Author Topic: My Genos Froze.  (Read 6643 times)

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Re: My Genos Froze.
« Reply #50 on: May 20, 2019, 05:57:59 PM »
Hi

Thank you for the Answer,
oh sorry, yes i should open a seperate Threat for that.

I have been using the genos for 6 months now. I have not discovered a song preset function.
I think I'm getting old.
Does anyone use this song preset function?
Siggi
 

Re: My Genos Froze.
« Reply #51 on: May 20, 2019, 08:33:37 PM »
Stuart, Abby uses some heavy-duty equipment while performing, and most of the USP systems I've seen that would handle that much current cost well over $200.

True, but when one has equipment worth many, many thousands of $, that would seem like a reasonable investment.

Regards,

Chris
 

Offline Pianoman

Re: My Genos Froze.
« Reply #52 on: May 20, 2019, 08:55:35 PM »
Hello Gary.

I'm happy to  see you posting.
I answered your previous comment and about the song Laura.
I don't know if you've read it.

I'm also happy to announce that I'm playing in the same hotel tonight where the Genos
froze last Thursday and there has been no Genos freeze.

In fact I've been playing in different hotels since the Genos froze on Thursday and
everything has been hunky dory.

Best Regards.
Abby.
If everybody is thinking alike, then somebody isn't thinking.

George S. Patton Jr.


Welcome To My YouTube Videos.
https://m.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLJo1iW9nz1GWzeg1QBl-1wVx14CDWlBqx
 

Offline ugawoga

Re: My Genos Froze.
« Reply #53 on: May 20, 2019, 09:49:56 PM »
The Genos is really a computer and all computers occasionally freeze. Sometimes midi glitches happen and you get that awful noise until reboot.
It is what they do and sometimes too many actions in quick succession can freeze a computer system.
All the Best
john
 
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Offline Toril S

Re: My Genos Froze.
« Reply #54 on: May 20, 2019, 10:27:20 PM »
I also have a freeze now and then on my PSRS.
Toril S

Tyros 5, PSR S975, PSR 2100 and PSR-47.
Former keyboards: PSR-S970.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCLVwWdb36Yd3LMBjAnm6pTQ?view_as=subscriber



Toril's PSR Performer Page
 

Offline Joe H

Re: My Genos Froze.
« Reply #55 on: May 20, 2019, 11:13:34 PM »
I've had a PSR 510, an S910 and now a S970 for the last 25 years in the same location/house.  I don't turn the keyboard on when there is an electrical storm because we sometime have power outages. 

Under normal conditions I experienced no freezes ever... so it must be the electrical mains with variable voltage or spikes.  I think a ups device would work for areas with inconsistent voltages.

Joe H
Music is the Universal Language!

My Article: Using Multi Pads for EDM. Download Regs, Styles & MPs:  http://psrtutorial.com/music/articles/dancemusic.html
 
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Offline travlin-easy

Re: My Genos Froze.
« Reply #56 on: May 21, 2019, 01:17:10 AM »
Hi Abby, glad you enjoyed my rendition of Laura and hope things continue to improve for you as the season progresses. Also very happy to see that you have an extremely busy schedule. My only wish is that I was in good enough health to travel to Ibiza to meet with you in person, but alas the health issues have worsened considerably during the past six months.

Keep in touch and keep us posted about your progress, old friend,

Gary 8)
Love Those Yammies...
 

Offline stephenm52

Re: My Genos Froze.
« Reply #57 on: May 21, 2019, 02:59:44 AM »
My Genos froze too, but I wasnít at a gig but I was transporting it from the cold north to a warmer climate. The overnight temps were in the single digits. Actually my wife and I were frozen too with those temperatures. :) :)      Sorry no harm intended I thought Iíd just add some humor to the discussion.

My more serious thought is I can understand Abbeyís concerns itís too bad he couldnít have got his hands on another Tyros 3.  It has to be very frustrating for him playing keys that he doesnít care for. 


I donít think Iíve ever read so much controversy anywhere about any arranger keyboard as there has been about Genos since its release.  Me? I own one use it for gigs and have never had a problem, but I donít play gigs 6 or 7 days per week.

I take no offense when the Genos is criticized, I know it works for me and Iím happy with it, if Iím not I just head over to my Korg Pa4x.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2019, 03:03:50 AM by stephenm52 »
GENOS, Clavinova CVP 307, PSR s970, Korg Pa4x-76

Steve's Genos Recordings

Steve's Gig Disks
 

Offline beykock

Re: My Genos Froze.
« Reply #58 on: May 21, 2019, 05:10:29 AM »
Hi,

The Tyros has always been Abby's favourite instrument.
He never liked the Genos that much, remember his comments.

If a professional like Abby has approx. 6 gigs every week, a spare arranger keyboard is always a must, IMHO.

Babette


« Last Edit: May 21, 2019, 05:17:25 AM by beykock »
NO BUSINESS LIKE SHOW BUSINESS
 

Offline ugawoga

Re: My Genos Froze.
« Reply #59 on: May 21, 2019, 09:12:53 AM »
Hi Abbey
I am in agreement 100%
A professional should always carry a spare with anything that involves computerized components.
With all the possibilities and Murphy's  law It makes common sense.

