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The Factory Reset may help if you have problems
« on: May 02, 2018, 01:27:54 AM »
Sincere thanks to Lee Batchelor, who has helped me in an outstanding way. Lee  pointed out there might be be a possibility that I upset the Genos by transferring voices, styles, midi files or whatever from Tyros to Genos.

I  removed everything I had "imported", did the factory reset and after that  have always used  as was recommended on this site - cannot remember just now who helped us with that - a blank registry bank created by  pressing the uppermost F # when switching on. (It is mentioned in the manual)  As a fact it seems the reset has helped remove the problems with the memory. So far I have only "re-imported"  midi files, and used only internal styles on the reg banks. The problem of course is  I will have to do the import of 500 items in small batches in order to be able to analyze which import might have created  problems. But as Lee advised me not only earlier styles must be tweaked (as the drums are not the same) also YAMAHA SOFT  midi files must be checked, a lot of work as it seems one must go to the midi file creator page.  I have not been able to just change  song effect settings like on Tyros and re-save the midi file with song reverb and song chorus adjusted. If that is erroneous please advise.

Cheers

Kaarlo
The year you were born is unimportant as long as you can still play your keyboard and don't have to change the treble setting
 
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Offline Lee Batchelor

Re: The Factory Reset may help if you have problems
« Reply #1 on: May 02, 2018, 12:22:17 PM »
Glad to help, Kaarlo! Thanks for the thumbs up. Hope all goes well.

In summary, I don't think importing files from the Tyros to Genos is as seamless as many people think. It's probably fine for the native files, but after you start creating custom files, all bets are off. For example, on the T5 I used a custom style for Pretty Woman (Roy Orbison). I was sure I had assigned the custom style to the song after importing the registration to the Genos, but when I tried playing it, there was a very nice Rumba style applied. I forgot to manually assign the custom style to the registration (and save) after importing it to the Genos.

We can easily import files from one keyboard to another, but make no mistake about it, ALL files must be perfect, and the imported files must be all checked one at a time. Otherwise, be prepared for major headaches and very embarrassing moments at a gig. I have yet to hear Pretty Woman played to a Rumba beat (actually, that may not be too bad ;)!).
Current Gear: Genos, SoundCraft mixer, two Bose L1 Compacts, 15 inch sub designed and built by myself, Yamaha HS8 studio monitors, Cubase 8 Artist, Steinberg UR-44.
 
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Offline jimlaing

Re: The Factory Reset may help if you have problems
« Reply #2 on: May 15, 2018, 06:49:48 PM »
I have had a few instances of Tyros5 Registrations, where I had a Jazz Guitar in LEFT or in RIGHT3 for example, and when I call that up on the Genos, the Jazz Guitar has a horrible fuzz/distortion!  I've noticed this in about 4 or 5 Registrations so far.  All I have to do is re-select the Jazz Guitar and re-save the Registration.  But as someone else mentioned, you need to check every setting/registration you've imported, to find/fix these kinds of things!

It would be embarrassing on a gig, to go to play a nice quiet ballad such as "Misty" for example, hoping to do a nice jazz guitar "chord comping" with the left hand, and have this heavy-metal guitar sound come blaring out!!!  :-)

I had another thing the other day - again a Jazz Guitar (can't remember the exact voice name) - this time it was in LEFT, and when I played, there seemed to be no sound coming from LEFT.  Turns out the Jazz Guitar had distortion applied (effect), but somehow its volume was nearly zero (not the LEFT Part Volume, but some setting inside the Effect).  I re-selected Jazz Guitar, re-saved the Reg, and all is OK.

Jim
Raleigh, NC, USA / Genos / Tyros5-61 / Lucas Nana 600 / other stuff
 

Re: The Factory Reset may help if you have problems
« Reply #3 on: May 16, 2018, 01:54:28 PM »
.Quote
.......and when I call that up on the Genos, the Jazz Guitar has a horrible fuzz/distortion!  I've noticed this in about 4 or 5 Registrations so far.  All I have to do is re-select the Jazz Guitar and re-save the Registration.  But as someone else mentioned, you need to check every setting/registration you've imported, to find/fix these kinds of things!....

