Author Topic: No Tilt Display! why not Tilt the Genos?  (Read 5844 times)

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Offline zionip

Re: No Tilt Display! why not Tilt the Genos?
« Reply #50 on: June 09, 2018, 05:27:27 PM »
Gerard's cardboard box is very nice low-cost solution for Genos non-tiltable screen under strong overhead light.  The only shortcoming of such a solution is its portability.

This prompted me to start a proof of concept product test of a relatively low cost, US$6.95, 9.7" Tablet FPV Monitor Sunshade Sun Hood for DJI Phantom 3 Transmitter Remote Controller Quick Release iPad Holder Clip Mount - White:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00VWC5MBM/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

This product is in white color outside (so it does not get hot as quickly as the black ones under the sun), and is made of Faux leather outside, with dull black velvet like material inside to prevent light reflection.  It uses Velcro design, easy to install and disassemble:


This sunhood can be folded into 12 x 7 x 3/8 inch for easy transport and storage, weighs about 240g (8.46 oz):


Player's view of the sunhood covering Genos screen, assembled sunhood dimensions: 10 (W) x 7 1/8 (D) x 7 inch (H):


Side view:


If you prefer a black sunhood for your Genos for indoor playing, you can find product similar to the following:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/9-7-Inch-Monitor-Foldable-Sunshade-Sun-Shade-Hood-for-DJI-Inspire-1-iPad-Air/311755091707?hash=item48960d2efb

Thanks,
Paul
 
The following users thanked this post: Kaarlo von Freymann

Re: No Tilt Display! why not Tilt the Genos?
« Reply #51 on: June 09, 2018, 08:49:33 PM »
The Genos screen is easy to use without the need for a tilting screen. It looks a lot nicer and works fine without tilting at all. Get used to the screen and you will be happy,.  Lloyd

Hi Lloyd,
Thanks for an interesting posting.  "Get used to the screen and you will be happy". There seem to be a lot of Genos owners who are not happy, but maybe there is something wrong with their eyesight. 

I believe those who have been on this site for some time  may wonder that whenever someone claims Genos in some respect is still not perfect, someone will post he is wrong, it is just a matter of getting used to it.    I have had mine since January and still have not, so be warned, getting used may take more time than anticipated.

Cheers

Kaarlo
The year you were born is unimportant as long as you can still play your keyboard and don't have to change the treble setting
 

Offline Lee Batchelor

Re: No Tilt Display! why not Tilt the Genos?
« Reply #52 on: June 09, 2018, 09:01:33 PM »
Neat product, Paul. I wonder if it would block some of the view to my music stand that contains all my charts.
Current Gear: Genos, SoundCraft mixer, two Bose L1 Compacts, 15 inch sub designed and built by myself, Yamaha HS8 studio monitors, Cubase 8 Artist, Steinberg UR-44.
 
The following users thanked this post: Kaarlo von Freymann

Offline Pianoman

Re: No Tilt Display! why not Tilt the Genos?
« Reply #53 on: June 09, 2018, 09:53:08 PM »
Come on guys.
Let's just admit for once that a tilt screen would have been better.

We are missing the point here, namely that it has come down to needing cardboard
boxes and velcro on such a beautiful instrument.

And depending on whether one is sitting or standing when playing, the box would have
to be high enough in order not to hinder vision and freedom of movement on the screen.

What would the audience think?

Pieces of cardboard and Velcro on a 4000Ä instrument? Really?

Best Regards.
Abby.
« Last Edit: June 09, 2018, 10:02:45 PM by Pianoman »
Musicians don't retire; they stop when there's no more music in them.

Louis Armstrong.


Welcome To My YouTube Videos.
https://m.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLJo1iW9nz1GWzeg1QBl-1wVx14CDWlBqx
 
The following users thanked this post: Kaarlo von Freymann

Offline Fred Smith

Re: No Tilt Display! why not Tilt the Genos?
« Reply #54 on: June 09, 2018, 10:04:10 PM »
Long ago, Gary Diamond posted that he insists a canopy be provided for all his outdoor gigs. Seeing the screen was only one issue. In addition, both the keyboard and the performer need protection from the elements.