All the best
John :)
 

Offline mikf

Re: My Genos Froze.
« Reply #60 on: May 21, 2019, 10:24:16 AM »
This idea of carrying a spare is something that sounds good on paper, but in practice if you have done a lot of gigs, you would know that every additional piece of equipment is not just a cost, but something to be loaded, unloaded, carried, stored, cared for, checked periodically and kept up to date. OMB people have no roadie to do this for them, so if Abby is anything like me, he keeps it to the minimum possible. Especially with a back up keyboard which is actually pretty unlikely ever to be needed, because if it locks up, it would usually be quicker to re boot, and re run the failed keyboard than setting up a new piece of equipment. And you would ALWAYS try that first anyway. If it is a power issue the other  keyboard will not work anyway, so it is only in the very unlikely circumstance - maybe one gig in a thousand - that a keyboard totally and suddenly stops working for no external reason and cannot be re booted that the second keyboard would be any use. And in any case, Abby has a back up - a digital piano, not ideal but in an emergency, I bet an experienced pro like Abby could mug through a show with it. And where do you stop, do you duplicate everything just in case??? Apart from high level pros with an entourage I doubt anyone does that. Basically, its just a very small risk, like a new car breaking down, that hopefully never happens, and if it does ... well you just have to live with it. 
Mike
 

Offline Pianoman

Re: My Genos Froze.
« Reply #61 on: May 21, 2019, 11:34:36 AM »
You hit it right on the nail Mike.

First, there are no power issues in any of the hotels that I work in here.
I'm sure that they have a all kinds of precautions in place anyway.

I already have a second powered mixer, tyre repair kit and battery powered pump,
oil, radiator fluid, powered screw drivers and all kinds of instrument repair tools in the car.

I also had a backup Yamaha PF 100 Clavinova at home, that I eventually donated
to the primary school where my son used to go to.
The headmaster is a friend.

There just isn't enough space anymore im the car.
So I would have to rush home to pick up whatever backup instrument
that may be needed.

Like I wrote in my original post, the T3 ran like clockwork for 10 years.
I even commented to a pub owner that the board was indestructible.

Anyway, I'm getting the hang of my Genos now, thanks to Lee for helping me out
with EQ issues, as well as all the good advice that I've been receiving from all the
members responding to my issues.

Best Regards.
Abby.
If everybody is thinking alike, then somebody isn't thinking.

George S. Patton Jr.


Welcome To My YouTube Videos.
https://m.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLJo1iW9nz1GWzeg1QBl-1wVx14CDWlBqx
 

Re: My Genos Froze.
« Reply #62 on: May 21, 2019, 12:52:45 PM »
For a veteran pro like Abby, instead of investing another $6000 (or whatever your price is), he could create an audio backup list of tunes. It would take time, but he could record an entire gig's worth of music, play it back, and just sing to the tracks while faking the hand movements. The only downside is, he wouldn't be able to take requests.

I also like the suggestion of just using the Kawai piano. He could sneak by with it - just not as lively. No good for a dance.
Current Gear: Genos, SoundCraft mixer, two Bose L1 Compacts, 15 inch sub designed and built by myself, Yamaha HS8 studio monitors, Cubase 8 Artist, Steinberg UR-44.
 

Offline beykock

Re: My Genos Froze.
« Reply #63 on: May 21, 2019, 01:32:36 PM »
Hi Mike,

I agree it might be a problem to load / unload 2 arranger keyboards but it must be much harder for a pro gigger if he/she cannot perform and must go home ( without payment ? ).

However, the audience and the ( hotel ) owner will be very disappointed. They are paying to be entertained.

It might be a risky challenge, I guess.

A spare like a PSRS 970/975 too heavy ... ?
Why not replace the piano by an extra arranger keyboard ?

Is there another alternative if one is gigging 6x in one week ?

Maybe other ( ex )giggers can answer these questions and are willing to share their experiences.

Babette

« Last Edit: May 21, 2019, 01:34:52 PM by beykock »
NO BUSINESS LIKE SHOW BUSINESS
 

Offline Pianoman

Re: My Genos Froze.
« Reply #64 on: May 21, 2019, 01:46:46 PM »
Hello Babette.

Good suggestions, but I can't perform without a piano.
I am a pianist first and foremost, the arranger is just an added sweetener/bonus.

I drive a Chrysler PT Cruiser exclusively for transporting my gear.
I also have a VW Golf for personal use.

I couldn't even add a toothpick into the Chrysler. It's full to the brim.
Apart from the arranger and mixer that I take inside the house every night,
the rest of my gear stays permanently in the car for at least 6 months a year.

Thanks for the suggestions though.

Best Regards.
Abby.
If everybody is thinking alike, then somebody isn't thinking.

George S. Patton Jr.


Welcome To My YouTube Videos.
https://m.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLJo1iW9nz1GWzeg1QBl-1wVx14CDWlBqx
 

Offline mikf

Re: My Genos Froze.
« Reply #65 on: May 21, 2019, 02:14:14 PM »
Many of us have been there done that like Abby - vehicle packed every square inch with gear. The thing is that you would be carrying the spare every time and probably never use it. And sure as fate, if you carry a spare keyboard it would actually be something else that lets you down.
Extra equipment is more of an issue than people who don't do this regularly understand. I always thought the hardest part of playing gigs was loading the equipment back into a car at 2 am when everyone else is gone, probably through three fire doors and down 2 sets of stairs, and when you are dead tired. Believe me, at that point you are not thinking 'wish I had brought some spare equipment just in case'.
I had a few equipment issues when I was playing regular gigs, but always found a way to get through it. The hardest thing is to think straight about what might be going wrong when you are under the pressure of an expectant audience.
wasn't a possibility in the days when I was playing gigs, but the ultimate fall back position nowadays is to have a bunch of music on your iPhone, and become a DJ for the evening if all else fails!
Mike
 

Offline Pianoman

Re: My Genos Froze.
« Reply #66 on: May 21, 2019, 02:16:23 PM »
Hello Lee.