.....It would be embarrassing on a gig, to go to play a nice quiet ballad such as "Misty" for example, hoping to do a nice jazz guitar "chord comping" with the left hand, and have this heavy-metal guitar sound come blaring out!!!  :-).....

.....I had another thing the other day - again a Jazz Guitar ..... the Jazz Guitar had distortion applied (effect), but somehow its volume was nearly zero ....... I re-selected Jazz Guitar, re-saved the Reg, and all is OK.....

Jim

end of partial quote

*****************************************************************************************************

Jim,

Unlike me you have been on this site for years, I am a novice here. Further more you belong to the age group of my children so unlike me you cannot be claimed to be over the hill. 

                                  THANKS, YOU MADE MY DAY

You brought up  the problems which are the reason I still have not switched to Genos in spite of all the  excellent new features it has.. Weight being for me what weighs most.   :)

To me it seems there might be several reasons for these problem not having attracted much attention:

1
They are not  recognized because people are just happy to play “whatever the Genos remembers,”  whether it is what they put in memory or not.

2
For someone playing  heavy metal  music it may make no difference whether Genos calls up a “heavy-metal guitar blaring out!!!”  while what he put into memory was quite something else. (like it is for you and me)

3
Sometimes the right  terminus technicus is more important than the fact whether what is delivered by Genos is what a reasonably experienced keyboard user  would  rightly expect it to be. On an international site, which admittedly is dominated by people having English as their mother tongue, people like me may wrongly call something stupid  a “bug” whereas the correct word would be  “ an unintelligent implementation” and then the whole question is lost in a debate about what is the right word. A very common phenomenon in politics.

4
As to memory Genos memory banks,  and that applies  - to use Microsoft obnoxious legalese -  “ to but not limited to”  banks created on TYROS:

                        THEY ARE NOT RELIABLE

I have been struggling with this problems for  4 months now believing in the beginning what I was told on this site,   

"Genos does exactly what is implemented, any perceived bugs are not bugs, they are user produced errors because he is not yet familiar with the somewhat different software implementation in the Genos."

And it would be dishonest to claim I am not bothered to have spent literally a hundred hours reparing reg banks over and over only to find them again corrupted after a while. So I must warn you  "All I have to do is re-select the Jazz Guitar and re-save the Registration." does not in  all cases cure the problem.

The only one not to claim I am  the reason for my Genos problems  has from the very beginning been the very knowledgeable  YAMAHA importer's rep. If it were not for him I would have contacted a medical doctor  for a check up.
It is a known fact that at some stage we old loose our perception of reality and may even hear voices that no one  else hears and cannot be picked up by microhones.

The pro-Genos fraternity has  gone to great length to help me

A sincere THANKS for their willingness to waste their time  explaining to me what I might be doing wrong, how to do it right, even analyze reg banks I have sent. And I wish to stress, in several cases got the help I needed,
–   
But as to the memory problems, all efforts to no avail.
 
Let us face the fact the REG BANK FUNCTION of the Genos is still after 1.3  not reliable and maybe depending on what kind of music you are performing  and where that is utterly unimportant or catastrophic.   The Factory Reset may help if you have problems but in my experience not with reg errors.

I happen to belong to the later category.  Just an example:  like to-day you cannot listen on the web to anything without stupid back ground  music that has nothing whatsoever to do with the subject,  effects like chorus and reverb are what manufacurers not without reason believe is what players want to use as it masks any errors in their playing. 
As I have posted before, my sister was a singer of classical music. After a certain age she would sing only in churches explaining “the acoustics masks the decline in my vocal capabilities.
 
I enclose a reg banks which is different from what was originally memorized and worked when recalled soon after it had been memorized and now has become  completely corrupted by high settings of chorus and reverb. But not only that, errors can be in anything.
YAMAHA must be aware of  this problem (the importer for Finland has contacted them several times and  I am convinced the “Genos fraternity” on this site is even better connected to YAMAHA than the importer for “peanuts” Finland with its 5 M inhabitants.
I have no reason to believe they will not some day solve this problem though it took them years to finally on Genos make the foot pedal settings not disappear when closing down and locked harmony/voice setting is still volatile.
The only question is WHEN. And admittedly I cannot help feeling like with all manufactures’ products there is a strong policy of trying to make sure that problems are hushed up, never admitted.

