5 on: July 17, 2019, 05:44:30 PM »
@DerekA & Fred Smith. I suspect you are correct and that the transpose function affects both the keyboard itself and the midi. I can find no 'Transpose Assign' function on the keyboard.  That's a shame because the really difficult pieces to learn, in keys with 5 or 6 sharps or flats, sound much better in the original key. Guess I either persevere and learn them, or save up for a better keyboard !
Thanks again all.
 

Offline Normanfernandez

Re: Another Transpose Question
« Reply #6 on: July 17, 2019, 06:20:17 PM »
I completely forgot that the transpose button would affect the midi and system too.

Yes you'll need to Transpose only Midi.
 

Offline panos

Re: Another Transpose Question
« Reply #7 on: July 17, 2019, 06:41:25 PM »
You can transpose the midi file with mixmaster on your pc and then load the new midi to your psr and play
http://psrtutorial.com/MB/mixMaster.html

on mixmaster:
load the midi
click on "Note view" (it has an 8th note mark)
then at the new window search the new bar for "Process/Edit"(is at the top centre)
then choose "transpose file" (last option)
give the number of the semitones e.g 2
press ok
save the file.
load the file back to the psr
« Last Edit: July 17, 2019, 06:42:55 PM by panos »
 

Offline Janus

Re: Another Transpose Question
« Reply #8 on: July 17, 2019, 07:01:54 PM »
Beware of the drumtracks
Channel 10 is locked When you transpose a midifile
There are midifiles with 2 drumtracks
Yamaha got track 9 and 10 for the drumtracks
But there are midifiles with 10 and 11 as drumtracks
When you transpose a midi file
those extra drumtracks are not locked
That gives the wrong drum instruments on those tracks

Gr.Jan
« Last Edit: July 17, 2019, 07:11:08 PM by Janus »
 

Offline kali291

Re: Another Transpose Question
« Reply #9 on: July 17, 2019, 07:33:18 PM »
Can anyone recommend a book on midi and editing midi I would be looking for something in the middle line between total novice and professional studio engineer. It wouldn’t be a problem if it was specific to one software title
Thanks
 

Offline SeaGtGruff

Re: Another Transpose Question
« Reply #10 on: July 17, 2019, 07:47:08 PM »
Regarding the drum tracks, they are usually-- almost always-- on channels 9 and 10, but that isn't necessarily the case. Any channel can have a drum kit assigned to it, and any type of voice-- melodic or kit-- can be assigned to channels 9 and 10. The best thing to do is to check the Bank Select messages for the voices on all 16 channels to determine whether a given channel is using a melodic voice (which can be transposed) or a kit voice (which should not be transposed).
Michael Rideout
Current keyboards: Yamaha YPT-400, PSR-E433, PSR-E443, PSR-EW400, MX49 BK
Current controllers: M-Audio Axiom 61-II
Previous keyboards: Farfisa Matador 611; Casio CTK-710
 

Offline panos

Re: Another Transpose Question
« Reply #11 on: July 17, 2019, 08:46:54 PM »
Mixamaster gave me a message that it won't transpose the drum tracks and it didn't.
I used a midi to check whether mixmaster can transpose a midi.

By the way why some times people use in such extreme degree the pitch wheel when they create midi's? It's annoying.

Offline DerekA

Re: Another Transpose Question
« Reply #12 on: July 17, 2019, 11:11:33 PM »
@DerekA & Fred Smith. I suspect you are correct and that the transpose function affects both the keyboard itself and the midi. I can find no 'Transpose Assign' function on the keyboard.  That's a shame because the really difficult pieces to learn, in keys with 5 or 6 sharps or flats, sound much better in the original key. Guess I either persevere and learn them, or save up for a better keyboard !
Thanks again all.

So ..

use mixmaster to transpose the MIDI file -2 down to C.
Load it into the keyboard.
Transpose the keyboard +2
Play along with the MIDI file using the sheet music written in C.
This time, both the MIDI file and your playing will sound in D.
Genos
 
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Offline SeaGtGruff

Re: Another Transpose Question
« Reply #13 on: July 18, 2019, 03:36:58 AM »
By the way why some times people use in such extreme degree the pitch wheel when they create midi's? It's annoying.

That's a topic for another thread, but apparently some keyboardists feel that pitch bend needs to be set to a range of +/- 12 semitones, especially for certain types of music. There's a whole discussion on yamahamusicians.com about Yamaha's implementation of Pitch Bend on their keyboards and synths, which produces noticeable stepping when the Pitch Bend Range is set to +/- 12 semitones due to the fact that on many of their instruments Yamaha uses the Pitch Bend MSB but not the Pitch Bend LSB, which means the smallest possible change is 128 times as large as it would be were the LSB used.

Unless by "in such extreme degree" you mean how frequently Pitch Bend is used, not how large the Pitch Bend Range is set. And if that is what you meant, Pitch Bend can be useful for creating a portamento between two notes on instruments that don't implement portamento, as well as tuning the individual notes of the scale on instruments that don't implement custom scale tunings. Of course, it also helps make guitar voices sound more realistic. And trombone voices. And violins or other string instruments that have fretless necks. :)
« Last Edit: July 18, 2019, 03:39:22 AM by SeaGtGruff »
Michael Rideout
Current keyboards: Yamaha YPT-400, PSR-E433, PSR-E443, PSR-EW400, MX49 BK
Current controllers: M-Audio Axiom 61-II
Previous keyboards: Farfisa Matador 611; Casio CTK-710
 

Offline kali291

Re: Another Transpose Question
« Reply #14 on: July 18, 2019, 08:04:11 AM »
@ DerekA Why didn’t I think of that?😀
Thank you very much