I believe that you are a person who has extensive  knowledge about Subwoofers, to
the point of even building your own.

I personally have absolutely no clue about getting the best settings out of them.

From this picture of the rear panel that I am sending, what settings would you recommend
for the Genos?

Especially regarding the High Cut and Boost Frequency.
It is a 2200W powered Subwoofer.

Thank you in advance for any suggestions.

Best Regards.
Abby.
If everybody is thinking alike, then somebody isn't thinking.

George S. Patton Jr.


Welcome To My YouTube Videos.
https://m.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLJo1iW9nz1GWzeg1QBl-1wVx14CDWlBqx
 

Offline travlin-easy

Re: My Genos Froze.
« Reply #67 on: May 21, 2019, 04:05:56 PM »
I performed 6 to 7 days/nights a week for decades, and I carried a Bose L1 Compact, spare mics, spare cables, even a spare laptop. I had a complete, identical setup at home ready to go in the event of a catastrophic failure, which never happened. However, I did have an amp failure, once, and within five minutes, I replaced it with my spare and was back in business.

Like Abby, I had contracts, 50 of them, that had to be fulfilled, which was my legal obligation to my clients. When I was hospitalized, I made arrangements for someone to cover for me, which was spelled out in my contract.

I carried all my gear in my Dodge Grand Caravan with room to spare. If the van were to drop dead, I could fit all my gear in  my wife's Buick and still go to work until the van was repaired - that never happened.

I have seen many of Abby's performances on You Tube, and his piano is an integral part of his overall performance. Keep in mind that not only is Abby a great musician, he is also a fantastic entertainer. He utilizes both the keyboard and piano to their fullest. Audiences see this and respond positively, which is why he is in demand. If his keyboard were to unexpectedly die on the job, I'm confident he could finish the performance using just his piano and vocals and the audience would be none the wiser.

In my case, most of my performances were just an hour long, sometimes two shows a day and on rare occasions, three performances a day. Therefore, I streamlined my setup, selected the lightest gear possible that would provide the highest quality sounds, which decreased my setup and tear-down time to just 7 minutes and I never broke into a sweat. Because I relied heavily on my vocals, if my keyboard were to die on the spot, I would be able to finish the job by just utilizing my laptop PC, prerecorded midi files, Van Basco's MIDI/Karaoke Player and my amp. The keyboard would be replaced as soon as I got home and primary board would go to the repair center the same day. In this instance, I was no different than the plumber with extra spigot washers in the truck, or the electrician with spare circuit breakers and wire on hand.

Home players and weekend warriors who do not rely on their equipment to make a living have far more flexibility and do not have to load and unload their equipment on a daily basis, which can be hard on sensitive electronic gear, especially arranger keyboards which have dozens of tiny plugs and multiple circuit boards. As a pro, musical entertainer, we must treat this as a business venture, with such additional expenses as backup equipment. Fortunately, our equipment is very reliable and failures are extremely rare.

Fortunately, Abby has been able to resolve some of his issues and work around others. Hopefully, he will not experience another freeze-up.

Good luck,

Gary 8)
Love Those Yammies...
 

Re: My Genos Froze.
« Reply #68 on: May 21, 2019, 04:06:34 PM »
Hi Abby. I'm glad to help with you subwoofer settings.

The sub is designed to extend the low-frequency range of your two Mains. It would be handy to have the frequency response specs for your Mains, but I'd wager they probably produce frequencies down to about 55 Hz. Depending on how the Low Cut filter is designed, the Mains may be able to reproduce a four string bass guitar open E note, which is 41 Hz, but not very loud or warm. That's where the sub helps.

Your picture shows a High Cut knob. In plain English, the term, "High Cut" (also known as a High Pass filter) means "What is the highest frequency that I want my subwoofer to produce?" I can only see part of the range because the knob is in the way, but I'm assuming the range is from 50 Hz to 150 Hz? You currently have it set at 100 Hz. This means the subwoofer is producing all notes up to 100 Hz and probably a bit more. This is too high because your Mains can easily produce frequencies down to 55 Hz. In plain English, this means that the frequencies between 55 Hz and 100 Hz are being produced by all three speakers - not good. This can create a very muddy sound and also give you a lot of undefined bass.
Therefore, I would set the High Cut at 80 Hz and no higher. My two Bose Compacts are very linear down to 65 Hz. I also set my High Cut to 80 Hz.

The Boost knob is used for filling in a low-frequency sound that has been canceled usually due to room response or phase issues between the Mains and your sub. The good news is, you can turn the Boost switch Off. Your speakers are of very good quality, so it's highly unlikely you need to boost any frequency. One exception is if your playing dinner music where the ambient noise is fairly low and you just want to warm up the bass a bit. In that case, you can turn the switch On and set the boost to about 45 Hz. You can do that by playing a chord on the Genos and listening to the bass line to see if there is an improvement. If you don't hear a drastic improvement, leave it Off. Without a huge explanation about the Phase switch, set it to the Norm position.

Final settings
Set the High Cut to 80 Hz
Set the Boost switch to Off
Set the Phase to Norm

Let me know how it works for you. There should be a huge improvement in the bass clarity. As a side note, your current settings can create howling and rumble in a hall the tends to echo. That's the last thing you need!

- Lee
Current Gear: Genos, SoundCraft mixer, two Bose L1 Compacts, 15 inch sub designed and built by myself, Yamaha HS8 studio monitors, Cubase 8 Artist, Steinberg UR-44.
 

