Author Topic: What can be recorded in MIDI Song mode?  (Read 577 times)

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Offline a1gene

What can be recorded in MIDI Song mode?
« on: November 21, 2018, 11:49:21 PM »
Hi! Rank newbie here. I'm trying to figure out exactly what can be recorded when I multitrack MIDI record on the Genos. I imagine I'm looking for what most people who will also use the keyboard for live performance want. Namely, the ability to play a part with each hand and have everything else recorded. Can button presses on the keyboard panel be recorded during the recording of a song? I'd particularly like the MIDI recording to be able to turn the keyboard parts, L, R1, R2, and R3, off and on at various points. How does ACMP when playing left hand live interact with recorded ACMP in a MIDI song file? Can 1 of the 16 tracks be allocated to Sys Ex messages generated when adjusting parameters during recording? If not, can Sys Ex be inserted after recording? Is there a Sys Ex implementation chart available somewhere? Thanks for your help!

Soon-to-be Genos Expert
(well, maybe not that soon)
 

Offline Fred Smith

Re: What can be recorded in MIDI Song mode?
« Reply #1 on: November 22, 2018, 12:17:03 AM »
Hi! Rank newbie here. I'm trying to figure out exactly what can be recorded when I multitrack MIDI record on the Genos. I imagine I'm looking for what most people who will also use the keyboard for live performance want. Namely, the ability to play a part with each hand and have everything else recorded. Can button presses on the keyboard panel be recorded during the recording of a song? I'd particularly like the MIDI recording to be able to turn the keyboard parts, L, R1, R2, and R3, off and on at various points. How does ACMP when playing left hand live interact with recorded ACMP in a MIDI song file? Can 1 of the 16 tracks be allocated to Sys Ex messages generated when adjusting parameters during recording? If not, can Sys Ex be inserted after recording? Is there a Sys Ex implementation chart available somewhere? Thanks for your help!

If you are "looking for what most people ... want", then you need to look into registrations. They remember voices, styles, tempo, transposition, vocal harmony, etc.

And they are a lot easier to create than midi files.

Cheers,
Fred
Fred Smith,
Saskatoon, SK
Sun Lakes, AZ
Genos, Bose L1 compacts, Finale 2015
Check out my Registration Lessons
 

Offline DerekA

Re: What can be recorded in MIDI Song mode?
« Reply #2 on: November 22, 2018, 11:55:10 AM »
Most people will not use MIDI files to change the state of the keyboard as it plays back in the way you describe.
Tyros5
 

Offline EileenL

Re: What can be recorded in MIDI Song mode?
« Reply #3 on: November 22, 2018, 12:26:01 PM »
As Fred said registrations are the way to go. You can set up all you want to do with these.

Offline panos

Re: What can be recorded in MIDI Song mode?
« Reply #4 on: November 22, 2018, 01:32:35 PM »
When you record a midi file on a Yamaha keyboard,you record these things:

Channel 1   :   Right 1
Channel 2   :   Left
Channel 3   :   Right 2
Channel 4   :   Right 23 
Channel 5   :   Multi Pad 1
Channel 6   :   Multi Pad 2
Channel 7   :   Multi Pad 3
Channel 8   :   Multi Pad 4
Channel 9   :   Rhythm 1
Channel 10 :   Rhythm 2
Channel 11 :   Bass
Channel 12 :   Chord 1
Channel 13 :   Chord 2
Channel 14 :   Pad
Channel 15 :   Phrase 1
Channel 16 -   Phrase 2

When you have done with your recording and save the song,in the Song Creator function you have the ability to modify/delete/add notes,parts,effects etc.
Go to Song Creator for that.
You can modify each of the 16 channels individually.

When you play back a midi file you better have the ACMP button OFF if you want to play (lets's say) only the melody with your hands.
So in that case you have to delete(or mute) just the melody line(or lines) of the midi you want to play live with.

Playing midi and playing a style are two different things so better not to mix those two.
But you can hear how the midi changes (and is a feature that I like  ;D) if you press song play and then style play.
Each time you choose a different style while the midi song is playing the midi song uses the style's 8 parts(RHY1+2,BASS,CH1+2,PAD,PHR1+2) and the song sounds like another version.
 
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Offline Toril S

Re: What can be recorded in MIDI Song mode?
« Reply #5 on: November 22, 2018, 04:26:37 PM »
Yes, this is really fun to do!
Toril S

Tyros 5, PSR S970, PSR 2100 and PSR-47.

Toril's PSR Performer Page
 

Offline a1gene

Re: What can be recorded in MIDI Song mode?
« Reply #6 on: November 23, 2018, 05:10:44 PM »
Thanks for your help, everyone! I haven't had a lot of time to play with the Genos yet, but this coming week I'll really get a chance. (Rank newbie was referring to that) I have a lot of experience with MIDI files, but very little with Yamaha keyboard operating systems, other than the DX7, so I haven't figured out how things like registrations, one touch settings, styles, accompaniments and recorded songs interact with each other. It seems convoluted, so far. Some people like to play more on-the-fly, I guess, and the Genos seems well-suited to that. Once I really learn the instrument, I'm hoping to be able to play a song (less the parts I want to play live) I've recorded from start to finish, without variation and without any button presses whatsoever, having everything (voices, breaks, fills, intros, extros) change automatically at the proper times. That would let me concentrate on live playing and not on manipulating the keyboard. I'd like to be able to play live, both left hand and right hand independently, while the song track is playing back, without having the left hand interfering with or changing any accompaniment previously recorded. I've done this kind of MIDI play-along thing before, but never with a single keyboard. I currently use Cakewalk SONAR as a Computer DAW, which I'll probably be replacing soon, too, since it's been discontinued. Something else to learn, yay! Again, thanks for your help. I'll be trying your suggestions before asking any more (what I hope will be intelligent) questions!
 