Cheers

Kaarlo




The year you were born is unimportant as long as you can still play your keyboard and don't have to change the treble setting
 

Offline EileenL

Re: The Factory Reset may help if you have problems
« Reply #4 on: May 16, 2018, 11:06:41 PM »
Hi Kaarlo,
 Have you yourself been in touch with Yamaha to explain what is happening to your keyboard. Do you have the same problems with registrations you create yourself on Genos with your chosen effects and voices.
  All I can say is that I have not heard of any of my forum members having problems with there old registrations. I myself have registrations I made on my Tyros 2 years ago and they all work fine even my pedal settings still work as they should. I am at a loss to know why your registrations should keep changing.

  If it were me one thing I would try is to save anything I have put on User to USB stick and then format the user drive just in case something loaded has corrupted it. Nothing to lose.

Re: The Factory Reset may help if you have problems
« Reply #5 on: May 17, 2018, 01:36:21 PM »
Hi Kaarlo,
 Have you yourself been in touch with Yamaha to explain what is happening to your keyboard. Do you have the same problems with registrations you create yourself on Genos with your chosen effects and voices.
 All I can say is that I have not heard of any of my forum members having problems with there old registrations. I myself have registrations I made on my Tyros 2 years ago and they all work fine even my pedal settings still work as they should. I am at a loss to know why your registrations should keep changing.

 If it were me one thing I would try is to save anything I have put on User to USB stick and then format the user drive just in case something loaded has corrupted it. Nothing to lose.


Dear Eileen
as I have stated earlier, you are not only a highly respectable person but also a very admirable , likable and helpful person, a combination that is neither by definition  so nor easy to find.

Thanks for going to the trouble of posting your very analytical to the point questions.

1
Have you yourself been in touch with Yamaha to explain what is happening to your keyboard ? 
Yes indeed I wrote several times to YAMAHA  in Rellingen.  No answer.  I remember with melancholy the a time I could call them and have any problem discussed immediately.

2
Do you have the same problems with registrations you create yourself on Genos with your chosen effects and voices.
Yes, but there might a be slight difference, choosing preset styles  and preset voices might work a  little bit better than using user styles (though they may be copied preset styles tweaked a bit in Style Creator.  I prefer  to have all styles of the same type in the same folder  when building a reg bank.
 

3
All I can say is that I have not heard of any of my forum members having problems with there old registrations. I myself have registrations I made on my Tyros 2 years ago and they all work fine even my pedal settings still work as they should. I am at a loss to know why your registrations should keep changing.
That is exactly the mystery we are dealing with. For the fact that reg banks from my Tyros did not work on Genos while they work for those not having done the partition was due to the partitioning of the HD.  It was a pity, but easily understandable.


4
If it were me one thing I would try is to save anything I have put on User to USB stick and then format the user drive just in case something loaded has corrupted it. Nothing to lose.
Very good advice, I believe I did that already once, but unfortunately I have not made notes of all the things we have tried, so I will do it once again, as you say nothing to lose copying things back is not extremely time consuming. 


Will keep you posted on the result.

Cheers

Kaarlo
The year you were born is unimportant as long as you can still play your keyboard and don't have to change the treble setting
 

Re: The Factory Reset may help if you have problems
« Reply #6 on: May 19, 2018, 03:17:27 PM »
The Factory Reset may or may not help if you have problems


Hi Everyone,

I proceeded as suggested - thanks Eileen for putting so much thought into my problems. 

1
I made a factory reset.
 
2
I  removed everything from the USER DRIVE.  (which of course if it contains something which on a PC is called virus)  would mean it was also copied which is not optimal for the test.

