Author Topic: Mixing two styles?  (Read 3731 times)

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Offline Murat

Mixing two styles?
« on: April 26, 2019, 04:56:38 PM »
Hello all,

I would like to create a style by mixing two existing styles but they will have different time signatures; for example Main Variation A could be 4/4 and B could be 3/4; this is just an example. The speed of each Variation I think I can adjust using Style creator? Is this all posible to do on the Genos?

Thanks

Online Normanfernandez

Re: Mixing two styles?
« Reply #1 on: April 26, 2019, 05:17:23 PM »
I think it's possible on Style Creator.

Under Basic Section
We have Pattern length and Time Signature.
Set A to 4/4 and B to 3/4.

If I remember correctly I think it will work   
Regards Norman!
 

Offline melokeyz

Re: Mixing two styles?
« Reply #2 on: April 26, 2019, 06:29:36 PM »
Sure, it's possible.

Each variation has it's own pattern length, tempo, and signature. There are times you need the song to slows down from a higher tempo. I created styles with variations that have different tempo. I am sure this will work with time signatures as well.
 

Offline Murat

Re: Mixing two styles?
« Reply #3 on: April 26, 2019, 08:02:11 PM »
Hello all,

I would like to create a style by mixing two existing styles but they will have different time signatures; for example Main Variation A could be 4/4 and B could be 3/4; this is just an example.  Is this all posible to do on the Genos?

Thanks

Thank you for the replies but can I mix two existing styles as I explained above?

Online Normanfernandez

Re: Mixing two styles?
« Reply #4 on: April 27, 2019, 03:20:39 AM »
Thank you for the replies but can I mix two existing styles as I explained above?

You can.
But not in the Same Variation.
 

Offline Murat

Re: Mixing two styles?
« Reply #5 on: April 27, 2019, 08:28:18 AM »
How can I mix two existing styles in a way that I keep Var A from one style and and keep Var B from the other (assuming they have different time signature - although this might not have anything to do with how to mix the styles)?

Offline Wim NL

Re: Mixing two styles?
« Reply #6 on: April 27, 2019, 09:13:50 AM »
Mixing two different timesignature in one style is not posable.
Best Regards,
Wim
 

Offline Murat

Re: Mixing two styles?
« Reply #7 on: April 30, 2019, 11:53:43 AM »
Ok, thank you all. If any new ideas please let me know.

Offline Fred Smith

Re: Mixing two styles?
« Reply #8 on: April 30, 2019, 01:40:02 PM »
Ok, thank you all. If any new ideas please let me know.

Use a registration.  Much simpler.

Cheers,
Fred
Fred Smith,
Saskatoon, SK
Sun Lakes, AZ
Genos, Bose L1 compacts, Finale 2015
Check out my Registration Lessons
 

Offline andyg

Re: Mixing two styles?
« Reply #9 on: April 30, 2019, 01:50:26 PM »
That's the way I'd do it. I encourage people to use more than one style in a tune. You need to make sure that the tempos match (unless deliberately wanting a change) and it's best to keep the drum kit and bass sounds constant throughout. Easily done in the mixer and saved as part of the registrations.

No need to make a custom style, unless you really want to use that style often. And of course, it's possible to play mix and match with parts of different styles in Style Creator if you need to do this.
It's not what you play, it's not how you play. It's the fact that you're playing that counts.

www.andrew-gilbert.com
 
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Offline Murat

Re: Mixing two styles?
« Reply #10 on: April 30, 2019, 02:12:33 PM »

Thank you, all.

Hi Andy,
And of course, it's possible to play mix and match with parts of different styles in Style Creator if you need to do this.
You said I could mix and match parts of different styles in Style Creator. This could be what I am looking for. Have you come across a tutorial explaining how to do this? Or Is it something easy enough to explain here?
The Style Creator would be ideal (if I knew how to use it properly), I could adjust the speed, drum sets etc for various parts and save it as a new style).

Thanks.

Offline mikf

Re: Mixing two styles?
« Reply #11 on: April 30, 2019, 02:40:57 PM »
 Click on the top right where it says 'PSR Tutorial Home' and then follow the links to find a whole range of tutorials. The function you are looking for is called style assembly - ie where you take parts fro one style and substitute them in another.
Mike
 
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Offline panos

Re: Mixing two styles?
« Reply #12 on: April 30, 2019, 03:19:35 PM »
One video I found with genos
https://youtu.be/mi9BfAcD05M

I don't know if this function works with different time signatures or tempo in a style.
I never saw one so I doubt that Geno's works differently.
So if it doesn't work also on genos you have to use registrations as Fred said.
In that case reg button 1 will play style no 1 (3/4) and reg button no 2 will play style no2 (4/4).
I never test something with different time signatures but I guess it will work.
Same with a tempo change.