Itís still the best advice for outdoor gigs. And it came long before non-tiltable screens.

Fred
Fred Smith,
Saskatoon, SK
Sun Lakes, AZ
Genos, Bose L1 compacts, Finale 2015
Check out my Registration Lessons
 

Offline Pianoman

Re: No Tilt Display! why not Tilt the Genos?
« Reply #55 on: June 09, 2018, 10:34:18 PM »
Long ago, Gary Diamond posted that he insists a canopy be provided for all his outdoor gigs. Seeing the screen was only one issue. In addition, both the keyboard and the performer need protection from the elements.

Itís still the best advice for outdoor gigs. And it came long before non-tiltable screens.

Fred

Even more reason to have a tiltable screen.

My feeling is that we shall see a return of the tilt screen on the next Genos.

Best Regards.
Abby.
« Last Edit: June 09, 2018, 10:37:34 PM by Pianoman »
Musicians don't retire; they stop when there's no more music in them.

Louis Armstrong.


Welcome To My YouTube Videos.
https://m.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLJo1iW9nz1GWzeg1QBl-1wVx14CDWlBqx
 

Offline Lee Batchelor

Re: No Tilt Display! why not Tilt the Genos?
« Reply #56 on: June 09, 2018, 10:52:07 PM »
If they build a tiltable, touch screen, it needs to be VERY robust, otherwise it will be destroyed within a year. We never poked at the T5 screen :).
Current Gear: Genos, SoundCraft mixer, two Bose L1 Compacts, 15 inch sub designed and built by myself, Yamaha HS8 studio monitors, Cubase 8 Artist, Steinberg UR-44.
 

Offline beykock

Re: No Tilt Display! why not Tilt the Genos?
« Reply #57 on: June 09, 2018, 11:11:44 PM »
Never heard any complaints from PSR S users their screen is not tiltable.

Is it a " tiltable " problem or is it more the touch screen of the Genos ?

I remember many Tyros players always liked the knobs and did not want to have a touch screen. IMHO.

Babette
« Last Edit: June 09, 2018, 11:15:52 PM by beykock »
 

Offline Fred Smith

Re: No Tilt Display! why not Tilt the Genos?
« Reply #58 on: June 09, 2018, 11:33:48 PM »
Even more reason to have a tiltable screen.

My feeling is that we shall see a return of the tilt screen on the next Genos.


How is a tiltable screen going to protect you or your equipment from the elements?

How is a tiltable screen going to be easier to read in bright sunlight?

I don't see Genos ever having a tiltable screen.

Fred
Fred Smith,
Saskatoon, SK
Sun Lakes, AZ
Genos, Bose L1 compacts, Finale 2015
Check out my Registration Lessons
 

Offline Pianoman

Re: No Tilt Display! why not Tilt the Genos?
« Reply #59 on: June 09, 2018, 11:37:41 PM »
If they build a tiltable, touch screen, it needs to be VERY robust, otherwise it will be destroyed within a year. We never poked at the T5 screen :).


I am sure that Yamaha will take that into account and build a robust screen support.

Best Regards.
Abby.
Musicians don't retire; they stop when there's no more music in them.

Louis Armstrong.


Welcome To My YouTube Videos.
https://m.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLJo1iW9nz1GWzeg1QBl-1wVx14CDWlBqx
 

Offline Pianoman

Re: No Tilt Display! why not Tilt the Genos?
« Reply #60 on: June 09, 2018, 11:45:42 PM »
How is a tiltable screen going to protect you or your equipment from the elements?

How is a tiltable screen going to be easier to read in bright sunlight?

I don't see Genos ever having a tiltable screen.

Fred

If people are now obliged to employ pieces of cardboard in order to read the screen, wouldn't
a tiltable screen be a step in the right direction anyway?