Offline Pianoman

Re: My Genos Froze.
« Reply #69 on: May 21, 2019, 05:06:43 PM »
Thank you Gary for your comments and praise.

What you say regarding gear, set up and tear down times is the truth.
I've  always been a big fan of yours and highly value your professional
tips.

You know the joys and stresses of this job.

I have to rush off to my gig now so I can't add more comments.

Best Regards.
Abby.
If everybody is thinking alike, then somebody isn't thinking.

George S. Patton Jr.


Welcome To My YouTube Videos.
https://m.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLJo1iW9nz1GWzeg1QBl-1wVx14CDWlBqx
 

Offline Pianoman

Re: My Genos Froze.
« Reply #70 on: May 21, 2019, 05:08:52 PM »
Hello Lee.

Thank you for the quick response, much appreciated.
I'm of to try out your suggestions now, and will let you know the results.

Best Regards.
Abby.
If everybody is thinking alike, then somebody isn't thinking.

George S. Patton Jr.


Welcome To My YouTube Videos.
https://m.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLJo1iW9nz1GWzeg1QBl-1wVx14CDWlBqx
 

Offline StuartR

Re: My Genos Froze.
« Reply #71 on: May 21, 2019, 05:49:11 PM »
Stuart, Abby uses some heavy-duty equipment while performing, and most of the USP systems I've seen that would handle that much current cost well over $200. The system you quoted would be for the keyboard only and not the amps, mixer, lights, etc...

Gary  8)

Right Gary... the UPS should only be needed on gear that contains computer- based OSs and have significant restart (boot up) times, like the Genos.
A good EMI/RFI filtering surge protector should be used ahead of all the gear.  IMHO of course.
 

Offline beykock

Re: My Genos Froze.
« Reply #72 on: May 21, 2019, 09:08:07 PM »
Hi Gary,

Your experience information is very interesting and useful.
Thank you so much for sharing it. I learned a lot.

In my perception the daily life of a One Man's Band is not easy at all.
 
Expensive and heavy equipment ( = big car, reliable instrument(s), mics, amplifiers, speakers, mixer etc.), no personnel and long, late and hard working hours.
And ... last but not least : almost no family life.
 
It looks like a pro gigger needs a lot of work and customers to have an attractive income.
Nowadays not so easy to find, I guess.

Best wishes, Babette

NO BUSINESS LIKE SHOW BUSINESS
 

Re: My Genos Froze.
« Reply #73 on: May 21, 2019, 09:10:59 PM »
Glad to help, Abby! Yes please, let us know if you hear any improvement. If not, please post links to the speaker specs of your Mains and sub. Thanks...

- Lee
Current Gear: Genos, SoundCraft mixer, two Bose L1 Compacts, 15 inch sub designed and built by myself, Yamaha HS8 studio monitors, Cubase 8 Artist, Steinberg UR-44.
 

Re: My Genos Froze.
« Reply #74 on: May 21, 2019, 09:27:40 PM »


.......I think you have to learn a lot about how to use and how to handle
a complex instrument as a Genos .

That takes time and you are in this situation just a "beginner" .
So start learning today and try to understand your instrument .

Normal members do not write long messages with only complaints .

When a normal player does not understand something he/she askes  "how to questions "

Employees in musicshops think that you are payed for your bashing messages , that could be right .

I am not sure that you own a Genos .


Mark Z. keeps claiming  anyone who critisizes Genos does not own one. Last year he claimed I did not have one. Dear Pianoman, just wait and he will call you a "Clown", a title he he was allowed to bestow on me. He also claimed I was considered a fool on German sites just like he claims "Employees in musicshops think that you are payed for your bashing messages"

For reasons I have not been able to find out Mark Z. enjoys special protection on this site.

Cheers

Kaarlo
The year you were born is unimportant as long as you can still play your keyboard and don't have to change the treble setting
 

Offline Toril S

Re: My Genos Froze.
« Reply #75 on: May 21, 2019, 09:47:56 PM »
Abby, just curious: Where on the keyboard do you use RADIATOR FLUID. (Just kidding a little). Wish you all the best with your gigs, and am happy that you are starting to be friends with your Genos.
Toril S

Tyros 5, PSR S975, PSR 2100 and PSR-47.
Former keyboards: PSR-S970.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCLVwWdb36Yd3LMBjAnm6pTQ?view_as=subscriber



Toril's PSR Performer Page
 

Re: My Genos Froze.
« Reply #76 on: May 21, 2019, 09:59:11 PM »
Babette,

.....It appears you either love Genos, or hate it, and thereís not much in between....

Cheers,
Fred

Hello Fred,

I am kind of  "in between" and hope the update will push me to the  "supporters".  I remember your list, hope YAMAHA did what you asked for.

BTW,  did anyone dare bet with you about whether there will be an update?  Needless to say, I did not.

Cheers

Kaartlo
The year you were born is unimportant as long as you can still play your keyboard and don't have to change the treble setting
 

Re: My Genos Froze.
« Reply #77 on: May 21, 2019, 10:28:00 PM »
It might happen electronic instruments and/or computers are freezing.
Maybe most of us experienced this frustrating action once or twice.
The reason why it happens is not easy to find out. IMHO technicians can answer that question.

