Author Topic: Gradual tempo increase: how to do it?  (Read 766 times)

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Offline Tonny

Gradual tempo increase: how to do it?
« on: May 10, 2019, 09:10:36 PM »
I have a couple of songs that require the tempo to gradually increase. Think of Greek sirtaki style or some traditional Russian folksongs that start slow, and get faster and faster as the song progresses.

Does anyone know how to do that on a Genos? For fade-out and fade-in you can prolong the fade-time. Is there something similar for tempo? I have not found it.

I currently solve it by storing increasing tempo's in successive registrations that I step through in registration sequence. But that does not really give a smooth result.
Ideas welcome !

Regards

Tonny

Offline pmedina

Re: Gradual tempo increase: how to do it?
« Reply #1 on: May 11, 2019, 02:19:41 AM »
I would like to solve the same think in my PSR S950. Is it possible?
 

Offline Fred Smith

Re: Gradual tempo increase: how to do it?
« Reply #2 on: May 11, 2019, 02:38:17 AM »
I have a couple of songs that require the tempo to gradually increase. Think of Greek sirtaki style or some traditional Russian folksongs that start slow, and get faster and faster as the song progresses.

Does anyone know how to do that on a Genos? For fade-out and fade-in you can prolong the fade-time. Is there something similar for tempo? I have not found it.

I currently solve it by storing increasing tempo's in successive registrations that I step through in registration sequence. But that does not really give a smooth result.
Ideas welcome !

There was a long thread on this within the last year. The bottom line was use registrations.

Cheers,
Fred
Fred Smith,
Saskatoon, SK
Sun Lakes, AZ
Genos, Bose L1 compacts, Finale 2015
Check out my Registration Lessons
 

Offline Murat

Re: Gradual tempo increase: how to do it?
« Reply #3 on: May 11, 2019, 01:18:39 PM »
I also would like an easy access to tempo increase. On Roland and Korg keyboards the main wheel is set by defult for controlling the tempo, if no window is open. How can I assign the main wheel to control only the tempo (not having to open the tempo window and use the wheel to change tempo)? If I would like to use the wheel for other things I can change it manually. The little two tempo buttons doesn't really help me much; the wheel would be the solution for me for the question Tonny asked as I also play similar songs and have the same issue.

Offline tyrosaurus

Re: Gradual tempo increase: how to do it?
« Reply #4 on: May 11, 2019, 03:21:08 PM »
On Genos you can assign Master Tempo to a slider or knob, if you think that they are easier to use than the tempo buttons.


Regards

Ian
 

Offline jwyvern

Re: Gradual tempo increase: how to do it?
« Reply #5 on: May 11, 2019, 04:02:39 PM »
I have assigned one of the knobs to Tempo on Genos. I find It quite useful and more user friendly than tempo buttons for creating registration setups. If the small screen happens to have switched to a different knob or slider display it will conveniently jump back the screen you need when the tempo knob is used.
I don't do "Live" but I'm not sure about using it during a live performance because of the tendency for the tempo to jump around before it becomes "calibrated" to a particular song setup. You would need to calibrate it every time you change Song for the occasions you want it I guess.
John
« Last Edit: May 11, 2019, 04:07:59 PM by jwyvern »
 

Offline Fred Smith

Re: Gradual tempo increase: how to do it?
« Reply #6 on: May 11, 2019, 04:24:52 PM »
I have assigned one of the knobs to Tempo on Genos. I find It quite useful and more user friendly than tempo buttons for creating registration setups. If the small screen happens to have switched to a different knob or slider display it will conveniently jump back the screen you need when the tempo knob is used.
I don't do "Live" but I'm not sure about using it during a live performance because of the tendency for the tempo to jump around before it becomes "calibrated" to a particular song setup. You would need to calibrate it every time you change Song for the occasions you want it I guess.
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The knobs are useful, but being able to assign a function to the wheel would be even better.

Cheers,
Fred
Fred Smith,
Saskatoon, SK
Sun Lakes, AZ
Genos, Bose L1 compacts, Finale 2015
Check out my Registration Lessons
 

Offline jwyvern

Re: Gradual tempo increase: how to do it?
« Reply #7 on: May 12, 2019, 08:12:45 AM »
The knobs are useful, but being able to assign a function to the wheel would be even better.

Cheers,
Fred

It can be done, if you get the Tempo window displayed on screen the wheel can be used to dial in tempo changes. But you'd need to get in the habit while playing of pushing a tempo button once first to bring up that pop up display or touch Tempo on the main screen if you have Tempo assigned on display, say in the Home screen. You can extend the pop up to Hold which will help, although if at any time you cause the main screen display to refresh the pop up will disappear (until Tempo is touched again) .


John
« Last Edit: May 12, 2019, 08:41:04 AM by jwyvern »
 

Offline andyg

Re: Gradual tempo increase: how to do it?
« Reply #8 on: May 12, 2019, 10:35:26 AM »
We're going over old ground again! I'm not going to re-open the arguments about whether or not the knobs, sliders, wheel or even volume pedal are precise enough.

If you're creating registrations for a song, then use as many as you like. There is no limit whatsoever. If you feel that the tempo jumps are too obvious, then simply use more registrations. My students will think nothing of using eight or more registrations for a change of tempo. You simply daisy-chain all your registration banks together with the Registration Sequence parameters set so that the footswitch changes banks at the end of a given bank's sequence. It takes time and thought, but where's the problem in that? You then know that all your tempo changes are going to be absolutely accurate, every time, and you don't need to take your hand(s) away from the keys.
It's not what you play, it's not how you play. It's the fact that you're playing that counts.

www.andrew-gilbert.com
 

Offline valimaties

Re: Gradual tempo increase: how to do it?
« Reply #9 on: May 12, 2019, 06:41:05 PM »
We're going over old ground again! I'm not going to re-open the arguments about whether or not the knobs, sliders, wheel or even volume pedal are precise enough.

