Topic: Setting to allow chord recognition when playing rhythmic chords

[Depo1964]

(Heads-up.... I am not a typical arranger workstation user..
I use the Genos as a typical keyboard player would... e.g. playing bass with the left hand and chords with the right)

When trying to sing harmony for the Animals song - Bring It On Home To Me...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YEjSOUfzuRU
the harmony part is hard to create if I'm playing, for example, 16th notes with my right hand piano part as the song does starting at 0:36..
In other words, the Harmonizer can't detect the chords I'm playing.

I tried changing the settings on page 2 of the Detail Settings page under Vocal Harmony Type, for
Lead Pitch Detect Speed
Harm Pitch Detect Speed
Harm Stability
and none seemed to address this problem....

Does anyone have any ideas?
Thx.

[Lee Batchelor]

(Heads-up.... I am not a typical arranger workstation user..

That may be the problem . I think the arrangers were designed to replace the duel manual organs and their primitive rhythm boxes. That is, melody was always played on the right hand and chords on the left. I know the T5 and Genos has the function the allows you to play left hand bass and chords on the right, but I also believe all vocal harmony is based on the left hand area only, which must contain chords so that the harmonizer can detect the proper chord structure. You may be beat on this one. Can anyone else tell me I'm wrong and that it can be done? Here's hoping so !

[Depo1964]

.........................................................
 but I also believe all vocal harmony is based on the left hand area only, which must contain chords so that the harmonizer can detect the proper chord structure. You may be beat on this one. Can anyone else tell me I'm wrong and that it can be done? Here's hoping so !

Hi Lee,
Thanks for responding, but the Genos is able to detect chords for the upper part of the keyboard that are detected by the vocal harmony process.
On the Split Point & Fingering page the Chord Detection area can be changed from Lower (left hand) to Upper (right Hand).
If I hold those notes in a chord being played with my right hand, the harmonizer detects them and I can create harmonies.

[Lee Batchelor]

Wow, didn't know that! Good to know. Thanks for sharing.

I suppose it makes sense. A chord is a chord - the Genos doesn't care where it's played. It will find it .

[mikf]

You can also try the setting  'AI full keyboard'. This way the keyboard detects all the notes played and works out the most appropriate chord.
Mike

[Depo1964]

You can also try the setting  'AI full keyboard'. This way the keyboard detects all the notes played and works out the most appropriate chord.
Mike

Hi Mike,
Thanks.... Tried it but get the same results...

The vocal harmony is chopped up into the rhythm I'm playing with the chords.
If I hold just one note in the chord the harmonies sounds fine.

I have a feeling that this might have to be a request to Yamaha, for example, for another parameter that takes the frequency of the first chord one hits and doesn't change it until another chord is hit.... Not even sure if it's possible.... let alone Yamaha feeling it's worth the coding effort.
Going to try and run it by Yamaha Support...
Wish me luck.

[mikf]

Depo
At this moment I cannot check out what you are saying, because I am at my other home and although I have a keyboard, don't have a microphone to hand here to try the vocal harmony. But what you are saying just doesn't seem right because I have never noticed it in the past. And what I can observe is that using the full keyboard setting the accompaniment chord being played by the keyboard does not change when I play rhythm piano, no matter how many RH rhythm chords I play per bar, until I change the chord. So I don't see why the vocal harmony would behave any differently.
BTW, don't get carried away with this 'not a typical arranger player' thing. I personally hardly ever play using the basic LH chord drive/RH melody with a keyboard split. There are a number of highly competent piano, organ and keyboard players on this forum who have played every conceivable style at professional levels, including the rhythm piano method you are describing, and we all have found ways to make the keyboard do what we need. Yes, sometimes you need to modify your playing method a little to get the best from the keyboard, like all instruments.
I could be wrong, but don't think the requested changes you describe from Yamaha are actually possible, or maybe necessary to get the keyboard to do what you need. When I get back to my other place in about 10 days I will check out the vocal harmony behavior and get back to you. You might just have something wrong in your set up.

Mike   

[Depo1964]

Hi Mike,
Thanks for the reply.

I'm well aware of the talented keyboard players on this forum.
Just wondering if they use an another piece of hardware for their harmony processing,
and so would not be running into this problem.

I actually didn't realize that the Genos had this built into it, because just a few months earlier
I purchased a TC Helicon VoiceLive 3 Extreme to handle the harmonies for me.
When I found out vocal harmony was possible on the Genos, and it does a respectable job,  I sold the VL3X.

It could very well be a setup problem... In fact, I hope it is.

Maybe the phrase "It is never too late to teach an old dog new tricks" is true....
but this old dog is going S.O.S.  (short on storage) when it comes to learning all
of the nuances associated with the Genos.

If I find the solution to this problem I will most definitely post it here so I don't
waste your time.  Most appreciated.
ciao,  Dan

[mikf]

Dan
My recollection is that on an earlier thread you did not have the accompaniment on. That is not the case here is it? It probably needs to be on for vocal harmony to smooth out. If it is not on, the vocal harmony could well switch in and out between chords. Don’t know for sure because I never tried this. If you use a full Keyboard fingering setting and have accompaniment on I feel pretty confident the vocal harmony should still work properly when you play lh bass and rh chords. If you don’t want to hear the accompaniment you can mute some or all of the each style channels in the mixer. But still have it on.
Some people do use an external vocal harmonizer, but not for the reasons we are discussing here.
Mike

[Depo1964]

Dan
My recollection is that on an earlier thread you did not have the accompaniment on. That is not the case here is it? It probably needs to be on for vocal harmony to smooth out. If it is not on, the vocal harmony could well switch in and out between chords.
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Mike

Bingo!!!
You got it Mike.
My playing style is even copied to the Style I'm using....
I think I'll have to read a bit more of the manual....
Thanks ever so much...
ciao,  Dan

[mikf]

Dan
I did look into this a bit more tonight ( without being able to try vocal harmony of course) but two things I noticed.
1. When I play a bass line it gets copied onto the style so it comes out very powerful and really good and can sound really neat.  I think this is what you are talking about when you say your playing style style is copied onto the accompaniment.
2. If the bass line is relatively simple ie mostly notes form within the chord it works pretty well. But if I start to play a more complex bass line there is a tendency for the software to constantly change chord (you can see this on the display). So I imagine that could mess up the vocal harmony sometimes.

Mike

[Depo1964]

Dan
...............................................
1. When I play a bass line it gets copied onto the style so it comes out very powerful and really good and can sound really neat.  I think this is what you are talking about when you say your playing style style is copied onto the accompaniment.
2. If the bass line is relatively simple ie mostly notes form within the chord it works pretty well. But if I start to play a more complex bass line there is a tendency for the software to constantly change chord (you can see this on the display). So I imagine that could mess up the vocal harmony sometimes.

Mike

1. Yep... I'm beginning to appreciate the ACMP possibilities of the Genos.
 2. Yeah.... don't worry Mike.  If I have to sing harmony on something, the bass line is going to be BASSic scales 101. 
Thx again.