Author Topic: Sound comparison Tyros versus Genos  (Read 6569 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Sound comparison Tyros versus Genos
« on: May 06, 2018, 07:06:45 AM »
 Hi Everybody, 
 It is claimed we Scandinavians are an irreverent bunch. A few of you you may have heard of the Danish fairy tale "The
 Emperor's New Clothes", some may have seen in the news how the Finnish female president straightened president Bush's tie.
 (She was rightly heavily criticized for that) So please forgive me for attaching two audio files for your consideration as hearing is
 believing. Any comments are highly appreciated.

 Cheers

 Kaarlo
The year you were born is unimportant as long as you can still play your keyboard and don't have to change the treble setting
 
The following users thanked this post: Pianoman

Re: Sound comparison Tyros versus Genos
« Reply #1 on: May 06, 2018, 07:13:03 AM »
Sorry,
only one attachment arrived at its destination,  here hopefully comes the second.
The year you were born is unimportant as long as you can still play your keyboard and don't have to change the treble setting
 

Offline soundphase

Re: Sound comparison Tyros versus Genos
« Reply #2 on: May 06, 2018, 04:39:50 PM »
Hello

I played this very difficult and interesting game.

I agree that difference is very difficult to hear, but the player is very good and it would be perhaps easier to hear differences with a slowler score.

Nevertheless, my guess :
Genos starts until 00 mn :52 s
Then Tyros until :1 mn : 04 s
Then Genos until 1 mn : 29 s
Then Tyros until 1 mn : 43 s
Then Genos

What I called "Genos sound" seems to me a little more metallic, bright with a better bass and natural reverb.

Perhaps I'm totally wrong, and all the score is played by Genos, or all is played by Tyros .... Nevermind, if I'm ridiculous :-)

Soundphase

« Last Edit: May 06, 2018, 04:56:58 PM by soundphase »
 
The following users thanked this post: Pianoman, Kaarlo von Freymann

Offline ugawoga

Re: Sound comparison Tyros versus Genos
« Reply #3 on: May 06, 2018, 05:15:19 PM »
Hi Kaarlo
The differences can also be how they are recorded.
How did you get such a quality clear high end or louder  recording at such a low volume which I listened to on my Internet computer. Also that is only a realtec card inside . I use Focusrite Scarlet on my main music one. I maintain as they say, If It sounds good on a cheap system you are there on a great system
This is something I have been striving for. Even limiting and compressing the hell out of a lemon has not worked.
The Genos Is much more sharper than the Tyros , but that does not mean to say warmer.
The Genos needs more tweaking In my view and can reach a higher quality if worked on.
That is all down to getting used to this Instrument
I would like to know how you got such a high level recording and mp3 at that.
This is what I want to achieve . Also nice resonating piano.
You must have a good Argon Accumulator. ;D

All the best
John :) :)
« Last Edit: May 06, 2018, 05:23:39 PM by ugawoga »
 

Offline soryt

Re: Sound comparison Tyros versus Genos
« Reply #4 on: May 06, 2018, 07:22:07 PM »
I hear differences in the harmonics , but it is also a real stacato song .
If you for example a balad song with long holds and release the difference wil be more clear .
there are so many ways to fine tune the sounds on the Genos and Tyros that it comes very close to each other , but there is a real difference out of the box .
many players plays "out of the box' and some are tweaking a lot , but the Genos has a lot more improvements than only the Cfx piano's

Soryt  :)

 
The following users thanked this post: Kaarlo von Freymann

Offline vbdx66

Re: Sound comparison Tyros versus Genos
« Reply #5 on: May 06, 2018, 07:26:07 PM »
Hi Karloo,

Nice performance but what is the point of comparing the Genos and the Tyros 5 only as far as the piano sound is concerned? If you play mostly piano, a Clavinova or any decent digital piano will be better for piano playing stricto sensu anyway.

What would be more interesting, comparison wise, would be to play the same song with the same styles and the same voices, at the same tempo, with a fully-fledged arrangement, and let people guess whether version A or version B was played on the Tyros 5 or the Genos, or which parts of the same recording, like you did here for A Train.

After all, when you buy an arranger keyboard, you buy it for its great sounding sounds and rhythms, not just for the piano sound, don’t you? So the question really is: which keyboard is better for arranging tunes: the Tyros 5 or the Genos?

Just my two cents,

Best Regards,

Vinciane
Past keyboards: PSR E313, PSR E413, PSR E433, PSR S550, DGX 640, upright piano.
Now: DGX 650, looking for an affordable hype portable keyboard.
 
The following users thanked this post: Kaarlo von Freymann

Re: Sound comparison Tyros versus Genos
« Reply #6 on: May 06, 2018, 08:28:16 PM »
Hi Kaarlo

1 The differences can also be how they are recorded.


2 How did you get such a quality clear high end or louder  recording at such a low volume which I listened to on my Internet computer.

2 The Genos Is much more sharper than the Tyros , but that does not mean to say warmer.

3 The Genos needs more tweaking In my view and can reach a higher quality if worked on.

4 That is all down to getting used to this Instrument

5 I would like to know how you got such a high level recording and mp3 at that.
   This is what I want to achieve . Also nice resonating piano.

6 You must have a good Argon Accumulator. ;D

All the best
John :) :)

Thanks for your very good points. 

1
Yes, how you record does affect the sound. We used the best we had available, digital all the way. And as a fact converting the recorded digital WAV to digital MP3  on the PC using NCH  audio editing software did destroy the slight difference we were able to hear on WAV.  We did not want to do the original recording in MP3 as we were afraid it would so what it did, blur the difference.  As a fact to me MP3 is a no no. All my demo CDs I send to people contemplating to give me a gig are WAV.
With sound it is like with wine tester terminology, hard to find really good words. We felt the Genos was  a little "arier", would say  like the difference in your bedroom when you wake up and then open the window for a minute. But our main point was to show, any difference in sound quality is so minimal that in a performance situation it will not be discernible.

In this case it was just a comparison switching while playing from using one sound= voice file installed on the Genos,  SFX piano to another installed on the Genos voice file, the Tyros Grand Piano.

2
The recording was done from the digital output of the Genos. As with digital outputs in general, output it is not affected by output potentiometer position.  It is (surprisigly) ok to use any high quality RCA  cable to the Tascam digital recorder SS CD R 1 which fortunately as it is intended for studio use unlike many digital recorders does provide a "digital in volume" adjustment in addition to a "digital out" volume adjustment. The level from the Genos was at something like  - 20 dB so  the Tascam was adjusted to a higher  input level in order not to have to process the result recorded to the card.

3
It is true you can tweak sounds,  treble and bass, effects  etc.  In this case nothing was done because I believe keyboards should give their best without tweaking, that's the manufactures duty. And once you start doing that in a comparison you break the rules governing testing procedures.  I was some 30 years ago involved in consumer goods testing and just as an example, if you test washing machine noise level you must make sure everything else is equal, filling degree, filling material location etc.

4
Very good point,  I am used to the Steinway grand (1922 model ) I inherited. And as Steinway says, not one Steinway sounds exactly like the others. And typically I feel mine has the best sound as I have heard it consciously for nearly 8 decades. 

