Author Topic: Using an external controller for live control  (Read 389 times)

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Offline DerekA

Using an external controller for live control
« on: May 16, 2018, 08:46:45 PM »
The Genos has a bunch of assignable faders and knobs.

You can buy products like the Korg nanoKONTROL which are designd to work with DAWs. Do you think that these would work with PSR / Tyros? For example assigning a slider/knob to control reverb or DSP depth on th panel voices  without having to navigate to the right page on the mixer?

The data manual lists the MIDI format, and it does have messages related to reverb depth, but I'm not clued up enough on the details

http://www.korg.com/uk/products/computergear/nanokontrol2/
Tyros5
 

Offline Joe H

Re: Using an external controller for live control
« Reply #1 on: May 17, 2018, 03:29:36 AM »
DerekA,

I don't consider those controllers a very serious tool.  But that's because I have a legacy Peavey PC1600x MIDI hardware controller and have doing just that for many years.

The answer to your question is... YES! I do this all the time with my sound modules and S970 keyboard. You have to create a special MIDI Receive configuration though to use an external controller. Depends on what you wish to control... style parts, Multi Pads, song files, R1 / R2, Left, etc.

These Behringer controllers might be a better choice: 

https://www.americanmusical.com/Item--i-BEH-XTOUCHCOMPACT?src=Y0802G00SRCHCAPN&adpos=1o5&scid=scplpBEH+XTOUCHCOMPACT&sc_intid=BEH+XTOUCHCOMPACT&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIhPTzxNeL2wIVB4RpCh104w7kEAQYBSABEgKxpPD_BwE

https://reverb.com/p/behringer-bcf2000-usb-midi-controller-desk?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIhPTzxNeL2wIVB4RpCh104w7kEAQYBCABEgKDkPD_BwE&hfid=12177668

https://reverb.com/item/10678796-behringer-b-control-bcf2000-usb-midi-daw-fader-controller-2008-black

I believe they make a controller with standard 5 pin DIN MIDI ports as well as USB.

Joe H
« Last Edit: May 17, 2018, 03:33:08 AM by Joe H »
Music is the Universal Language!

My Article: Using Multi Pads for EDM. Download Regs, Styles & MPs:  http://psrtutorial.com/music/articles/dancemusic.html
 

Offline DerekA

Re: Using an external controller for live control
« Reply #2 on: May 17, 2018, 12:28:03 PM »
That's very useful Joe, thanks
Tyros5
 

Offline Joe H

Re: Using an external controller for live control
« Reply #3 on: May 17, 2018, 03:13:15 PM »
Derek,

 I suggest you do some homework and sort out your needs/wants then shop around for the controller that will do the job for you.  I'm a bit spoiled by both the Peavey PC1600x and my Motif Rack XS.

The PC1600x needs to be programmed by hexadecimal strings so that means it's totally "open ended" to program ANY MIDI message. And I have a 3rd party PC based editor which makes it easier to program and store my different setups.

The Motif Rack has encoder knobs which not only allow smooth changes, but also displays the original value and the changed value.  The 5 knobs allow me to select 20 different predefined parameters.  Which is much easier than having to write hexadecimal strings.

Joe H
« Last Edit: May 17, 2018, 03:14:35 PM by Joe H »
Music is the Universal Language!

My Article: Using Multi Pads for EDM. Download Regs, Styles & MPs:  http://psrtutorial.com/music/articles/dancemusic.html
 

Offline DerekA

Re: Using an external controller for live control
« Reply #4 on: May 22, 2018, 05:15:57 PM »
I have a fairly simple use case - I want to send various CC messages to L, R1, R2, R3 to mimic live control on reverb depth / DSP depth / cutoff / resonance, and I don't have a lot of space for a large controller. From the Tyros manual I see I can set e.g. L to receive CC messages on channel 1, R1 to receive on channel 2 etc. Then I can set up the midi controller to send out those CC on the right channels.

So far so good.

I have a question though about connecting things together. This Korg controller has a single USB mini B connection. The Tyros has two USB A 'to device' which will carry power/data but I'm not sure if they will carry MIDI. It also has one USB B 'to host' which will carry MIDI but I'm not sure if it will carry power to the controller.

Any advice on whether it will work or not would be appreciated.
Tyros5
 

Offline tyrosaurus

Re: Using an external controller for live control
« Reply #5 on: May 22, 2018, 09:21:08 PM »
Hi Derek,

I can't say for certain that such devices will work with a keyboard directly.

I have never seen any posts on forums saying that they can be used successfully.  Everything that I can remember seeing over the years (they have been around for some time from Korg and Akai for example), seems to suggest that they can't!

I know that JoeH uses his Peavey device with a his instruments, but I don't know if he does this via a computer.

However these devices are designed to be used as cheap control interfaces for a DAW on a computer, which implies that they expect to find a USB Host at the other end of their cable, and possibly require a driver installed in the host device (computer)!

I would have thought that given the low price of them, if anyone had confirmed that they can be used with a keyboard, many people would be using them.  Maybe the issue is just that they require power over USB, I don't know.

Certainly from what I have seen to date, I have not been tempted to buy one just to play around with, even at their low prices!

I will be watching this thread with interest however, just in case you or someone else manages to clarify the situation.

