Topic: Expectations

[Mike2]

I read all these opinions and hopes about the 1.40 upgrade, and say to myself, wow didn't realize the Genos
was that limited and lacking so much. I own the Genos, and yes nothing is perfect, but after reading all these
wishes and yes, complaints, don't know how anyone can enjoy what they already have. But, we live in a world of
expecting perfection, so for those in that camp, I feel sorry for you. Even if Yamaha would upgrade to your Genos
to your desire, you would after a few day still feel empty. Like something is always lacking. My 2 cents worth is, enjoy this
awesome keyboard, and relax.
 

[EileenL]

I certainly enjoy mine and I am happy with the update. A lot more assignable things and the sliders work much better now more positive. 

[Eric, B]

Same here.
The Genos is an awesome KB with lots of features.
To many for the average player.
Some even have returned their Genos, because they found it too complicated. ...
Technology always moves forward and more and more is being added to KB's nowadays ...
At this point I am enjoying the **** out of it and look at what I can do with it rather than what I can't
Regards
Eric

[EileenL]

Hi Eric,
  I think if Genos was perfect (of which most things are not) people would still find something to down it. I say if you don't like it then get something else and let the rest of us enjoy what we have.
  No one likes reading all this moaning and groaning. You know that as soon as something new comes out it is going to be jumped on.
  I still enjoy my Genos a lot and it dose everything that I want to enjoy playing it live.

[Mike2]

Very well said Eileen.

[valimaties]

Hi Eric,
  I think if Genos was perfect (of which most things are not) people would still find something to down it. I say if you don't like it then get something else and let the rest of us enjoy what we have.
  No one likes reading all this moaning and groaning. You know that as soon as something new comes out it is going to be jumped on.
  I still enjoy my Genos a lot and it dose everything that I want to enjoy playing it live.

Hi Eileen, and other who enjoy this keyboard.

I did not say I not enjoy it, or I don't make gigs with it, as it is! I do, and I have a lot of gigs, believe me.
But, in the world there are people who are gratefully with what God give them (I am too), and  those people who, above the others, wants more in life! I don't want to stop here! I don't want to think "that's it"! WHY?! Some of us are advanced users/players of this keyboard and other ones, pianos, even other instruments... Why we have only to gratefully only with this if we now there is more potential, but in the fact, the things which bothers us are not solved in a year and a half from the launch of it?!
I (and others), we know you are pleased, you enjoy it. Very well ! Enjoy it, but let us speak about problems there are in this keyboard, that Yamaha see and solve those problems! I told it in the past and I tell now again: if someone's problem exists and he/she encountered it, that does not mean this has to be solved with a workaround thing! It must be working as it has to be!
I, personally, don't care why some of you does not recognize that this (wonderful, yes) keyboard has glitches and bugs. Maybe, you, how you play, and how do you highly use this keyboard, you don't encounter problems. It's very ok, sing and play a lot as you play.
We, others, which encounter problems, we want to tell about them, to be known, and to complain, because we expect on a TOTL arranger to work at least without operating problems, all controls to work fine. I expect for Style Reset function till 1.20 version has come. I tough it will be in 1.20. After that I tough it will be in 1.30, now in 1.40. They don't care about it, because of you, those which are negate the utility of new functions. You post every time "it's not needed" that, and that, and that! Why those functions are bad in the keyboard? What bothers you so much the presence of some new functions?! Why don't you align with other users which care about Yamaha keyboards and wants more?
I think it is not unity from you, guys! Yes, I don't use midi files, but I did not say never that is a bul...s.. the presence of that player in keyboards. Let it be, if someone use it, let it be there, I don't care who use it and who not!

Please, be more kind with the people who want more things, or want some functions to be repaired (like registration bank). If someone told about a problem, before saying it is not a problem, test on your keyboard the given information, and if it is happening to you too, that means it is a problem. Yes, maybe not for you, but for other might be! So, I encourage the unity, not for "let it be as it is" !

Best regards, and I hope some day all of you will think as it might to be, for others too, not only for you!
Vali

[ugawoga]

Hi
I have changed my approach to things now
Instead of bull at a gate, i now take one step at a time and it is working.
The Genos is a learn curve and the more you delve the better things get.
Cubase was a headache ,but once you get over connections things start to look rosey.
It is just a matter of slow aquired knowledge for me.
I find writing things down in a notebook helps to jog the memory if something gets forgotten.
I am home studio based , but if you are gigging, preparation is the key so your set goes swimmingly.
Personally i do not want to gig as i had done all of that in my Disco Days and completed my 15 minutes.

All the best
John

[metcam]

Hi Eileen, and other who enjoy this keyboard.