6
You overestimate my knowledge,   I do not have the sligtest idea of what a  Argon Accumulator is. I only know Argon is a non reactive gas.

I am vary happy you made your post,  I have made quite a few that did attract up to 150 readers but nobody felt they were worth or possible to reply to.  Maybe because they were about less wonderful procedures when using the Genos like changing just one instrument in a midi file needing 17 steps.

Cheers

Kaarlo
 
The year you were born is unimportant as long as you can still play your keyboard and don't have to change the treble setting
 

Offline EileenL

Re: Sound comparison Tyros versus Genos
« Reply #7 on: May 06, 2018, 08:41:49 PM »
I really do not see the point of all these comparisons of one keyboard to another. You buy what you consider is best for you. Genos is the best arranger keyboard to be released so far. It is easier to use and quicker in many cases.
  To me this is the best way to hear the voices.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=828Zv3wcvrg
 
 
The following users thanked this post: tyrosman, TotallyKenny

Re: Sound comparison Tyros versus Genos
« Reply #8 on: May 06, 2018, 08:45:21 PM »
Hi Karloo,

Nice performance but what is the point of comparing the Genos and the Tyros 5 only as far as the piano sound is concerned? If you play mostly piano, a Clavinova or any decent digital piano will be better for piano playing stricto sensu anyway.

What would be more interesting, comparison wise, would be to play the same song with the same styles and the same voices, at the same tempo, with a fully-fledged arrangement, and let people guess whether version A or version B was played on the Tyros 5 or the Genos, or which parts of the same recording, like you did here for A Train.

After all, when you buy an arranger keyboard, you buy it for its great sounding sounds and rhythms, not just for the piano sound, don’t you? So the question really is: which keyboard is better for arranging tunes: the Tyros 5 or the Genos?

Just my two cents,

Best Regards,

Vinciane

Thank you very much Vinciane, not two cents but very relevant.  You are 100 % right. I intend to do that when I finally master the 17 steps needed to  tweak a midi file in Genos.  All the files I have are tweaked for Tyros and they do not sound good on Genos.   Why a midi file ?  Because only then you can employ all the different instruments and make a perfect song like all manufacturers do their demo-songs to really see what the instrument is capable of.  I am not able to do a lot of button pushing when playing to styles and then the number of voices presented is definitely very limited.

Cheers

Kaarlo
The year you were born is unimportant as long as you can still play your keyboard and don't have to change the treble setting
 

Offline EileenL

Re: Sound comparison Tyros versus Genos
« Reply #9 on: May 06, 2018, 08:55:10 PM »
A true comparison can only be done fairly by sitting and playing Tyros 5 and then Genos recorded into the Audio recorder and then listening to the recording from that. It will give a truer picture than using a midi file.

Offline tyrosaurus

Re: Sound comparison Tyros versus Genos
« Reply #10 on: May 06, 2018, 09:13:05 PM »
The recording was done from the digital output of the Genos. As with digital outputs in general, output it is not affected by output potentiometer position.

Just for information, page 145 of the Genos Reference Manual says that the output volume level from the [DIGITAL OUT] jack can be adjusted by the 'Digital Out Level' setting on the 'Speaker/Connectivity' page of the 'Utility' menu.

Press [MENU] > touch 'Menu 2' > 'Utility' > 'Speaker/Connectivity' > 'Digital Out Level'


Regards

Ian
 
The following users thanked this post: Kaarlo von Freymann

Offline panos

Re: Sound comparison Tyros versus Genos
« Reply #11 on: May 06, 2018, 09:59:25 PM »
I have read in posts that earlier models have more "sweet" preset voices than the next models.
That means to me that they were many more effects involved in preset voices than it is now.
Someone may like this,but someone may not.
I think is easier (at least to me) to add effects to a voice that is kind of flat,
than trying to find out in first place,which effects are present there to disable them
and then add the effects as YOU like (and not to the liking of the engineer's ears).
When a sound is called "sweet trumpet" or "sweet soprano sax",ok I can accept the "sweetness" and the "smoothness" of that sound.
But if you do this to all sounds, does it really work no matter what genre of music are you playing,what style, in which tempo,whith which voice will you assembly that sound, etc.?

If we are looking for a great piano sound on a Genos or a Tyros I believe we are looking at the wrong place as Vinciane said.
What about the rest 1651 voices,the 58 drumkits,the 358 dsp's effect,550 reworked styles,the 458 multipads etc, of Genos? 
They mean nothing after all?
« Last Edit: May 06, 2018, 10:01:06 PM by panos »
 

Re: Sound comparison Tyros versus Genos
« Reply #12 on: May 06, 2018, 11:09:28 PM »
I really do not see the point of all these comparisons of one keyboard to another. You buy what you consider is best for you. Genos is the best arranger keyboard to be released so far. It is easier to use and quicker in many cases.
  To me this is the best way to hear the voices.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=828Zv3wcvrg
 

Hi Eileen,

Thanks for  posting about this.  I have several times posted questions read by many but left without any answer.

Honestly, I expected some on the site to say "I really do not see the point of all these comparisons of one keyboard to another." 
I am afraid you may be right and it  may very well be the afternoon my friend and I spent making the recording was time spent in vain. The result just confirmed that my hearing is not as bad as it very well might be. The deteriorated hearing of us old people has been a valid point on this site.
 
"The point of all these comparisons" is that there are those like Abby and me  - and hopefully some others also - who do want to evaluate products by comparing price and features and make a cost/benefit analysis, an attitude manufacturers and anyone strongly connected to them  - like for instance dealers who carry just one line - of course dislike and try to eradicate by massive hype. 
I was on the board of an advertising agency for 30 years so how to make people buy something and all the hidden venues to use for that purpose are not completely unknown to me. 

Cheers

Kaarlo
The year you were born is unimportant as long as you can still play your keyboard and don't have to change the treble setting
 

Offline EileenL

Re: Sound comparison Tyros versus Genos
« Reply #13 on: May 06, 2018, 11:52:36 PM »
Hi Kaarlo,
The people I am talking to are buying Genos because they like what they hear and prefer very much a touch screen. On my little forum I must say a lot of my members have gone over to Genos from Tyros 5. They also like that it is lighter to gig with, has in built Expansion Memory thus saving around £300 for having to buy one.
  Yes there is a slightly different learning curve but it dose not take long to come to grips with it. One thing I I I know now is that I would not part with mine.
« Last Edit: May 06, 2018, 11:56:02 PM by EileenL »
 
The following users thanked this post: Kaarlo von Freymann

Offline Pianoman

Re: Sound comparison Tyros versus Genos
« Reply #14 on: May 06, 2018, 11:57:14 PM »
Come on Guys,

There is no need for the defensive but, but, but, buts, every time a subject like this
or such a test comes along.

It should be viewed for what it is, something educative.
It is also essential to always keep an open mind

Kaarlo and his friend took the time and trouble to make this demo, and I think
we should maybe appreciated that.

We may look upon it as a quiz, a hearing test, or whatever reason we may choose.

