Topic: No Tilt Display! why not Tilt the Genos?

[ton37]

Hi, the Genos doesn't have a separate tilt display. For many (as well it is for me) it is a questionable isue.
So, has anyone just tried to tilt the Genos in its entirety (e.g. heighten at the backsite). If so, does it increase the visibility of the display (and the digits above the knobs/sliders?) I guess it will??
And how is the feeling when playing the keys, concerning comfort and playablity.

If it 'works' what would be (for you?) the maximum raise, e.g. degrees for comfortable playing?

I can imagine that one has to reach less to the touchscreen and slider/knobs. That would be more ergonomic (for back/arm stretching/visibility etc.)

I see many keyboardists with 2 keyboards on a rack/standard on which the keyboard is reasonable tilt, that's why I came to this idea.

As I momentairly doesn't have a keyboard, I cannot try it myself. But I'm curious if it could work..?
Greetings, Ton

[KeyboardByBiggs]

For me, the way they've designed it I have no issues with using it as is. I'm sure you could tilt it quite a bit, up to the point it affects your ability to play the keys.

[keynote]

The Genos has a somewhat tilted screen already. You are right in that there is no adjustable tilt display like they have on the Tyros. Yamaha engineers constructed what they considered an optimal degree of tilt for the Genos LCD display. When you sit to play the Genos the display is bright and easily readable. The same is true when you stand and play the Genos so there is really no reason or need to tilt the keyboard itself in order to achieve good results. Now if you have a duel setup with a two tier keyboard stand with the Genos on the top tier you could optionally adjust the stands keyboard mounts up or down to better suit your playing needs which would also tilt the Genos display forward or backward accordingly. Most people play the Genos on a regular keyboard stand that is also level which is normally how you would play a keyboard (piano).

Mike

[Al Ram]

Ton
I had the same reaction at first.   However,  after getting the Genos and playing it, i have found no issues or need to further tilt the Genos screen.     Having said that, i am not sure that if you play in the sun or direct light you would need to tilt the screen . . . . accordingly.     

but so far no issues for me.

thanks

 

[travlin-easy]

Keep in mind that all of the newer keyboard utilize supertwist displays, which can be seen very well at any angle - no need for a tilt screen.

Gary

[ton37]

Thanks you for your  (reassuring) reactions. I Will Keep that in Mind when I going to try out the Genos next week. Each New Technical design is a mix between technicians views and economics importance. Sometimes the ergonomics is then less important. But that's simply  a buyer's choice 

[EileenL]

You will find the screen really comfortable to use. With outside playing I had to have a shield when playing my Tyros 5 in strong sunlight but Genos is a lot clearer.

[Lloyd E]

The Genos screen is easy to use without the need for a tilting screen. It looks a lot nicer and works fine without tilting at all. Get used to the screen and you will be happy,.  Lloyd

[Al Ram]

You will find the screen really comfortable to use. With outside playing I had to have a shield when playing my Tyros 5 in strong sunlight but Genos is a lot clearer.

Eileen
what type of shield ?

thanks

[travlin-easy]

Al, years ago, when displays were totally unreadable outdoors, we made screen shrouds that resembled an air scoop on an old hot rod car out of black construction paper and held them in place with velcro strips placed around the edge of the display housing. Worked great.

Good luck,

Gary

[Al Ram]

Gary

thanks a lot. It is good to know if playing outdoors, however, it seems that is no longer needed.

thanks again.

[EileenL]

I used similar to Gary but made mine from card board.

[jerryghr]

They are now making clip on shades for portable devices.  Would work on tilt displays outdoors.

Here is one example:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00OUKZMR2/ref=sspa_dk_detail_2?psc=1&pd_rd_i=B00OUKZMR2&pd_rd_wg=x6mD8&pd_rd_r=DPRYMT1Y1G370QBBWQDB&pd_rd_w=6bKrm



Regards,

Jerryghr


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[Al Ram]

They are now making clip on shades for portable devices.  Would work on tilt displays outdoors.

Here is one example:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00OUKZMR2/ref=sspa_dk_detail_2?psc=1&pd_rd_i=B00OUKZMR2&pd_rd_wg=x6mD8&pd_rd_r=DPRYMT1Y1G370QBBWQDB&pd_rd_w=6bKrm

Jerryghr

it looks good !   i wonder about the size for Genos, . . . .   

Regards,

[Kaarlo von Freymann]

.........With outside playing I had to have a shield when playing my Tyros 5 in strong sunlight but Genos is a lot clearer.