I did not say I not enjoy it, or I don't make gigs with it, as it is! I do, and I have a lot of gigs, believe me.
But, in the world there are people who are gratefully with what God give them (I am too), and  those people who, above the others, wants more in life! I don't want to stop here! I don't want to think "that's it"! WHY?! Some of us are advanced users/players of this keyboard and other ones, pianos, even other instruments... Why we have only to gratefully only with this if we now there is more potential, but in the fact, the things which bothers us are not solved in a year and a half from the launch of it?!
I (and others), we know you are pleased, you enjoy it. Very well ! Enjoy it, but let us speak about problems there are in this keyboard, that Yamaha see and solve those problems! I told it in the past and I tell now again: if someone's problem exists and he/she encountered it, that does not mean this has to be solved with a workaround thing! It must be working as it has to be!
I, personally, don't care why some of you does not recognize that this (wonderful, yes) keyboard has glitches and bugs. Maybe, you, how you play, and how do you highly use this keyboard, you don't encounter problems. It's very ok, sing and play a lot as you play.
We, others, which encounter problems, we want to tell about them, to be known, and to complain, because we expect on a TOTL arranger to work at least without operating problems, all controls to work fine. I expect for Style Reset function till 1.20 version has come. I tough it will be in 1.20. After that I tough it will be in 1.30, now in 1.40. They don't care about it, because of you, those which are negate the utility of new functions. You post every time "it's not needed" that, and that, and that! Why those functions are bad in the keyboard? What bothers you so much the presence of some new functions?! Why don't you align with other users which care about Yamaha keyboards and wants more?
I think it is not unity from you, guys! Yes, I don't use midi files, but I did not say never that is a bul...s.. the presence of that player in keyboards. Let it be, if someone use it, let it be there, I don't care who use it and who not!

Please, be more kind with the people who want more things, or want some functions to be repaired (like registration bank). If someone told about a problem, before saying it is not a problem, test on your keyboard the given information, and if it is happening to you too, that means it is a problem. Yes, maybe not for you, but for other might be! So, I encourage the unity, not for "let it be as it is" !

Best regards, and I hope some day all of you will think as it might to be, for others too, not only for you!
Vali

Very well said Vali,very well.... I agre 100% .

[metcam]

  No one likes reading all this moaning and groaning. 
 

With all my respect to you EileenL  "moaning and groaning" is only way Yamaha will do something. And YES we learned from past that Yamaha listen a lot of "moaning and groaning" and fixed ,improved ,added and so more.

Also a lot of "moaning and groaning" ideas Yamaha got for FREE and added in new generations keyboards.

And yes I am very hapy with my Genos and will be more if they add some more stuf..


Best regards.

[BenoitM]

I really hoped that the 1.40 version would fix the multiple DSP Parameters registration issue, but unfortunately it's not the case :/

It would open a whole new world of possibilities for new sounds, but stacking multiples tweaked DSPs on a voice.

It seems that most people are only using preset voices, the most adventurous are changing some parameters in the 'Voice Edit' menu, but that's it...

With more than 1 year of delay between 1.30 and 1.40, I must say that I'm really disappointed with such a small update... (come on ! the 'External Display' should have worked since v1.00, other thing are nice but really minor features...)

The Montage/MODX updates where much more interesting (new voices, new dsp effects, new features, and so on...)... I really hope that Yamaha will do the same for the Genos, it deserve it ! (and has the potential for it !).

I don't know if the rumors for a next update (1.5 ?) are true, but I really hope they will take into account our feedback !

[Pianoman]

Hi Eric,
  I think if Genos was perfect (of which most things are not) people would still find something to down it. I say if you don't like it then get something else and let the rest of us enjoy what we have.
  No one likes reading all this moaning and groaning. You know that as soon as something new comes out it is going to be jumped on.
  I still enjoy my Genos a lot and it dose everything that I want to enjoy playing it live.

If people did not " moan and groan" there probably would have been no updates at all.
Especially this one.

And the constant mantra of " if you don't like it get something else " is an insult to people
who have spent their hard earned money buying this expensive keyboard.

Civility is a sign of strength, not weakness.

Best Regards.
Abby.

[Fred Smith]

Abby,

Moaning and groaning is fine if it's constructive. The problem is that most moaning on this forum is not. And in all the years I've been on this forum, it's unique to the Genos. I never saw it with the Tyros or PSR. I've also never seen before where posters were disparaged for simply saying they were happy with their instrument.

An example of a constructive criticism is Wim's post on "Still no acces to user styles in Song Record>Multi Record>Step Edit>Target". That problem I can understand, is well documented, and can be replicated. This is something that's easy to get behind and push Yamaha to implement.

An example of unconstructive criticism is complaining that after upgrading to OS 1.4, you can't go back to 1.3. You say you want improvements, but then you also want to go backwards? How in the world is any company supposed to handle that? If you insist you want to stay in the past, then Yamaha's response is easy: Fine, we'll save all our time and effort and leave things alone. Then we won't get this complaint.

Another is example is Kaarlo's post on what of your wishlist was implemented in 1.4. There weren't more than two replies before the moaners took over and destroyed the thread. How does that help?

You ask for a "Style Reset" feature. But what is that? Is it well documented? Can it be replicated? Will it impact any other feature of the keyboard?