If I understood correctly, Kaarlo and his friend recorded a song while alternating
between a Genos piano and a T5 piano.

He is now asking us here to identify which piano has been used in which part of
that song.

That should be simple for those who know, or have played either one of these
instruments at one time or another.

Why don't we keep things simple and say we do know, or we don't know.

After all, the question seemed very reasonable, simple, and straightforward.

Best Regards.
Abby.
« Last Edit: May 07, 2018, 12:02:12 AM by Pianoman »
Musicians don't retire; they stop when there's no more music in them.

Louis Armstrong.


Welcome To My YouTube Videos.
https://m.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLJo1iW9nz1GWzeg1QBl-1wVx14CDWlBqx
 
The following users thanked this post: Kaarlo von Freymann

Offline soundphase

Re: Sound comparison Tyros versus Genos
« Reply #15 on: May 07, 2018, 12:03:14 AM »
Come on Guys,

There is no need for the defensive but, but, but, buts, every time a subject like this
or such a test comes along.

It should be viewed for what it is, something educative.
It is also essential to always keep an open mind

Kaarlo and his friend took the time and trouble to make this demo, and I think
we should maybe appreciated that.

We may look upon it as a quiz, a hearing test, or whatever reason we may choose.

If I understood correctly, Kaarlo and his friend recorded a song while alternating
between a Genos piano and a T5 piano.

He is now asking us here to identify which piano has been used in which part of
that song.

That should be simple for those who know, or have played either one of these
instruments at one time or another.

Why don't we keep things simple and say we do know, or we don't know.

After all, the question seemed very reasonable, simple, and straightforward.

Best Regards.
Abby.

Yes !! I tried to answer to this quizz, and I would like to know if I won !!!  ;D
 
The following users thanked this post: Kaarlo von Freymann

Offline ugawoga

Re: Sound comparison Tyros versus Genos
« Reply #16 on: May 07, 2018, 02:53:24 AM »
Hi

Eileen is right on the button for me.

Also It is how the comparison has been recorded and that can swing an argument.
It can be like going to a music shop and hearing a demo on decent set of speakers and come home and not so good on yours.
I must admit that the mp3 recording is good and that is supposed to be way down on a wave file. Being just a piano there is not much for the compression to squeeze out.
The Genos is way above the Tyros in the way you can manipulate It.
I think most people are frightened going forward, but the forward is the only way to go.
Now , I would also say go AAC  for the future or is that another argument!! :o :-X or "oh flac file" :-\  "OGG"!!anybody ::)


All the best
John :)

Ps  I think that there could or should be a section for the ultimate mix where all can share their experiences and discussion on how all the effects and compressions and eq's alter a final song and then a lot of people will see how sound comes together. Just a suggestion. Even I am an amateur at mixing.
You can get great recordings out of anything if you know what to do with years of experience but going forward with the latest gear is the best way to go If you dream.
Also like Eileen has said to me " No pockets In Shrouds"!!! 8) :P :P :P :P :P :P :P
« Last Edit: May 07, 2018, 03:08:29 AM by ugawoga »
 

Re: Sound comparison Tyros versus Genos
« Reply #17 on: May 07, 2018, 03:58:18 AM »
Yes !! I tried to answer to this quizz, and I would like to know if I won !!!  ;D

Thanks,
I will post  at what points the switch between the voice files were made , just waiting for some more comments and what people hear that I can no more hear. 
A beautiful lady - I think her  her name was Antoine - wrote it would be better to have a comparison of an orchestrated file, not just piano, which I agree would in deed better reflect the sound qualities of the keyboards compared.

I have deleted the rest of this post as I am afraid I will get reprimanded  by the administrators..............
 
 

Cheers

Kaarlo
The year you were born is unimportant as long as you can still play your keyboard and don't have to change the treble setting
 

Offline ugawoga

Re: Sound comparison Tyros versus Genos
« Reply #18 on: May 07, 2018, 04:11:41 AM »
Hi Kaarlo

I would not worry as we all have our opinions and that is what makes a discussion.

Here'e Johnny!!!! :o :)
 
The following users thanked this post: Kaarlo von Freymann

Online Eric, B

Re: Sound comparison Tyros versus Genos
« Reply #19 on: May 07, 2018, 04:20:58 AM »
Hi,
I hope I don't offend anybody here ...  ;)
But here it goes:
I have read a lot of posts of people asking others to compare keyboards and which is better.
By now all the specs and technical data is available and we discussed the features and sound et nauseum.
I have never relied on other peoples opinion on what to buy.
It seems to me that only we can answer to what our ears tell us and what our needs are.
Some of the discussions are getting tiresome ...
Do or don't. It seems to me that some people don't seem to be happy no matter what.
It's been said before: "nobody forces us to buy anything"
I get it, that we ask for some pointers etc. But at some point we need to do our own homework and ask: Is this really what I want/need?
In the past I have switched brands and skipped a generation or two, because what was out there wasn't for my needs.
I don't think that constant questions about is this better than this or should I buy this will help anybody.
We all have different needs and hear different things. Thank God.
It would be boring otherwise ...  ;)
I live by a simple rule: If in doubt; leave it out. And: Don't change a winning game  ;)
It really is not rocket science. Some people seem to make things more complicated than they really are.
We are talking about music here and having some fun with it (at least I hope so)
I am with Eileen on this ...
Again: Sorry if I offend anybody
Just some observations  ;)
Regards
Eric
Genos, PSR-S970
 

Offline Pianoman

Re: Sound comparison Tyros versus Genos
« Reply #20 on: May 07, 2018, 07:27:31 PM »
Hello

I played this very difficult and interesting game.

I agree that difference is very difficult to hear, but the player is very good and it would be perhaps easier to hear differences with a slowler score.

Nevertheless, my guess :
Genos starts until 00 mn :52 s
Then Tyros until :1 mn : 04 s
Then Genos until 1 mn : 29 s
Then Tyros until 1 mn : 43 s
Then Genos

What I called "Genos sound" seems to me a little more metallic, bright with a better bass and natural reverb.

Perhaps I'm totally wrong, and all the score is played by Genos, or all is played by Tyros .... Nevermind, if I'm ridiculous :-)

Soundphase

Hello Kaarlo.

I'm afraid you will not get many other people, apart from Soundphase, whom I commend for
his bravery, to stick their neck out and take a guess.

Doing so would involve the risk of getting it wrong, or admitting that one can't tell the
difference, which is a no-no.

It is  much easier to just critise the message, or the messenger.

We seem to be twisting ourselves into Pretzels here in order to avoid giving this a try.

I can't seem to tell the difference, but then I've never owned any of these keyboards.

Good luck with your (quiz?) test.

Best Regards.
Abby.
« Last Edit: May 07, 2018, 09:13:14 PM by Pianoman »
Musicians don't retire; they stop when there's no more music in them.

Louis Armstrong.


Welcome To My YouTube Videos.
https://m.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLJo1iW9nz1GWzeg1QBl-1wVx14CDWlBqx
 
The following users thanked this post: Kaarlo von Freymann

Offline soundphase

Re: Sound comparison Tyros versus Genos
« Reply #21 on: May 07, 2018, 08:07:14 PM »
Hello Kaarlo.

