Author Topic: Genos EQ settings for Bose L1  (Read 3583 times)

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Offline johnnyb

Genos EQ settings for Bose L1
« on: May 13, 2019, 01:12:18 AM »
Hello everybody

I've never posted before bur , was wondering if anyone can give me some advice?

I have recently traded my Black tyros 4 in for a new Genos.
It sounds great through the Yamaha speakers but , when I put it through my Bose L1 pa is doesn't sound anywhere near as good , I believe it could be the Compressor and eq settings so , I was just wondering if anyone knew of some decent " Ballpark " settings that could get me there ??

Thanks in advance

John
 
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Re: Genos EQ settings for Bose L1
« Reply #1 on: May 13, 2019, 03:08:16 AM »
when I put it through my Bose L1 pa is doesn't sound anywhere near as good

Can you describe this is more detail, John? Is the high end not as clear and crisp as it should be? Too much bass, not enough bass? Etc.
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Offline Bill H

Re: Genos EQ settings for Bose L1
« Reply #2 on: May 13, 2019, 04:00:44 AM »
In the world of sound reinforcement, Yamaha speakers would be classified as "near-field" speakers, meaning your ears are closely coupled (in close proximity) with the speakers and are thus able to detect quite small nuances of the sound. Headphones provide this coupling to an even greater degree - that's one reason they sound so darn good.

When going through PA systems, the sound from your keyboard doesn't change, but your perception of it now includes PA amplification and equalization, speaker characteristics, room acoustics, etc. In short, you're no longer close coupled and are missing the sound quality that you get from near-field speakers. Every component in teh audio chani (which is now much longer) has an effect on the sound quality.

With PA systems, the solution is usually painstaking care with choice of speakers, speaker placement and room treatments (live room vs dead room, etc.), and a boat-load of time getting the EQ right...

PS: I know this is very simplified, but it should serve as an introduction to the six million things that affect quality sound reinforcement...)

PPS: I know whereof I speak because I almost always play with good quality Bose headphones that let me hear everything, and I'm always disappointed by the amount of work needed to get even close to what I'm used to hearing when using external sound reinforcement...

Edit: PPPS: This might help get you started: https://www.teachmeaudio.com/mixing/techniques/audio-spectrum/
« Last Edit: May 13, 2019, 04:08:41 AM by Bill H »
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Offline PierreSW

Re: Genos EQ settings for Bose L1
« Reply #3 on: May 13, 2019, 07:57:43 AM »
Hey!
I had the same problem, bad sound.
Try these settings.
That was the solution for me.
// Pierre
YAMAHA Genos, YAMAHA MFC10, Bose L1 II-pa,Mixer T1 ToneMatch, ZUM STEEL.
 
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Re: Genos EQ settings for Bose L1
« Reply #4 on: May 13, 2019, 12:55:14 PM »
Welcome aboard, John! I use the Bose L1 Compacts. Are you using one or two? The Yamaha mono outputs are dreadfully behind the times. I've had nine Yamaha keyboards and pianos. Not one of them sounded any good in mono. You must run in stereo.

I use Pierre's ED Gold settings, and the sound is great at all levels. One exception, I don't boost the 32 Hz EQ that much. That is like playing a sub-frequency note at over twice the volume!! Unless you're using a subwoofer, the boost at that frequency is meaningless. The Bose L1 Compacts roll off very quickly at 65 Hz. If you are using a subwoofer, be very careful - you'll kill people :)!
« Last Edit: May 13, 2019, 12:59:23 PM by Lee Batchelor »
Current Gear: Genos, SoundCraft mixer, two Bose L1 Compacts, 15 inch sub designed and built by myself, Yamaha HS8 studio monitors, Cubase 8 Artist, Steinberg UR-44.
 

Offline johnnyb

Re: Genos EQ settings for Bose L1
« Reply #5 on: May 14, 2019, 02:21:50 PM »
Hello Everybody ,

Thanks so much for all the replies. I run in Mono  but put the left and right inputs into the T1 mixer.
It's the bass I find overpowering , the kick drum especially , it seems to be way too loud. I boost the treble a bit on the Genos and that gets the treble right but , I cant tame the bass without losing the warmth of the keyboard.

Thanks For All Your Help :)
 

Re: Genos EQ settings for Bose L1
« Reply #6 on: May 14, 2019, 02:46:32 PM »
Agreed about the bass, John. You can turn the bass track down in the Genos mixer and then save the Registration. I find the kick drum way too punchy in most styles when played over decent speakers. To fix it, I route the kick and toms through Sub 1 to a separate mixer channel. That way, I can adjust how loud they are.