3
I   formatted  the user drive.

4
Instead of using the user drive I copied  the reg bank and the STYLES needed for the reg bank to a USB

5
I checked and adjusted everything to sound like I wanted.

6
I saved the reg. bank.

7
I called up another reg bank to make sure I was somewhere else before again calling up the reg bank we are dealing with

8
I called up the the reg bank and recorded it by digital out from Genos  (somebody here gave me the good advice you you can set the digital out volume on the Genos and I did that to get the input to the Tascam digital recorder to the correct level.

9
I played the bank which is the first part of the recording.  (MP3 is of course not ideal, but WAW was impossible due to size)

(off topic you can hear STYLES that are repetitive, e.g the clarinet keeps playing the same too often, are not good for the type of music I play, maybe Genos has a lot of 2 bar styles because people do not mind. I for one am very happy there are a lot of 4 bar styles and even 8 bar intros)

10
You may say the musical execution was not good, fair enough, but the bank was reproduced it was exactly as I made it.

11
Next day I called up the same registration bank.  Volumes  set had changed and chorus and reverb setting had reverted to what heavy metal players use. So for me the registration in unusable.  For home players not a big deal, at a gig a catastrophe. 

I just MP3 recorded one memory button, but there were mistakes on many and you can even see them on the style information page.
Intros changed to A,  tempo changed etc. Volume is not displayed on this page but you can see it on the small display when you step through the reg buttons.

On this site there has only been one posting in addition to mine  about the memory not being reliable. I seems the problem is aggravated in case you use STYLES from the USER DRIVE.  Banks containing only preset styles seem to be less affected. But that is no great consolation as all the STYLES I use are on my USER DRIVE as many have been tweaked as to instruments, their volumes and often  VOICES have been muted  as sometime less is better. I use the STYLE CREATOR on Genos very often and I  in my view it is easier to use due to a better software than than it was on TYROS.
The tweaked styles  are not defective as they function as they should if you do not use the reg.memory, just choose a STYLE and a VOICE.
The same can be said about the 200 STYLES accumulated over the years. But I am not savy in software, is it not that viruses can hide in anything, even photographs ?

There are things one would like YAMAHA to improve, but they are not of paramount importance like this memory issue.
Those of you having encountered the same problems, please post, be it remedies or just comments.

Cheers

Kaarlo


 
The year you were born is unimportant as long as you can still play your keyboard and don't have to change the treble setting
 

Offline Fred Smith

Re: The Factory Reset may help if you have problems
« Reply #7 on: May 19, 2018, 04:03:44 PM »

6
I saved the reg. bank.
 

What groups were checked when you saved the reg bank?

You should post the file so we can take a look at it for you.

Fred
Fred Smith,
Saskatoon, SK
Sun Lakes, AZ
Genos, Bose L1 compacts, Finale 2015
Check out my Registration Lessons
 
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Re: The Factory Reset may help if you have problems
« Reply #8 on: May 19, 2018, 07:10:18 PM »
What groups were checked when you saved the reg bank?

You should post the file so we can take a look at it for you.

Fred

THANKS ONCE AGAIN FRED  will do that. It feels fantastic to get such an immediate to the point answer.

Cheers

Kaarlo
The year you were born is unimportant as long as you can still play your keyboard and don't have to change the treble setting
 

Offline EileenL

Re: The Factory Reset may help if you have problems
« Reply #9 on: May 19, 2018, 08:50:07 PM »
You must make sure you have Style and tempo ticked in memory before saving registration and if using a third party style you must never move it from the place you linked it to on the registration.

Re: The Factory Reset may help if you have problems
« Reply #10 on: May 20, 2018, 12:16:48 AM »
You must make sure you have Style and tempo ticked in memory before saving registration and if using a third party style you must never move it from the place you linked it to on the registration.

Thanks Eileen,  hope I understood your advice correctly.

1
I  always  do have Style and Tempo ticked on buttons  1-10  when making a registration bank so when saving they are ticked. I hope that is what you mean. And I believe the fact that when calling up the bank after in between having been on some other bank, everything is as intended would indicate that everything originally was marked correctly.  t is only later that the memory seems to have "forgotten"   what was memorized.