Babette

You are right. As has been said here, the mains in the place you gig at are  a critical factor. I had the problem a few times with Genos. But it was always in hotels in the countryside, never in Helsinki.   
It never happened to me with the Tyros series, so it might also have to do with how big the capacitors on the DC side in the electronics  are. I opened up my Genos to make the smallest range of the pitchbender less than 1/2 note (which is ok for hawai-guitars and trombones but too much for saxes and trumpets) So I contemplated to  install additional capacitors but did not do that because I was afraid the additional currant draw to charge the capacitors on power up might be a problem.

Cheers

Kaarlo
The year you were born is unimportant as long as you can still play your keyboard and don't have to change the treble setting
 

Offline Pianoman

Re: My Genos Froze.
« Reply #78 on: May 22, 2019, 10:48:09 AM »

Mark Z. keeps claiming  anyone who critisizes Genos does not own one. Last year he claimed I did not have one. Dear Pianoman, just wait and he will call you a "Clown", a title he he was allowed to bestow on me. He also claimed I was considered a fool on German sites just like he claims "Employees in musicshops think that you are payed for your bashing messages"

For reasons I have not been able to find out Mark Z. enjoys special protection on this site.

Cheers

Kaarlo

Hello Kaarlo.

It's good to hear from you.
I did answer Mr. Mark Z here and also posted the answer to him via PM as well,
in case he missed it here in this thread.

I got a nasty response and an even nastier PM back for my efforts to encourage civility.
The vitriol was ferocious and unwarranted.

Such things are just not done between members.
But these are the times that we live in, where anonymity on the internet encourages
the worst instincts in people.

I'm not sure about the subject of Mr.Mark Z enjoying special protection, but I do remember
that when he called you a "Clown in a white suit" I was the only one who condemned
such language.

I did urge others to condemn it too, and all I heard was silence.
Silence in a situation like that is also a form of approval.

It is very normal to love one's instrument, especially after having paid a lot of money for it,
But to try and oblige others to do the same, and insult them if they don't, , or to form a cult
mentality around an inanimate object is weird, to say the least.

Best Regards.
Abby.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2019, 10:51:15 AM by Pianoman »
If everybody is thinking alike, then somebody isn't thinking.

George S. Patton Jr.


Welcome To My YouTube Videos.
https://m.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLJo1iW9nz1GWzeg1QBl-1wVx14CDWlBqx
 

Offline mikf

Re: My Genos Froze.
« Reply #79 on: May 22, 2019, 11:06:49 AM »
Mark has no special protection, he is now gone from the forum.
Sometimes the moderators just miss things, or decide to allow it to run to see if it is a one off, but it is now dealt with.
Mike
 
The following users thanked this post: terryB, Kaarlo von Freymann, khudson7

Offline Pianoman

Re: My Genos Froze.
« Reply #80 on: May 22, 2019, 12:05:06 PM »
Glad to help, Abby! Yes please, let us know if you hear any improvement. If not, please post links to the speaker specs of your Mains and sub. Thanks...

- Lee

Hello Lee.

I did try your recommendations last night and set the High Cut to 80 Hz and the boost
to off.
There was a marked improvement in the Sub's sound response, giving a rich overall
sound to the Genos.

Midway through the gig I decided to set the High Cut down to 70Hz and switchiing on
the Boost but leaving it on 40 Hz.

Both sounded good, but regarding the 70Hz and 40Hz Boost, it could also have been
because of the room that I played in, which had plenty of wood panelling and carpets.

Here are the specifications for the mains and the sub that you requested.

They're the only ones that I could find.

Best Regards.
Abby.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2019, 12:43:26 PM by Pianoman »
If everybody is thinking alike, then somebody isn't thinking.

George S. Patton Jr.


Welcome To My YouTube Videos.
https://m.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLJo1iW9nz1GWzeg1QBl-1wVx14CDWlBqx
 

Offline beykock

Re: My Genos Froze.
« Reply #81 on: May 22, 2019, 12:12:17 PM »
Hi Abby :

Silence does not ( always ) mean I agree with comments given by some ( ex ) members of this group.

As far as I know only moderators of this group have the power to act if comments are not acceptable.

Babette
NO BUSINESS LIKE SHOW BUSINESS
 

Re: My Genos Froze.
« Reply #82 on: May 22, 2019, 12:41:11 PM »
Thanks for the specs, Abby. I'm glad to hear there was an improvement. You are 100 percent correct in trying some adjustments outside of my basic recommendations. The room and people within it can have a pronounced effect on the overall sound.

Even professional loudspeaker designers who use very sophisticated software agree that when the equations and frequency response graphs show a near perfect speaker design, their ears are the final judge. They often make adjustments to the crossover circuitry that messes up those graphs but for some reason, the speaker just sounds better in the test booth.

I'll read through those specs and post back soon. Thanks...

- Lee
Current Gear: Genos, SoundCraft mixer, two Bose L1 Compacts, 15 inch sub designed and built by myself, Yamaha HS8 studio monitors, Cubase 8 Artist, Steinberg UR-44.
 

Re: My Genos Froze.
« Reply #83 on: May 22, 2019, 01:55:21 PM »
Hi Abby,

I just went through your speaker specs. I was very curious to know the dB level of the Boost circuitry. The bass is boosted by 10 dB at the selected frequency, with a Q value = 1!! This means, if you turn the Boost on, the chosen frequency is boosted to twice the perceived volume. I would reserve that setting for outdoors only.