I'm afraid you will not get many other people, apart from Soundphase, whom I commend for
his bravery, to stick their neck out and take a guess.

Doing so would involve the risk if getting it wrong, or admitting that one can't tell the
difference, which is a no-no.

It is  much easier to just critise the message, or the messenger.

We seem to be twisting ourselves into Pretzels here in order to avoid giving this a try.

I can't seem to tell the difference, but then I've never owned any of these keyboards.

Good luck with your (quiz?) test.

Best Regards.
Abby.
For me, it doesn’t mean the Genos is not better than the Tyros. I understand that professionals who consider investments, ask questions. For the others that only play for pleasure, like me, and can afford the purchase, there is no question to ask.
 

Re: Sound comparison Tyros versus Genos
« Reply #22 on: May 07, 2018, 08:16:09 PM »
Yes !! I tried to answer to this quizz, and I would like to know if I won !!!  ;D

Thanks for supporting my idea that it is important to separate hype from fact and taking the quiz.  Awfully sorry, one can only win a competition if there are a minimum of participants. I once participated in the Finnish National Radio Controlled Airplane Aerobatic Finals  as they needed 8 participants and only 7 showed up. Needles to say I was the one with the least points.

Here is what was done: first 4 bars Tyros, then every 4 bars toggled between Genos and Tyros. Easier than using a stop watch.

My quizz was a complete flop as to participation. Not surprising as we have been told, to some the whole idea is a bad one. The Genos is so much better sound wise than the Tyros that people step up to you when you are gigging congratulating you for your new sound.

Unfortunately I had to post an MP3 file due to size restrictions. I for one NEVER use MP3.  It destroys any recording.

When you listen to the original WAV file you actually with good speakers can discern a  IMHO very slight difference. The Genos
piano sounds a little "earier" .  Its difficult to put in words,   like  when you open he window when you wake up in the morning.

Cheers

Kaarlo
The year you were born is unimportant as long as you can still play your keyboard and don't have to change the treble setting
 

Offline DerekA

Re: Sound comparison Tyros versus Genos
« Reply #23 on: May 07, 2018, 08:57:27 PM »
Kaarlo, sorry to be stupid but I don't quite understand what you compared.

Did you play the music on a Tyros 5 and a Genos, and create an MP3 that merged the two outputs? Or were you playing a Genos only, and swapping between two voices on the Genos (e.g. CFX and ConcertGrand)?

Thanks
Tyros5
 

Offline Pianoman

Re: Sound comparison Tyros versus Genos
« Reply #24 on: May 07, 2018, 09:24:44 PM »
Hello Derek.

I believe that his friend was playing this one song on the Genos and Kaarlo was switching
between a Genos  piano and a T5 piano every 4 bars.

If I understood correctly, he was switching between the Genos CFX and the T5 Concert Grand
during the playing of the song, both pianos being played on the Genos.

He had somehow copied the T5 piano and put it in the Genos.

Best Regards.
Abby.
« Last Edit: May 07, 2018, 09:26:21 PM by Pianoman »
Musicians don't retire; they stop when there's no more music in them.

Louis Armstrong.


Welcome To My YouTube Videos.
https://m.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLJo1iW9nz1GWzeg1QBl-1wVx14CDWlBqx
 

Offline jwyvern

Re: Sound comparison Tyros versus Genos
« Reply #25 on: May 07, 2018, 10:40:25 PM »
Hello Derek.

I believe that his friend was playing this one song on the Genos and Kaarlo was switching
between a Genos  piano and a T5 piano every 4 bars.

If I understood correctly, he was switching between the Genos CFX and the T5 Concert Grand
during the playing of the song, both pianos being played on the Genos.

He had somehow copied the T5 piano and put it in the Genos.

Best Regards.
Abby.

If that is how Kaarlo ran the comparison it is not technically possible to copy preset voices from one keyboard to another. But it would be unnecessary since the Ty5 pianos are already present on Genos in the Legacy folder.
Running the comparison in the way described above (if indeed it was) may introduce some "unfairness" since the Concert Grand has the benefit of the Genos sound engine reproducing it, which it would not have if played on a Tyros.
When for curiosity I play the CG on Genos it sounds a lot fuller than it used to on Ty4 or Ty5, ;)


John
« Last Edit: May 07, 2018, 11:32:17 PM by jwyvern »
 

Offline soundphase

Re: Sound comparison Tyros versus Genos
« Reply #26 on: May 07, 2018, 11:04:37 PM »
I just played Consolation number 3 from Liszt on Genos mainly using CFX piano.

https://youtu.be/4yLRdf62t8E

I’m totally sure my results wouldn’t have been the same with my Tyros 5 and its « concert grand »
 
The following users thanked this post: Kaarlo von Freymann

Offline DerekA

Re: Sound comparison Tyros versus Genos
« Reply #27 on: May 07, 2018, 11:30:58 PM »

Running the comparison in the way described above (if indeed it was) may introduce some "unfairness" since the Concert Grand has the benefit of the Genos sound engine reproducing it, which it would not have if played on a Tyros.

John

Well exactly. Surely this comparison only has any meaning if one voice came from a physical T5 and the other from a Genos. Othewise, who's to say Yamaha aren't just using the same sample for CFX and GrandPiano on Genos, while the GrandPiano on Tyros is a different sample.
Tyros5
 

Re: Sound comparison Tyros versus Genos
« Reply #28 on: May 08, 2018, 12:14:00 AM »
Hello Derek.

I believe that his friend was playing this one song on the Genos and Kaarlo was switching
between a Genos  piano and a T5 piano every 4 bars.

If I understood correctly, he was switching between the Genos CFX and the T5 Concert Grand
during the playing of the song, both pianos being played on the Genos.

He had somehow copied the T5 piano and put it in the Genos.

EXACTLY !

Best Regards.
Abby.
The year you were born is unimportant as long as you can still play your keyboard and don't have to change the treble setting
 

Re: Sound comparison Tyros versus Genos
« Reply #29 on: May 11, 2018, 08:49:35 AM »
Well exactly. Surely this comparison only has any meaning if one voice came from a physical T5 and the other from a Genos. Othewise, who's to say Yamaha aren't just using the same sample for CFX and GrandPiano on Genos, while the GrandPiano on Tyros is a different sample.

I am a little confused,  have I gotten that wrong ?  I  thought the  advertised better sound of the Genos compared to Tyros 5 was due to new better voice samples.

https://usa.yamaha.com/products/musical_instruments/keyboards/arranger_workstations/genos/features.html

I had one of the first dedicated sample units (expanders) in the 1980is, cannot remember the brand name,  It was acceptable for muted trumpets but not the for piano. Not surprisingly there were those who had bought the unit and claimed the "interpolation" was inaudible.
The problem was there were,  only 3 samples per octave. The notes in between were arrived at by "interpolation". 
YAMAHA  long ago  started to have one sample  for every note, and now they  even sample the  same note at different velocities and in stereo. 
What we did was compare the sound quality of voices by switching from  an "imported" Tyros  grand piano sample (not legacy) to the CFX  grand piano sample on the Genos.