We all want to see improvements, especially when they are free. As we've seen in every case, from 1.0 to 1.1 to 1.2 to 1.3 to 1.4, Yamaha have fixed bugs and introduced new features. But what response do they get? More than once, it's "totally useless". With this response, why would anyone bother to continue?

Moaners are their own worst enemy. If someone can never be pleased, then there's no use trying to.

To get improvements to any piece of software, you need to ensure it's: specific, understandable, not a user error, is able to be replicated and doesn't negatively affect other users.

And thanking Yamaha for the improvements they've made in the past wouldn't hurt either.

Cheers,
Fred

[Antonio]

Hi Eileen, and other who enjoy this keyboard.

I did not say I not enjoy it, or I don't make gigs with it, as it is! I do, and I have a lot of gigs, believe me.
But, in the world there are people who are gratefully with what God give them (I am too), and  those people who, above the others, wants more in life! I don't want to stop here! I don't want to think "that's it"! WHY?! Some of us are advanced users/players of this keyboard and other ones, pianos, even other instruments... Why we have only to gratefully only with this if we now there is more potential, but in the fact, the things which bothers us are not solved in a year and a half from the launch of it?!
I (and others), we know you are pleased, you enjoy it. Very well ! Enjoy it, but let us speak about problems there are in this keyboard, that Yamaha see and solve those problems! I told it in the past and I tell now again: if someone's problem exists and he/she encountered it, that does not mean this has to be solved with a workaround thing! It must be working as it has to be!
I, personally, don't care why some of you does not recognize that this (wonderful, yes) keyboard has glitches and bugs. Maybe, you, how you play, and how do you highly use this keyboard, you don't encounter problems. It's very ok, sing and play a lot as you play.
We, others, which encounter problems, we want to tell about them, to be known, and to complain, because we expect on a TOTL arranger to work at least without operating problems, all controls to work fine. I expect for Style Reset function till 1.20 version has come. I tough it will be in 1.20. After that I tough it will be in 1.30, now in 1.40. They don't care about it, because of you, those which are negate the utility of new functions. You post every time "it's not needed" that, and that, and that! Why those functions are bad in the keyboard? What bothers you so much the presence of some new functions?! Why don't you align with other users which care about Yamaha keyboards and wants more?
I think it is not unity from you, guys! Yes, I don't use midi files, but I did not say never that is a bul...s.. the presence of that player in keyboards. Let it be, if someone use it, let it be there, I don't care who use it and who not!

Please, be more kind with the people who want more things, or want some functions to be repaired (like registration bank). If someone told about a problem, before saying it is not a problem, test on your keyboard the given information, and if it is happening to you too, that means it is a problem. Yes, maybe not for you, but for other might be! So, I encourage the unity, not for "let it be as it is" !

Best regards, and I hope some day all of you will think as it might to be, for others too, not only for you!
Vali

I agree Vali

[beykock]

Hi,

Please accept not all Genos customers are pleased with the 1.40 update.

They are clearly explaining here why they are disappointed and what has to be improved to get the best out of their Genos.
They are expecting all these problems will be solved asap.

Babette

[Pianoman]

Abby,

Moaners are their own worst enemy. If someone can never be pleased, then there's no use trying to.

To get improvements to any piece of software, you need to ensure it's: specific, understandable, not a user error, is able to be replicated and doesn't negatively affect other users.

And thanking Yamaha for the improvements they've made in the past wouldn't hurt either.

Cheers,
Fred

Hello Fred.

Why should anybody thank Yamaha for something that they should have done from
the get go. And it's not like they've given the keyboard away for free.

This reminds me of the tale of Oliver Twist.

"Oliver Twist, trembling, bowl in hand, begged Mr. Bumble for gruel with his famous request:
"Please, sir, I want some more".

A great uproar ensued, and the board of well-fed gentlemen who administered the workhouse
got terribly upset."

In my response above I was irked by people always saying that they're being prevented
from enjoying their Genos, and if someone is not satisfied with it they should go get
something else.

Some people had to save for months and spend their last cent buying this keyboard.

Nobody here is stopping anyone from enjoying their Genos, but those who feel that they
have a right to ask for more should also be allowed to do so.

Progress has never been achieved by those who accept what they've been given and
keep quiet.
Rather it's been achieved by those who said "this is not enough and more could be done."

We would still be having gas lighting in the streets and using pigeons to send messages
if someone had not said this is not enough and more can be done.

I perform every night and would love to have the entire audience to like my performances.
Some don't, and if I were to tell them " if you don't like it go somewhere else "
then I would be the one going somewhere else, looking for a new job.

Best Regards.
Abby.

[DerekA]

Fred,

Yamaha Marketing are their own worst enemy. This update was trailed with a flashy video and impressive claims. I think it's fair to say that it actually contains fairly minor changes. Some people feel they have been misled about what to expect. (Others saw the marketing puff for what it was).

As for going back a version - imagine if you're a gigging musician with a full diary, you apply the update, and there is some serious issue that renders a lot of your registrations unseable. You would want to revert back to the previous version ASAP. I am personally surprised that this update can't be undone.