According to the spec sheet, your Mains respond from 55 Hz to 16,000 Hz. Your sub has a usable frequency range of 45 Hz to 150 Hz. The specs also mention that the sub can reproduce frequencies down to 32 Hz, but that's at -10dB. This means the sub is really only effective down to 45 Hz and maybe a little lower. Bass guitar notes in the low range will sound okay but a lot of the lower harmonics that give the bass a warm sound will be missing. Perhaps you hear this too? Worse, is the fact that a lot of the bass notes are being reproduced by all three speakers, which can create issues. You're probably achieving a decent sound but I question whether the Behringer is a good match with the EONS, especially at 42 kg. The last thing I want to you think is that you bought the wrong sub! As mentioned, if the sound is pleasing to you, the patrons, the crowd, and management, then you're winning. The EONS are pretty linear down to 55 Hz. It would be nice to have a sub that can be dialed down to 60 Hz or so. But as engineers say, "You either raise the bridge or lower the river."

Here are some further recommendations for your setup:
  • Leave the High cut on the sub at 70 dB
  • Place the sub off center to the Mains and the wall behind it, if there is one. Never center your sub on stage. Also, never place any speaker in a corner.
  • If there is a wall behind the sub, keep the sub off that wall by at least one foot or about one-third of a meter
  • Turn down the Bass controls that feed the two EONS from your mixer. If you can force the EONS to only reproduce frequencies down to about 65 Hz, you'll hear a huge difference.
That's about it for now, Abby. Give these further ideas another try. I may have some other suggestions. Please send me the model number of your Yamaha mixer. I may be able to offer further adjustments at the source. Wish I could be there to work on this with you!! We'd have a lot of fun. Thanks...

- Lee
Current Gear: Genos, SoundCraft mixer, two Bose L1 Compacts, 15 inch sub designed and built by myself, Yamaha HS8 studio monitors, Cubase 8 Artist, Steinberg UR-44.
 

Offline travlin-easy

Re: My Genos Froze.
« Reply #84 on: May 22, 2019, 03:29:55 PM »
Abby, When MarkZ made that statement about Kaarlo, I sent Mark a PM and informed his this would not be tolerated. Apparently, he did not get the message.

Gary 8)
Love Those Yammies...
 
The following users thanked this post: Kaarlo von Freymann

Offline Pianoman

Re: My Genos Froze.
« Reply #85 on: May 22, 2019, 07:15:29 PM »
Hello Gary.

You're a "Gent" as the English would say.
Mind you, wasn't flinging accusations in every direction.
I knew that there would be responsible people like yourself or Mike
who wouldn't let that kind of behaviour stand.

I'm enjoying a night off tonight and getting ready to treat my wife to
a nice Italian dinner.

Best Regards.
Abby.

If everybody is thinking alike, then somebody isn't thinking.

George S. Patton Jr.


Welcome To My YouTube Videos.
https://m.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLJo1iW9nz1GWzeg1QBl-1wVx14CDWlBqx
 

Offline beykock

Re: My Genos Froze.
« Reply #86 on: May 22, 2019, 07:26:18 PM »
Enjoy your evening, Abby !😁

Babette
NO BUSINESS LIKE SHOW BUSINESS
 

Offline Pianoman

Re: My Genos Froze.
« Reply #87 on: May 22, 2019, 07:37:33 PM »
Hi Abby,

I just went through your speaker specs. I was very curious to know the dB level of the Boost circuitry. The bass is boosted by 10 dB at the selected frequency, with a Q value = 1!! This means, if you turn the Boost on, the chosen frequency is boosted to twice the perceived volume. I would reserve that setting for outdoors only.

According to the spec sheet, your Mains respond from 55 Hz to 16,000 Hz. Your sub has a usable frequency range of 45 Hz to 150 Hz. The specs also mention that the sub can reproduce frequencies down to 32 Hz, but that's at -10dB. This means the sub is really only effective down to 45 Hz and maybe a little lower. Bass guitar notes in the low range will sound okay but a lot of the lower harmonics that give the bass a warm sound will be missing. Perhaps you hear this too? Worse, is the fact that a lot of the bass notes are being reproduced by all three speakers, which can create issues. You're probably achieving a decent sound but I question whether the Behringer is a good match with the EONS, especially at 42 kg. The last thing I want to you think is that you bought the wrong sub! As mentioned, if the sound is pleasing to you, the patrons, the crowd, and management, then you're winning. The EONS are pretty linear down to 55 Hz. It would be nice to have a sub that can be dialed down to 60 Hz or so. But as engineers say, "You either raise the bridge or lower the river."

Here are some further recommendations for your setup:
  • Leave the High cut on the sub at 70 dB
  • Place the sub off center to the Mains and the wall behind it, if there is one. Never center your sub on stage. Also, never place any speaker in a corner.
  • If there is a wall behind the sub, keep the sub off that wall by at least one foot or about one-third of a meter
  • Turn down the Bass controls that feed the two EONS from your mixer. If you can force the EONS to only reproduce frequencies down to about 65 Hz, you'll hear a huge difference.
That's about it for now, Abby. Give these further ideas another try. I may have some other suggestions. Please send me the model number of your Yamaha mixer. I may be able to offer further adjustments at the source. Wish I could be there to work on this with you!! We'd have a lot of fun. Thanks...

- Lee

Hello Lee.
First off, I  would like to say a big thank you for your help.

This is a great analysis, and I will definitely try out all the ideas that you suggested.
A lot of the things you wrote make sense to me now and provide me a with better
understanding  about the Sub and it's relation to the mains.

I probably did buy the wrong Subwoofer. It was recommended by a friend who
uses one, but in combination with 12 inch QSC active mains and a Soundcraft
mixer.

Anyway, here is the information on my Yamaha EMX 5016CF Powered mixer.
I hope it is helpful.