The playing was done on the Genos and digitally recorded, so the Tyros sample may have "benefitted" from being reproduced by the Genos.  I believe  is difficult to switch between  two separate keyboards without the switching being audible.
I do agree with the notion, it would be best to set up both keyboards in a "live" environment connected to the same PA system and then let the player  during his performance use both keyboards alternatively and having a blindfolded group of  average musical persons  listen and lift their right or left hand indicating which instrument they are hearing.  I would not be surprised they might  very well be able to hear a difference in case there is complete silence.
But that again does not represent a valid test condition.  You would have to fill the place with the "normal" noise.  My professional meter usually shows  75 dB - 85 dB.
 
This was not about whether you should buy the Genos or not, this was just about not believing those who claim the audience hears a difference, in which case a professional musician using the keyboard as a tool for revenue would be well advised to consider exchanging his Tyros for the Genos which in that case would not only make YAMAHA money but might make him some money also. 
I have  - better late than never-  understood most on this site feel like Eileen,  comparisons are futile and finding the truth is not what we are interested in. That is probably why I never check what my wife does. ;D

Cheers

Kaarlo
The year you were born is unimportant as long as you can still play your keyboard and don't have to change the treble setting
 

Offline voodoo

Re: Sound comparison Tyros versus Genos
« Reply #30 on: May 11, 2018, 05:06:36 PM »
What we did was compare the sound quality of voices by switching from  an "imported" Tyros  grand piano sample (not legacy) to the CFX  grand piano sample on the Genos.
Kaarlo

Hi Kaarlo,

thank you very for doing this test. I love tests of this kind, just for pure science reasons, because we want to know how things work. Very appreciated.

However, I think the title of your post could have been chosen more wisely. In fact, it ts not

* Sound comparison Tyros vs. Genos

But it is

* Comparison of one Tyros voice played on Genos vs. one Genos voice

This is a completely different thing. But this is still very relevant, since we all want to know whether the quality of the piano voices have been augmented from Tyros to Genos.

And what is your conclusion? Do you think the new voices are better? Or even, are they different? Recently I bought the soundpack "3 Grand Pianos" from Phantawalker. Yes, theses samples are very different form the built in Genos samples. I still don't know if they are better. Perhaps I will use them for appropriate occasions.

Kind regards
Uli

Yamaha Genos
Yamaha MODX7
Nord Electro 5D
 

Offline ugawoga

Re: Sound comparison Tyros versus Genos
« Reply #31 on: May 11, 2018, 08:21:22 PM »
Thanks for your very good points. 

1
Yes, how you record does affect the sound. We used the best we had available, digital all the way. And as a fact converting the recorded digital WAV to digital MP3  on the PC using NCH  audio editing software did destroy the slight difference we were able to hear on WAV.  We did not want to do the original recording in MP3 as we were afraid it would so what it did, blur the difference.  As a fact to me MP3 is a no no. All my demo CDs I send to people contemplating to give me a gig are WAV.
With sound it is like with wine tester terminology, hard to find really good words. We felt the Genos was  a little "arier", would say  like the difference in your bedroom when you wake up and then open the window for a minute. But our main point was to show, any difference in sound quality is so minimal that in a performance situation it will not be discernible.

In this case it was just a comparison switching while playing from using one sound= voice file installed on the Genos,  SFX piano to another installed on the Genos voice file, the Tyros Grand Piano.

2
The recording was done from the digital output of the Genos. As with digital outputs in general, output it is not affected by output potentiometer position.  It is (surprisigly) ok to use any high quality RCA  cable to the Tascam digital recorder SS CD R 1 which fortunately as it is intended for studio use unlike many digital recorders does provide a "digital in volume" adjustment in addition to a "digital out" volume adjustment. The level from the Genos was at something like  - 20 dB so  the Tascam was adjusted to a higher  input level in order not to have to process the result recorded to the card.

3
It is true you can tweak sounds,  treble and bass, effects  etc.  In this case nothing was done because I believe keyboards should give their best without tweaking, that's the manufactures duty. And once you start doing that in a comparison you break the rules governing testing procedures.  I was some 30 years ago involved in consumer goods testing and just as an example, if you test washing machine noise level you must make sure everything else is equal, filling degree, filling material location etc.

4
Very good point,  I am used to the Steinway grand (1922 model ) I inherited. And as Steinway says, not one Steinway sounds exactly like the others. And typically I feel mine has the best sound as I have heard it consciously for nearly 8 decades. 

6
You overestimate my knowledge,   I do not have the sligtest idea of what a  Argon Accumulator is. I only know Argon is a non reactive gas.

I am vary happy you made your post,  I have made quite a few that did attract up to 150 readers but nobody felt they were worth or possible to reply to.  Maybe because they were about less wonderful procedures when using the Genos like changing just one instrument in a midi file needing 17 steps.

Cheers

Kaarlo


Hi Kaarlo
You did not answer question 5, unless it's top secret!! :o

But An Argon Accumulator Is a device for squeezing Space so you can travel accross the peaks like a wave file with a little  bit of compression.
You would of course need a space vehicle of some kind. The result means you get from A to B a lot quicker Instead of light years.
 Hawkwind seems to know about all of this because they have a Silver Machine!!!Oh well we can all dream!!! ::) :P ;D

Like music ,It is all about frequencies ,vibrations and wavelengths and a load of mushroom fodder.


All the best
John :)
« Last Edit: May 11, 2018, 08:37:40 PM by ugawoga »
 

Offline Pianoman

Re: Sound comparison Tyros versus Genos
« Reply #32 on: May 12, 2018, 01:02:13 AM »
Hello Kaarlo.

Thank you for the quiz, which I found interesting in that it simply encouraged the
listener to spot the difference between one piano and another, and where in the
song did that difference take place.

As you have seen, not many people, other than Soundphase, and Soryt in a way,
wanted to stick their neck out and take a guess.

Like I have said in another post above, taking a guess entailed the risk of getting
it wrong, or admitting that one can't tell the difference, which many have avoided
doing.

Instead, as you have seen, 90% of the responses have concentrated on diversion,
rather than just giving a simple yes or no answer.

I guess it's partly because many of us humans consider ourselves infallible,
so admitting that we don't know something becomes extremely difficult.

It would have been interesting though, to see who could have spotted the
difference, and where.

Best Regards.
Abby.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2018, 01:20:01 AM by Pianoman »
Musicians don't retire; they stop when there's no more music in them.

Louis Armstrong.


Welcome To My YouTube Videos.
https://m.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLJo1iW9nz1GWzeg1QBl-1wVx14CDWlBqx
 

Offline DerekA

Re: Sound comparison Tyros versus Genos
« Reply #33 on: May 12, 2018, 01:52:41 AM »
Abby - I didn't hear any differences.

I don't think we were actually hearing two different piano samples at all.

I would be very interested to hear the same comparison switching between ConcertGrand recorded on a Tyros 5, and CFX Grand recorded on a Genos.
Tyros5
 

Re: Sound comparison Tyros versus Genos
« Reply #34 on: May 12, 2018, 04:09:13 AM »
Hi Kaarlo,
....... However, I think the title of your post could have been chosen more wisely. In fact, it is not

.... Sound comparison Tyros vs. Genos.