Edit : Sorry Fred, I don't buy your theory about the registration file structure. Otherwise, registrations created on a V1.4 Genos could not be shared with people who have not updated. I would have expected that restriction to be explicitly called out in the release notes if it were true.

[Kaarlo von Freymann]

Dear Vali,

I have been following you on this site because your posts are so good and - childhood is  important - some 80 years ago the Rumanian ambassador to Finland used to take us kids  for a ride in his car  Only diplomats had cars then.
Please excuse me for using your excellent text and inserting some comments instead of using the quote system. This post might get too long. I have boldened the passages I feel are the most important ones.

.... in fact, the things that bother us have not been  solved in a year and a half from the launch....
Exactly !

....Enjoy your Genos, but let us speak about the problems there are in this keyboard... so that Yamaha sees and solves them... existing problems should be solved and not by a "work-around" ...

Like you I am not happy being told by those associated with the manufacturer "No problem, there is a work-around." That is ok only if  the problem is taken care of in the next update, which in most cases has not been the case.

.... don't undertandd why some do not recognize that this (wonderful, yes) keyboard has glitches and bugs.

You put it kindly, we need to understand who those "some" are, then it is easy to understand. Everybody declared I was doing something wrong. (Except Lee !) Nobody told me, "there might be a defect in your internal memory, try copying  ALL  520  styles and redo the 50 memorybanks on a stick.  That took me days,  turned out to be "the work around."  So now I know there is a defect in the internal memory of my Genos that even the service reset was unable to find. Genos like everything else can have hard to detect defective components.

.....Maybe ... the way you play ... and use this keyboard, you don't encounter problems...we, others, who encounter problems want to talk about them ...because we expect a  top of the line arranger to work ... without operating problems...I waited for the Style Reset function till  v.1.20 came out. I though it will be in 1.20. After that I thought it will be in 1.30, now in 1.40....They don't care about it, because  of those like you who  negate the utility of new functions...You post every time "it's not needed"....What bothers you so much about some new functions?!...Why can't you agree with other users ...who want more? ... I don't use midi files, but I have  never said that the presence of the midi player in keyboards is bul...s.. ... If someone uses it, let it be there...Please, be more kind to those who want more things, or want some functions to be repaired (like registration bank). If someone brings up a problem, before saying it is not a problem, test the given information on your keyboard , and if it is happening to you too, that means it is a problem.....maybe not for you, but for others ...So, I encourage us not say "let it be as it is" ! .... I hope some day all of us will adopt a positive attitude towards those who differ in view.

Thanks Vali

Cheers

Kaarlo

[Fred Smith]

Please accept not all Genos customers are pleased with the 1.40 update.

They are clearly explaining here why they are disappointed and what has to be improved to get the best out of their Genos.
They are expecting all these problems will be solved asap.

That’s my problem, Babette. They’re not clearly explained. Wim's problem I can understand. The others I can’t.

Cheers,
Fred

[EileenL]

If you have defective components in your keyboard internal memory Kaarlo why has your dealer not had this put right for you and had it replaced. I certainly would insist on this being done if it were my keyboard.

[valimaties]

Hi Kaarlo.
Thank you very much for very well translation (you understood perfectly what I wrote in my defective english )! I must say I am not a good english speaker, so in most of cases I use google translation, which  most of time translate word-by-word and not as expressions

But if you understood me, I think a day-by-day english speaker could understand me!

In fact, I want to apologize to those who not understand my post very well. I graduate a long time ago, and even english language was the primary foreign language in collage, I forgot a lot of things. God help me that programming is not about grammar or to know language perfect

Regards,
Vali

[valimaties]

That’s my problem, Babette. They’re not clearly explained. Wim's problem I can understand. The others I can’t.

Cheers,
Fred

Hi Fred.

Did you have at least 5 minutes a Korg arranger on your hands?
If yes, did you press the "Tap Tempo / Reset" button?

It's simply, every time you will press, in any moment, it will reset the style to the first beat of the first measure. Like you have the style in stand by (when you did not start the melody, and it's time to play) and press the keys. The Sync Stop function is useless in some conditions, even if we activate the options for sync stop window from global setting. This window depends very much for the style you play, and the speed of the style

I think I was very clearly when I spoke about this function to be implemented in this keyboard as an assignable function. It is very simple, is not complicated and I don't think implies anything that may blow up the keyboard's OS! Think about that could be a marker in your midi file that tells system to go to certain measure This marker will tell style engine "go to 01:01:0000" And every time you will press, in any moment it will say that ! What is so difficult?

Regards,
Vali

[Kaarlo von Freymann]

It's simply, every time you will press, in any moment, it will reset the style to the first beat of the first measure.
Regards,
Vali

Dear Vali,
I happen to still have my YAMAHA 5700 the top model decades ago, in some aspects never surpased. It has exactly the reset function to beat one you describe (of an up to 8 bars long style !)  For me it was easy to understand what you meant.

