Author Topic: LSB Bank for Dummies  (Read 1024 times)

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Offline elad770

LSB Bank for Dummies
« on: February 17, 2019, 06:11:41 PM »
Hi Everyone,
I've recently purchased styles from Styles2psr
I received a very professionally made Pack along with an immediate communication from the seller asking if I need any assistance.  The Seller also sent me a very detailed email explaining how to install the Packs.
He directed me to Modify the LSB bank (which I have no idea what it is :-[) the directions were simple to follow and it went smoothly.

I wanted to ask if someone can kindly explain what is LSB bank ? If you can specifically answer my subquetions in your answer that will be lovely:

1. Why it's so important to change ?
2. Do I need to do that every time I install Every pack?
3. When do I know that something is wrong with the LSB settings?
4. I have a pack I recieved from someone (Turkish pack) I suspect it requires LSB change because the styles are not calling for the sounds and drum kits in the pack. How and where do I see that? Is the information in the style ? Or the creator have the LSB number that only he knows?
5. Upon trying to modify one pack (let's say the creator stated to place it at 088) I see that this slot is already taken. What do i do in such case?

Thank you guys
 

Offline Bachus

Re: LSB Bank for Dummies
« Reply #1 on: February 17, 2019, 08:20:15 PM »

Just some midi basics..

Every sound has 3 numbers
MSB 0-127
LSB 0-127
And program change..  0-127

These 3 numbers make every sound unique..
Yamaha uses these midi bank and program changes also for all internal sounds..

When you use Yem, every new sound gets its own number...
When you select a sound, you actually send an LSB and MSB bank change and a program change
Yamaha still uses the XG specs to my knowledge, in which banks MSB 63 and 62 are used for internal sounds...i think XG reserves 60 to 63 MSB banks for internal sounds.   

The LSB, is mostly handled by Yemm..  all yamaha expansion packs use the same numbers on all Genos and tyros instruments for compatibillity between packs.. 
Keyszone.boards.net for all the latest keyboard news and information.
 

Offline Styles2psr

Re: LSB Bank for Dummies
« Reply #2 on: February 17, 2019, 10:59:14 PM »
Hi Elad,

I'm not an expert when it comes to the MSB and LSB Bank change, but i will try to answer your questions.


1. Why it's so important to change ?
It's not necessary, but sometimes if the Expansion Pack contains styles they could be muted because of different LSB Bank change.


2. Do I need to do that every time I install Every pack?
Again, if the Expansion Pack doesn't contain any styles it doesn't matter what LSB slot it has.


3. When do I know that something is wrong with the LSB settings?

See answer 1 above, if you have issues with silent styles just move to another empty value.


4. I have a pack I recieved from someone (Turkish pack) I suspect it requires LSB change because the styles are not calling for the sounds and drum kits in the pack. How and where do I see that? Is the information in the style ? Or the creator have the LSB number that only he knows?

I think you can't, unless the creator doesn't gives you the information, but sometimes it's enough to move the Expansion to another value.


5. Upon trying to modify one pack (let's say the creator stated to place it at 088) I see that this slot is already taken. What do i do in such case?

Drag and drop to another value.

When you create an Expansion Pack with new Voices and Styles.
For example i always start with the voices, and then move the LSB to an empty value (I'm usually always select i higher value just to be sure that no one else use the same as me).
So later on when i'm adding the styles to the Expansion, which i have created on my keyboard, they will automatically play correct.
But if you purchase a ppf-file from someone else than Yamaha, and you import it into YEM, the LSB is going to change to another value.

Note: Yamahas own Expansions has a fixed/locked value you can't move, but i'm not 100 percent sure.

Yamaha should have changed this LSB issue for a long time ago, with an update that gives you an option to choose a specific LSB value and lock it, but at the same time to have an option to change it with a message box telling you that this value are already used.



You can show MSB, LSB and PG# on your Keyboard, if you turn it on in the settings. The combination is the way to select any voices in the key.
In short LSB is more like a bank slot to keep all the voice information in your keyboard.

Regards, Jan.

« Last Edit: February 18, 2019, 07:22:39 AM by Styles2psr »
 

Offline valimaties

Re: LSB Bank for Dummies
« Reply #3 on: February 18, 2019, 09:43:42 AM »
..
2. Do I need to do that every time I install Every pack?
Again, if the Expansion Pack doesn't contain any styles it doesn't matter what LSB slot it has.

...
Regards, Jan.