But it is Comparison of one Tyros voice played on Genos vs. one Genos voice

This is a completely different thing. But this is still very relevant, since we all want to know whether the quality of the piano voices have been augmented from Tyros to Genos.

And what is your conclusion? Do you think the new voices are better? Or even, are they different? .....

Kind regards
Uli

Hi Uli,
You are right, the title should have been "How much better is the  Genos piano sound compared to the Tyros piano sound"

For me the piano sound is VERY IMPORTAT. My conclusion is, it is better, You can when you play in your studio or on  a WAVE  recording made from the digital out of the Genos hear a slight difference.  I do not know how to describe it, maybe the word "aerier" somehow  says something or  "a bit like the difference between stereo and mono".
 
My reason for going to all this trouble was that the difference is so small that already converting the recording to MP3  makes it for me inaudible and as a result I am convinced that in gig circumstances it will not be recognized. 
And admittedly,  as a YAMAHA keyboarder since the early 1990s  I felt uncomfortable when people  post they are congratulated at gigs for their wonderful new keyboard due to its sound.
For me it seems a fact that  the sampling technology of YAMAHA  has reached a perfection with the Tyros line that cannot be much improved upon.  And in this department "the law of diminishing return"  seems very real. ( I have not even considered or listened  to any other makes as learning a new system is out of the question at my age) 
Claims that  upgrading to Genos is worthwhile for a gigging musician due to the difference in sound has  for me a hollow (commercial) ring. 
What does not have a hollow ring to me is people saying,

         I have the money, I want the latest, I believe it is the best and there is no space for bills in my coffin.
 
The Genos has many advantages over the Tyros 5/6 that are indisputable, weight, size, sliders, assignable buttons  etc.  One excellent feature that weighs very heavily for me is the STYLE CREATOR  with which I have tweaked over 100 styles of various provenience  that until Genos were unusable.
 
Why would I have bothered to spend  4 months digging into Genos if it did not offer very appealing features ?
There is no need for making unrealistic claims. IMHO  it is counterproductive even from a commercial point of view not to admit there still are  things in the Genos that need to be fixed.  It is  OK to point out  that something  needed is not implemented so it is not a bug, but denying an obvious implementation error distracts from the allure of the product  makes me wonder whether the posters are like those who post  Putin and Trump are just fantastic.

Cheers

Kaarlo
 
The year you were born is unimportant as long as you can still play your keyboard and don't have to change the treble setting
 

Offline panos

Re: Sound comparison Tyros versus Genos
« Reply #35 on: May 12, 2018, 06:03:41 AM »
Kaarlo I can see your point of view but when a keyboard is playing a style there are more voices been heard than a right hand voice.
Combining them together you have a number of sounds that can make a difference between two keyboards (3 RH voices+LH voice+8 part voices+effects etc).
And I think that is what they probably mean about the difference of the sound between them.

If the audience can understand the difference?
I don't know.I don't gig to have personal opinion about their comments and what they hear.
I guess they are probably more focus on eating,drinking and chatting rather than analyzing what they hear.

I will also mention the fact that the kind of music that someone may plays, defines the kind of styles and sounds he is using.
For new pop music unfortunately for us the newer the keyboard, the better.
Or if it is traditional or even modern but non western music, probably a grand piano sound isn't going to be used at all but the revo drums can make a difference. 

I didn't like windows 10 so I didn't installed them neither at home or at my pc at work, because i don't use or have to use many of their new features.
But for someone who is more familiar than me in using smartphones/tablets/I pads,
their interface maybe more convinied to him so I never asked to myself "Why did he do it"?

Re: Sound comparison Tyros versus Genos
« Reply #36 on: May 12, 2018, 07:50:23 AM »
Kaarlo I can see your point of view but when a keyboard is playing a style there are more voices been heard than a right hand voice.
Combining them together you have a number of sounds that can make a difference between two keyboards (3 RH voices+LH voice+8 part voices+effects etc).
And I think that is what they probably mean about the difference of the sound between them.

If the audience can understand the difference?
I don't know.I don't gig to have personal opinion about their comments and what they hear.
I guess they are probably more focus on eating,drinking and chatting rather than analyzing what they hear.

I will also mention the fact that the kind of music that someone may plays, defines the kind of styles and sounds he is using.
For new pop music unfortunately for us the newer the keyboard, the better.
Or if it is traditional or even modern but non western music, probably a grand piano sound isn't going to be used at all but the revo drums can make a difference. 

I didn't like windows 10 so I didn't installed them neither at home or at my pc at work, because i don't use or have to use many of their new features.
But for someone who is more familiar than me in using smartphones/tablets/I pads,
their interface maybe more convinied to him so I never asked to myself "Why did he do it"?

Thanks Panos for a post that consoled me. Everything you wrote is exactly what I believe things are.
  And BTW No windows 10 here, no tablet, not even a smart phone  ;D.  Widows 7 in the office because I believed the b....t that my book keeping would crash because XP would become the cyber criminals target.  XP on the lap top I must use to adjust the autopilots in UAVs. I am still involved  in the RD of new  UAVs for the Finnish defense forces.   Contrary to what was claimed  XP has worked flawlessly since end of support and so has my YAMAHA 5700  (1992)  The Genos has some fantastic advantages. There is no disagreement whatsoever on that. But I will wait until they get the bugs that are claimed not to exist straightened out. 

Cheers
Kaarlo

The year you were born is unimportant as long as you can still play your keyboard and don't have to change the treble setting
 

Offline stephenm52

Re: Sound comparison Tyros versus Genos
« Reply #37 on: May 12, 2018, 08:31:59 AM »
Hi,
I hope I don't offend anybody here ...  ;)
never r

It really is not rocket science. Some people seem to make things more complicated than they really are.
We are talking about music here and having some fun with it (at least I hope so)
I am with Eileen on this ...
Again: Sorry if I offend anybody
Just some observations  ;)
Regards
Eric

Great post Eric!
GENOS, Clavinova CVP 307, PSR s970, Korg Pa4x-76

Steve's Genos Recordings

Steve's Gig Disks
 

Offline Bachus

Re: Sound comparison Tyros versus Genos
« Reply #38 on: May 12, 2018, 11:28:19 PM »
I compared them yesterday..  for a few hours... 
Genos vs Tyros..

And if you know that the AWM2 sound engine in both instruments is exactly the same
And most samples where also in the T5, then many of the sounds are near to the same..

However, where it comes to new sounds.. like the upgraded piano’s
Then there is clearly a difference, ..
And this goes for all new sounds in the Genos, they are of the highest quallity
Same for the EVO drum sounds, these ar not on T5 and are better then everything the T5 has to offer.
Total sample memmory of Genos is 3 time sthe size of the T5 if i am right
And all this memmory is used for maybe 100+ new sounds..
Another huge step is the number of new sa2 sounds..

Where the Genos makes the biggest step in sound quallity, is the DSP section
Having 28 insert effects is a huge step for the overall creativity and sound quallity..
Espescially for people like me that love improving sounds trough dsp..