Cheers
Kaarlo

Ps. Thanks for you kind words, please believe memy goal was not to correct your English, just shorten your text to be able to writen into it. Leaving out many sentences I felt necessitated  some slight re-wording in order to preserve the original meaning  I am sure everyone reading your original post understood perfectly what you meant, though it may have been hard to swallow 

[elad770]

Abby,

Moaning and groaning is fine if it's constructive. The problem is that most moaning on this forum is not.

I completely Disagree with you.

I read the long threads as well and most people simply have different expectations. This doesn't mean they are not enjoying their keyboard. It doesn't mean they seat all day and do nothing but thinking how Yamaha is not listening to them. It doesn't mean that they are moaning and groaning. Those who don't like the difference of views and opinions can easily skip threads or skip the forum

I think most people are actually entertained from the difference of views. From one person joy is one person's disappointment. This forum is diverse and should include everyone

I never came across one comment that was out of place and improper. I don't see people desires and wishes as complaints. This attitude of never settle and always strive for more is what makes technologies revolutionary and break boundaries, so these type of views i not only welcome i think they are a MUST!

Stop shutting down people just because you don't like their complaintive tone. I truly feel that NO ONE really takes a keyboard firmware update that seriously
People probably have jobs and families and other important things, But this amazing forum is unique because it provides and an outlet for different people with different personalities
Some people just like to log in and look for new Styles - So be it
Some people just like to log in click on Eileen new posts and read that
Some people like to catch on new technology
And some people like to juice it up and spice it up a little bit with sharing opposite views - What is wrong with that?

Comments are respectful and don't include improper words - ALL WELCOME!

I opened a thread called "Save my behind" for G-d Sake. If people find not interesting they can SKIP IT!

People might sound complaintive only because Yamaha is doing such a great job: Think about it!
Yamaha is breaking the barriers of what's possible from an arranger, They stimulate our minds and imagination force us to say:- what else could be possible! I want more!
This is very healthy and i want to encourage everyone to feel free to share whatever feelings you have


 

[elad770]

In fact, I want to apologize to those who not understand my post very well. I graduate a long time ago, and even english language was the primary foreign language in collage, I forgot a lot of things. God help me that programming is not about grammar or to know language perfect

Regards,
Vali

Those who want to understand you - WILL !
Those who don't like you passion and desire to make things better - Will not care what language you use

You don't need to apologize how you come across! You did nothing wrong

Be yourself!

[beykock]

Hi Elad 770 :

In a Forum like this with more than 5000 members, it is obvious certain rules are to be followed and respected.

Some people will agree with your words others will disagree.
I think that is part of the game.
Do you agree ?

BUT :
In French they say : " C' est le ton qui fait la musique ".

Take care, Babette

[elad770]

Hi Elad 770 :

In a Forum like this with more than 5000 members, it is obvious certain rules are to be followed and respected.

Some people will agree with your words others will disagree.
I think that is part of the game.
Do you agree ?

BUT :
In French they say : " C' est le ton qui fait la musique ".

Take care, Babette

Yes! That is exactly what i'm saying. You don't have to agree with my opinion in order to show minimal respect
The fact that i say something you don't agree with doesn't or should not make me annoying, complaintive or all the adjectives that people give here.
I would say that the vast majority of the members take the difference of opinions very well and those who don't like a certain comment or a post simply don't read it and don't comment on it
simple as that. But some people have the need to shut down the spectrum of opinions and only like "certain" tone. They want "constructive" tone. They want a tone that has "meaning" and "content"

I'm saying: not everyone must dance to this. I personally try to be like that but if someone likes to say: I don't like my Genos (without explaining why) he can definitely do so!
Some people will respond to him by saying - You are complaintive and some will wisely respond by saying: Would you like to share with us specifically what you don't like about it?

It's all about our ability to accept diversity and others. But again 99% of cases people are not even complaining. they only passionate about certain things and sometimes together with language limitations, it might come across combative, but 5000 members? Trust me this is how the game should be played. Simply respect everyone and we should stop commenting on the tone and focus on the content. If a reader feels that a comment or a thread has no proper message or content- Simply ignore it!

[Kaarlo von Freymann]

If you have defective components in your keyboard internal memory Kaarlo why has your dealer not had this put right for you and had it replaced. I certainly would insist on this being done if it were my keyboard.

Dear Eileen,

Thanks, very well said.  My answer is so long and so incredible  I deem  it is better to send you a private message. I just want to say here, the YAMAHA importer has treated me with extreme courtesy and been willing to do anything for me.

Cheers

Kaarlo

[Fred Smith]

Did you have at least 5 minutes a Korg arranger on your hands?
If yes, did you press the "Tap Tempo / Reset" button?

It's simply, every time you will press, in any moment, it will reset the style to the first beat of the first measure. Like you have the style in stand by (when you did not start the melody, and it's time to play) and press the keys. The Sync Stop function is useless in some conditions, even if we activate the options for sync stop window from global setting. This window depends very much for the style you play, and the speed of the style

No, I have not spent any time with a Korg arranger, and don't intend to. I'm happy with Yamaha.

If I understand your "Style reset" function, you can do the same thing by pressing the Stop button, followed by the SyncStart button. This resets the style, and something I do all the time.