You'll have to scroll down to page 35 for the technical specifications.

Best Regards.
Abby.


If everybody is thinking alike, then somebody isn't thinking.

George S. Patton Jr.


Welcome To My YouTube Videos.
https://m.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLJo1iW9nz1GWzeg1QBl-1wVx14CDWlBqx
 

Offline Pianoman

Re: My Genos Froze.
« Reply #88 on: May 22, 2019, 07:48:53 PM »
Enjoy your evening, Abby !😁

Babette

Thank you Babette .

As you said in your post above, one of the penalties of being a pro gigging musician
is that it's not easy on the family.

So I always try to treat my wife to a nice evening out when I'm free.
Or I cook her a nice dinner if she prefers to stay at home.

Best Regards.
Abby.
If everybody is thinking alike, then somebody isn't thinking.

George S. Patton Jr.


Welcome To My YouTube Videos.
https://m.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLJo1iW9nz1GWzeg1QBl-1wVx14CDWlBqx
 

Offline panos

Re: My Genos Froze.
« Reply #89 on: May 22, 2019, 09:18:19 PM »
Abby,
You have applied EQ  settings for each voices and every part of the style individually.
You have applied master EQ settings for your keyboard.
You have an equalizer to connect your two organ.
and you have a subwoofer with some EQ settings on it.

These all four different EQ settings affect the SAME frequencies of a sound.
(apart from the subwoofer which affects only the low frequencies as we know)

Lets say now that you lower the frequency of 440hz which is the middle A note to the style parts with the use of an effect.
The same frequency of 440hz you have boost it  with your master keyboard settings.
The same frequency you have lower it down again with your Equalizer equipment besides you.
And let's say that there are too many objects in the venue that react to the frequency of 440hz so they boost it again.

How is this frequency will sound in the end? boosted or not?

With one EQ setting (part settings) we boost a sound with the other EQ (master settings) we feel it is too boosted so we want to lower it down again,so why did we have boosted it in the first place?

This is how I understand the hard part with the sound,the EQ settings AND the effects we choose.Too many parameters  :(

With your Tyros over the years you have found the EQ settings that worked fine in most cases.
Genos as any other instrument can do it also but it will take you time to find out the settings that work for you.


As John has called me on Mark's thread:
"The clown with the accordion"
This is our way as friends in this forum to deal with stuff we don't like. 
We are here to learn how we can improve our playing and the usage of all the functions our keyboards provide us and this is what this forum it is for.  :)
« Last Edit: May 22, 2019, 09:20:18 PM by panos »
 

Re: My Genos Froze.
« Reply #90 on: May 22, 2019, 09:28:12 PM »
Glad to help, Abby! Dinner? What time would you like us all there? We'll need an address and directions :)! Should we bring wine, dessert...?

Excellent points, Panos. The EQ settings inside the Genos should be set fairly flat. As Panos writes, you don't want too many EQ settings in the signal chain fighting with one another. The EQ Gold settings may not be appropriate. Abby, did you specify your Genos Master EQ and compression settings? If not, please do so. Thanks for the Yamaha mixer PDF. I'll give a look.
Current Gear: Genos, SoundCraft mixer, two Bose L1 Compacts, 15 inch sub designed and built by myself, Yamaha HS8 studio monitors, Cubase 8 Artist, Steinberg UR-44.
 

Re: My Genos Froze.
« Reply #91 on: May 22, 2019, 09:40:33 PM »
Just looking at the mixer PDF, Abby.

Are you feeding the sub with a signal that is unaffected by the Master EQ on the mixer? Do you feed the sub through the Aux 1 or 2 output jacks? If so, try pulling back the 63 Hz band on the Master EQ all the way (-12 dB). This should prevent any frequencies lower than 63 Hz from reaching your Mains. You want a way to only let the Mains play from about 90 Hz and above. Everything below 90 Hz can be played by the sub. If I'm right, the result should be an even better bass definition.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2019, 09:42:59 PM by Lee Batchelor »
Current Gear: Genos, SoundCraft mixer, two Bose L1 Compacts, 15 inch sub designed and built by myself, Yamaha HS8 studio monitors, Cubase 8 Artist, Steinberg UR-44.
 

Offline Pianoman

Re: My Genos Froze.
« Reply #92 on: May 23, 2019, 12:02:12 AM »
Hello Lee.

Dinner was great and the wife loved it.

I normally leave the individual channel EQ settings to unity or neutral, I'm never sure
about the name.

The piano has it's own onboard EQ so I leave it at neutral too.
The same goes for the Microphone though I often lower the low frequency by
about 20%.

I sometimes raise the three highest frequencies on the digital EQ of the mixer by
1,2, and 3 Decibels, from the third last to the last, respectively.

I use Natural Compression and either modified Bright EQ settings or slightly modified
Lee Batchelor settings, depending on the room.

I'm attaching two examples of the EQ settings.
I don't know why one of the pictures is upside down.

Best Regards.
Abby.
« Last Edit: May 23, 2019, 12:06:42 AM by Pianoman »
If everybody is thinking alike, then somebody isn't thinking.

George S. Patton Jr.


Welcome To My YouTube Videos.
https://m.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLJo1iW9nz1GWzeg1QBl-1wVx14CDWlBqx
 

Re: My Genos Froze.
« Reply #93 on: May 23, 2019, 01:39:24 PM »
Hi Abby,

Yes, dinner must have been good. I could smell it all the way over here, just east of Toronto, Ontario (LOL) ;D! Next time, a little more garlic please :).

