Author Topic: Fading a MIDI channel  (Read 4176 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Floodie

Fading a MIDI channel
« on: January 29, 2019, 12:52:13 AM »
I have an existing midi file. I would like to edit channels, to fade out at the end of the song. How can I record changes to the volume of individual channels without modifying the note data? I am using Genos Multi Record. Can this only be done manually using Step Edit?
 

Offline Ed B

Re: Fading a MIDI channel
« Reply #1 on: January 29, 2019, 03:14:07 AM »
Hi
You can do this in MixMaster which you can download below:
http://psrtutorial.com/MB/mixMaster.html
Rergards
Ed B
Keep on learning
 

Offline overover

Re: Fading a MIDI channel
« Reply #2 on: January 29, 2019, 06:30:06 AM »
Hi Floodie,

yes, open your file in MixMaster and click "List View" button.

Scroll down the event list completely and write down the "MBT" of the LAST event of the file.

Click "Other" tab (on the right) and then "Process Events" button.

Click on drop-down list "Process Events ..." and select "Fade Expression In/Out Custom".

A window "Command Input" appears. Leave the option button at "Out" and set the "Ending Time" (= measure of the last event in your file) and the "Starting Time" (some measures before) to define the Fade Out length.

Click OK. Save the file by clicking "Save As" button. Use a new/altered file name (not to overwrite your original file).


P.S.
You can also use "Fade Expression In/Out" (without the word "Custom"). Here you only have to set the measure when the Fade Out should BEGIN. Fade Out a will take six (6) measures here, automatically.


Hope this helps!

Best regards.
Chris
« Last Edit: January 29, 2019, 06:44:54 AM by overover »
 

Offline Floodie

Re: Fading a MIDI channel
« Reply #3 on: January 29, 2019, 09:24:39 PM »
Thanks Guys,

I am looking for the best way to do it using the Genos MIDI Multi Recorder. My computers are Linux.

Example: Fade Channel 1 out at end of song.

I could use Step Edit and enter the Volume data data manually. I also think I could copy and paste existing volume data from another channel if suitable.

I thought there might be a way to play the recorded channel and apply Volume changes in real time using the Mixer. Can I record channel 1 note data, then play it back while recording only volume data?

 

Offline tyrosaurus

Re: Fading a MIDI channel
« Reply #4 on: January 29, 2019, 11:30:38 PM »
I don't have a Genos but the following seems to work on my Tyros4, and Genos seems to have similar functions.

You could try using the 'Mix' function on the bottom of the Genos 'MIDI Multi Recording' page, after recording the volume changes for your fade in real time to an empty channel while the channel that you want to fade is playing for reference.  Of course you won't hear the original channel fade at this point!

However for anything to be recorded on a channel there must be at least one note event on it, so you must include at least one note on the 'volume event' channel!  You can delete it later, so you might want to make it an obvious discordant note to help you locate it later.

The volume events are inserted as CC7 Volume so do not change the MIDI velocities of individual notes. This means that if you want to, you can later filter the event list to show only CC7 event, and easily delete them all, effectively removing the 'fade'.

Once you manage to get a channel recorded with the volume changes (plus of course, a note), you could then use the 'Mix' function on the bottom of the Genos 'MIDI Multi Recording' page.

This allows you to mix together two 'source' channel to a third 'Destination' channel.

All events from the channel that you set for Source 1 are copied to the mix, but only the note events from the Source 2 channel are copied.

So if you want to apply a fade to notes on channel 1, you would set this as Source 2 for the mixing. The 'volume event' channel should be set as Source 1.

After mixing the two channels you should have the notes from original channel 1, combined with the volume fade from it's own channel.

The Mixed channel will also contain the required note from the volume fade channel, which you can now locate in Step Recorder and delete.

Finally once you are happy with the results, you can 'Delete' channel 1 and the volume event channel, 'Copy' the mixed channel to channel 1, and finally 'Delete' the volume event channel, using the functions on the bottom of the Genos 'MIDI Multi Recording' page.

You can read about the 'Mix', 'Copy' and 'Delete' functions in the section: 'Editing Channel Events of Existing Song Data', starting on page 74 of the downloadable 'Genos Reference Manual'


Regards

Ian
« Last Edit: January 30, 2019, 12:13:26 AM by tyrosaurus »
 
The following users thanked this post: Floodie

Offline Floodie

Re: Fading a MIDI channel
« Reply #5 on: January 30, 2019, 02:49:35 PM »
Thanks again,

I understand how to add Control Parameters in Step Edit, including the copy, paste and mix functions.

Please add this to Future Wish List

MIDI Multi Record
When I select RECORD for any particular channel, I am offered a choice of 'Record Note Data' or 'Record Control Parameters'.
I could Record Note Data, and then Record Control Data over top of it, (using the mixer), while listening in real time.
 

Offline overover

Re: Fading a MIDI channel
« Reply #6 on: January 30, 2019, 04:38:00 PM »
... My computers are Linux. ...

Hi Floodie,

you could use "VirtualBox" on a Linux computer and install a virtual Windows 7 (32 bit) inside VirtualBox. Then you can use most of the MIDI Tools made for Windows. :)
 
The following users thanked this post: Floodie

Offline Floodie

Re: Fading a MIDI channel
« Reply #7 on: January 30, 2019, 05:33:11 PM »
I'm ok with using Step Edit and the Mixing function.

Question: Using only Genos Multi Recorder, is there a way to import/copy/paste a single midi channel from one song to another?

I'm wondering if I can make Song Templates containing 16 various Control Parameter Changes. Anytime I want to fade a channel, I could import a fade Control Parameter Template and Mix it.