I have performed in broad daylight yesterday on a Tyros, had no problem reading the screen,
and thoroughly enjoyed the elements.

I even got myself a good suntan in the process.

Best Regards.
Abby.
« Last Edit: June 10, 2018, 12:00:06 AM by Pianoman »
Musicians don't retire; they stop when there's no more music in them.

Louis Armstrong.


Welcome To My YouTube Videos.
https://m.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLJo1iW9nz1GWzeg1QBl-1wVx14CDWlBqx
 

Offline ton37

Re: No Tilt Display! why not Tilt the Genos?
« Reply #61 on: June 09, 2018, 11:47:04 PM »
If they build a tiltable, touch screen, it needs to be VERY robust, otherwise it will be destroyed within a year. We never poked at the T5 screen :).
Mmm.. I have poked many years on this one, not on the display, nevertheless  ;)

Offline EileenL

Re: No Tilt Display! why not Tilt the Genos?
« Reply #62 on: June 10, 2018, 12:24:04 AM »
I played outside a couple of times with my Tyros 5 and no matter how I tilted the screen I still could not see it.
  Aways best to have some protection from the sun and after that I insisted on having an awning to play under.

Offline Pianoman

Re: No Tilt Display! why not Tilt the Genos?
« Reply #63 on: June 10, 2018, 12:25:52 AM »
This is my gear, indoors with the Tyros tilted.

I use it indoors but have started to play outdoors since about 2 months ago,
and will continue doing so till September 30th.

I can read the screen perfectly well outdoors.

As you can see, the instruments are still in pristine condition despite using them
outdoors, apart from the microphone stand that I bought in Germany in 1978.

Best Regards 
Abby.
« Last Edit: June 10, 2018, 12:57:43 AM by Pianoman »
Musicians don't retire; they stop when there's no more music in them.

Louis Armstrong.


Welcome To My YouTube Videos.
https://m.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLJo1iW9nz1GWzeg1QBl-1wVx14CDWlBqx
 

Offline XeeniX

Re: No Tilt Display! why not Tilt the Genos?
« Reply #64 on: June 10, 2018, 12:56:59 AM »
Sigh,

I do not and will not take part in the endless Genos pro/contra discussions but MY MY what a nice and stylish living room and even more important what an awesome view you have from there Abby. Makes me eny you a little :D

best regards,
Peter




 

Offline Lee Batchelor

Re: No Tilt Display! why not Tilt the Genos?
« Reply #65 on: June 10, 2018, 12:59:32 AM »
Okay, everybody over to Abby's house for a party! Great setup and view!!!
Current Gear: Genos, SoundCraft mixer, two Bose L1 Compacts, 15 inch sub designed and built by myself, Yamaha HS8 studio monitors, Cubase 8 Artist, Steinberg UR-44.
 

Offline zionip

Re: No Tilt Display! why not Tilt the Genos?
« Reply #66 on: June 10, 2018, 02:13:30 AM »
Okay, everybody over to Abby's house for a party! Great setup and view!!!

Sigh,

I do not and will not take part in the endless Genos pro/contra discussions but MY MY what a nice and stylish living room and even more important what an awesome view you have from there Abby. Makes me eny you a little :D

best regards,
Peter

Hi Lee and Peter,

It looks like Abby showed a photo of his setup at one of his indoor job locations, most likely a hotel, not the living room of his house.  We can deduce this from the restaurant style tables and chairs, the outdoor multiple beach recliners, and the positions of the speakers are at the back of the player, projecting sound to the audience.  Abby's cable / power extension management using Velcro ties is excellent for the job, very tidy and neat.
 
Thanks,
Paul
 

Offline Pianoman

Re: No Tilt Display! why not Tilt the Genos?
« Reply #67 on: June 10, 2018, 02:39:41 AM »
Alas, this is not my house.

Paul got it right. It is one of the hotels where I play. I do have a beachfront view
in front of my apartment though.
 