Offline mikf

Re: Mixing two styles?
« Reply #13 on: April 30, 2019, 06:37:59 PM »
I think it already explains earlier in this thread that you cannot mix time signatures in the same style. You can assemble - basically paste - style parts from different styles into a style, but unless they have the same  time signature and length (ie number of bars) this will not work properly.
You can also set the default setting on the keyboard to maintain tempo when styles are changed without stopping the style, instead of going to the default set tempo of the next style. This allows you to change styles seamlessly in the same song, just as you can change variations within the same style.
Mike
 

Offline Murat

Re: Mixing two styles?
« Reply #14 on: May 02, 2019, 03:15:12 PM »
Hello all, good afternoon,

I have tried to mix existing two styles. As demonstrated in the videos etc it does work but only if they have the same time signature. This is all as expected.

However, when mixing (basically copying all parts in to say Variation B) two styles that have different time signatures, the Genos does not recognise the time signature change. So it doesn’t work.

I would welcome any solutions to this if anyone have one? I think it is possible to create a new style from scratch and setting the time signatures different for different variations.

Please let me repeat; I am not trying to mix different time signatures within one variation, obviously it won’t work. I want different time signatures on different Variations; for example, Var A 3/4 and Var B 4/4. 

Ps. I have already noted the Registration solution, but this is not what I’d like to do. I am using the Registrations for my favourite sounds.



Offline EileenL

Re: Mixing two styles?
« Reply #15 on: May 02, 2019, 03:21:17 PM »
As has been said you can not mix different time signatures in one style.

Offline mikf

Re: Mixing two styles?
« Reply #16 on: May 02, 2019, 04:25:24 PM »
A ‘single style‘ is all variations not a single variation. And you cannot mix different time signatures in a single style. You can do it with registrations, or you can just select a different style while playing. Just select a style the pull the other style up on the screen but don’t actually select it until you are ready to start it. No harder than pushing a variation button.
Mike
 

Offline andyg

Re: Mixing two styles?
« Reply #17 on: May 02, 2019, 09:00:09 PM »
I have already noted the Registration solution, but this is not what I’d like to do. I am using the Registrations for my favourite sounds.

You will have to use registrations if you want to switch time signatures within a piece, for the reasons given, ie. you cannot mix time signatures in a style. Registrations are not just for sounds, but for styles, balance, fingering modes, multipads and more. Just about everything, basically!
It's not what you play, it's not how you play. It's the fact that you're playing that counts.

www.andrew-gilbert.com
 

Offline stephenm52

Re: Mixing two styles?
« Reply #18 on: May 04, 2019, 02:04:13 PM »
My 2 cents, I share the opinion of those who already posted “use registrations.”
GENOS, Clavinova CVP 307, SX900, Korg Pa4x-76

Steve's Genos Recordings

Steve's Gig Disks
 

Offline Murat

Re: Mixing two styles?
« Reply #19 on: May 05, 2019, 10:35:25 AM »

I have found a style with mixed time signatures. I have attached it for your perusal - Var 1 and Var 2 are Waltz and Var 3 and Var 4 are Polka. Tried it and it works. So the question remains, how do we produce a style of mixed time signatures (again - different time signtures in different variations). I think there are two options to get this done: Create a style from scratch or use an external software. And apperantly it is not possible to create a new mixed time signature style by mixing two existing styles on the Genos itself.

Offline Wim NL

Re: Mixing two styles?
« Reply #20 on: May 05, 2019, 11:12:31 AM »
The style is still 4/4.
There is a way to merge a 3/4 with a 4/4 but you have to modify the style after.

Use style assembly to merge a 3/4 style to the 4/4.

Use http://www.jososoft.dk/yamaha/software/sands/index.htm to split the style in a midi part and a non midi (nmi) part

Use a DAW to modify the 3/4 part.
The 3/4 has to be as long as the 4/4 in time.
So you have to strecht it 4/3 times as also the tempo for the 3/4 part.
Then when finisch use the program "split the style" again to merge the midi part and the other nmi part togeteher.

Or try http://www.jososoft.dk/yamaha/software/stytime/index.htm to skip the strech part.
make from the 3/4 style the to be var (var C) 4/4 and save the style.
Now use assembly on the Genos the assembly the 3/4 into the 4/4 style.

