Topic: Yamaha does it again

[Bachus]

Another huge update for the Montage (2.5)
-new sounds
-new performances
-lots of funtional improvements
-new feautures
\and more

https://youtu.be/wlUE24qO93E

Which got me wondering, why do they invest so much into the Montage?
While Genos so far only got some bug fixes?

[Fred Smith]

While Genos so far only got some bug fixes?

And an impressive new feature — Voice Guide.

[vbdx66]

Hi,

The Montage being more studio and production-oriented than the Genos it is logical that it’s system is getting a major update. Such an update might be perceived as intimidating by some Genos users. Also, the Genos is not even one year old. Maybe a major system update for the fall or for Christmas?

Regards,

Vinciane

[SeaGtGruff]

I think perhaps the most important factor is that the Montage has been out for a few years now. No doubt the earliest updates to it were mainly bug fixes, along with an occasional new feature, just as has been the case with the Genos.

[EileenL]

Two totally different animals so you can't really compare. At the end of the day we all choose what kind of instrument we play. The arranger keyboard is suited for just sitting and playing either to entertain or for ones own pleasure. I would imagine montage is used more for programming and studio recording.

[keynote]

The Montage is used by professional musicians i.e. by big name bands so it is basically incumbent upon Yamaha to continue supporting its flagship synth. The Genos is a solid performing keyboard too but you don't see the Genos on TV or on stage at concerts or within the context of other professional venues. The Montage is considered a professional product being used by professional musicians so Yamaha basically has an obligation to support that product. In fact Yamaha even sponsors professional musicians who use the Montage on stage and in the studio in a professional setting. The Genos on the other hand is mostly used by home hobbyists even though it is also considered a professional product i.e. a professional workstation arranger keyboard.

According to Yamaha the "MONTAGE OS v2.5 adds new sound, control and workflow enhancements to the MONTAGE music synthesizer."

Does this announcement about the Montage foreshadow what is possibly in store for the Genos in the coming days? Will the Genos also receive "workflow enhancements" and other goodies? Every Genos owner is no doubt waiting with bated breath for something similar to what was given to Montage owners via OS v2.5. But as we know Yamaha Japan has the final say on what specific products get updated. I guess we should try and stay positive and hope for the best. As it stands now the Genos works pretty much as advertised so any future updates will be icing on the cake. There are still a few bugs and other anomalies so hopefully they will get fixed. But as we know the "icing" on the cake is what makes the cake extra special. 

Mike

[pjd]

According to Yamaha the "MONTAGE OS v2.5 adds new sound, control and workflow enhancements to the MONTAGE music synthesizer."

Does this announcement about the Montage foreshadow what is possibly in store for the Genos in the coming days? Will the Genos also receive "workflow enhancements" and other goodies? Every Genos owner is no doubt waiting with bated breath for something similar to what was given to Montage owners via OS v2.5. But as we know Yamaha Japan has the final say on what specific products get updated.

Hi Mike and everyone --

I just took a quick browse through the Montage v2.5 update. The two big additions are new/upgraded Motif XF Performances and remote DAW control. Both fill in features which ex-Motif users wanted in Montage, too. I think Yamaha are listening to Montage users and are selectively adding Motif features back into Montage. They make Montage a better tool for songwriters/composers, and people using Montage as the center piece in their studio (including use of Montage as a MIDI DAW controller).

I had a long conversation with Nithin Cherian (Steinberg/Yamaha) at the Boston Music Expo. He gave me insight into Yamaha's process. Basically, each product has a planning team which defines "the user experience" for the product. This includes features which might be required in Cubase, by the way, so just yelling at Steinberg is not enough to get a Genos-specific feature added to Cubase. If the planning team decides that a feature is part of "the user experience," then the team requests implementation by the appropriate engineering team within Yamaha and Steinberg.

So, it's on us to communicate our needs to the Genos team. I spoke with other Yamaha folks at the booth and they are well-aware of PSR Tutorial Forum! They also mentioned that everything suggested and reported to Yamaha customer support is logged. It's important to communicate suggestions, etc. directly to Yamaha as well as posting them here.

Another important take-away: Feature requests from multiple users get priority. So, if we want better DAW integration (or whatever), we need to focus, team up, organize and co-operate.