Best Regards.
Abby.
« Last Edit: June 10, 2018, 02:42:33 AM by Pianoman »
Musicians don't retire; they stop when there's no more music in them.

Louis Armstrong.


Welcome To My YouTube Videos.
https://m.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLJo1iW9nz1GWzeg1QBl-1wVx14CDWlBqx
 

Offline Lee Batchelor

Re: No Tilt Display! why not Tilt the Genos?
« Reply #68 on: June 10, 2018, 06:05:38 AM »
Makes sense. Besides, if that were Abby's living room, they're paying musicians more than I thought, where he lives :).
Current Gear: Genos, SoundCraft mixer, two Bose L1 Compacts, 15 inch sub designed and built by myself, Yamaha HS8 studio monitors, Cubase 8 Artist, Steinberg UR-44.
 

Offline XeeniX

Re: No Tilt Display! why not Tilt the Genos?
« Reply #69 on: June 10, 2018, 07:14:22 AM »
Details...... who cares :D I'd settle for a working space like that  :P
« Last Edit: June 10, 2018, 07:23:33 AM by XeeniX »
 

Re: No Tilt Display! why not Tilt the Genos?
« Reply #70 on: June 10, 2018, 08:39:37 AM »
If they build a tiltable, touch screen, it needs to be VERY robust, otherwise it will be destroyed within a year. We never poked at the T5 screen :).

Hi Everyone,
had to switch from my Genos  to my Tyros (I still carry it with me as a back up) in the middle of a gig this week  because my Genos developed a 50 Hz hum (like the one you hear if the ground in a shielded cable gets detached.  In this case  strangely it turned out it was not a cable problem but an internal defect. Connecting the same cables to the Tyros = no hum. (The Genos is at the service at this moment)  so of course I kept touching  the Tyros screen with no result instead of pushing the buttons, as touching was what I had been doing. The tilted  display did not seem to mind that - of course just did not react.

That of course  is not proof it might not be a problem if it would be touched thousands of times so Lee might be right.
  But if the screen can take the button pushing it might also be able to take the touching.  After all touch screens are touch-screens, not "poking-screens" if calibrated properly. My screen reacts to very light touching.
Will be interesting to see what was the reason for the internal hum, a cold soldering joint or whatever.
Anyway it is clear a fixed screen is both cheaper to manufacture, less accident prone and lighter in weight.  But a tilt screen does have obvious advantages. 

Cheers

Kaarlo
The year you were born is unimportant as long as you can still play your keyboard and don't have to change the treble setting
 

Offline travlin-easy

Re: No Tilt Display! why not Tilt the Genos?
« Reply #71 on: June 11, 2018, 10:55:01 AM »
I talked with Yamaha several years ago about their display inadequacies, to which they replied with some simple statistics. I know these are factual, at least from my own experiences over many decades of performing on stage.

First and foremost, less than 1/10th of 1-percent of arranger keyboards are used for outdoor performances. That a pretty small number of consumers to spend time and money upon for any successful business. Additionally, the vast majority of all outdoor performers, including myself, insist on some sort of cover, not just to see the displays better, but additionally, to protect both themselves and their equipment from the elements, rain, intense heat, hail, snow (which happened to me on one occasion), you name it, it can happen.

Most of the outdoor jobs I performed over the years were either in poolside, Tiki Bars, or private parties for major corporations. Even when playing beneath a large porch roof, I had a great deal of difficulty seeing the displays and button lights on the PSR-3000, which was my workhorse at the time. When I got the S-950, the display had improved significantly, however, you could not use it in direct sunlight and expect to see both the display and buttons clearly enough to perform - same is true with the Tyros series. They are not supertwist, backlighted, LED displays, such as those used in the marine industry. I recently learned that the displays on marine HD GPS-plotters are the most expensive component in the device. (figures!) The remaining components are relatively inexpensive.