Also i think some of the improved and new styles are musically more to my liking and more live sounding then its predecessors.. 

The weak point to me, for both instruments from Yamaha is their synth sounds, this is where i definately like the pa4x and espescially my Kronos so much better. But i realise this sound cattegory is not the most important to most arranger players

Fun thing is, the 2 things that set  Genos appart from T5 most are not directly sound related.
First there is the much lower weight, which is a real deal for gigging musicians.
And then there is the whole new interface with..
- live controlls
- touchscreen
- assignable buttons
- joystick (love the extra button)

Which for me makes the whole experience just so much more enjoyable on a Genos.
The Genos is the best arranger keyboard available right now.
(Which i have allways said, even tough all my intial criticisme still stands)

I also like it more then my current pa4x..
Not just for the more wellrounded sound
But mostly for the filehandling where it comes to styles and performances..
Its a god blessing to be able to play directly from directories on a USB stick.. amd chnaging between them on the fly..

As i have allways said, i will not buy any arranger in the first 6 months after release
I am right now in the phase of deciding to buy a Genos, yes or no, thats the question..
Its a lot of money for replacing something you are allready quite happy with.
All depends on how much i will be able to get for my pa4x..


Let me finish with this...
Both the Genos and the Tyros5 as well as the Korg Pa4x are incredible instruments..
And the differences are in the small details..

Just play what makes you happy and enjoy it..
Or just enjoy the best you can afford..
Because there are no bad instruments these days
So its all about enjoying the music you make..

Keyszone.boards.net for all the latest keyboard news and information.
 
The following users thanked this post: terryB, fjafan, Kaarlo von Freymann

Offline stephenm52

Re: Sound comparison Tyros versus Genos
« Reply #39 on: May 12, 2018, 11:55:28 PM »
Bachus,  Good job with your review, thanks for the in-depth write up.
GENOS, Clavinova CVP 307, PSR s970, Korg Pa4x-76

Steve's Genos Recordings

Steve's Gig Disks
 

Offline ton37

Re: Sound comparison Tyros versus Genos
« Reply #40 on: May 13, 2018, 12:06:21 AM »
Thank you for your review @Bachus (and other reviewers too  ;)).
Could you (or anyone else) clarify more about this quoted item:
 
I compared them yesterday..  for a few hours... 
Genos vs Tyros..
........
'quoting'...
The weak point to me, for both instruments from Yamaha is their synth sounds, this is where i definately like the pa4x and espescially my Kronos so much better. But i realise this sound cattegory is not the most important to most arranger players

.......
For me the Synths are an important isue in a keyboard (for EDM).
@Bachus, do you mean that the existing (preset) Synthsounds are not satisfing you? Could they be improved by the user or by third-party venues? What I want to know if those new DSP's could be used to improved a particular synthsound to ones need? Then save it for future use? Or is it technical not possible within the Genos?

I know that it is possible in various ways to get better/customed synths, but I just want to have it in 1 (one) keyboard.
I'm not interested in other keyboard brands/vst's etc. Just asking to clarify your statement, as I'm not knowing the Genos, but heavenly considering to obtain one ;)
Thanks in advance.
« Last Edit: May 13, 2018, 01:34:33 AM by ton37 »
 

Offline DonM

Re: Sound comparison Tyros versus Genos
« Reply #41 on: May 13, 2018, 12:17:37 AM »
I compared them yesterday..  for a few hours... 
Genos vs Tyros..

And if you know that the AWM2 sound engine in both instruments is exactly the same
And most samples where also in the T5, then many of the sounds are near to the same..

However, where it comes to new sounds.. like the upgraded piano’s
Then there is clearly a difference, ..
And this goes for all new sounds in the Genos, they are of the highest quallity
Same for the EVO drum sounds, these ar not on T5 and are better then everything the T5 has to offer.
Total sample memmory of Genos is 3 time sthe size of the T5 if i am right
And all this memmory is used for maybe 100+ new sounds..
Another huge step is the number of new sa2 sounds..

Where the Genos makes the biggest step in sound quallity, is the DSP section
Having 28 insert effects is a huge step for the overall creativity and sound quallity..
Espescially for people like me that love improving sounds trough dsp..

Also i think some of the improved and new styles are musically more to my liking and more live sounding then its predecessors.. 

The weak point to me, for both instruments from Yamaha is their synth sounds, this is where i definately like the pa4x and espescially my Kronos so much better. But i realise this sound cattegory is not the most important to most arranger players

Fun thing is, the 2 things that set  Genos appart from T5 most are not directly sound related.
First there is the much lower weight, which is a real deal for gigging musicians.
And then there is the whole new interface with..
- live controlls
- touchscreen
- assignable buttons
- joystick (love the extra button)

Which for me makes the whole experience just so much more enjoyable on a Genos.
The Genos is the best arranger keyboard available right now.
(Which i have allways said, even tough all my intial criticisme still stands)

I also like it more then my current pa4x..
Not just for the more wellrounded sound
But mostly for the filehandling where it comes to styles and performances..
Its a god blessing to be able to play directly from directories on a USB stick.. amd chnaging between them on the fly..

As i have allways said, i will not buy any arranger in the first 6 months after release
I am right now in the phase of deciding to buy a Genos, yes or no, thats the question..
Its a lot of money for replacing something you are allready quite happy with.
All depends on how much i will be able to get for my pa4x..


Let me finish with this...
Both the Genos and the Tyros5 as well as the Korg Pa4x are incredible instruments..
And the differences are in the small details..

Just play what makes you happy and enjoy it..
Or just enjoy the best you can afford..
Because there are no bad instruments these days
So its all about enjoying the music you make..


Exactly!  I'm about ready to find a Genos to audition.  I agree with everything you said!

Offline Gunnar Jonny

Re: Sound comparison Tyros versus Genos
« Reply #42 on: May 13, 2018, 12:26:14 AM »
.. I'm about ready to find a Genos to audition.

WOW, good news Don, because that tell us your healt is better!
Only wish I could be there to hear you pick at those lovely Genos guitars. :)


Quote @Bachus:
Just play what makes you happy and enjoy it..
Or just enjoy the best you can afford..
Because there are no bad instruments these days
So its all about enjoying the music you make..


So true!  8)

Cheers & Happy Playing.  :)
GJ
_______________________________________________
"Success is not counted by how high you have climbed
but by how many you brought with you." (Wil Rose)
 

Offline Bachus

Re: Sound comparison Tyros versus Genos
« Reply #43 on: May 13, 2018, 04:28:24 AM »
Thank you for your review @Bachus (and other reviewers too  ;)).
Could you (or anyone else) clarify more about this quoted item:
 For me the Synths are an important isue in a keyboard (for EDM).
@Bachus, do you mean that the existing (preset) Synthsounds are not satisfing you? Could they be improved by the user or by third-party venues? What I want to know if those new DSP's could be used to improved a particular synthsound to ones need? Then save it for future use? Or is it technical not possible within the Genos?

I know that it is possible in various ways to get better/customed synths, but I just want to have it in 1 (one) keyboard.
I'm not interested in other keyboard brands/vst's etc. Just asking to clarify your statement, as I'm not knowing the Genos, but heavenly considering to obtain one ;)
Thanks in advance.