Hope this info helps everyone on the Forum -- pj
 

[Kaarlo von Freymann]

.....The Genos on the other hand is mostly used by home hobbyists even though it is also considered a professional product i.e. a professional workstation arranger keyboard.

.....  I guess we should try and stay positive and hope for the best. As it stands now the Genos works pretty much as advertised....... There are still a few bugs and other anomalies so hopefully they will get fixed.

Mike

Thanks Mike,
I am not waiting for any icing on the cake, I am just waiting for my Genos  to be free of anomalies and bugs.  (whether we call it a professional or a hobby item is irrelevant , Genos is not a bargain-basement item) It have some difficulty abiding by the advice to stay positive and just hope for the best.  I also find it hard to understand those who say,  "you had the choice not to buy the product, stop complaining".  You bought because you had old-fashioned confidence in the manufacturer. Is that a reason to be ashamed and shut up ?

Cheers

Kaarlo   

[EileenL]

Hello Kaarlo,
   I thought most of your problems were now solved. What bugs do you still have. It dose seem that most peoples problems have been solved as the Genos forum is now not as active as it was as members get used to there new keyboards.

[valimaties]

Seems, I was gone for a while, Eileen! 

There are some bugs there, and Yamaha give no answer to our questions, but we are still up!

Best regards,
Vali

[Kaarlo von Freymann]

Hello Kaarlo,
   I thought most of your problems were now solved. What bugs do you still have. It dose seem that most peoples problems have been solved as the Genos forum is now not as active as it was as members get used to there new keyboards.

Sorry Eileen,

I read your kind post just now so I am unpolitely late with my answer.  The only real problem I have had - implementations one feels are not optimal aside - is the fact that my Genos  is able to read correct reg banks (I make them on a second unit the importer has kindly provided for testing the problem) after they are transferred to my Genos by means of a USB stick but is not able to correctly memorize reg banks on itself.  So the "read a reg bank function"  is ok but the "memorize a reg bank"  function does give corrupted results.  As I have now recreated all important reg banks on the second Genos and transferred them to my Genos I can use my Genos on gigs but still cannot create reg banks on it.  The impoter has promised to order whatever parts YAMAHA says must be exchanged to get the "writing" function ok.  To make it work they had as fact also to exchange some innards on my TYROS 5/6  which after that has never anymore had problems. So I am confident the problem will be fixed and the less than optimal implementations  will be taken care of by 1.4 update. How nice it would be to just set tempo, voices, effects and all the rest on a midi file you are playing and then just push save like you alter the settings of a style in style creator and save your tweaked style. So far I have tweaked my midifiles for the Genos using the Tyros 5/6 I still have and of course MIDIFILE OPTIMIZER 8 to get the voices on the correct channel and the transpose at the same time instead of doing it on the Tyros which was easy. Once we have been able to agree ch 10 to be drums I am surprised we have no agreement for base and melody voice.
It's inconvenient just like every internet site having the basket button in a different place. All the talk abot effciency is "second truth" and we know what second truth means.  One reason I have after Tyros ! never even considered another manufacturer is I am loath to have to relearn where what is.  I admire those on this site that say they have and use aternatively different manufacturers keyboards without difficulty.

Cheers

Kaarlo

[andyg]

Once we have been able to agree ch 10 to be drums I am surprised we have no agreement for base and melody voice.

Historically, there never has been any 'standard' channelling apart from Ch10 for drums, and so there never will be. MIDI file creators are free to use the tracks as they please, and we've all come across MIDI files that break the rules for Ch 10, too!

