Author Topic: Genos AI Fingering Mode Explained  (Read 21967 times)

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Offline rattley

Genos AI Fingering Mode Explained
« on: May 31, 2018, 08:03:04 AM »
I got this email from Yamaha today.

"It is the first of a series of blog postings dedicated to the understanding of Genos."

I currently use full fingered mode. I remember trying AI mode but didn't spend that much time with it to see if it might be better.

Looking forward to seeing some more. -charley

https://hub.yamaha.com/genos-power-playi...ent=text_module
 
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Offline EileenL

Re: Genos AI Fingering Mode Explained
« Reply #1 on: May 31, 2018, 06:00:08 PM »
Thanks Charlie,
  Very interesting and AI is great to use.

Offline maartenb

Re: Genos AI Fingering Mode Explained
« Reply #2 on: May 31, 2018, 08:29:07 PM »
Here is the direct link to the article: https://hub.yamaha.com/genos-power-playing-mastering-ai-fingered-mode/

AI Fingered is a great way to play chords and have the greatest control of the bass that's capable on a keyboard. Only organ players and real bass players have greater control.

It's unique to Yamaha keyboards.


Maarten
 
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Lloyd E

  • Guest
Re: Genos AI Fingering Mode Explained
« Reply #3 on: May 31, 2018, 09:05:54 PM »
This is going to be a series of "how to" by Yamaha. Not many other companies help like Yamaha.  Glad I own a Yamaha Product.   Lloyd

Offline mikf

Re: Genos AI Fingering Mode Explained
« Reply #4 on: June 01, 2018, 06:06:13 PM »
Not sure that learning all the short cut chords is not harder than just learning the chords ;D
But I guess the beauty of the AI settings is that you can do either and it has sufficient intelligence to interpret. I play AI full keyboard a lot, and this is a great setting for piano players. You can play almost exactly as you would normally play piano across both hands and the accompaniment follows very well, even picking up most inversions and advanced chords, or at least getting close enough that you would not notice.
Mike
 

Offline voodoo

Re: Genos AI Fingering Mode Explained
« Reply #5 on: June 01, 2018, 08:38:57 PM »
Not sure that learning all the short cut chords is not harder than just learning the chords ;D

The real advantage if AI fingering is, that you can

* play regular chords with three or four fingers (no matter of inversion)
* and play bass inversion chords with two fingers.

This combination is unique and real great.

Uli
Yamaha Genos
Yamaha MODX7
Yamaha P-125 Digital Piano
Nord Electro 5D
 

Offline Jay B.

Re: Genos AI Fingering Mode Explained
« Reply #6 on: June 01, 2018, 09:49:34 PM »
New S970 owner here and I appreciate this thread. As I am getting my playing chops back, I have been struggling with the keyboard reading my left hand chords while using styles. After many years of playing in bands and jazz groups, I often don't play the chord root on the bottom of my voicings, if at all. I am going to try the other modes this weekend and see which one works best for me.

Jay B.
 

Offline panos

Re: Genos AI Fingering Mode Explained
« Reply #7 on: June 02, 2018, 01:47:19 AM »
With styles it works easier for me to play inversions of the chords so I don't have to move a lot my left hand around the keyboard and I think it doesn't effect the style's "acoustic" result that much or if not at all sometimes.

With these root fixed,root transpose etc things that each style part was made of
and usually 4 parts playing different keys of the same chord at the same time,
maybe an inversion or a  compound chord won't sound so much different as it would be if you have played the song without a style,
which in that case you would play as a pianist, so you wouldn't press all the chord's keys at the same time.
 
In inversions all chord types can be played from F2 to #F3 (which is just a range of an octave +2 keys),
except from some rare chord types.
Just some thoughts because I cannot control so quickly and accurately my left hand  ;D

Offline andyg

Re: Genos AI Fingering Mode Explained
« Reply #8 on: June 02, 2018, 02:22:02 AM »
As I said on another forum, this is interesting but not enough. It doesn't explain much about AI or the best ways of using it, a couple of which have already been mentioned in posts to this thread.

