Author Topic: show to convert a short song to an intro of a style ?  (Read 10094 times)

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Offline tyros2009

show to convert a short song to an intro of a style ?
« on: June 23, 2019, 10:29:22 PM »
To create a rich intro, I have to record a short song, then record a few more tracks.
I tried to play this song the normal way, then when it just ends I start playing the rythm. This method did not work at all.
There is significant delay in between.

The question is:  how can I incorporate this short song as an INTRO of the style I am play ? (then I will save it a a new style.


Offline mikf

Re: show to convert a short song to an intro of a style ?
« Reply #1 on: June 24, 2019, 12:03:54 AM »
I don't think you can do this on the keyboard. There is a 'clock' issue that causes a delay. To play seamlessly, the intro has to be created track by track in style creator. I suspect there may be external software that allows you to do this, but I am not familiar with any. You could just play the intro live and start the style at the right time. This works as long as you are not trying to record a midi - if so it runs into the clock issue again and there will be  delay. 
Mike

Offline DrakeM

Re: show to convert a short song to an intro of a style ?
« Reply #2 on: June 24, 2019, 02:53:37 AM »
Using your keyboard you have to record each track separately into one of the intro slots. Remember to make the Intro slot more measures than you think you will need when you start the project. When you are finished with all the track recordings you can then "delete" any measure you don't need from the intro.

But I think it would be much easier to create your intro and then turn it into an MP3 file. Then record a separate backing track for the rest of the song turn it into an MP3 file. Combine the 2 tracks in Audacity to make a compete backing track MP3, which you could then play along with.

Regards
Drake 
« Last Edit: June 24, 2019, 02:54:54 AM by DrakeM »
 

Offline tyros2009

Re: show to convert a short song to an intro of a style ?
« Reply #3 on: June 24, 2019, 04:34:36 AM »
But I think it would be much easier to create your intro and then turn it into an MP3 file

This is how I do it at the present time. Create intro as a short song (adding more tracks to make it rich), then record to the hard drive as an audio file. During live play, I play the audio file first, when it ends, I start playing the rythm to accompany the singer. There is NO DELAY at all. The audio can be re-played anytime if the song needs it at more than one place.

The above scheme works BUT ... I have to load both the rythm style AND the audio file.
Trouble: if another singer sing the same song with a different key, the audio file above cannot be used, I have to record another audio file when re-playing the MIDI song transposing to the new key. This has to be done before the show. Can't do it on demand.
A real intro of any rythm follows the key you play.
« Last Edit: June 24, 2019, 04:40:55 PM by tyros2009 »
 

Offline mikf

Re: show to convert a short song to an intro of a style ?
« Reply #4 on: June 24, 2019, 11:03:08 AM »
To explain why this happens - the midi is recorded on a sequencer on your keyboard - not a recording device. A sequencer is just what it says, it sequences all the keyboard commands against a time clock so they can then be reproduced exactly. The pitch (key) of the music is can be easily adjusted on a midi by simply inserting an additional command to insert a digital offset against all musical notes. In very simple terms a style is essentially a short repeating midi where software does this digital pitch adjustment ‘on the fly’ as you play chords. Because this is all happening against a time clock, you cannot easily put two midis together because the clock resets (the delay you hear). It has to be one continuous midi to avoid this delay.
An audio file is actually recording sound in real time, not a series of sequenced commands. This is why there is no ‘delay’ in live playing when style is started because you don’t have a competing clock running. But equally why a simple pitch offset cannot work with audio.
This is all a bit over simplistic description of complex software, but roughly explains why what you want to do - have a canned intro both meld seamlessly into the style and be pitch adjustable - is not possible. Having said that, there have been some posts which inferred this dual clock issue may have  been solved on some later keyboards. I have seen no evidence of that.
The obvious answer to be able to play in any key is to either play the intro live or create a new intro on style creator. The other possibility if these are well known  songs is to find a specific style for this song where someone has done the work already. Even if they are not exactly what you want, it will be easier to edit an existing style than start from scratch. Unfortunately to do this you may have to plow through zillions of styles to find a gem because most of these so-called ‘song specific styles’  are often nothing more than standard generic styles with some minor editing - maybe only tempo and OTS - to reasonably suit the chosen song, and not really cover versions of the well known intro or accompaniment.
Mike
 
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Offline panos

Re: show to convert a short song to an intro of a style ?
« Reply #5 on: June 24, 2019, 12:50:19 PM »
Hi tyros2009,
yes you could record an intro in style creator which would have fixed chords and fixed melody line(or lines) but it would  probably sound correctly only in a specific key and as Mike said it is a very hard thing to achieve.
It would be a lot more hard to achieve something like this if you want that intro to sound correctly in other keys too.
Almost impossible to be done by "simple" users like you and me.

Fixed chords and fixed melody means that you press just the first chord and the rest is played by the keyboard.
All 8 parts of the intro should be recorded separately in any case in style creator.


Offline tyros2009

Re: show to convert a short song to an intro of a style ?
« Reply #6 on: June 24, 2019, 04:31:22 PM »
"have a canned intro both meld seamlessly into the style and be pitch adjustable - is not possible"

OH YES, iIT IS POSSIBLE, alll ryhtms that come with Tyros3 have intros.
And I have lots of rythms created (by others) for different songs, and their intros are incorporated as part of the rythm as well.
So when I start this intro, the entire intro is played in whatever key (based on the chord) I start with.
And it is clear that if the intro is created for a major key as the song is in major key, playing the same intro with a minor key will sound VERY ODD and of course I don't do that. And an intro created for a minor key song, playing with a major key sounds ODD.
I can play intro LIVE (which I do most often), but it will not sound as rich as a short song I recorded with more tracks added afterward.
That is the main goal, make the intro sounding rich.
Reading many tutorials in this Website, I guess, the proper method would be to used a software running on PC to merge the short MIDI intro in the rythm.
If this is correct, I like to know which software and how to get all this done.
Many thanks in advance.

« Last Edit: June 24, 2019, 04:43:11 PM by tyros2009 »
 

Offline mikf

Re: show to convert a short song to an intro of a style ?
« Reply #7 on: June 24, 2019, 07:00:37 PM »
"have a canned intro both meld seamlessly into the style and be pitch adjustable - is not possible"

OH YES, iIT IS POSSIBLE, alll ryhtms that come with Tyros3 have intros.
And I have lots of rythms created (by others) for different songs, and their intros are incorporated as part of the rythm as well.
So when I start this intro, the entire intro is played in whatever key (based on the chord) I start with.

You keep using the word rhythm, but I am sure you mean the accompaniment tracks, which are properly called styles. And of course you can do everything you say with existing Yamaha styles, that's what they do.
By 'canned' I mean an intro you record as a mini song either midi or audio and I think you have entirely missed my point, which is that it is not possible for you to do this and merge it seamlessly with a style file. You can only create a seamless intro and style on the keyboard by using style creator and creating your own intro - track by track. Thats how the others you refer to will have done it, and it's not a trivial task.
If there is external software that can do this, I am not aware of it. Someone else may know of some.
It is probable that  that the professionals at Yamaha have some smart systems and software to make the creation of intros and endings, and styles in general, faster and easier. But if so they certainly have not shared that with the buying public.
Mike