So what you are asking for is the ability to assign the function to a button so you have to press only one button, rather than two. Is this correct?

If so, I can see some value in the feature, and it shouldn't be that hard to implement, but I'm not sure I'd ever use it, as I'm so used to the Stop/Start press, and any assignable button would be a lot further away.

Regardless, thanks for the clarification.

Cheers,
Fred

[Kaarlo von Freymann]

Dear Fred,

Thanks .You put it very much to the point and explained reasons for your opinion unlike those who just say "if you do not like it, sell it" which is neither helpful nor very nice.

Your waydoes help.

Cheers

Kaarlo

PS
Beeing a Finn I have difficulties spelling English. I always use the Spell Check. But often later there still are mistakes and much worse even words may disappear which alters the meaning.  Is that inherent in site systems ? I run into that problem also on other sites like Quora. My on purpose mistake writing "beeing"  was not tetected.

[valimaties]

1. No, I have not spent any time with a Korg arranger, and don't intend to. I'm happy with Yamaha.

2. So what you are asking for is the ability to assign the function to a button so you have to press only one button, rather than two. Is this correct?

If so, I can see some value in the feature, and it shouldn't be that hard to implement, but I'm not sure I'd ever use it, as I'm so used to the Stop/Start press, and any assignable button would be a lot further away.

Regardless, thanks for the clarification.

Cheers,
Fred

1. In life you must try anything. I like my Genos too, even if I miss some functions which helped me in my work on other brands. Trying a Korg or Roland arranger could change anyone's vision about arranger. Comparing with other brands, can be a plus for Genos, because you can see what Genos missing that could make your job easier

2. Synchro Stop function was not made for resetting process of style. It was build to be able to play the first "n" beats repeatedly as many times as you want. Between releasing the keys and pressing the key you have a lag, which is hearing and is annoying. If the reset function should have been implemented, that pause/lag would not have been heard...

Please, don't be stubborn and try other brands too.. It will open your vision about which things could be better or not... Some things could be better made on other brands, some things not! But you are able to choose when you know more than one, when you know only one, then it's only your single way of vision...

In my country it is an expression: "You see like horses"! That means you cannot see left or right, you see only in front of you, which is a bad thing!

Regards,
Vali

[beykock]

If one is very happy and very pleased with his/her ( arranger ) brand - for so many years - why should he/she shoot his/her winning horse, Vali ?
I agree it is always interesting to gather information of the competition.
It might confirm his/her choice has always been the best.😁

All competitive information can be found/heard/seen on the internet and Youtube, IMO.

Babette

[Fred Smith]

[quote author=valimaties link=topic=50564.msg395953#msg395953 date=1562244326

2. Synchro Stop function was not made for resetting process of style. It was build to be able to play the first "n" beats repeatedly as many times as you want. Between releasing the keys and pressing the key you have a lag, which is hearing and is annoying. If the reset function should have been implemented, that pause/lag would not have been heard...

[/quote]

I never said anything about using SyncStop. I agree it's annoying, although it has its uses in limited circumstances.

To reset the style,  I use Stop followed by SyncStart.

Cheers,
Fred

[valimaties]

I never said anything about using SyncStop. I agree it's annoying, although it has its uses in limited circumstances.

To reset the style,  I use Stop followed by SyncStart.

Cheers,
Fred

I want to see you doing this in a millisecond 

Best regards,
Vali

[Lee Batchelor]

To reset the style, I use Stop followed by SyncStart.

Fred has found a workaround and mastered it. Hat's off to Fred for that. I wasn't aware you could do that. Thanks for that, Fred!

On the other hand, Kaarlo mentioned that the Style Reset function existed on his ancient 5700. I've owned a lot of PSR and Tyros keyboards and have never had that function available on any of them. To be fair, I only need it for a handful of songs. I tend to be less annoyed about "things I wish they had included on this keyboard" versus "the really convenient things the older keyboards had that are now removed." This modern-day trend of removing things that worked so well on older models is very disturbing. Of course, there are some features that should be discontinued because they are no longer used by anyone and have been replaced with far better technology. But keep the things that worked well. Just don't toss them aside so you claim to management that you created something "new and improved."

The Genos is a splendid piece of work, but if the Style Reset button was present on a dinosaur and worked well, why was it removed in the first place?

[Fred Smith]

I want to see you doing this in a millisecond 

Best regards,
Vali

Sigh.

Next time, just let us know you’re not interested in solutions, that you only want to complain.

It will save me a lot of time.

Cheers,
Fred

[Lee Batchelor]

Fred, I tried your Stop button solution on Pretty Woman and Song Sung Blue. Both tunes have a 6/4 (or 4/4 + 2/4) bar at the end of a phrase. It took me about one minute to master the technique for re-triggering the 4/4 count for the next phrase. I turn the Stop button on and off on an as-needed basis. It works! Probably less streamlined than a dedicated button but with a little practice...

Thanks again .

[valimaties]

Sigh.

Next time, just let us know you’re not interested in solutions, that you only want to complain.