The best thing about AI Fingered mode is that it's totally 'transparent' to normal chords, regardless of the inversion that they are played in. So my strong recommendation is that everyone who does not need '1 finger chords' in MultiFinger mode should go straight to AI Fingered. AI only starts to work when you ask it to, when not needed you won't even know it's selected!

If makes short work of things like C/G or G/F. It's capable of doing chords like F/G, though the display will be a little confused saying F*/G. Rootless 9ths and 13ths are easy, following exactly the chords that the organist would have used (remember that arranger keyboards are the children of the home organ) along with a foot on a pedal note. The more you ask AI to do, and the more you understand its logic, the more it surprises you.

Steven Sondheim's harmonies are often complex, how about an opening sequence of F 6,9 alternating with Cm9/F? AI can do that, albeit with a 5 note chord (in theory you can use 4 but I haven't got a keyboard here to try it) and a chord where the thumb has to reach over the second finger to play it more comfortably.

Some time ago, Jackie Marsden wrote a couple of articles in the Yamaha Club Magazine which were very, very good, but even they didn't cover all of what was possible. I've been asked a few times to rewrite and extend those articles and, given enough time and a bit of assistance, it's something that I will get around to. Writing what will be a few thousand words is time-consuming! And I'd need Jackie Marsden's blessing to do so.

One little tip. If you have a 61 key instrument, then set the Style and Left key split to G2 rather than F#2. This will allow for the G/B chord that is common in the key of C. Practically every chord you'll ever want can be played with the key split set this way, though at Grade 8 and Diploma exam levels, my students have come across very unusual, but workable, AI chords that have required a key split as high as Bb2!

One little snippet. Not so long ago a good friend of mine (who's been in the business as long as me - 48 years!) told me that AI was actually 'invented', or devised, by his late father, also a friend. He took it to Yamaha and they snapped it up. I'm glad they did!
« Last Edit: June 02, 2018, 02:24:30 AM by andyg »
It's not what you play, it's not how you play. It's the fact that you're playing that counts.

www.andrew-gilbert.com
 
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Offline manuel

Re: Genos AI Fingering Mode Explained
« Reply #9 on: June 02, 2018, 02:47:05 AM »
I am going to give another example of AI Fingered....all of us have heard the song Ice castles, well, in the intro (assuming you play it in the key of "C"), first chord is C, then D chord with C Bass, well with the AI you play C then for the second chord play C & D together......

Another example is if you need to play the F chord with the C bass.....play CF.....

There are many more....

My 2 cents
Manuel
My 2 Cents

Manuel
 

Offline rattley

Re: Genos AI Fingering Mode Explained
« Reply #10 on: June 02, 2018, 07:25:13 AM »
Thanks for all the replies.

Last night I wanted to start exploring AI again and went to change the setting. Low and behold........I already had "AI Fingered"  selected!!  I've had it this way since the beginning........silly me.  I guess since I play full chords I never heard any differences.  Looking forward to trying out some of the examples in the replies. -charley
 

Offline andyg

Re: Genos AI Fingering Mode Explained
« Reply #11 on: June 02, 2018, 04:41:27 PM »
As I said "when not needed, you won't know it's selected".

I rest my case, m'lud! :D
It's not what you play, it's not how you play. It's the fact that you're playing that counts.

www.andrew-gilbert.com
 

Re: Genos AI Fingering Mode Explained
« Reply #12 on: June 02, 2018, 11:19:04 PM »
Some time ago, Jackie Marsden wrote a couple of articles in the Yamaha Club Magazine which were very, very good, but even they didn't cover all of what was possible. I've been asked a few times to rewrite and extend those articles and, given enough time and a bit of assistance, it's something that I will get around to. Writing what will be a few thousand words is time-consuming! And I'd need Jackie Marsden's blessing to do so.

Why don't you just shoot some tutorial videos? Way faster and easier. I'd even be willing to buy that series from you and I'll be others would too!
Check Out My YouTube Channel! https://goo.gl/edbXFS
 
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Offline andyg

Re: Genos AI Fingering Mode Explained
« Reply #13 on: June 03, 2018, 08:55:16 AM »
That's also a possibility that's under consideration!