2
As to the Styles, that they must remain in the original location where they were when the reg bank was done I learned the hard way with the Tyros. As long as all styles were stored in  the user file everything worked fine. But the capacity there is too limited so I had to put the STYLES into division I of he HD. Not one reg bank  worked after that as the STYLE was no more where it had been.   

When sending  a reg bank  for inspection I of course must copy it to a USB stick first and also all STYLES used on the bank and redo the reg bank connecting to the STYLES on the stick because it seems evident just sending the bank without the STYLES would mean the bank would (contrary to preset styles)  on the receiving end not have the STYLES available. I hope that is correct correct thinking.

Cheers

Kaarlo
The year you were born is unimportant as long as you can still play your keyboard and don't have to change the treble setting
 

Offline EileenL

Re: The Factory Reset may help if you have problems
« Reply #11 on: May 20, 2018, 11:32:04 AM »
Hello Kaarlo,
  Firstly the user section on your Genos is now very large and will probably accept all that you had saved on previous Hard Drive. As you know the user memory now takes the place of the hard drive. If you are sending a registration to someone that has used third party styles and you want it to work as saved then of course you must add the styles used to that folder so that they can be linked for the bank to work correctly.
  I really believe that registration banks are the best way to go on any keyboard and are very powerful. The first thing to do before starting to set up is decide what you want the bank to do and save along with the voices and style.Set the ticks up in the memory. If you want a Midi or Audio song to be selected when selecting registration  then Tick the boxes. If you use effects pedals then tick those too. Once you have put your ticks in they will stay there for every bank you set up.
  If you are using third party banks then unfortunately they will not show what was ticked at the time so for your use you will need to just resave them using your settings and then resave the bank.
  I tryuly have never heard of banks forgetting there settings once they have been saved this way.
 
 
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Re: The Factory Reset may help if you have problems
« Reply #12 on: May 21, 2018, 02:06:57 AM »
Hello Kaarlo,
  Firstly the user section on your Genos is now very large and will probably accept all that you had saved on previous Hard Drive. As you know the user memory now takes the place of the hard drive. If you are sending a registration to someone that has used third party styles and you want it to work as saved then of course you must add the styles used to that folder so that they can be linked for the bank to work correctly.
  I really believe that registration banks are the best way to go on any keyboard and are very powerful. The first thing to do before starting to set up is decide what you want the bank to do and save along with the voices and style.Set the ticks up in the memory. If you want a Midi or Audio song to be selected when selecting registration  then Tick the boxes. If you use effects pedals then tick those too. Once you have put your ticks in they will stay there for every bank you set up.
  If you are using third party banks then unfortunately they will not show what was ticked at the time so for your use you will need to just resave them using your settings and then resave the bank.
  I tryuly have never heard of banks forgetting there settings once they have been saved this way.
 

Thanks Eileen, I believe I have in general understood your clear advice. Here comes a bank I made to-day. I wish to thank you for the trouble of having a look at it.

To make it easy easy to check the memory for accuracy I did the following;

STYLE
I used only preset styles in the order they are listed under Jazz advancing to the next style with every button 1 -  10
STYLE VOLUME
button 1 had  style volume 101 with volume increasing with 1 increment with every next button to volume 110
STYLE TEMPO
button one had tempo 121 with tempo increasing by one increment with every new button to tempo  130

VOICE
I used only preset voices in the order they are on the  piano preset voice list advancing to the next voice with every button
VOICE VOLUME
button 1 had  voice volume 101 with volume increasing with 1 increment with every next button to volume 110 on button 10

TRANPOSE
button 1 had   C#  =   + 1  transpose  advancing by one half note with every next button

MIC VOLUME
was set to 127 on all 10 buttons 
MIC/HARMONY  SETTING
was set to  BOB = Louis Armstrong

MEMORIZE SETTING

On the “what to be memorized” page everything was clicked

FREEZE SETTING
On the Freeze page nothing was clicked and it was kept off.

PARAMETER LOCK SETTING

Nothing was clicked on the Parameter Lock page

SO WHAT WAS THE IDEA OF THE BANK ? 