So, all this gnashing of teeth, biting of finger nails, and internet bitching will not accomplish much at all. Take a serious look at the number of outdoor performers in your neck of the woods that is even using an arranger keyboard - it amounts to a speck of fly poop in a mountain pepper. Most of the outdoor performers I've come across in my life have been guitar and accordion players - not keyboard or synth players. They show up with their guitar or accordion, plug into an inexpensive amp, fire up their gear and play and sing.

When someone, such as myself shows up with an arranger keyboard at an outdoor job, the very first thing we look for is deep shade in the form of a tent or gazebo. Now, that tent or gazebo better have some drop curtains for when the sun begins to go down. If not, you are screwed big time. When I performed in the Florida Keys, when the sun went down, the dew was so heavy that it dripped off the gazebo's thatched roof like it was raining outside. Imagine all that condensation falling on your expensive gear - not a pretty sight.

My GPS/Plotter that is use for my sailboat sells for $1,200 and has a 7-inch HD display. To me, it's a valuable safety device that makes life on the water a lot safer and easier. It has a super-twist, backlighted LED display that actually gets brighter in direct sunlight. It interfaces with my onboard 3G radar system and Automatic Identification System (AIS). It has as many features as any arranger keyboard on the market, and just like the newer arranger keyboards, there is a steep learning curve that every user must endure to become proficient with the device.

Kaarlos claims there are lots of unhappy Genos owners. Kaarlos, this is not the case with the handful of Genos owners I know personally. Each and every one of the half-dozen owners I have been in close contact with love each and every aspect of their Genos. As I have stated many times in the past, if the Genos is not everything you wanted in an arranger keyboard, then don't buy it! Do some serious research and spend some time traveling to get some hands-on experience with other makes and models that may fulfill your needs more than the Genos, or another Yamaha model. I've done this with arranger keyboards, PA systems, mics, boats, engines - you name it. When I make a serious purchase of anything, it is done after spending lots of time and effort to determine if it will do the job I wish. If it doesn't fit the bill, I don't buy it - it's that simple.

Good luck,

Gary 8)
Love Those Yammies...
 

Offline EileenL

Re: No Tilt Display! why not Tilt the Genos?
« Reply #72 on: June 11, 2018, 08:23:54 PM »
Exactly Gary,
  There have been so many negative posts on this keyboard and I for one have been satisfied with it from the moment I took it out of the box. Mind you I am a sit and play person. What you see is what you get. No Mid Files or plug in's at my gigs. I just sit down and play and I am always asked back.

Offline Bachus

Re: No Tilt Display! why not Tilt the Genos?
« Reply #73 on: June 11, 2018, 09:40:32 PM »
Exactly Gary,
  There have been so many negative posts on this keyboard and I for one have been satisfied with it from the moment I took it out of the box. Mind you I am a sit and play person. What you see is what you get. No Mid Files or plug in's at my gigs. I just sit down and play and I am always asked back.

It doesnít matter how good a product is, there is allways something negatively to be found...

Where it comes to this topic, based on many people using their keyboard for outdoor gigs, one must admit not having a tilted screen is a miss...

But then, us homeplayers donít care for that, as we only use our keys safely in the home...

Seems like Yamaha forgot about a lesson it learned in the past, you need a tilting screen if you want to play outside..

I can post a few dozens of small shortcommings about the Genos(and have done so in the past) yet, i still do agree that the Genos is the best arranger keyboard out there for most people...  but then if your job requires you to use your keyboard outside a lot, you might disagree with this..

I think i would agree with the fact that not having a tilting screen is not the wisiest thing, espescially since i canít think of any reason not to have a tilting screen..
Keyszone.boards.net for all the latest keyboard news and information.
 

Offline EileenL

Re: No Tilt Display! why not Tilt the Genos?
« Reply #74 on: June 11, 2018, 10:02:49 PM »
This editing can still be done on Genos just as we did on our tyros keyboards. The only difference is that you now press Step Record to see your tracks. The only thing I have found missing is on Groove. When grooving a style the ALL button is not there but I have spoken to Yamaha tech dept about this.