Time is going to be the issue for me, not enough hours in the day, and I often spend 'downtime' - like now at 12.45 am - typing away! So the written form is something that I'm easy with!
It's not what you play, it's not how you play. It's the fact that you're playing that counts.

www.andrew-gilbert.com
 
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Offline emmaco

Re: Genos AI Fingering Mode Explained
« Reply #14 on: June 13, 2018, 08:58:40 PM »
I discovered by accident that in AI fingered mode, when you hit 3 row notes (say C-C#-D, or B-C-C# etc) it stops arrangement except drums (with a crash at first beat).
Edit : It also works in other modes.

But I prefer Fingered On Bass mode, you can make what you really want to hear. ‘For instance, a C/Bb chord doesn’t sound as well in AI mode.
Anyway, I didn’t find the way to do C/Bb in AI mode, except C-D-Bb but it doesn’t sound as well as in Fingered on Bass mode where you can play what you want to hear.

But it’s all new to me… ;)
 

Offline voodoo

Re: Genos AI Fingering Mode Explained
« Reply #15 on: June 13, 2018, 10:11:40 PM »
I discovered by accident that in AI fingered mode, when you hit 3 row notes (say C-C#-D, or B-C-C# etc) it stops arrangement except drums (with a crash at first beat).
Edit : It also works in other modes.

But I prefer Fingered On Bass mode, you can make what you really want to hear. ‘For instance, a C/Bb chord doesn’t sound as well in AI mode.
Anyway, I didn’t find the way to do C/Bb in AI mode, except C-D-Bb but it doesn’t sound as well as in Fingered on Bass mode where you can play what you want to hear.

But it’s all new to me… ;)

If you want to play C/Bb in AI mode, you should press the notes Bb+C.

With Fingered on Bass you can play any combinations, but you have to play all regular chords in root inversion, so your left hand has to move long ways for standard chord progressions. This is much easier in AI mode. With AI mode you can play any 3-note inversion for regular chords, and get inversions easily with 2-note-fingerings.

Uli
Yamaha Genos
Yamaha MODX7
Yamaha P-125 Digital Piano
Nord Electro 5D
 

Offline emmaco

Re: Genos AI Fingering Mode Explained
« Reply #16 on: June 13, 2018, 10:19:27 PM »
Sorry…
I wanted to talk about Bb/C… :-[
« Last Edit: June 13, 2018, 10:22:27 PM by emmaco »
 

Offline maartenb

Re: Genos AI Fingering Mode Explained
« Reply #17 on: June 13, 2018, 11:11:36 PM »
Sorry…
I wanted to talk about Bb/C… :-[
In AI Fingered mode, play (from left to right): c - d - f - Bb - c


Maarten
 

Offline mikf

Re: Genos AI Fingering Mode Explained
« Reply #18 on: June 13, 2018, 11:29:20 PM »
Unfortunately as Martin says, there is a no short cut fingering in AI mode for Bb/C and you have to finger the five notes as Martin lays out playing just the four notes C D F Bb gives you Bb9. Frankly, even for a very experienced player, this five note chord is not really practical unless you can catch the top C with the thumb of your RH below the split point. But that would also normally be impractical because most people would have the split point set much lower than can be reached.
I tend to use AI full keyboard most of the time and there it works easily by playing bass in the LH and a rh Bb chord along with the Rh melody. As a piano player that is very natural for me.
Mike
 

Offline emmaco

Re: Genos AI Fingering Mode Explained
« Reply #19 on: June 14, 2018, 04:40:04 AM »
In AI Fingered mode, play (from left to right): c - d - f - Bb - c

In Fingered On Bass mode, it’s C-D-F-Bb… a note less…
But for sure, AI mode is very interesting...
But for a piano player as I am, Fingered on Bass is good. Not need to relearn new fingerings.

It depends on the style played.