It will save me a lot of time.

Cheers,
Fred

It is not a solution! Demonstrate it in live playing, because I don't understand how do you retrigger the style to first beat in any moment without any lag or to hear the change!
It seems from your comment that you are a quite nervous, and I don't understand why, as long as I tell you you cannot do this and you did not demonstrate it can be done with a minimum effort!

Example: you have a 4/4 measure in a style. Your singer, (you don't know why), will start playing the verse from third beat instead of first one. How do you retrigger to the first beat using your technique?! 

Fred, I tried your Stop button solution on Pretty Woman and Song Sung Blue. Both tunes have a 6/4 (or 4/4 + 2/4) bar at the end of a phrase. It took me about one minute to master the technique for re-triggering the 4/4 count for the next phrase. I turn the Stop button on and off on an as-needed basis. It works! Probably less streamlined than a dedicated button but with a little practice...

Thanks again .

Demonstrate with a video! I don't believe you can do it without a pause between stop and start!

Regards,
Vali

[Lee Batchelor]

Hi Vali,

I can do it without most of the lag but you do need an impeccable sense of timing. I also admit that I don't get it perfect all the time. I certainly wouldn't record using this technique, but when playing a gig full of noisy people, it would work well enough.

As mentioned, it's not as perfect a solution as having a dedicated button that re-retriggers back to Beat 1 but it's close.

[ugawoga]

Hi
 I bet you can make a lot of new sounds by layering in YEM
I have not tried that yet

All the nbest
john

[ugawoga]

Hi Eileen, and other who enjoy this keyboard.

I did not say I not enjoy it, or I don't make gigs with it, as it is! I do, and I have a lot of gigs, believe me.
But, in the world there are people who are gratefully with what God give them (I am too), and  those people who, above the others, wants more in life! I don't want to stop here! I don't want to think "that's it"! WHY?! Some of us are advanced users/players of this keyboard and other ones, pianos, even other instruments... Why we have only to gratefully only with this if we now there is more potential, but in the fact, the things which bothers us are not solved in a year and a half from the launch of it?!
I (and others), we know you are pleased, you enjoy it. Very well ! Enjoy it, but let us speak about problems there are in this keyboard, that Yamaha see and solve those problems! I told it in the past and I tell now again: if someone's problem exists and he/she encountered it, that does not mean this has to be solved with a workaround thing! It must be working as it has to be!
I, personally, don't care why some of you does not recognize that this (wonderful, yes) keyboard has glitches and bugs. Maybe, you, how you play, and how do you highly use this keyboard, you don't encounter problems. It's very ok, sing and play a lot as you play.
We, others, which encounter problems, we want to tell about them, to be known, and to complain, because we expect on a TOTL arranger to work at least without operating problems, all controls to work fine. I expect for Style Reset function till 1.20 version has come. I tough it will be in 1.20. After that I tough it will be in 1.30, now in 1.40. They don't care about it, because of you, those which are negate the utility of new functions. You post every time "it's not needed" that, and that, and that! Why those functions are bad in the keyboard? What bothers you so much the presence of some new functions?! Why don't you align with other users which care about Yamaha keyboards and wants more?
I think it is not unity from you, guys! Yes, I don't use midi files, but I did not say never that is a bul...s.. the presence of that player in keyboards. Let it be, if someone use it, let it be there, I don't care who use it and who not!

Please, be more kind with the people who want more things, or want some functions to be repaired (like registration bank). If someone told about a problem, before saying it is not a problem, test on your keyboard the given information, and if it is happening to you too, that means it is a problem. Yes, maybe not for you, but for other might be! So, I encourage the unity, not for "let it be as it is" !

Best regards, and I hope some day all of you will think as it might to be, for others too, not only for you!
Vali

God is great , because he gives us a free Organ well Half of us
All the best
John

[valimaties]

Hi Vali,

I can do it without most of the lag but you do need an impeccable sense of timing. I also admit that I don't get it perfect all the time. I certainly wouldn't record using this technique, but when playing a gig full of noisy people, it would work well enough.

As mentioned, it's not as perfect a solution as having a dedicated button that re-retriggers back to Beat 1 but it's close.

Lee, I appreciate your comment, as Fred also (but I don't know why he is such nervous )

BTW, I did some tricks for resetting the measure by using shyncro stop button, and pressing the keys on beat (one or two times, depending on the beat I start resetting the style manually, using this technique). It is very hard to do it on a style on 198->203 tempo beat
But really, with a reset function (think about it) you can also make some "mixing" style as a DJ (something like Sty Rtg function from knobs).

'Till I have a demonstration that it can be done with minimum effort using your workaround, I now there is not a real solution, and a good solution one.
Sorry, but you must convince me!

Fred, be more calm - show me how you do it, and I will believe it can be done and I'm the fool which cannot do it !

Regards,
Vali

[Bachus]

Expectations, are never a good thing, fallen for that to many times...
However there is a differnce between epecting and wishing..

Personally i am more a wishfull thinker..