[Bill]

1:   The only real problem I have had - implementations one feels are not optimal aside - is the fact that my Genos  is able to read correct reg banks (I make them on a second unit the importer has kindly provided for testing the problem) after they are transferred to my Genos by means of a USB stick but is not able to correctly memorize reg banks on itself.  So the "read a reg bank function"  is ok but the "memorize a reg bank"  function does give corrupted results.  As I have now recreated all important reg banks on the second Genos and transferred them to my Genos I can use my Genos on gigs but still cannot create reg banks on it. 
2:   The impoter has promised to order whatever parts YAMAHA says must be exchanged to get the "writing" function ok.  To make it work they had as fact also to exchange some innards on my TYROS 5/6  which after that has never anymore had problems.
3:   So I am confident the problem will be fixed and the less than optimal implementations  will be taken care of by 1.4 update.
4:   How nice it would be to just set tempo, voices, effects and all the rest on a midi file you are playing and then just push save like you alter the settings of a style in style creator and save your tweaked style. So far I have tweaked my midifiles for the Genos using the Tyros 5/6 I still have and of course MIDIFILE OPTIMIZER 8 to get the voices on the correct channel and the transpose at the same time instead of doing it on the Tyros which was easy. Once we have been able to agree ch 10 to be drums I am surprised we have no agreement for base and melody voice.
It's inconvenient just like every internet site having the basket button in a different place. All the talk abot effciency is "second truth" and we know what second truth means.  One reason I have after Tyros ! never even considered another manufacturer is I am loath to have to relearn where what is.  I admire those on this site that say they have and use aternatively different manufacturers keyboards without difficulty.

Cheers

Kaarlo

Hi Kaarlo

There are several things I am unclear about in the post you made.  However please let me say that I have a GENOS and generally I'm pleased with my purchase, however there are several thing that I am not ecstatic about, or maybe more accurate I would have preferred it if Yamaha had implemented some things a bit different.  Now to the specifics.

In 1: above, you mention that one one Genos everything works OK but on the other the Create Registration Bank is not working correctly.  Could you possibly post one of the Corrupted banks and let us have a look at it.  Many people other than myself would happily have a look at it for you. The other thing maybe is to send the corrupt file to Yamaha Support and see what they say.  You will need to tell us exactly what is not working correctly though.
In 2 above why does the supplier of the keyboard not return the defective KB to Yamaha for you and let you keep the second one.  Surely if the KB has been defective since you bought it you have every right to expect a replacement and NOT a repair.
In 3:  above you mention that the update 1.4 will hopefully fix the problem,  I fail to see how an update will fix anything especially since things work OK on the other keyboard.
In the 4th topic in the above you refer to MIDI files,  AndyG has corrected responded but is the problem with MIDI and NOT the registration Banks.  Maybe you are loosing something in the conversion of the MIDI.

Regards

Bill

Hope you get it fixed soon.

[EileenL]

Hi Kaarlo,
  If you are creating registration banks on a different keyboard and creating links on that keyboard to Styles or Midi Files that are third party then Just loading in the registration to your existing keyboard will not work because it will be looking for the files that are on the keyboard you made them on.
  You must have your folders that contain your third party styles and Midi files on the keyboard either on the USER or USB you have and then relink them to these files. Once you do this then NEVER move any of these files or the registration will not be able to find them.

[Ikspeel]

When does yamaha it for the genos we are all waiting for a update
 

[AlBags]

Soon, we hope.
No-one really knows tho. They would just be geussing.

Al

[mikf]

Eileen
You are correct, people often just don’t understand what registrations are - just a set of pointers, there are no styles, voices etc in a registration. Moving registrations from keyboard to keyboard are only guaranteed to work if it is the same model and uses onboard styles, voices etc . If it is not, the registration may not work 100% unless everything it points to is also on the memory stick with the registration. Because Yamaha kept many things the same between model upgrades, you frequently get away with it, but it’s not guaranteed.
Mike

[DonM]

There will be an update, as usual, in about 3 or 4 years and it will mostly likely be called Genos 2.  It will cost about 5 to 6 THOUSAND dollars. 
Yamaha has almost never added significant new features to arrangers that are already in production.  They will fix bugs if enough people yell loud enough, but that's about it.

[Ikspeel]

A little small update 
Playlist next 

[EileenL]

What is wrong with playlist. What do you want updated.

[Ikspeel]

With + buttem to the next song in the playlist
Or with pedaal
Now we must always go to playlist enz....

[EileenL]

Once you have your playlist up on screen it is easy to select the next song you want to play. Just high lite it and when ready press enter.

[Ikspeel]

I know elein but when we play live and Youre Lyrics is screen you must leave it

[Lee Batchelor]

Once again, it would be nice to see all lists sorted alphabetically. How difficult is it to modify the OS for such a simple thing that has been available since the Commodore Pet (circa 1979)!!