The Bright settings are fine, but the EQ Lee & Me settings are also fine and won't interfere with bass sounds you are trying to clean up. The EQ Lee & Me setting boosts the overall midrange, in particular, the vocal area. These frequencies make up the bulk of what we hear on well-produced CDs and are very carefully watched by the recording studio techs. I don't see that you need to change anything on the Genos. The slight boost in the mixer digital EQ is fine too. You may encounter some feedback if you push beyond 3 dB. You'll know it. Give my previous ideas a try - especially the cut on the mixer at 65 Hz. Let us know. Thanks...

- Lee
Current Gear: Genos, SoundCraft mixer, two Bose L1 Compacts, 15 inch sub designed and built by myself, Yamaha HS8 studio monitors, Cubase 8 Artist, Steinberg UR-44.
 

Offline Pianoman

Re: My Genos Froze.
« Reply #94 on: May 23, 2019, 02:51:38 PM »
Hello Lee.
Thanks for your response and clarifications.

I will try out your recommendations tomorrow and let you know.
I'll be playing tonight, but only on the hotel's grand piano for an hour.

I'll just take my mixer and PA system with me though I don't think that there
will be any singing.

It's a wedding reception in the hotel bar, and they just want background music
for an hour.

Then they'll go downstairs to the Discotheque for the rest of their business.

Best Regards.
Abby.
« Last Edit: May 23, 2019, 02:52:53 PM by Pianoman »
If everybody is thinking alike, then somebody isn't thinking.

George S. Patton Jr.


Welcome To My YouTube Videos.
https://m.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLJo1iW9nz1GWzeg1QBl-1wVx14CDWlBqx
 

Offline DonM

Re: My Genos Froze.
« Reply #95 on: May 23, 2019, 07:36:48 PM »
This is not going to be popular, but when you boost EVERY band of e.q., you are basically turning the volume up and possible adding noise.
Most real experts advise cutting some bands if necessary and SLIGHTLY boosting some if needed.  If you are boosting any band more than five or six decibels, something else is wrong.
And be careful of using both the keyboards internal e.q. and also the mixer e.q.  It's easy to over boost bands that way.  I usually e.q. the keyboard from the internal settings and leave the mixer flat for the keyboard. 
You can use the mixer e.q. for vocals or other things plugged directly into it.
Also, those of us who have been doing this a LONG time have generally lost some high frequency hearing, so it is very tempting to overdo the high end and make it to shrill for the audience.  Guilty here, especially as the night goes on and hearing changes, and you are tempted to make e.q. changes.  I never touch the e.q. during the evening unless something feeds back, which is extremely rare with the speakers and setup I use, even though my ears may be telling me to twist knobs.
Over the years many of us became accustomed to using, and hearing, the infamous "V" e.q. setting, where highs and lows are boosted and mids cut.  That may have been necessary "back then", but the modern p.a. systems and other gear are better and reproduce sounds more naturally. 
A top sound man once was asked how he e.q.d a band and he said, "I ask myself if I can clearly hear the bass, hear the guitar, hear the drums and all other instruments, make adjustments as necessary, and then leave it alone!"
E.Q. --- a little bit goes a long way. 

Re: My Genos Froze.
« Reply #96 on: May 23, 2019, 10:55:46 PM »
Actually, Don - you're 100 percent correct.

The only reason I boost in that range on my Genos is to enhance the same area the studio producers do when finalizing a CD. My Soundcraft mixer runs flat all the time for the Genos channels. I roll the bass back a bit for my two singers because they have very warm voices in the lower range - almost too much if that's possible :).

Good advice, my friend.
Current Gear: Genos, SoundCraft mixer, two Bose L1 Compacts, 15 inch sub designed and built by myself, Yamaha HS8 studio monitors, Cubase 8 Artist, Steinberg UR-44.
 

Offline Pianoman

Re: My Genos Froze.
« Reply #97 on: May 23, 2019, 11:38:26 PM »
No EQ worries tonight.

I got back from the gig an hour ago.

I just pushed out the Grand piano that you see in the picture above , and tinkled
for an hour or so, took my 300 Euros and came home.

No Keyboards, EPs, or Subwoofer.
I just took the JBLs and mixer, but sang about 6 songs.
The rest of the hour was just background piano.

Best Regards.
Abby.
If everybody is thinking alike, then somebody isn't thinking.

George S. Patton Jr.


Welcome To My YouTube Videos.
https://m.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLJo1iW9nz1GWzeg1QBl-1wVx14CDWlBqx
 

Re: My Genos Froze.
« Reply #98 on: May 24, 2019, 12:02:07 AM »
Those gigs are gold, Abby! Good for you my friend. I just may hop a plane and come over to hear you play. Mind if I join you on the piano?
Current Gear: Genos, SoundCraft mixer, two Bose L1 Compacts, 15 inch sub designed and built by myself, Yamaha HS8 studio monitors, Cubase 8 Artist, Steinberg UR-44.
 

Offline travlin-easy

Re: My Genos Froze.
« Reply #99 on: May 24, 2019, 12:14:06 AM »
Lee, I had serious thoughts of doing this, hopping on a jet and heading for Ibiza. However, turns out there are some problems packing a portable oxygen generator on a plane these days. Plus, recharging them in some nations would be out of the question.

Also thought about sailing my sailboat there, but I'm just too damned old to cross the Atlantic on a 33-foot sailing yacht. The trip takes about 3 weeks under ideal conditions, too much for this old fart. :)

Good luck,

Gary 8)
Love Those Yammies...