I for long have found work arounds for the things i wished for in the Genos..
Mostly due to my modx8, but also by some other expansions (modules and ipad)
I am quite happy where my setup is now..
And i am still severely happy with my genos..

I recon the upgrade was quite small, but a step forward.
And every step is a step..

My biggest problem currently is time management..
Made a big promotion at work, but getting ito my job sucks most my time
I barely have time to play late at nights..
But things should become better after summer..

[travlin-easy]

C'mon guys, it's just a matter of timing, and some folks can master Fred's technique in a matter of minutes, while some will never be able to master it. Songs with those kind of breaks have been around for a long time and for as long as they have been around, keyboard players have been able to perform that break with a fair degree of accuracy if they take the time to practice it.

Good luck,

Gary

[tyrosaurus]

Maybe I am missing something regarding what you are trying to achieve, but why is it necessary to use both the Stop button and then Sync Start?

When you press Sync Start (or trigger it from a pedal) the style stops anyway, so pressing Stop first seems to do nothing other than add an extra step, making the timing more difficult.

Whether you press Stop first or just Sync Start, the style only restarts when you trigger a chord.

Whichever way you do it, it is going to be much more difficult to get a good result with fast tempos compared to typical 'crooning' songs.


Regards

Ian

[ugawoga]

Hi

 I play the Byrds Turn turn turn. Highlight Sync Start, play the intro yourself without beats and then go for the sync start all is great once you lay your hand on the first chord off you go, the same in the middle wait for the fill to end with a cymbol and press sync start, play the first little bit and go for the chord again  and off you go . no lag. All you have to do is get your timing right or all will go ***((()%%$£"! up!!

all the best
John

[Joe H]

One thing that definitely needs fixing on the Genos is an "update code" for the Live Control knobs and faders.  It IS possible to fix this.  There have been many complaints about how the Volume or other parameters "jump" when adjusting Live Control parameters rather than a smooth adjustment starting from the current setting... which should be expected from a $3000 keyboard.  It should even be expected from mid-priced keyboards like the S970 and S975.

There has been previous discussions about "encoder" knobs verses faders.  Yamaha can fix this current poor implementation of how the knobs and faders function/respond.  It's not rocket science... just implementing good basic computer code. They could just borrow the code from the Motif. I believe that particular fix would make everyone happy, even those who say it's not a big deal... home players and gigging musicians alike.

NOTE: This function was included on the Peavey PC1600x hardware controller in the late 1990s.  If I adjust the volume for an external sound module from the Mixing Console on the keyboard, then I can adjust the volume further using the Peavey faders... with a smooth transition (no jumps up or down). If the Peavey programmer could figure it out, then Yamaha can figure it out too.

 

Joe H

[Lee Batchelor]

Agreed, Ian. I think in Fred's first post on this subject, he meant that the Sync button must be used to start the style - not the Start/Stop button. After the style is started using the Sync button, the Sync function stays on, and then you can engage the Stop button when needed.

Gary is 100 percent correct. Some of us can time it very well while others may need to work hard at getting the feel of it. Once you get it to work, it's a wonderful tool. For years, my music buddy and I have been playing Pretty Woman and letting that one bar play out a full four beats. Even the audience sings along like the original. Kind of embarrassing to throw them a curve ball .

[valimaties]

I don't know why some people bothers with some new function, even if there is a workaround?!

I can't understand 

Ok... Let it as it is, I see that I cannot change the workaround guys  
My thought are you live in a workaround world, it's like you eat soup with fork, because after a time it's surely that you will finish it, what matter that spoon was invented?! ))))))))


Regards,
Vali

[Bachus]

One thing that definitely needs fixing on the Genos is an "update code" for the Live Control knobs and faders.  It IS possible to fix this.  There have been many complaints about how the Volume or other parameters "jump" when adjusting Live Control parameters rather than a smooth adjustment starting from the current setting... which should be expected from a $3000 keyboard.  It should even be expected from mid-priced keyboards like the S970 and S975.

There has been previous discussions about "encoder" knobs verses faders.  Yamaha can fix this current poor implementation of how the knobs and faders function/respond.  It's not rocket science... just implementing good basic computer code. They could just barrow the code from the Motif. I believe that particular fix would make everyone happy, even those who say it's not a big deal... home players and gigging musicians alike.

NOTE: This function was included on the Peavey PC1600x hardware controller in the late 1990s.  If I adjust the volume for an external sound module from the Mixing Console on the keyboard, then I can adjust the volume further using the Peavey faders... with a smooth transition (no jumps up or down). If the Peavey programmer could figure it out, then Yamaha can figure it out too.

 

Joe H

This is definately one of the things that becomes an irritator of some kind, when you are used to better. In the modx, you can choose from 3 different behaviour models for knobs and sliders.

[travlin-easy]

Hey, why not just use a song specific style, which is what I have been doing for years for Pretty Woman and several other songs of this ilk.

Now, in order to use the attached style, you will need to learn how to sing the song's end in time with the style's ending, which is exact for the song. Works for me every time.

Enjoy,

Gary



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