What a wonderful keyboard !…  :o yesterday I was in vacation, I sat in front of my keyboard at 7am, and I left at midnight… 17 hours on an armchair… not so good for my knees… :D

Offline EileenL

Re: Genos AI Fingering Mode Explained
« Reply #20 on: June 14, 2018, 06:51:22 AM »
You just need to play Bb and C together Bb being the lower note. This will give you C chord with a Bb bass.

Offline emmaco

Re: Genos AI Fingering Mode Explained
« Reply #21 on: June 14, 2018, 04:19:14 PM »
You just need to play Bb and C together Bb being the lower note. This will give you C chord with a Bb bass.

Yes, but in fact I wanted Bb Chord with a C bass. And with AI Fingered, it needs 5 fingers… the option C-D-F (so 3 fingers) works approximately but it doesn’t reproduce the real thing.
That’s why I prefer Fingered On Bass mode.

There’s so much to do with this keyboard !…

if I had been told 30 years ago that I could accompany Freddy Mercury or Paul McCartney with my piano, I would not have believed it !… ;D

It’s a chance to be a musician those days… ;)
 

Offline mikf

Re: Genos AI Fingering Mode Explained
« Reply #22 on: June 14, 2018, 07:14:14 PM »
Eileen -yes, the AI option for Bb/C is a five fingered chord and not really a practical proposition as was stated in previous posts. There is no short cut for this in AI.
Mike
 
 

Offline maartenb

Re: Genos AI Fingering Mode Explained
« Reply #23 on: June 15, 2018, 04:21:33 PM »
the AI option for Bb/C is a five fingered chord and not really a practical proposition

There is an easier way in AI Fingered for this chord. You still have to use five fingers, but it's easier to play and... you get a real Bb/C chord instead of a Bbadd9/C.

Play (from left to right):
  • c - c# - d - f - Bb (chord: Bb/C)
  • c - d - f - Bb - c (chord: Bbadd9/C)

In Fingered on Bass it's impossible to play a Bb/C*. You can only play this chord with AI Fingered!


Maarten

*) You will get Bbadd9/C
« Last Edit: June 15, 2018, 04:29:57 PM by maartenb »
 

Offline voodoo

Re: Genos AI Fingering Mode Explained
« Reply #24 on: June 15, 2018, 05:30:46 PM »
There is an easier way in AI Fingered for this chord. You still have to use five fingers, but it's easier to play and... you get a real Bb/C chord instead of a Bbadd9/C.

Play (from left to right):
  • c - c# - d - f - Bb (chord: Bb/C)
  • c - d - f - Bb - c (chord: Bbadd9/C)

In Fingered on Bass it's impossible to play a Bb/C*. You can only play this chord with AI Fingered!


Maarten

*) You will get Bbadd9/C

Wow, very precise answer.

So I understand the second case. This is the rule: In AI mode, whatever note is played twice (in octave) will be the bass note. So you can construct other slash chords as well.

But what rule is underlying the first case? Is there a rule that "c - c#" adds bass note c without adding it to the chord?

Uli
Yamaha Genos
Yamaha MODX7
Yamaha P-125 Digital Piano
Nord Electro 5D
 

Offline mikf

Re: Genos AI Fingering Mode Explained
« Reply #25 on: June 15, 2018, 05:53:48 PM »
Isn't  Bbadd9/C basically just Bb/C?? Just a rose by another name.
Mike
 

Offline maartenb

Re: Genos AI Fingering Mode Explained
« Reply #26 on: June 15, 2018, 06:01:49 PM »
Wow, very precise answer.

Thank you!


Is there a rule that "c - c#" adds bass note c without adding it to the chord?

Yes, apparently! I discovered this by accident (I am a real nerd when it comes to AI Fingering.  ;D)

This rule doesn't always work, but you can play quite a few chords with it:
  • D/C: c - c# - d - f# - a
  • Dm/C: c - c# - d - f - a
  • Ebm/C: c - c# - Eb - Fb - Bb
  • E/C: c - c# - e - g# - b
  • Em/C: c - c# - e - g - b
  • Gm/C: c - c# - d - g - Bb
  • A/C: c - c# - e - a
  • Bb/C: c - c# - d - f - Bb (already noted in previous posts)
  • B/C: c - c# - d# - f# - b
  • Bm/C: c- c# - d - f# - b

AI Fingering is soooooooooooooooooooo cool!