 
 

Online Fred Smith

Re: Fading a MIDI channel
« Reply #8 on: January 30, 2019, 06:16:20 PM »
I'm ok with using Step Edit and the Mixing function.

Question: Using only Genos Multi Recorder, is there a way to import/copy/paste a single midi channel from one song to another?

I'm wondering if I can make Song Templates containing 16 various Control Parameter Changes. Anytime I want to fade a channel, I could import a fade Control Parameter Template and Mix it.

I don't believer there is a "fade control parameter". Pressing the Fade button produces a series of decreasing velocities which generates the fade.

Cheers,
Fred
Fred Smith,
Saskatoon, SK
Sun Lakes, AZ
Genos, Bose L1 compacts, Finale 2015
Check out my Registration Lessons
 

Offline pjd

Re: Fading a MIDI channel
« Reply #9 on: January 30, 2019, 07:04:45 PM »
From the "lost lore" department...

The Yamaha XG Format Music Data Production Recommendations (1995) say:

To fade a song in or out, use Control Change #11 (Expression) or the universal system exclusive message MIDI Master Volume (F0H, 7FH, 7FH, 04H, 01H, llH, mmH, F7H). Note that MIDI Master Volume changes the relative values of all parts simultaneously.

Also, when Variation Connection is SYS, parts which use a Variation effect may not fade correctly. In this case, use the effect parameter change Variation Return (F0H, 43H, 10H, 4CH, 02H, 01H, 56H, ddH, F7H) in conjunction with the MIDI Master Volume message.


CC#7 channel volume is kind of big knob at the beginning of a Part which sets the overall Part level.

-- pj
 

Offline SeaGtGruff

Re: Fading a MIDI channel
« Reply #10 on: January 30, 2019, 07:10:42 PM »
To fade a song in or out, use Control Change #11 (Expression) or the universal system exclusive message MIDI Master Volume (F0H, 7FH, 7FH, 04H, 01H, llH, mmH, F7H). Note that MIDI Master Volume changes the relative values of all parts simultaneously.

I just mentioned the “Master Volume” message in another thread, then I read this thread and see that you mentioned it at about the same time! :)
Michael Rideout
Current keyboards: Yamaha YPT-400, PSR-E433, PSR-E443, PSR-EW400, MX49 BK
Current controllers: M-Audio Axiom 61-II
Previous keyboards: Farfisa Matador 611; Casio CTK-710
 

Offline tyrosaurus

Re: Fading a MIDI channel
« Reply #11 on: January 30, 2019, 07:31:39 PM »
Hi pj,

Whatever the XG Recommendations say,  if you record something in the keyboard MIDI recorder and press the fade button during the recording, the song will fade out and this will be included in the recording.

If you now examine the events in the recorded channels on the '1-16' edit page in Song Creator, you will find a series of CC7 (volume) events which the 'fade process' inserted!   There is no sign of multiple CC11 events throughout the fade period, and of course, the individual note velocities are not changed!

At least that is what happens on my Tyros4!

Maybe Yamaha haven't read their own specifications!   ::)


Regards

Ian
 

Offline SeaGtGruff

Re: Fading a MIDI channel
« Reply #12 on: January 30, 2019, 10:23:15 PM »
Either Channel Volume or Channel Expression can be used, obviously. My understanding is that Volume is normally used to set the overall volume of a channel, and is then left alone, whereas Expression is used for temporarily varying the volume of a channel. I guess the reasoning for using Expression to fade the tracks at the end of a song is that it's a "permanent" change since you won't be increasing the volume again afterward? Unless it's instead related to the specific physical controls that are being used to fade the tracks, and more to the point whichever Continuous Controller number has been mapped to those physical controls?
Michael Rideout
Current keyboards: Yamaha YPT-400, PSR-E433, PSR-E443, PSR-EW400, MX49 BK
Current controllers: M-Audio Axiom 61-II
Previous keyboards: Farfisa Matador 611; Casio CTK-710
 

Offline pjd

Re: Fading a MIDI channel
« Reply #13 on: January 31, 2019, 02:33:56 PM »
Maybe Yamaha haven't read their own specifications!   ::)

Hi Ian --

Well, I guess it's "recommendation" vs. "specification."  :D  :D  :D

Anyway, thanks for posting what the T4 actually records. Funny though, most of the Yamaha XG files from Musicsoft use CC#11 expression for fade out. Both methods should work.

All the best -- pj

 

Offline valimaties

Re: Fading a MIDI channel
« Reply #14 on: January 31, 2019, 03:17:58 PM »
Personally, I would use the quickest job, and this is VirtualBox installed on Linux PC, install MixMaster, and let it do the job (and other jobs is intended to do for styles and midi files :) ). Also, with this installation you will gain time in the future ;)
Sometimes, for jobs which does not need to be rushed, you could use PC instead of keyboard, even if you can do with your keyboard but with more steps than PC.

Regards,
Vali
______________________________________________
Genos 2.0, Allen & Heath SQ5
My youtube channel - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCzi9PPrMTjN8_zX9P9kelxg

Vali Maties - Genos
 

Offline Floodie

Re: Fading a MIDI channel
« Reply #15 on: February 02, 2019, 09:24:36 PM »
I've been MIDI'd IN and OUT since 1988. It's been a lot of fun, but now I'm THRU...  It's time to cut the cord, threes a crowd. Just myself and Genosella. I was hoping that Multi Record could actively record new control changes over previously recorded note data. Since Step Edit is now my One and Only, (noting my agenda), I'm looking for ideas to help make our relationship work. There have been a couple of good suggestions.  Thank You