Its just personal preference i guess
I never liked the yamaha analogueish synth sounds
(Except for the cs80 series, but the those where really authentic)
(And offcourse the dx and vl synths)

In general yamaha sounds very warm..
Thats what i really like about yamaha
But synths sometimes need to be crispy harsh and dynamic
Personally i think yamaha sticks to much to the warm side of the spectrum.
And not just with Genos but will their AWM synths..

Offcourse, you can do quite some edditing
To edit them and make them more your own..
Or even load a whole bunch of samples in the expansion memmory..

Another thing id lfo’s..
The awm2 has 3 lfo’s..
In Genos You can’t assign them freely
They are typically assigned to pitch, amplitude and filter
They are used to  create vibrato tremmolo and wah..

For more advanced synth sounds
You would like to assign them to other parameters
Like pan, attack or a delay
Making synth sounds much more dynamic in nature.

And then there are the filters..
I don’t think any other synth engine has as many options as the awm2
But the filter quallity is in my book average at best..
And filter performance is one of the most important things for EDM..
Many of the wellknown effects we know in todays EDM are created by manipulating filter cutoff and resonance..

But then, in the end, Genos is not a synth..
Its an arranger..  and the soundengine is created for o so many more sounds then just synths..
Keyszone.boards.net for all the latest keyboard news and information.
 

Offline panos

Re: Sound comparison Tyros versus Genos
« Reply #44 on: May 13, 2018, 06:12:24 AM »
Ton these are the Genos effects.
Reverb 59 Preset + 3 User
Chorus 107 Preset + 3 User
DSP    Variation: 358 Preset (with VCM) + 3 User | Insertion 1-28: 358 Preset (with VCM) + 10 User

You can use them to any voice to change and save it as a new voice as we can do it in other models.
There are preset synth voices to do it.
But if you want to create a new voice that doesn't exist on Genos or any other Yamaha keyboard you can create that voice on a pc and then insert the voice to Genos.

I saw Jan taking a .wav format voice and use it for his s970.
https://www.psrtutorial.com/forum/index.php/topic,43485.msg343550.html#msg343550

I guess this way he can create his own voices for his packs except from modifying the preset voices.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xKMCMKzVg20

Genos's synth voices and effects are limited compared to a synthesizer's
but maybe a synthesizer's voices and effects are limited compare to a pc
so the good thing is that we have so many options nowdays that is hard to choose. :)

« Last Edit: May 13, 2018, 06:14:33 AM by panos »
 

Offline ton37

Re: Sound comparison Tyros versus Genos
« Reply #45 on: May 13, 2018, 06:51:31 AM »
Thank you @Bachus & @Panos, this is good to read. For me this style of music (EDM etc.) is being underexposed in the Genos Demoes. I'v sold my T5 (76) because is was to large for installing in my studio.
I was looking for a T5 (61) momentairly. But the more I read/listen etc. concerning the Genos I am parking the hunt for a T5(61) and consider again to focus on the Genos.
So thank you again for your replies. Mmm.. luxury problems are here again  ;) Regards Ton
 

Offline panos

Re: Sound comparison Tyros versus Genos
« Reply #46 on: May 13, 2018, 09:18:35 AM »
Tyros 5 preset dance styles
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-EI85MEXHLw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EAciHmQkKkI

Genos preset dance styles
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5KlHMMGMbII&t=7231s

Genos advertising & promotion I guess was supposed to be for us, the older guys who can afford an expencive keyboard and because we are older we don't like to play new music that much or at least if we do,we are the big minority (that's true  ;D)
So lets advertise the brand new cfx piano sound,the new "oldies but goodies" styles etc

But if you are young and still have not much money to spend for a keyboard,
here is the advertisment for the e-series.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=91ViS-_FEOM
I wonder if it has a piano sound in it, but if you are a teenage who cares (they thought)
i am just kidding  :D
 
« Last Edit: May 13, 2018, 09:24:29 AM by panos »
 

Offline Pino

Re: Sound comparison Tyros versus Genos
« Reply #47 on: May 13, 2018, 11:28:03 AM »
Hi Panos, good post.

I’m think that you are 100% correct

Do you think that’s the reason that Yamaha has not updated the sequencer and the style creator for the past 20 years because they believe that the older players (can’t take it with us- gang) will never use it.

Are you saying that they have made a nice cabinet with nice sounds and that’s it.

Seems a shame to me that we cannot easily edit and make new styles from midi like Korg and Ketron and be able to easily output midi to a dedicated PC sequencer like Cubase for Genos. (Yamaha owned)

Do you think that Genos 2 will have more styles and more sounds ONLY, and the older players will still go out and buy it because,  "we cant take it with us" or as Eileen says, “there’s no pockets in shrouds,”

This whole thing is beginning to sound like a joke,

Will YAMAHA ever make a real “Arranger Keyboard’ with arranging tools that suits a "style based" instrument or will they stick to playing this game for the sake of making money,?

My guess is that we will have Genos 5 and still no real “style editing”
I was hoping that Yamaha would have turned out a few iPad apps by now.
Then players would be happy and players/style editors would be happy.

There was much better editing on the Technics keyboards of 25 years ago

Just my take,

Pino


« Last Edit: May 13, 2018, 11:30:47 AM by Pino »
S910 - S950 - S975 - Ketron SD40 - Maui 5s
 

Offline Fred Smith

Re: Sound comparison Tyros versus Genos
« Reply #48 on: May 13, 2018, 11:54:36 AM »

There was much better editing on the Technics keyboards of 25 years ago


Guess you should have stuck with Technics, because from what you said, Yamaha isn't for you.

Good thing there are other companies catering to your marketplace so you don't have to put up with Yamaha's inferior products.

Fred
Fred Smith,
Saskatoon, SK
Sun Lakes, AZ
Genos, Bose L1 compacts, Finale 2015
Check out my Registration Lessons
 

Offline Pino

Re: Sound comparison Tyros versus Genos
« Reply #49 on: May 13, 2018, 12:33:11 PM »
Fred,
I still have Technics, Korg and Ketron keyboards
But,
I have been using Yamaha keyboards for my gigs for the past 10 years
I know Yamaha styles inside and out and I like Yamaha styles,
I can play over the intros and endings, I know each one,
That’s important to me when I’m out gigging

Why should I have to jump ship now
All I’m asking for is better style editing
An iPad app would do,

Why is that such a big deal for Yamaha Music,

My dealer says that “Yamaha Musicsoft” would stop such ‘apps’
Cos they want to sell styles to us.

Why are you so defensive of Yamaha?
Isn’t it better to talk about these things and hopefully someone is listening,
And maybe there could be some changes in the future

Can’t you just say, “YES, the Yamaha Style Creator of the past 20 years needs updating?”
I believe you never use the ‘style creator’, then stick to what you do and not comment.

Pino
« Last Edit: May 13, 2018, 12:36:16 PM by Pino »
S910 - S950 - S975 - Ketron SD40 - Maui 5s
 
The following users thanked this post: Kaarlo von Freymann