Author Topic: Use of Song Channels for extra voices  (Read 586 times)

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Offline jwyvern

Use of Song Channels for extra voices
« on: September 25, 2018, 09:10:43 PM »
Following some interest shown (in a Tyros5 thread on v-console) on the possibilities for using the song channels to play extra voices, I decided to start a new thread  based on my experiments on Genos, rather than continue to overload the Ty5 thread with OT detail.
For previous discussion see

http://www.psrtutorial.com/forum/index.php/topic,35695.msg367081.html#msg367081

Here is requested detail starting with setting up the midi template:

1. Generally we only want note data to be sent to the song channels because when making changes to the panel voices or their edits we do NOT want that transmitted to corrupt the song channel setups. So with the All Parts template loaded, select Transmit to get to page 1/5 (Genos). Turn Upper and Lower on, and select channels 5 and 6 for them. Now touch the small arrow at top right and delete all the ticks in the CC and PC columns for each Transmit channel 1-6. Touch save (Genos will select User)/ save here and give the file a name. It now sends only Note, Pitch Bend and Aftertouch data to Port1. The file should now be loaded and will continue to load after future power offs until you decide to switch back to Preset All Parts.
Having the file loaded does not interfere with normal playing.

2. Connect Port1 Out to Port1 In with midi cable. I normally leave this connected whether or not I want to use extra voices. For normal playing it is necessary to turn the Song (B for me) slider to zero to avoid hearing unwanted instruments, usually default pianos.
Disconnect it though for any intensive other midi activities to avoid getting odd effects eg. installing voices from YEM.

3. To experiment without saving load the panel voices with an OTS or registration. Go to Mixer Song1-8 tab and put 1 or more voices into the song channels 1-6 and play the keyboard to get levels etc. right.

Here are some observations I have not been able to improve upon so far:
a. R1,2,3 and Left play corresponding song channels 1-4 (4 being Left) when those parts are On (buttons at far right of KB). Turn a part off and both panel voice + song channel goes off. 
Upper if you use it will provide an extra RH voice, while Lower will provide an extra LH voice, ie. allowing a third LH voice if needed.
b. The song channels play the same notes as the corresponding panel part meaning you can't (without using a DAW) have those 2 voices eg. R1 and Ch1, playing in different octaves. For layering octaves set one of the other voice parts eg. R2 to a lower octave which will also cause Ch2 to play those lower notes.
This is an important restriction I have not resolved because unfortunately the Song Transpose seems to work only with streaming songs, not with live playing!   
c. Another frustrating limitation is that touching Channel Off does not work in this mode either. So to switch voices off you are left with turning down the global Song vol. slider,  or individual channel vols. or bring in a new voice set up via registration change.

If anyone has any further suggestions on resolving some of the above I'd be interested to hear them.

Time is running out for me this session, I'll come back with my version of how to save the setups in a further post.

John
« Last Edit: September 25, 2018, 09:36:04 PM by jwyvern »
 
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Offline Wim NL

Re: Use of Song Channels for extra voices
« Reply #1 on: September 25, 2018, 10:22:07 PM »
Here my midi setup : https://app.box.com/s/j4pjg0hp588i4zmnz6f0wob26nycc6ep
Connect midi B out to midi A in with 5 pin midi cable at the rear of the Genos
load midi setup :

Or save midi setup "MIDI OFF" to user "Extra Parts"
and modify setup as shown below



« Last Edit: September 25, 2018, 10:34:16 PM by Wim NL »
Best Regards,
Wim
 
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Offline jwyvern

Re: Use of Song Channels for extra voices
« Reply #2 on: September 26, 2018, 03:25:13 PM »
Hi  Wim, many thanks for showing your midi setup which I subsequently loaded to Genos. It provides 4 extra channels although you could have 6 if you choose to include Left and Lower Tx channels.
I have a series of Voice setups for this project, saved as 1-note-per-channel midi "songs". One difference I noticed with your template using Port2 to transmit was that the mixer does not show the contents of these song voices when I load them (as my template does). Mixer remains unaffected.
So I am wondering how you manage to inspect, edit and save your voice setups. Is there an alternative way I have missed?

John
« Last Edit: September 26, 2018, 03:31:54 PM by jwyvern »
 
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Offline Wim NL

Re: Use of Song Channels for extra voices
« Reply #3 on: September 26, 2018, 05:33:00 PM »
Hi John,

I must admit that I don't use this setup often.
I don't use the left or lower part either.

You have to save the song voices in the song.

#1 Now with Genos you have to do that in multi record at song start point and setup, execute and save.

You can record a voice setting of course by just record 1 beat to a song track.
All settings and effect will then set in the song track.
You can delete the recorded notes after.

Do #1 over and save the song.
Use registrations to select other songs for extra parts.

« Last Edit: September 26, 2018, 05:50:07 PM by Wim NL »
Best Regards,
Wim
 
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Offline jwyvern

Re: Use of Song Channels for extra voices
« Reply #4 on: September 26, 2018, 06:41:23 PM »
Wim,
Thanks, that is how I save setups too. (I still have to give some detail for others how to proceed) . There are various aspects of how Genos Is programmed which militate against being able to do this in a (sensible!) user friendly way. An example is if you have spent time creating voice setups you can't suddenly decide to save them because as soon as you go to Song record to Execute and Save, all the data is automatically cleared. So you have to make notes, set up record from the start and then do it all again.

John
« Last Edit: September 26, 2018, 06:42:35 PM by jwyvern »
 
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Offline jwyvern

Re: Use of Song Channels for extra voices
« Reply #5 on: September 26, 2018, 08:54:53 PM »
My original post in this thread did not give a procedure for saving voice setups so here is what I do. It has its own built in Yamaha clunkiness, so if someone finds a better way I'd be happy to know.

The voice setups in the song channels need to be saved as "micro midi songs" using Multi Recording but to be successful there are provisos:
When starting a session knowing you will be creating channel setups, push Recording button to left of KB/ Multi Recording right from the start. (If you do this after creating, your work will be automatically wiped without warning!). Touch New song in the Recorder and select the "song" setup you want to work on if you have done this before, or a blank template for a new start (see below).

Each channel you want to record must contain at least one note or it will not save. I use a template for new starts containing 1 note per channel (zero volumes and no pre-assigned voices) and have attached the zip file to this post. Unzip first.

When ready, load a registration that you want to work with the channels, then go to Mixer Song1-8 tab and create the setups you want to blend with that Reg. or just experiment at first to acclimatise. To save, (do NOT press record!) push Exit until you get back to the Recorder. Touch Setup/ Execute, then Close. Touch Save. I save mine to User (to have the fast memory for quick retrieval through registrations).
You have now finished with the multi recorder and recording screen so cancel both. (If you don't do this it will prevent you from finding midi files and loading your newly created one).
Push Song button and select/ Load your file. Now memorise the registration ensuring Song is ticked in addition to the other ticks you use. Save the Bank.
In future when you load that Reg. it will load the channel setup "song" at the same time and the extra voices will play with it.

John
« Last Edit: September 26, 2018, 09:04:57 PM by jwyvern »
 
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Offline MIKEP

Re: Use of Song Channels for extra voices
« Reply #6 on: September 27, 2018, 12:46:59 PM »
Thank you John.
I am sure this will attract a lot of attention from readers.
Mike
 
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