Running the L/R channels into the T1 mixer is not the same a using two dedicated speakers for stereo. You still can't pan each channel Left and Right. Electronically, you're playing the Left and Right channels but acoustically the sound is still "imaged" in mono :(.
Current Gear: Genos, SoundCraft mixer, two Bose L1 Compacts, 15 inch sub designed and built by myself, Yamaha HS8 studio monitors, Cubase 8 Artist, Steinberg UR-44.
 

Offline johnnyb

Re: Genos EQ settings for Bose L1
« Reply #7 on: May 14, 2019, 03:11:03 PM »
Yes , it's the bass that's the problem. I play a lot for ballroom and sequence dancing and the bass in those styles is way over the top. I think it's the acoustic bass and the bass drum in " Popkit 1 " that's on the A0 note.
I edit them in the style recording menu and save the style as a user style.
I often wonder about the person who mixed the styles , surely he didn't listen to the Rhumba 2 style and think that sounded right ??

Thanks for your help. I will persevere.....
 

Offline DerekA

Re: Genos EQ settings for Bose L1
« Reply #8 on: May 14, 2019, 03:59:12 PM »
I'm sure you know this, but if you're modifying the style you can EQ just the bass part and, using drum setup, you can attenuate individual drum sounds as well.
« Last Edit: May 14, 2019, 04:00:14 PM by DerekA »
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Offline Pianoman

Re: Genos EQ settings for Bose L1
« Reply #9 on: May 15, 2019, 01:59:39 PM »
I advise a lot of care when using the EQ Gold settings, maybe introducing
a few modifications.

I blew the 15 inch woofer on one of my main JBLs last night.
It was at the beginning of my gig and I was playing gentle Bossa Nova
at a reasonably soft volume.

I finished the rest of the evening totally embarrassed, as this was in a
quite posh 5* hotel.

Best Regards.
Abby.
« Last Edit: May 15, 2019, 02:06:54 PM by Pianoman »
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Offline johnnyb

Re: Genos EQ settings for Bose L1
« Reply #10 on: May 15, 2019, 02:05:52 PM »
Yes I can understand how that happened. I seem to shake my windows when I'm at home but , it's not too loud !!
It's taming the bass but still keeping everything warmish that is the problem.
I have no Idea how the Yamaha demonstrators do it , it's just a shame they won't tell us !!
 

Re: Genos EQ settings for Bose L1
« Reply #11 on: May 15, 2019, 02:07:09 PM »
I advise a lot of care when using the EQ Gold settings.
I blew the 15 inch woofer on one of my JBLs last night.
It was at the beginning of my gig as I was playing gentle Bossa Nova at a quite soft volume.
Did you have the 32 Hz setting at 12 dB? That's totally wrong. A while ago, someone posted their reason for making the 32 Hz setting so high: to get more bass from the Genos speakers. That is totally the wrong way to do that!

When you consider that an open E string on a bass guitar is around 44 Hz, 32 Hz is heading toward an octave lower, which is basically "rumble." There is a point (around 30 Hz) where the bass is merely felt and not heard. The EQ Gold settings work well, but whoever decided to bump the 32 Hz setting to that level, is dead wrong. In fact, even with the best subwoofers, you don't bump that frequency by that much. The only time you would bump 32 Hz by perhaps 3 dB is for explosion effects in big theatres or outdoor venues like Disneyland.
« Last Edit: May 15, 2019, 02:13:43 PM by Lee Batchelor »
Current Gear: Genos, SoundCraft mixer, two Bose L1 Compacts, 15 inch sub designed and built by myself, Yamaha HS8 studio monitors, Cubase 8 Artist, Steinberg UR-44.
 

Offline Pianoman

Re: Genos EQ settings for Bose L1
« Reply #12 on: May 15, 2019, 02:29:47 PM »
Did you have the 32 Hz setting at 12 dB? That's totally wrong. A while ago, someone posted their reason for making the 32 Hz setting so high: to get more bass from the Genos speakers. That is totally the wrong way to do that!

Hello Lee.

Yes that was with the 32Hz at 12 dB.

Since the Genos only gives one the possibility of 2 user settings, I have your settings
( with the middle gain lowered slightly) and the EQ Gold settings.

Your settings work better for me, but I had been using the EQ Gold while at home,
while practising with headphones.

I just forgot to switch back to my Lee Batchelor settings at the start of my gig.
I had also been experimenting with the Punchy Compression at home, and again
forgot to switch back to Natural Compression settings.

I had left home a bit late and didn't have time to run my pre gig sound and settings check.
I normally set up my stuff, do a check, then go into the performers' locker room to change into a
a smoking suit for the gig.

I have borrowed an identical speaker from a friend for the rest of the week.
I'll now have to buy a new set though, as JBL doesn't sell my model anymore.

The last time I blew a woofer was in 2008, and it costed me 275 Euros to get it repaired.
Plus 2 weeks of waiting.

They're selling powered JBL Eon615s for 400 Euros each here.
So I think I'll get a pair of those.