Have had real problems  at garden parties with Tyros. Glad to hear Eileen they will be less with Genos, so far it is too cold for garden parties in Finland   

Cheers

Kaarlo

[travlin-easy]

Kaarlo, the last time I was in that part of the world, they only had two seasons - winter and winter. It was always too cold!

Gary

[Kaarlo von Freymann]

Kaarlo, the last time I was in that part of the world, they only had two seasons - winter and winter. It was always too cold!

Gary

Yes Gary, you are right and we in deed have  the saying

                                "Our summer is short, but it is not snowing all the time."

I am playing outdoors on June 6th, and 26th. Will be around  49 F.  By the way I know NOBODY who has visited as many countries as you have.

Cheer

Kaarlo




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[Lee Batchelor]

Great pic, Kaarlo!!

Is that straw attached to a trumpet or a bottle ?

[Kaarlo von Freymann]

Hi Lee,
that silicone tube goes to the breath controller Neil Steiner gave me the schematics for some 30 years ago

                                 http://www.patchmanmusic.com/NyleSteinerHomepage.html

so I could build the breath controller myself. It has both a VCA and a VCF so if you route the wind instruments on Tyros or Genos to the Aux out you can blow your wind instruments to sound like real ones using the  excellent trumpets and saxes available as presets.
The old brass trumpet is just for show business and  I  am regularly asked whether the tube is connected to a bottle of whisky. To which I say, "you seem to know Louis Armstrong always had a glass hidden in the huge towel he would wipe his face with - I saw him live in Hamburg  taking a sip all the time. He will forever remain my Idol, but take a look, this tube goes into the preamp."

Was out in my garden to-day with the Genos and I had the impression you can see the display in sun light especially if you make a  "roof" for the display out of black cardboard and tape it to the housing which is easily done.  I feel here is not need for any tilting.

Cheers

Kaarlo

Cheers

Kaarlo

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[markstyles]

While I always liked and tilted the screen on a T5.... I find no issue with the Genos screen as is..  From a practical point of view, the tilting screen was a good candidate for an accident. 

[DerekA]

I've just moved up to the Tyros 5, and I really like the tilting screen. Even though the screen layout is the same as the S770 it's much easier to use along with the sliders.

[gerarde]

I took a small cardboard box, cut off one side, then cut all sides to lower it, faced the opening to me, and works perfect in the sun.
I may spray paint it black to look better.

Gerard

[ton37]

Hi, a short update. After weigh and weigh I finally made it up and have bought (again) a mint Tyros 5-76 for a very reasonable price. That is a personal choice, but the T5 offers me so much of what I need (even more than that). The soundquality and the musical potency are more than enough for ME. In relation to this post/subject: if I could choose between a Genos with or without a tilt display, I certainly go for a tilted screen. In my homestudio I work with lightning just above the keyboard so that my old eyes easily can read the musicsheets etc. The flat display of the Genos reflects the lamp, what is a bit annoyance. Ofcourse, that is soluble, but adjusting no needed with the T5. Coming years I’m assured to have a great keyboard at my disposal, and once the Genos 2 will appear in the market. Maybe, just maybe then again I will scratching my head??
Ofcourse it is pure a personal choice, and I respect everybodies choice. The mean reason is that one enjoy making music with whichever keyboard you have. I want everybody to be a happy musician and share the joy of playing with keyboards.
Regards Ton

[Kaarlo von Freymann]

......In my homestudio I work with lightning just above the keyboard so that my old eyes easily can read the musicsheets etc. The flat display of the Genos reflects the lamp, what is a bit annoyance.
Regards Ton

Ton you are right. I also happen to  have a lighting fixture right over the Genos in my studio. I have had to leave that lamp unlit due to the reflection. Not a big problem for me as like Errol Garner    I am not able to play a keyboard from sheet music. With a saxophone it is easy as you have your fingers in the right place automatically, on a keyboard I must look to know where I am.

Cheers

Kaarlo

[Audrey Turner]

Hello Everyone,

I didn't like the non tilt DARK screen either, but on reading the User Manual I discovered there is a way to brighten it using the - "Changing the Brightness of Lighting Buttons" - shown on page 25 of the Owner's Manual. You are given options on how bright to have it and I moved my screen to it's very highest option and for me, it works very well.  Thought you might like to know this.

Audrey Turner

[Lee Batchelor]

Thanks, Audrey! I had forgotten about that adjustment.

You're fairly new here, I believe. Welcome aboard !

- Lee

[Depo1964]

Not having received my Genos yet, and not directly related to the specific question....

however, could using an ipad pro help facilitate this problem?

Could the ipad pro duplicate what is seen on the Genos screen?