(To test whether the memory on my Genos is reliable) What one should see on the main and on the small display and of course hear: With each button a new style with intro & new voice + increase in  style tempo + increase in style volume + increase in Right hand volume +  increase in transpose.  I have done quite a few of this type of tests, so I could send you many, but I wanted to make this one from scratch, PLEASE BE CAREFUL AND KEEP THE VOLUME AT A MINIMUM AS OFTEN IT IS NOT WHAT IT WAS MEANT TO BE. 

Cheers

Kaarlo


The year you were born is unimportant as long as you can still play your keyboard and don't have to change the treble setting
 

Offline travlin-easy

Re: The Factory Reset may help if you have problems
« Reply #13 on: May 21, 2018, 03:10:37 AM »
Kaarlos, I just downloaded your registration and I will delve into it tomorrow when I get home from having some medical tests performed. Unfortunately, I do not own a Genos, but despite this, I still may be able to determine where the problem lies.

Good luck,

Gary 8)
Love Those Yammies...
 
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Offline EileenL

Re: The Factory Reset may help if you have problems
« Reply #14 on: May 21, 2018, 11:59:06 AM »
Hi Kaarlos ,
  On trying registration I found Harmony Mary and Bob only saved to button 2. Transpose was not going up as you stated. Style volumes were not increasing with the buttons all the time. As a test I have set then to increase by five on each button press. Voices changed OK but were not going up by one each time. I have reset them to increase by one each time. I also save vocal harmony to Mary/Bob for each button. See if this now works for you.

Re: The Factory Reset may help if you have problems
« Reply #15 on: May 21, 2018, 12:23:57 PM »
Hi Kaarlos ......

1
Harmony Mary and Bob only saved to button 2.

2
Transpose was not going up as you stated.

3
Style volumes were not increasing with the buttons all the time.

4
As a test I have set them to increase by five on each button press.

Voices changed OK but were not going up by one each time.

I have reset them to increase by one each time.

I also save vocal harmony to Mary/Bob for each button.

See if this now works for you.


Dear Eileen,
thanks, thanks thanks !  I was just suggesting on an answer to travlin-easy exactly what you have done believing that is the only way to tackle this problem.  Will download your corrected reg.bank and be back soon. When I was young what you said to a Lady in a situation this was "May I kiss your hand". :)

Cheers

Kaarlo


The year you were born is unimportant as long as you can still play your keyboard and don't have to change the treble setting
 

Re: The Factory Reset may help if you have problems
« Reply #16 on: May 21, 2018, 03:21:44 PM »
Dear Eileen,
I am very relieved and very indebted to you. We are now finally arriving at verifying  there is a problem. I believe you can understand being convinced something does not work and spending literally hundreds of hours trying to find out whether you are doing something wrong or there is something wrong is very frustrating especially when you are being told what you  hear and see cannot be.  

Your going to the immense trouble of checking everything seems to indicate the problems perceived are not imaginary.


1
Harmony Mary> Bob  only saved to button 2.                            so there was an error in either saving or reading the reg. bank

2
Transpose was  not going up as you stated.                                  so there was an error in either saving or reading the reg. bank

3
Style volumes were not increasing with the buttons all the time.     so there was an error in either saving or reading the reg. bank

4
As a test I have set them  (I presume you refer to volume)
to increase by five on each button press.                                        that now functions  except on button 10  which shoud be 25 and is 27 no big deal

5
Voices changed OK but were not going up by one each time.             so there was an error in either saving or reading the  reg. bank   

6
I have reset them to increase by one each time.                                NOW THEY DO From first piano to 10th piano

7
I also saved vocal harmony to Mary/Bob for each button.                  so there was an error in either saving or reading the reg. bank on my Genos     
                                                                                                   default 3 voice harmony is still called by all 10 buttons
                                                                                                                 

8
I am not sure you tweaked these settings but still they are defective:

Button   3 does not call up the third style   BB Jazz
Button   6 does not call up the  6th style    Acoustic Jazz
Button  10 does not call up the 10th style     Cool Jazz Club



Once more sincere thanks for digging into this problem that so far has kept me from switching to Genos.