Maarten
 

Offline maartenb

Re: Genos AI Fingering Mode Explained
« Reply #27 on: June 15, 2018, 06:08:36 PM »
Isn't  Bbadd9/C basically just Bb/C?? Just a rose by another name.

Erm... well... yes... no... not quite.

With a Bbadd9/C the style channels Chord1, Chord2 and Pad play a c note, while with Bb/C they do not. Therefore, on Genos/Tyros/PSR these two chords sound different.

It's nice to have these options, so you can choose which chord sounds best for your song.


Maarten
 

Offline voodoo

Re: Genos AI Fingering Mode Explained
« Reply #28 on: June 15, 2018, 06:18:22 PM »
AI Fingering is soooooooooooooooooooo cool!

And AI even gets much cooler. I found the following german AI description:

  https://heidruns-musikerseiten.de/media/download/pdf/workshops/style/AI-Fingered_HeidrunDolde.pdf

It has one section about root-less chords for jazz piano playing:

* e-a-d gives C 6/9
* eb-a-d gives F 7/13
* b-f-a gives G 7/9
* f-b-e gives G 7/13

And in all cases, the bass note is recognised correcty although it is not played. And depending on style, the fifth is also played by bass player.

Uli


Yamaha Genos
Yamaha MODX7
Yamaha P-125 Digital Piano
Nord Electro 5D
 
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Offline mikf

Re: Genos AI Fingering Mode Explained
« Reply #29 on: June 15, 2018, 06:49:01 PM »
I just tried it on my keyboard, and the sound difference between a Bb/C and Bbadd9/C is so small its not really noticeable within the context of  playing a normal chord progression. And it would never sound 'wrong' , because its the same chord notes, just an additional higher C on some channels. So I would say that the fingered on bass method does work for all practical purposes.   
Five note LH chords are really not practical on arrangers  - the increased difficulty of 4 note to 5 note LH chord is not 20%, its more like 500%.

Mike   
 

RF

  • Guest
Re: Genos AI Fingering Mode Explained
« Reply #30 on: June 15, 2018, 07:25:48 PM »
The real advantage if AI fingering is, that you can

* play regular chords with three or four fingers (no matter of inversion)
* and play bass inversion chords with two fingers.

This combination is unique and real great.

Uli
Great is it, but not unique, because Korg has a similar mode called "Expert". But Korg doesn't speak about this mode much.
At least it seems, that Korg and Yamaha are the only brands, offering this intelligent mode.
With Roland or Ketron you had to set "lowest note is bass" and always to care, that the wanted bass note is the lowest.
 

Re: Genos AI Fingering Mode Explained
« Reply #31 on: June 15, 2018, 09:57:23 PM »
And AI even gets much cooler. I found the following german AI description:
https://heidruns-musikerseiten.de/media/download/pdf/workshops/style/AI-Fingered_HeidrunDolde.pdf

I've seen many of Heidrun's videos on YouTube, and she often does them both in German and English. I wonder if she has this PDF in English?
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Offline emmaco

Re: Genos AI Fingering Mode Explained
« Reply #32 on: June 15, 2018, 10:20:36 PM »
In Fingered on Bass it's impossible to play a Bb/C*. You can only play this chord with AI Fingered!

In fact you can, it's the same thing as AI mode (with c-c#-d-f-Bb).

Voodoo, thanks for the link. They talk about Crash Chord...
You can use these 3 notes to stop arrangement (except drums) and if you add any bass note, the bass also continues to play...

this keyboard amazes me day by day...  :)
 

Offline emmaco

Re: Genos AI Fingering Mode Explained
« Reply #33 on: June 15, 2018, 10:22:58 PM »
I've seen many of Heidrun's videos on YouTube, and she often does them both in German and English. I wonder if she has this PDF in English?

You can copy text and paste it in https://translate.google.com/m/translate?hl=fr.
 