Could the ipad pro also duplicate any changes made? 

[Al Ram]

Could the ipad pro duplicate what is seen on the Genos screen?

i have Genos and iPad Pro 12.9.  Do not know any way that can be done . . . .

I use the iPad Pro to see my PDF's.   So, i believe that in this case, seeing the Genos screen on the iPad would conflict with seeing the PDF's.

thanks   

[Lee Batchelor]

I played an outdoor gig this past weekend. We were under a tent with no direct sun light, but plenty of daylight. I refuse to play in open sunlight conditions for two reasons: you sit there and bake, and the birds are not to be trusted with their periodic aerial bowel movements!

There were no problems reading the screen. In similar conditions with my T5, I would have had to change the angle a bit - perhaps more than I was used to.

[Kaarlo von Freymann]

quote : I refuse to play in open sunlight conditions for two reasons: you sit there and bake, and the birds are not to be trusted with their periodic aerial bowel movements!

Lee,

I did that last Sunday and the dinner jacket went to the cleaner      BTW some birds do dissipate stuff that one must immediately wipe off the keyboard as it may if left on leave marks that later cannot be removed.

Cheers

Kaarlo

[Lee Batchelor]

Agreed, Kaarlo.

A few years back, I did a gig in "open air" but in the shade, which was fine. I set up my MOX8 and SoundCraft mixer. The mixer was at the right end of my keyboard, about eight inches away and angled, so I could adjust sound with my right hand, on the fly (no pun intended!). The gig location was along the shores of a large river, with copious numbers of seagulls. After the setup, I went to the washroom and came back to notice a huge puddle of seagull do-do between the upper octave of the MOX8 and mixer - on the ground! The seagull had a major dump but missed my gear. How? I don't know. I was astounded! If the seagull had hit the upper octaves of the MOX8, it would have been unplayable, and I would have ended up with a repair bill of around $400 (CDN). I made the decision that night to refuse any open air gigs. The next day, our band leader went out and bought one of those portable 10' x 10' tents.

[beekay]

Hi Folks
If you find it difficult to see the Genos tilted screen why not try raising your seat a little - it works for me.

Hi Audrey
I raised the question of increasing the light level with my dealer and it made no difference to the screen - it only appears to increase the light on the buttons (registrations etc).

Regards
Brian

[Kaarlo von Freymann]

.....increasing the light ...... made no difference to the screen - it only appears to increase the light on the buttons .....

Regards
Brian

Hi Brian,

You are 100 % correct. On my Genos raising the luminosity of the buttons,   which is very useful indoors in strong lighting, does not  affect the display.
The problem with the buttons is they are not recessed like on the Tyros 5  but sticking out so  they are flooded with the light of the sun outdoors even in the evening when it stands low. Therefore raising their luminosity does not help enough.  You will as Lee Batchelor has pointed out need to be standing under some sort of roof. Even a thin white tent is ample remedy. 

I  was playing outside on Sunday  and could not see which button was lit unless I put my hand  over them.
But that was the same on Tyros 5 and all my complaints  about Genos always have the Tyros  as  reference.   

Cheers

Kaarlo

[markstyles]

I quickly got used to flat Genos display and like it.  I was always worried a bit about Tyros display, one small accident would have broken display off, or locked in an up position.

One less thing to break in my opinion.

[Kaarlo von Freymann]

I quickly got used to flat Genos display and like it.  I was always worried a bit about Tyros display, one small accident would have broken display off, or locked in an up position.

One less thing to break in my opinion.

"One less thing to break in my opinion." Correct.  Strange, maybe one should have been worried, all the Tyros keyboards had the tilt feature. Never was worried  and nothing ever happened during a whole decade.
There were out door situations where the tilt  really helped. But it could break and it adds weight.

Had an outdoors gig yesterday. 2 - 10 PM. No direct sunshine as trees gave shade, but the Genos display was "looking" at a cloudless sky. No way to see anything on the display without  the carbon fiber  shield. The Tyros tilt screen never "looked" at the sky.

Cheers

Kaarlo   

[travlin-easy]

Kaarlos, you can always tilt the keyboard, which is what we did many years ago to solve that problem. I used rubber door-stop wedges placed under the back edge of the keyboard and held to the stand arms with heavy rubber bands.

Gary

[Gloria]

Kaarlos, I must say - - your picture of a "one man band" really made me do a fast "double take!"   

[ton37]

Kaarlos, you can always tilt the keyboard, which is what we did many years ago to solve that problem. I used rubber door-stop wedges placed under the back edge of the keyboard and held to the stand arms with heavy rubber bands.