Offline travlin-easy

Re: No Tilt Display! why not Tilt the Genos?
« Reply #75 on: June 11, 2018, 11:10:35 PM »
Bachus, I'm fairly confident that my wife of 56 years could sit down and list a couple dozen shortcomings about me, but after more than a half-century she still keeps me around. ;) As for a tilt screen being a  must for outdoor performances, not really. I have personally performed hundreds of outdoor venues without a tilt screen. I always managed to muddle through the jobs, get paid and thought to myself, "Why in the Hell am I doing outdoor jobs?"

Pierre, from my perspective, you can still do those things, but there are different approaches or steps that must be taken. Also, keep in mind that very few individuals want to undergo the learning curve to do all that editing of styles, midi files, etc... on their keyboards - they just want to sit down and play, just the same as they did on a piano many years ago. The big difference is, now they have  a full band behind them and it's much more fun.

All the best,

Gary 8)
Love Those Yammies...
 

Offline Fred Smith

Re: No Tilt Display! why not Tilt the Genos?
« Reply #76 on: June 12, 2018, 01:01:18 AM »
Hey!
Yes, I know what I can do. Have had all Tyros models, but Genos is not in Tyros class yet.

This is how I wrote in January to Yamaha!

Hey!
In Style Creator for Tyros, there was a way to adjust the volume for the entire style with Boost / Cut
but in Genos you can only take A, B, C, D etc. each and every one, heaven hardly, I lacking the variant ALL
hope it will be back in the next upgrade.


And Groove too in style, and there are more things to do, to make it easier.

Now it has been 6 months and nothing has happened, do they work in Japan or has the programmer closed his workshop?
Same as you have to load the midi file every time, was not needed in Tyros.
One more thing, want to load a whole text-file (*.txt) in the editor to make complete midfile with lyrics and split
the words with - as in those big programs. A little too hard do in today's version in Genos.

I have no doubt there will be additional features added to the Genos OS, just like Voice Guide was in 1.30. But these kind of enhancements take a lot more time to develop and distribute than most people think or want.

If you want to maximize the chances your enhancement request will be included, you need to provide as much detail as possible. You need to make it easy for the programmers to understand what you want done. Programmers get lots of complaints. What they need is guidance.

Tell them where you want the "All" icon. Tell them how you want it to operate.

I know this level of detail is tougher than a complaint, but the results will be worth it.

Fred
Fred Smith,
Saskatoon, SK
Sun Lakes, AZ
Genos, Bose L1 compacts, Finale 2015
Check out my Registration Lessons
 

Online Al Ram

Re: No Tilt Display! why not Tilt the Genos?
« Reply #77 on: June 12, 2018, 03:59:28 AM »
As I have stated many times in the past, if the Genos is not everything you wanted in an arranger keyboard, then don't buy it! Do some serious research and spend some time traveling to get some hands-on experience with other makes and models that may fulfill your needs more than the Genos, or another Yamaha model. I've done this with arranger keyboards, PA systems, mics, boats, engines - you name it. When I make a serious purchase of anything, it is done after spending lots of time and effort to determine if it will do the job I wish. If it doesn't fit the bill, I don't buy it - it's that simple.

Gary 8)

Gary
I totally agree . . . . .

Conclusions from this posts ?   Genos display does not tilt . . . .   

I believe the horse has been beaten to death on this one . . . .

Suggestion:  close this post . . . .

thanks
AL
San Diego/Tijuana
 

Offline ton37

Re: No Tilt Display! why not Tilt the Genos?
« Reply #78 on: June 12, 2018, 04:03:51 AM »
Amen  ;)
 

Offline travlin-easy

Re: No Tilt Display! why not Tilt the Genos?
« Reply #79 on: June 12, 2018, 06:28:19 AM »
Done!
Love Those Yammies...