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Offline maartenb

Re: Genos AI Fingering Mode Explained
« Reply #34 on: June 16, 2018, 02:59:23 AM »
In fact you can, it's the same thing as AI mode (with c-c#-d-f-Bb).

I stand corrected. This works in both Fingered and Fingered on Bass. I didn't know that. Cool. Thanks.


Maarten
 
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Re: Genos AI Fingering Mode Explained
« Reply #35 on: June 16, 2018, 10:03:37 AM »
You can copy text and paste it in https://translate.google.com/m/translate?hl=fr.

Thank you, I've already done that, but I'd love to have the whole thing with the illustrations where they belong.
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Offline psr4ever

Re: Genos AI Fingering Mode Explained
« Reply #36 on: July 29, 2018, 11:52:59 AM »
You have mail....     


"Don't only practise your art, but force your way into its secrets."
Ludwig van Beethoven
 
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Re: Genos AI Fingering Mode Explained
« Reply #37 on: July 30, 2018, 04:00:39 PM »
Check Out My YouTube Channel! https://goo.gl/edbXFS
 

Offline andyg

Re: Genos AI Fingering Mode Explained
« Reply #38 on: July 30, 2018, 11:03:13 PM »
You can get Bb/C by playing C D Bb, the display will show Bb*/C, but the sound will be as close as 99% of us want to get it!

It's not what you play, it's not how you play. It's the fact that you're playing that counts.

www.andrew-gilbert.com
 

Offline Dromeus

Re: Genos AI Fingering Mode Explained
« Reply #39 on: August 02, 2018, 10:36:44 AM »
You can get Bb/C by playing C D Bb, the display will show Bb*/C, but the sound will be as close as 99% of us want to get it!

Andy, without any doubt I agree 99.9% with your professional advices and opinions. But this is the one I wholeheartedly disagree. To my ears the difference in sound is just too big. When a band has to play Bb/C, the bass player will deliver the note C while rhythm guitars and other instruments providing the harmonic foundation should play a Bb chord only without an additional 9th which is the C. And that is exactly what AI Fingered does when you use the c-c#-d-f-b fingering.

Let's use the SynthPop style as an example. If you solo the style parts and you play alternating a Bb and a Bb/C chord (with c-c#-d-f-b fingering) you may observe:

- the BASS part play a Bb resp a C note which of course is expected
- the CHD1 part will play a Bb chord in both cases, for this part there is no difference in sound between a Bb and a Bb/C chord.
- the CHD2 part is a piano sound and will play what a piano player should do, a Bb chord in the first case and for the Bb/C he plays Bb with the right hand and a C bass note with his left hand
- the PAD part as well as the PHR1 (a guitar) act the same way as CHD1, no difference in sound between a Bb and a Bb/C chord.

AI Fingered is very clever to provide all the parts a real band would play if you use the fingering the designers choosed for this slash chord.

Of course, you're totally aware of this. Just pointing this out to our fellow keyboard players, as I'm not convinced that 99% will really be satisfied with the Bb-C-D fingering. So folks, just try yourself and let your ears decide  ;D.

Regards, Michael
 

Offline andyg

Re: Genos AI Fingering Mode Explained
« Reply #40 on: August 02, 2018, 04:51:48 PM »
Technically you're correct, but having taught this particular trick since 'whenever' :D, everyone who's used it has been happy with the result. None are pros, but some have gone all the way to diploma standard exams using all sorts of AI chords including, for example, Eb/F in 'Memory'.

As you say, try both and see if you can hear the difference enough to warrant the more difficult fingering version! :)
It's not what you play, it's not how you play. It's the fact that you're playing that counts.

www.andrew-gilbert.com
 

Offline cando614

Re: Genos AI Fingering Mode Explained
« Reply #41 on: April 24, 2019, 03:31:49 AM »
Sorry to resurrect an old thread, I've been away from PSR Tutorial for a while.  One thing I never understood or liked about AI Fingered mode...