Best Regards.
Abby.
« Last Edit: May 15, 2019, 02:33:40 PM by Pianoman »
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Re: Genos EQ settings for Bose L1
« Reply #13 on: May 15, 2019, 02:50:25 PM »
Sounds good, Abby. I hear the Eons are great speakers.

We almost need to put a system-wide alert out about that 32 Hz setting. I know of no headphones capable of producing the 32 Hz frequency, hence, most users are unaware of the danger and tend to ignore it.

The JBL 15 inch driver you blew tried to reproduce that frequency, but the voice coil was likely overdriven in the process and tore the spider or surround ring. You may be able to see the torn surround ring. Otherwise, gently push on the cone and you'll likely hear a grinding sound. If the cone won't move at all, the voice coil is displaced from the magnet.
Current Gear: Genos, SoundCraft mixer, two Bose L1 Compacts, 15 inch sub designed and built by myself, Yamaha HS8 studio monitors, Cubase 8 Artist, Steinberg UR-44.
 

Offline Pianoman

Re: Genos EQ settings for Bose L1
« Reply #14 on: May 15, 2019, 05:46:09 PM »
Thanks for your response and advice Lee.

Like I said, I always used your settings.
It was just momentary forgetfulness.  I had to set up and start in a big hurry.
They're very strict about punctuality in the hotel.

I'll open the speaker tomorrow morning and look to see what can be done.
But maybe I should just take it to a repair shop.
With the season in full swing here in Ibiza though, it will be a long wait till the
repair shop can find the necessary parts.

I guess the quickest solution is just to get a pair  of new ones.

This year has started badly for me.
First I had to get a new powered mixer, then the Genos, and now new speakers.

I'll take this opportunity to again urge caution with the above mentioned settings.
Maybe modifying them a little, to reduce load on the speakers.

Lee, I was wondering a while back if you have any preference regarding compressor
settings?

Best Regards.
Abby.
If everybody is thinking alike, then somebody isn't thinking.

George S. Patton Jr.


Welcome To My YouTube Videos.
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Re: Genos EQ settings for Bose L1
« Reply #15 on: May 15, 2019, 06:28:07 PM »
Hi Abby,

I use the Natural setting. With it, you still have the punchy drum lines and the subtleties of the slower tunes.
Current Gear: Genos, SoundCraft mixer, two Bose L1 Compacts, 15 inch sub designed and built by myself, Yamaha HS8 studio monitors, Cubase 8 Artist, Steinberg UR-44.
 

Offline johnnyb

Re: Genos EQ settings for Bose L1
« Reply #16 on: May 16, 2019, 12:38:20 AM »
Lee , What EQ settings do you use with the natural compression.
I hope you don't mind me asking

John
 

Offline johnnyb

Re: Genos EQ settings for Bose L1
« Reply #17 on: May 16, 2019, 12:40:13 AM »
Sorry Lee , I've just read you post further up about Pierre's settings

John
 

Re: Genos EQ settings for Bose L1
« Reply #18 on: May 16, 2019, 02:49:00 AM »
No worries, John. My Genos is packed at the moment, but I'll set it up and look at all my settings - just in case I've messed around with them since. I have to practice for a show this weekend anyway.

Lee
Current Gear: Genos, SoundCraft mixer, two Bose L1 Compacts, 15 inch sub designed and built by myself, Yamaha HS8 studio monitors, Cubase 8 Artist, Steinberg UR-44.
 

Offline JohnH

Re: Genos EQ settings for Bose L1
« Reply #19 on: May 16, 2019, 08:37:37 PM »
LEE---Where or what is EQ--GOLD ??------I have a Genos--with a Bose LT1-----What are all your settings ??--------THANKS !!-----------JohnH from North Carolina
 

Offline EileenL

Re: Genos EQ settings for Bose L1
« Reply #20 on: May 16, 2019, 08:55:57 PM »
EQ Gold Settings are produced by Leigh Wilbraham from Sound Packs in the UK.

Re: Genos EQ settings for Bose L1
« Reply #21 on: May 17, 2019, 02:06:48 AM »
Thanks for clarifying that, Eileen.

Here are my current EQ Gold settings. They are different from those originally posted. I altered them to better match the frequency response of the Bose L1 Compact speakers. To determine these settings, I assumed a linear frequency response from the Bose. I graphed the settings in the attached picture so I could see the effect of those changes. To do this, I used the parametric EQ graph function from my Behringer power amp. This is the amp I use to power the homemade subwoofer that I use with my two Bose Compacts for larger gigs.

I made an error about my compressor settings. I now use the Rich setting.

Current Gear: Genos, SoundCraft mixer, two Bose L1 Compacts, 15 inch sub designed and built by myself, Yamaha HS8 studio monitors, Cubase 8 Artist, Steinberg UR-44.
 
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