Hi!
Really?! Let's say your pack does not contain any style, but I use one of your voice in a custom style (or factory, doesn't matter). What happens if I change the LSB (position of expansion pack) of your pack?! :D (style is not in your expansion pack)

Regards
Vali
______________________________________________
All the best, from Romania

Vali Maties - Genos
 

Offline Styles2psr

Re: LSB Bank for Dummies
« Reply #4 on: February 18, 2019, 12:23:14 PM »
Hi!
Really?! Let's say your pack does not contain any style, but I use one of your voice in a custom style (or factory, doesn't matter). What happens if I change the LSB (position of expansion pack) of your pack?! :D (style is not in your expansion pack)

Regards
Vali



I guess your keyboard could eventually explode into a million pieces.  :P
Like i said before i'm not so familiar with the LSB, so it's up to everyone to try and fail.
It's a shame that Yamaha haven't found a better solution.  :(

Regards, Jan.

Offline valimaties

Re: LSB Bank for Dummies
« Reply #5 on: February 18, 2019, 12:38:41 PM »


I guess your keyboard could eventually explode into a million pieces.  :P
Like i said before i'm not so familiar with the LSB, so it's up to everyone to try and fail.
It's a shame that Yamaha haven't found a better solution.  :(

Regards, Jan.

Jan, sorry if my post bothers you, surely you misunderstood.
It is not only Yamaha. All keyboards uses MSB-LSB-PC system. it's midi implementation since 1996 (LINK)... So, let's not blame Yamaha. :)

Sorry again!

Best regards,
Vali
______________________________________________
All the best, from Romania

Vali Maties - Genos
 

Offline Styles2psr

Re: LSB Bank for Dummies
« Reply #6 on: February 18, 2019, 01:08:06 PM »
Jan, sorry if my post bothers you, surely you misunderstood.
It is not only Yamaha. All keyboards uses MSB-LSB-PC system. it's midi implementation since 1996 (LINK)... So, let's not blame Yamaha. :)

Sorry again!

Best regards,
Vali


What are you sorry for ?.. I was just kidding with you, so don't make it to a big deal.
Do you ever read?, i said clearly that Iím not so familiar with LSB.
Who should we blame? Ourselves?

Have a great day everyone.

Regards, Jan.

Offline Bachus

Re: LSB Bank for Dummies
« Reply #7 on: February 18, 2019, 07:29:48 PM »
Jan, sorry if my post bothers you, surely you misunderstood.
It is not only Yamaha. All keyboards uses MSB-LSB-PC system. it's midi implementation since 1996 (LINK)... So, let's not blame Yamaha. :)

Sorry again!

Best regards,
Vali

The difference is, yamaha also uses this to adres internal voices..
I beleive korg translates the external midi calls trough a table to their internal sound system..

What Yamaha did was build the whole internals of their arrangers around the XG midi standard, thats a step beyound what others do..
Keyszone.boards.net for all the latest keyboard news and information.
 

Offline valimaties

Re: LSB Bank for Dummies
« Reply #8 on: February 19, 2019, 09:05:23 PM »
The difference is, yamaha also uses this to adres internal voices..
I beleive korg translates the external midi calls trough a table to their internal sound system..

What Yamaha did was build the whole internals of their arrangers around the XG midi standard, thats a step beyound what others do..

I don't know if Korg did this, but I asure you Yamaha did this.
Example: One voice, in two expansion packs, have the same MSB-LSB-PC (practically, the same voice). But you select (in style channel, or midi file, or voice part) that voice from one of those packs pack. How Yamaha knows which was the pack, if they did not "translate" position of voice to as they call "panel voice"?! ;)
What I write here, is that ALL voices are stored in memory to MSB-LSB-PC addresses. How a brand managed to call them, is another discussion, another thread.
But if we want to work with voices, YEM especially, we have to know that MSB for custom voices and drums are 62 and 63, the LSB (the position of pack voices/drums in our memory bank) 0-127, and PC is the position of the voice in a pack, 0-127(shown in keyboards as 1-128).
These are the minimum requirement knowledge ;)

PS: I don't know if Korg did this, because as we know right now, Korg uses only ONE pack (set) loaded at a time. Daniel Andronescu (from Romania) made a little tweak to last but one OS'es (he is part of Korg team), and create a partition to load the second SET into memory, for PA4X. Which means they can use now maximum 2 SETs. 
Really?! We can use 128 (LSBs - 0 to 127) packs. Which one is the won?! :D (to this chapter)

We have to agree Yamaha misses only functions of Korg (editing voices and styles), but the possibilities of loading multiple packs, are definitely a won for Yamaha.


Regards,
Vali
______________________________________________
All the best, from Romania

Vali Maties - Genos