You have now a 3/4 style variation in a 4/4 style, but the timesignature still wil be 4/4.
Best Regards,
Wim
 

Offline YammyFan

Re: Mixing two styles?
« Reply #21 on: May 06, 2019, 06:48:31 AM »
I always use two different styles for every song  I play. Quite often I use 4/4 for each verse and 3/4 for the chorus  or vice versa.
As I am NOT playing music for people to dance to ,  I won't get anyone's feet tangled up.
 If I want to play "Waltzing Matilda" I put a style which sounds pretty good to me into  Registration Button Number 1 and then put another style which sounds pretty good to me into Registration Button Number 2
This gives me  8 variations to use when I am playing "Waltzing Matilda",  instantly  accessible by pressing  Registration Buttons Number 1 and Registration Button Number 2
I don't worry about tempo as often a chorus will sound great if it is played slower  [or faster] than the verse.
 Then, if I want to lock in an arrangement for another song  for eg." I'm Dreaming Of a White Christmas," I lock what I think are appropriate styles into Registration Buttons Number 3 & 4.
I own stacks of sheet music, and I quite often find that a particular song is published in 3/4 by one publisher and 4/4 by another publisher,  Interestingly, I own 4 different copies of "Waltzing Matilda" and they are all in 4/4
I also was interested to find out that many of the Hymns are in 3/4  {Waltz] and I always thought that Churches were solemn places.
I have never made up a style [sounds like hard work to me] I use ready made styles I find on the PSR Tutorial site, and the only change I make to them is to sometimes lock in a different tempo.
I  find that many songs are boring if I only play them using one Style.
 

Offline YammyFan

Re: Mixing two styles?
« Reply #22 on: May 06, 2019, 07:57:49 AM »
Me Again [Yammyfan]. Actually, I don't think that the dancers would get their feet tangled up. The reason I think this is because my right hand will be playing the tune and it will therefore override the style. The style is the orchestral backing. In other words, " I believe that  heaps of waltz styles  can be used to play 4/4 tunes, and heaps of 4/4 styles can be used if you want to play a waltz.
Is this a revolutionary statement, or have other members been doing this for years?
 

Offline panos

Re: Mixing two styles?
« Reply #23 on: May 06, 2019, 11:16:09 AM »
I think the the sheet is a sheet no matter how you want to write it in 4/4,3/4,6/8 for the same song.

The actual rhythm of a song is another thing,I believe.
I wouldn't concider something as a valse/waltz if it has not a 3/4 rhythm.
A melody could be played in a different rhythm and still sounded ok?
Yes it could.Not that good as the original rhythm though.

Sometimes I see people on youtube follow the sheet and pick a style with the same rhythm as the sheet indicates and I don't agree to tell you the truth, although I am still trying to understand music theory.
I am stuck trying to read 1/16 notes for more than 15 years now ;D

« Last Edit: May 06, 2019, 11:17:27 AM by panos »
 

Offline mikf

Re: Mixing two styles?
« Reply #24 on: May 07, 2019, 07:08:46 PM »
I believe that  heaps of waltz styles  can be used to play 4/4 tunes, and heaps of 4/4 styles can be used if you want to play a waltz.
This is not correct. You can re phrase a tune that was originally written in 3/4 as a 4/4 an and vice versa. But once you do this it then becomes 3/4  or 4/4 regardless of how it was originally written. In fact what you are doing is re phrasing the melody and not playing it as written, to fit the backing - exactly opposite of what you said.  This kind of re setting of a song has been done many times , and there are even some cases where the new setting became more popular than the original way it was written.
I can play for example White Christmas perfectly well as a waltz, by stretching and shortening notes. And nobody gets their feet in a tangle, because it now is a waltz, and no longer 4/4. 
Mike
 
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Offline Fred Smith

Re: Mixing two styles?
« Reply #25 on: May 08, 2019, 03:40:59 AM »
This is not correct. You can re phrase a tune that was originally written in 3/4 as a 4/4 an and vice versa. But once you do this it then becomes 3/4  or 4/4 regardless of how it was originally written. In fact what you are doing is re phrasing the melody and not playing it as written, to fit the backing - exactly opposite of what you said.  This kind of re setting of a song has been done many times , and there are even some cases where the new setting became more popular than the original way it was written.
I can play for example White Christmas perfectly well as a waltz, by stretching and shortening notes. And nobody gets their feet in a tangle, because it now is a waltz, and no longer 4/4. 

Good explanation, Mike. Certainly us dancers will go by the beat of the style, not what the right hand is playing.

Although, as an aside, it is really annoying to dancers when the melody (ie, singer) doesn't stay on the beat. Dancing's hard enough without having to fight the melody line.

Back to your topic, I think Somewhere My Love from Dr. Zhivago is the best example of a song which was originally written as 4/4, but is more popular as a waltz. But when you use a 3/4 beat, it's a waltz, regardless of what the original was.

Cheers,
Fred
Fred Smith,
Saskatoon, SK
Sun Lakes, AZ
Genos, Bose L1 compacts, Finale 2015
Check out my Registration Lessons