If you're creating registrations for a song, then use as many as you like. There is no limit whatsoever. If you feel that the tempo jumps are too obvious, then simply use more registrations. My students will think nothing of using eight or more registrations for a change of tempo. You simply daisy-chain all your registration banks together with the Registration Sequence parameters set so that the footswitch changes banks at the end of a given bank's sequence. It takes time and thought, but where's the problem in that? You then know that all your tempo changes are going to be absolutely accurate, every time, and you don't need to take your hand(s) away from the keys.

I found this approach veeeeerrrry difficult. It's my opinion, in my type of playing live gigs...
I better write a tempo changing in a variation of style, using Cubase, and drawing a tempo line between those measures (1-x). After the measures ending, I change to next variation in style. The new variation will have the new tempo assigned. So it is easy than mills of registrations, and pedals, and registration sequence, and whatever... I don't think there are more than 32 measures along tempo changing values :)

Regards,
Vali
______________________________________________
All the best, from Romania

Vali Maties - Genos
 

Offline andyg

Re: Gradual tempo increase: how to do it?
« Reply #10 on: May 13, 2019, 01:41:56 PM »
Difficult when playing live? Not at all! I do it all the time, and so do my students. Time and thought, as I said earlier, when you create your registrations, is all that's needed.

And not everyone has Cubase, or a DAW, or the skills to play around with styles in the way you describe. I do have those skills and I still wouldn't do it that way.

Each to their own.
It's not what you play, it's not how you play. It's the fact that you're playing that counts.

www.andrew-gilbert.com
 

Offline Fred Smith

Re: Gradual tempo increase: how to do it?
« Reply #11 on: May 13, 2019, 02:40:21 PM »
I found this approach veeeeerrrry difficult. It's my opinion, in my type of playing live gigs...
I better write a tempo changing in a variation of style, using Cubase, and drawing a tempo line between those measures (1-x). After the measures ending, I change to next variation in style. The new variation will have the new tempo assigned. So it is easy than mills of registrations, and pedals, and registration sequence, and whatever... I don't think there are more than 32 measures along tempo changing values :)

Vali, you're missing the boat here.

There's nothing easier than pressing the pedal to change a registration. It's easier than selecting a new variation, adjusting the tempo wheel, or anything else.

And no matter how many "mills" of registrations you have, setting them up is easier than modifying a style, regardless of what software you use.

As Andy said, to each their own, but you really should give it a try before you're so dismissive about it.

Cheers,
Fred
Fred Smith,
Saskatoon, SK
Sun Lakes, AZ
Genos, Bose L1 compacts, Finale 2015
Check out my Registration Lessons
 

Offline Normanfernandez

Re: Gradual tempo increase: how to do it?
« Reply #12 on: May 13, 2019, 05:50:35 PM »
My friend, and other members,
I'll create a Style with a custom tempo increase...

I totally agree, it's much easier to do it with Registrations.

But maybe this custom one could help.


I'll post it here
( Any style will be used)
Regards Norman!
« Last Edit: May 13, 2019, 06:28:00 PM by Normanfernandez »
 

Offline Murat

Re: Gradual tempo increase: how to do it?
« Reply #13 on: May 13, 2019, 08:42:42 PM »
The main wheel is the proper way of doing this.  I think the registration solution (definitely not the proper way) is suggested just because the normal wheel way is not possible with the Genos (not possible quick enough). I do hope the update in June will rectify this shortcoming.

Offline jwyvern

Re: Gradual tempo increase: how to do it?
« Reply #14 on: May 13, 2019, 10:05:17 PM »
The main wheel is the proper way of doing this.  I think the registration solution (definitely not the proper way) is suggested just because the normal wheel way is not possible with the Genos (not possible quick enough). I do hope the update in June will rectify this shortcoming.

I'm sure the wheel can be quick enough (see my earlier post on the subject) and technically it should be accurate without jumps.
The main  difficulty and possible reason for not using it (as with any manual method using judgement) would IMO be with the player's accuracy and concentration, ie. keeping an  eye where the tempo has been steered to and judging its "correctness" over a lengthy transition while trying at the same time not to lose the ball on the rest of the playing.  :)
John
« Last Edit: May 13, 2019, 10:20:11 PM by jwyvern »
 

Offline valimaties

Re: Gradual tempo increase: how to do it?
« Reply #15 on: May 14, 2019, 06:48:13 AM »
Vali, you're missing the boat here.

There's nothing easier than pressing the pedal to change a registration. It's easier than selecting a new variation, adjusting the tempo wheel, or anything else.

And no matter how many "mills" of registrations you have, setting them up is easier than modifying a style, regardless of what software you use.

As Andy said, to each their own, but you really should give it a try before you're so dismissive about it.

Cheers,
Fred

Fred, I don't missing any boat...
For me is more simple to modify the style. And this is the right approach. Because you can copy ONLY the style and play it in any keyboard you want (Genos or other compatible).
I see the problem even in my situation as I use only one registration per song, not a bank or more...
So, I stay on my decision, and I knew that this approach is better for me. Definitely not for you or others which uses registrations as "a lot" for a song...


PS: A simple way for me can be a complicate way for others and vice versa ;)
Regards,
Vali
« Last Edit: May 14, 2019, 06:51:51 AM by valimaties »
______________________________________________
All the best, from Romania

Vali Maties - Genos