When you play only one note, the triggered chord is [1+8].  Why!?  :(  I mean, how often does a unison turn up in popular music scores?  It just doesn't seem very useful compared to the alternative, namely that one key would sound a full major triad.  If the player wants a thin [1+8], then he or she could specify it by playing [1+8].

Yes, I'm aware that a major chord can be specified by playing [1+3], or [1+3+5].  But major chords are quite common.  And sometimes, when the chord changes on every beat, being able to trigger majors with a single note makes things smoother and more accurate.  Some other brands work this way, and have Bass Inversion as a separate function.

So if anyone from Yamaha reads this board: making this an optional setting would benefit some, and leave no one worse off.  This feature is so valuable to me, if Yamaha made this an option in the firmware of the Genos (or whatever succeeds the s975), then I would trade my Tyros to get it!!  Thanks for listening!
 

gmizrahi

  • Guest
Re: Genos AI Fingering Mode Explained
« Reply #42 on: May 03, 2019, 12:12:45 AM »
Yes I agree. This is a great suggestion

gmizrahi

  • Guest
Re: Genos AI Fingering Mode Explained
« Reply #43 on: May 03, 2019, 12:35:29 AM »
Too bad it’s not in English.

And AI even gets much cooler. I found the following german AI description:

  https://heidruns-musikerseiten.de/media/download/pdf/workshops/style/AI-Fingered_HeidrunDolde.pdf

It has one section about root-less chords for jazz piano playing:

* e-a-d gives C 6/9
* eb-a-d gives F 7/13
* b-f-a gives G 7/9
* f-b-e gives G 7/13

And in all cases, the bass note is recognised correcty although it is not played. And depending on style, the fifth is also played by bass player.

Uli
 

Offline mikf

Re: Genos AI Fingering Mode Explained
« Reply #44 on: May 03, 2019, 09:58:06 AM »
Interesting, but while in a jazz trio with a bass player rootless chords are common for the piano player, since you are driving the accompaniment on an arranger wouldn’t you normally want the bass?
On the doubled up bass, I think that’s a useful if not common alternative, so don’t see why you would need yet another way of simplifying major chords by removing it.
Mike
 

Offline guitpic1

guitpic1

For me, the goal is to keep growing/learning.
 

Offline EileenL

Re: Genos AI Fingering Mode Explained
« Reply #46 on: May 03, 2019, 11:15:51 AM »
Just one thing wrong with this video. AI fingering dose not read as All fingering. It means Artificial Intelligent fingering.   On Bass means that the lowest note played in any chord will use that as the base note also. Not very good info really.

   Eileen 

Offline panos

Re: Genos AI Fingering Mode Explained
« Reply #47 on: May 03, 2019, 12:41:03 PM »
I thought in music the interesting part was a nice recognizable, kind of unique melody.
In Jazz improvisations the important part is the exact chord fingering or something?
Too many details. :)
A "style" is not just a piano or a bass player after all.

gmizrahi

  • Guest
Re: Genos AI Fingering Mode Explained
« Reply #48 on: May 04, 2019, 05:24:14 PM »
Can anyone suggest the right kind of fingering for chord progression using AI fingered?

Thanks
 

whataguy

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Re: Genos AI Fingering Mode Explained
« Reply #49 on: May 04, 2019, 08:22:03 PM »
If you scroll up and read mikf's first post you'll find that he really nails it with his first sentence about the 'shortcut' chords are harder than learning how to play the chord the right way. The Yamaha instrument is very very smart in that I can remember back in the 70's I had a Yamaha D-80 roll top spinet and it would play the corresponding bass pedals of a chord (1st and 5th tone) regardless of inversion of the left hand chord being played. Plus, if you're playing from real music how many beats are you in any chord, an 1/8 note or a whole note at most? Even if you're in a tied whole note for more than one measure you're filling that time with passing chords and improv that again limits the amount of time that whatever you are playing is only a 1/8 or l/4 beat. I happened to check the amount of time it took to read all the postings on this subject then sat down and played three full songs. Stop cheating yourselves out of entertaining time playing. One of the things my grand daddy never said was 'some folks will complain about being hung with a new rope'. Again, re-read Mike's first post, it says it all. Don in MI