[Kaarlo von Freymann]

Hi Kaarlo

There are several things I am unclear about in the post you made.  However please let me say that I have a GENOS and generally I'm pleased with my purchase, however there are several thing that I am not ecstatic about, or maybe more accurate I would have preferred it if Yamaha had implemented some things a bit different.  Now to the specifics.

In 1: above, you mention that one one Genos everything works OK but on the other the Create Registration Bank is not working correctly.  Could you possibly post one of the Corrupted banks and let us have a look at it.  Many people other than myself would happily have a look at it for you. The other thing maybe is to send the corrupt file to Yamaha Support and see what they say.  You will need to tell us exactly what is not working correctly though.
In 2 above why does the supplier of the keyboard not return the defective KB to Yamaha for you and let you keep the second one.  Surely if the KB has been defective since you bought it you have every right to expect a replacement and NOT a repair.
In 3:  above you mention that the update 1.4 will hopefully fix the problem,  I fail to see how an update will fix anything especially since things work OK on the other keyboard.
In the 4th topic in the above you refer to MIDI files,  AndyG has corrected responded but is the problem with MIDI and NOT the registration Banks.  Maybe you are loosing something in the conversion of the MIDI.

Regards

Bill


Hope you get it fixed soon.

Thanks Bill for your very accurate and to the point analysis and offer to help. 

Point 1. As a fact  both Eileen and Lee Bachelor  were kind enough to go to the immense trouble of checking the reg banks I sent them.  Had a string of e-mails with Lee and we did come to the conclusion there is  in fact a defect in the "Write Reg Bank function" on my Genos.
  Like you also Lee proposed I  ask for an exchange, which the YAMAHA importer (he is tops) actually has been  willing to do all the time. He brought me a second Genos to find out whether the problem is item-specific and it is.
So your question why I have not done the exchange is more than justified. The reason is,  I have arthritis in my hands and  had to  cast led weights I glued into both white and black keys to make them lighter to the touch. (a thing one would not want to do except for the arthritis as the standard factory-touch is perfect)
 I actually cast these weights for the Tyros 1 and epoxied them to the keys and exchange the whole key set (not the weights) every time I upgraded.  So hard to believe    my Genos has the weighted keys taken from my Tyros 5 (orginating from Tyros 1 !) and  the Tyros 5 now has the new original keys from my Genos.  Fortunately YAMAHA has ket the keys 100% the same ever since Tyros 1.
 
Opening dozens of screws on two keyboards, carefully removing 2 x 76 keys =  152 operations  and carefully  reinstalling 152 keys and putting back the screws is a very time consuming job and you better have an aid to avoid “screwing up” something.
Add to that I have a lot of  Brother P-Touch labels on the Genos to be able to put the marked cables into marked receptables and push the right buttons in low lighting. The whole operation to convert  the “exchange Genos” to the state of my Genos is nearly a day with my fingers, and the YAMAHA SERVICE which of course could do it faster says they would have to charge nearly 400 $  VAT 24%  included.

So that is why I have transferred by USB stick my corrupt  Genos 1  reg banks to the provided Genos II, corrected them there and by UBS stick tranferred them back to Genos 1 where they now work.
I still cannot write reg banks on my Genos, but I can live with that until the importer gets the parts needed to fix that.

So now my only remaining chore is the tweaking of  some 200  excellent YAMAHA SOFT midi files to sound really good on Genos.  The voice volumes and off course the effect settings and the drums (of are not optimal when transferred from Tyros where they were tweaked for Tyros. I believe ist is not a midi problem.
And as has been discussed on this site, what you have to do to save that – not the tweaking itself – is a nightmare of button pushing, some 7 steps   Why Yamaha could not make it as easy on the Genos as on the Tyros has been euphenized by pointing out "they are two different animals" which IMHO is beside the point. It it really wrong to expect operations to be at pare or better, not worse,  on a new top model with a top price ?

Cheers

Kaarlo

 

[Bill]

Hi Kaarlo

Many thanks for taking the time to explain how things are.  It is a pity but very understandable.

Kind regards

Bill