Now we have verified there is a problem but I for one am still at a loss  what causes it,  software, a virus, hardware and why it seems others do not have  or are not aware of theses problems.


Cheers

Kaarlo




The year you were born is unimportant as long as you can still play your keyboard and don't have to change the treble setting
 

Offline EileenL

Re: The Factory Reset may help if you have problems
« Reply #17 on: May 21, 2018, 04:39:16 PM »
Hello Kaarlo,
  I must admit I did not alter the styles you had chosen as I did not know what the original ones were. Is this registration bank messing around now as you say the banks do. Would be interesting to see if it alters when re loading a few times. I have tried it on my keyboard and it remains the same as saved.

Re: The Factory Reset may help if you have problems
« Reply #18 on: May 21, 2018, 08:42:50 PM »
Hello Kaarlo,
  I must admit I did not alter the styles you had chosen as I did not know what the original ones were. Is this registration bank messing around now as you say the banks do. Would be interesting to see if it alters when re loading a few times. I have tried it on my keyboard and it remains the same as saved.

Thanks Eileen, I will keep you posted. The Styles were the first 10 on the preset Jazz page. They were programmed to advance  Nr 1 - Nr 10  going up with the buttons and mostly did but not always, a problem I have had many times when doing these test banks.  Am very curious, will the bank accumulate more errors, will check to-morrow.  Not getting the right style as long as it is the same type of Style is not a disaster as the audience does not even know what you had chosen, the disaster happens when suddenly the style volume has changed from 60  to  127 and it shatters the ears of both the performer and worse those dancing close to your speakers.


Cheers

Kaarlo
The year you were born is unimportant as long as you can still play your keyboard and don't have to change the treble setting
 

Offline Lee Batchelor

Re: The Factory Reset may help if you have problems
« Reply #19 on: May 21, 2018, 08:53:59 PM »
Hi Kaarlo,

Are these software issues happening with the registrations you build from scratch using just the on board Styles and Voices? If so, you may have a serious OS problem. If the issues are occurring with only imported Styles and Voices, then it's definitely a flaw in the imported parts or pilot error. If the latter statement is true (and I highly suspect this), I don't waste time trying to fix the imported registrations. I build them from scratch. It takes 1/10th the time. That way I know it won't fail, and whatever little "worm" came along for the ride from your T5, is gone for good.

We seem to be over-complicating this post :).
Current Gear: Genos, SoundCraft mixer, two Bose L1 Compacts, 15 inch sub designed and built by myself, Yamaha HS8 studio monitors, Cubase 8 Artist, Steinberg UR-44.
 

Offline jimlaing

Re: The Factory Reset may help if you have problems
« Reply #20 on: May 21, 2018, 09:16:26 PM »
I can add that I have been having similar problems also.  My Registrations all were copied from Tyros5.  I did manually "fix" the links to any custom voices, WAV files I had on Multipads, I knew that I had to fix those.

But I too have had registrations that were saved on Genos (that came from Tyros5), later when recalled, have odd effects settings.  I notice it most with reg's that used the "Jazz Guitar" sound.  Others too, but that one is messed up more than others.

I have the first 2 columns of items checked on the Memory settings for Registration (the first 10 items I believe).

Jim
Raleigh, NC, USA / Genos / Tyros5-61 / Lucas Nana 600 / other stuff
 

Offline Lee Batchelor

Re: The Factory Reset may help if you have problems
« Reply #21 on: May 21, 2018, 09:49:07 PM »
Jim, I think the so-called "easy transition" from the T5 to Genos that so many members declare, is a myth.

I have found that for every upgrade to the next keyboard, ALL registrations had to be manually checked and re-saved. There's just to much that can go wrong. I agree that a lot of registrations can run seamlessly, but only a fool trusts that nothing will go wrong in a gig. In the first gig I played on my Genos, I had to scrap three songs because what came out of the PA was a total embarrassment, and the dance floor was full!!
Current Gear: Genos, SoundCraft mixer, two Bose L1 Compacts, 15 inch sub designed and built by myself, Yamaha HS8 studio monitors, Cubase 8 Artist, Steinberg UR-44.
 