Gary

Right Gary, that's just what I meant in my OP  . I was wondering 'if' that could help, how much your keyboard can be tilted without losing a comfortable keyboard handling, greetings Ton

[travlin-easy]

Ton, I have tiled them up to 30 degrees from horizontal with no playing problems.

Gary

[Kaarlo von Freymann]

Hi Everybody,
to-day there was no sun. Made attached photos.  Came to the conclusion the umbrella was best so if one big sturdy is available on the site the problem is solved. If not one needs something in the direction of

http://www.quiklok.com/catalog/index.php?p=galleryGalleryShow&iId=791&iIdLink=553&iType=1

with a canvas suspended between modified parts for the upper keyboard.

Cheers

Kaarlo

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[gerarde]

Just cut a small cardboard box like I did and yhen you do not have to tilt.
It works perfect in the sun.

Gerard

[Lee Batchelor]

Gerard, how do you prevent the the box from blowing away in the wind? I know you can use Velcro, but I don't want to glue one side of Velcro to a $6,000 keyboard! It would destroy the resale value .

[Lee Batchelor]

Kaarlo, are you really comparing apples to apples in those two pics? Do they not represent two keyboards under totally different lighting conditions? Personally, I refuse to play outside unless there is cover (shade). All my clients and band mates know this .

[gerarde]

Lee,
It is only about 3 inches high.
I have not had any problems with wind so far.
I will try and take a pic of it so you can see it.
I still have to spray paint it black yet.

Gerard

[Lee Batchelor]

Great, thanks Gerard!

[gerarde]

Lee,
Here is the pic.
Crude but works fine.
Get a box about 12 inches in width so it fits.

Gerard

[attachment deleted by admin]

[Kaarlo von Freymann]

Gerard, how do you prevent the the box from blowing away in the wind? I know you can use Velcro, but I don't want to glue one side of Velcro to a $6,000 keyboard! It would destroy the resale value .

Hi Lee,
I have been using adhesive Velcro on all my Tyros keyboards (and now on the Genos Nr.1 that the dealer took back)   for a decade and the military drones we manufacture and removing it by pulling it gently back over itself, not upward, has so far never left any marks which attests to the fact that the YAMAHA  surface finish is of very high quality, e.g. sticks to the housing even when Velcro has been sitting on it for several years.

Now this is the Velcro they sell in Finland, but I believe it is the same all everywhere as to the type of tack glue they use. To make sure you might want to stick it to the bottom of your Genos for a while to test.
I know from our "Manufacturers' serial number stickers"  there are glues that will not un-stick without damaging he underlying surface which is required by our laws, but I have so far not encountered Velcro with that strong a glue.

"Are you really comparing apples to apples in those two pics? Do they not represent two keyboards under totally different lighting conditions?" 
Good question.  The pictures were done within 15 minutes of each other so the lighting conditions were the same. You are correct that one was the Tyros with the tilt screen tilted under an umbrella and the Genos was without an umbrella because I was not physically able to shield it with an umbrella and take a picture as the screen cannot not be tilted.   My idea was to show that in MHO you do need a shield in both cases, be it a tilt or non tilt display.

It would have been a good idea to take a photo of the Tyros without the umbrella also.  I took for granted that Tyros owners know if you keep it flat "looking at the sky" even if there is no sun you cannot read it, which is true for most any display, even my MacBook Pro (17-inch, Mid 2010) which I bought at that time because it was better that anything else for adjusting our drones out on the shooting ranges.
 
My idea was to prove what you have stated I feel is correct:  at outdoors gigs you need a tent or whatever.

I also liked the two keyboards standing close to one-another making Tyros look clumsy compared to Genos. And as fact weight and size (and sliders)   have been for me the the reasons that have weight (pun intended )

Cheers

Kaarlo

[Lee Batchelor]

Great info, Kaarlo. I didn't know we could get Velcro with a non-residue glue. I'll check into that. Thanks !

[Kaarlo von Freymann]

Lee,
Here is the pic.
Crude but works fine.
Get a box about 12 inches in width so it fits.

Gerard

Thanks Gerard,
one picture tells more than - was it a hundred or a thousand ?  words.  Will build one and keep you posted.  Just to make sure I order the correct size carbon plates,  would you mind listing all the dimensions of your box (roundings excluded) ? I am under the impression I already sent a posting about this, but as so often I seem to push the wrong button 

Cheers

Kaarlo

[gerarde]

Karlo,

Dimensions are 12 wide by 5 high by 6 deep.
The box was bigger but I just kept cutting it until it was right for me.

Gerard