I'm sorry that I couldn't be more help to you about this.


Regards

Ian
 

Offline DerekA

Re: Using an external controller for live control
« Reply #6 on: May 23, 2018, 11:20:11 AM »
No problem Ian. Maybe I will buy one and see if it works or not, then post back what happened.
Tyros5
 

Offline Kevin Sanders

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Re: Using an external controller for live control
« Reply #7 on: May 23, 2018, 12:37:42 PM »
I use an old P60 piano to control my PSR S910 and it is very effective. I simply assign it to channel 1 and give it “keyboard”. All the functionality of the Psr is available through the p60.
What was a little surprising though, was that when you switch the P60 to internal control, it maps the correct voicing on th PSR. This is not the P60 voices “playing through” the PSR, there is no audio connection, only MIDI.
I’m very pleased with it. Also, the sustain pedal on the piano works on all sustainable voices on the PSR, too.
In addition, I have a KX25 hooked in to play the second voice of the PSR and all the modifiers act on that voice until a new one is selected. Playing live, this is very, very useful for me. It means, for instance, that I can have grand piano selected for left and right 1 with say, nice flute on right 2 and be able to play flute with or without piano on the right with no tortured selecting going on.
I think there is enormous scope for live performances using external controls. I even have a DD65 drum set feeding in to play the style’s kit1. Brilliant, but you have to get someone else to ply the drums if you want it live LOL.
I think this level of compatibility is only possible using all Yamaha instruments, but I may be wrong as the first 128 MIDI voices should be standard across manufacturers.
I hope this helps.
PSR S-910, P-60, DD-65, KX-25, CS2X
 

Offline Joe H

Re: Using an external controller for live control
« Reply #8 on: May 23, 2018, 04:09:11 PM »
... I know that Joe H uses his Peavey device with a his instruments, but I don't know if he does this via a computer...

Regards

Ian

I strictly use the dedicated MIDI Ports because I have several sound modules, the hardware controller, a Breath Controller processor from MIDI Solutions, a hardware sequencer, and my PC all connected via a programmable 8 In and 8 Out MIDI patch-bay... which can be re-configured at will.

I suggest staying with an external controller that has actual MIDI ports and not USB-MIDI.  The important thing is to create a special MIDI configuration on the keyboard with the correct MIDI Transmit / Receive settings (and maybe) Local Off, depending on how you wish to work.

Joe H
« Last Edit: May 23, 2018, 04:13:02 PM by Joe H »
Music is the Universal Language!

My Article: Using Multi Pads for EDM. Download Regs, Styles & MPs:  http://psrtutorial.com/music/articles/dancemusic.html
 

Offline DerekA

Re: Using an external controller for live control
« Reply #9 on: May 23, 2018, 04:54:54 PM »
I suggest staying with an external controller that has actual MIDI ports and not USB-MIDI.

Yes I suspect you will be right ...
Tyros5
 

Offline SeaGtGruff

Re: Using an external controller for live control
« Reply #10 on: May 23, 2018, 08:47:57 PM »
Derek, you can use a USB connection for the MIDI, but the USB device(s) must be connected to a USB host.

For example, if you want to connect a USB-MIDI device to a MIDI device, the USB-MIDI device must go to a USB host, then the USB host must use a MIDI connection to go to the MIDI device. In what is probably the most common situation, the USB-MIDI device is connected to a computer (which acts as the USB host), and the MIDI device is connected to the computer using a simple MIDI-to-USB adaptor. Fortunately, there are standalone MIDI USB hosts available from a few different companies, and certain USB audio/MIDI interfaces can also act as USB hosts. But you cannot use a simple MIDI-to-USB adaptor cable to directly connect a USB-MIDI device to a MIDI device, because then there is no USB host between them.

Likewise, you cannot use a simple USB A-to-B cable to directly connect two USB-MIDI devices together, for the same reason.

If you want to directly connect two MIDI devices without needing to purchase any other equipment or go through a computer, MIDI-to-MIDI using the MIDI DIN ports is the way to go.
Michael Rideout
YPT-400, PSR-E433, PSR-E443, PSR-EW400
 

Offline DerekA

Re: Using an external controller for live control
« Reply #11 on: May 23, 2018, 09:06:53 PM »
Thank you Michael that is very useful indeed.

A standalone MIDI host costs more than the Korg controller I was looking at.

So, maybe I should investigate something that uses the DIN ports as you've suggested.
Tyros5
 

Offline ugawoga

Re: Using an external controller for live control
« Reply #12 on: May 23, 2018, 11:53:06 PM »
Hi
My Phatboy controller still works 100%.
 

Offline Kevin Sanders

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Re: Using an external controller for live control
« Reply #13 on: Yesterday at 04:34:49 PM »
Derek, you can use a USB connection for the MIDI, but the USB device(s) must be connected to a USB host.

If you want to directly connect two MIDI devices without needing to purchase any other equipment or go through a computer, MIDI-to-MIDI using the MIDI DIN ports is the way to go.


All my devices are connected through the DIN sockets. To connect everything I need to with the PSR S910 I use a MIDI Merge box - not to be confused with a MIDI mixer - and to go the other way I use the ‘MIDI through’ connectors. Somehow it all works.
PSR S-910, P-60, DD-65, KX-25, CS2X