Offline pjd

Re: What can be recorded in MIDI Song mode?
« Reply #7 on: November 23, 2018, 08:34:54 PM »
Hi --

Just a few ideas for consideration...

I like to play along to a backing tracking, too, which lets me concentrate on melody, changing melody voices, etc. Instead of playing along with a MIDI-based track, I record the MIDI-based track to WAV audio. In the DAW world (terminology), I "freeze" the MIDI to audio. [Ignore that last sentence if it seems to be confusing.]

Once I have a WAV file, then I play along with the WAV audio. My song registrations select both the audio file to be played and the left/right voices (i.e., an additional "left hand part" and right hand "melody part.)

Another way to create a MIDI backing track is to use chord step record in the Song Creator. If you have a lead sheet for the song, you can enter the chords, section changes (Intro, Main A, Main B, etc.) on the chord tab in step record mode. (You can edit the chords, etc. on the chord tab, too.) I start out with a lead sheet or some other kind of "map" so that I know the song structure and corresponding chords in advance.

When I have a chord track that I like, I "expand" the accompaniment into a MIDI song. Then, play-back and record the song to "freeze" it to audio.

Hope this gives you some additional ideas -- pj
 

Offline a1gene

Re: What can be recorded in MIDI Song mode?
« Reply #8 on: November 23, 2018, 11:43:38 PM »
Hi pj,

Thanks for your input. I use tracks now, too, and it's much easier than carrying around a rack full of MIDI gear, but when I did do that several years back, the sound was pristine and easily tweakable for different environments. I was using an old Alesis DataDisk with its 5 1/4" floppy to play the MIDI, and it was very reliable. I'm hoping to be able to do that same sort of thing on the Genos, being able to adjust the part volumes with the sliders on the face of the unit. That would be wonderful! I suppose that might work with the multi-track audio recording feature, too.

Since you mentioned lead sheets, do you know if the score feature of the Genos is capable of displaying lead sheets in some form while a song is playing? If not, I see that the demos display pictures while playing and since lead sheets could be put in pdf, jpg or png format, maybe it would be possible to display them that way during a song. Any thoughts? My whole purpose here is to try to do as much as possible with the Genos itself, connecting as few peripherals as possible.
 

Offline panos

Re: What can be recorded in MIDI Song mode?
« Reply #9 on: November 25, 2018, 08:01:51 PM »
Sometimes people connect the keyboard to an I pad to read the sheetmusic in pdf format
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O5cPMU_H28M

To display the sheetmusic of any channel of a midi you can do it this way
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wo3hXCTg9b8

So you can record a midi song on your keyboard with a style and then you can mute the melody line channel  to play live the melody with your hands.
(Or you can set the melody line with a voice like a pad or something like that which at the lowest volume it won't sound at all).
 
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Offline pjd

Re: What can be recorded in MIDI Song mode?
« Reply #10 on: November 26, 2018, 09:39:20 PM »
..., being able to adjust the part volumes with the sliders on the face of the unit. That would be wonderful! I suppose that might work with the multi-track audio recording feature, too.

Since you mentioned lead sheets, do you know if the score feature of the Genos is capable of displaying lead sheets in some form while a song is playing? ... pdf, jpg or png format, maybe it would be possible to display them that way during a song.

Hi --

Good point about adjusting individual part volume in real-time. Of course, that ability is lost when everything is mixed down to two stereo channels.

Thanks for mentioning audio multi-record. Unfortunately, this wouldn't be as capable as mixing MIDI tracks in real-time. I don't use audio multi-record, but it seems to be designed for laying down a base track (main), followed by a candidate overdub track (sub), then committing the overdub by mixing main+sub into main. The Beatles had more flexibility/options with 4 track tape.  :)

Turning to lead sheets, I know that Genos doesn't support PDF and I don't believe it supports either JPG or PNG for lead sheets either. It's text file only, I'm afraid, although another option is to embed lyrics and chord (symbols) into the MIDI file itself. This works quite well when jamming with a commercial MIDI file with embedded lyrics and chords. The Genos can display the lyrics+chords similar to ChordPro format, or it can display a scrolling staff with melody line, chord symbols and lyrics. In the latter case, it doesn't look like a sheet of music copied from a book. However, it's easy to play along with the linear, running view of the musical notation.

The main problem with embedded lyrics/chords is embedding them if they aren't already in the MIDI file. There are some (free) tools to do this, however, the process looks to be tedious. (Same could be said for adding lyrics to an MP3 via SYLT.)

Hope this ramble is helpful.  ;)

-- pj
 
« Last Edit: November 26, 2018, 09:42:13 PM by pjd »