The following users thanked this post: Kaarlo von Freymann

Offline EileenL

Re: The Factory Reset may help if you have problems
« Reply #22 on: May 21, 2018, 10:11:06 PM »
Yes Jim,
  I think most of us know we will have to make adjustments to old registrations. A lot of these may be in the effects setting as previous keyboards have used a different system for DSP settings etc. than we now have on Genos.

 

Re: The Factory Reset may help if you have problems
« Reply #23 on: May 21, 2018, 10:18:47 PM »
Hi Kaarlo,

Are these software issues happening with the registrations you build from scratch using just the on board Styles and Voices? If so, you may have a serious OS problem. If the issues are occurring with only imported Styles and Voices, then it's definitely a flaw in the imported parts or pilot error. If the latter statement is true (and I highly suspect this), I don't waste time trying to fix the imported registrations. I build them from scratch. It takes 1/10th the time. That way I know it won't fail, and whatever little "worm" came along for the ride from your T5, is gone for good.

We seem to be over-complicating this post :).

Thanks Lee,

You warned me about this possible problem earlier so I built the bank with the first 10 preset Jazz Styles and the first 10 Piano voices  to eliminate the possible problems caused by "imported" styles or voices. 
I do have a lot of "imported stuff" as well as tweaked preset styles on my "Style tree" on the user drive, but they were not used in this case.  I have built banks with these also, but errors have not been  more numerous with the preset stuff. 

I do not feel  we over-complicating this issue, the issue is complicated.  For me a wrong style or lacking intro is not what scares me most, it is that suddenly a style or voice volume set to 60 blares out at 127 which at home is just terrible but at a gig  might make the place never give me another gig, and as you know, only repeat business is real business. There are clubs that have engaged me  for a dozen years in a row.

Cheers

Kaarlo
The year you were born is unimportant as long as you can still play your keyboard and don't have to change the treble setting
 

Re: The Factory Reset may help if you have problems
« Reply #24 on: May 21, 2018, 10:40:14 PM »
I can add that I have been having similar problems also.  My Registrations all were copied from Tyros5.  I did manually "fix" the links to any custom voices, WAV files I had on Multipads, I knew that I had to fix those.

But I too have had registrations that were saved on Genos (that came from Tyros5), later when recalled, have odd effects settings.  I notice it most with reg's that used the "Jazz Guitar" sound.  Others too, but that one is messed up more than others.

I have the first 2 columns of items checked on the Memory settings for Registration (the first 10 items I believe).

Jim

Jim, would it be too much of a job if you would do what Eileen so expertly did for me, but  on a  much smaller scale:  take the reg bank I posted, listen to what you hear, correct what to you seems wrong  - technically, not musically - and save it and post it. I do not want to bother you with checking whether the bank is what I wrote it should be, I am just interested to see whether the bank on my Genos  after your correction sounds right.  Eileen already verified the bank I sent in many instances was not what I had programmed it to be.

"I too have had registrations that were saved on Genos (that came from Tyros5), later when recalled, have odd effects settings...."
You see my problem is exactly that the banks are ok when called up a short time after they were memorized, but later when recalled are corrupted.

Cheers

Kaarlo
The year you were born is unimportant as long as you can still play your keyboard and don't have to change the treble setting
 

Offline jwyvern

Re: The Factory Reset may help if you have problems
« Reply #25 on: May 22, 2018, 07:50:37 AM »
Hi Kaarlo,
Have you double checked the version of the operating system that is actually in your Genos, regardless of any software updates you might have done?
Go to Menu /Utility /System and see Version on the top line.
See if it says 1.3,
John
 

Re: The Factory Reset may help if you have problems
« Reply #26 on: May 23, 2018, 01:38:45 AM »
Hi Kaarlo,
Have you double checked the version of the operating system that is actually in your Genos, regardless of any software updates you might have done?
Go to Menu /Utility /System and see Version on the top line.
See if it says 1.3,
John

Thanks John
Yes, it was updated and yes it says 1.3

Cheers

Kaarlo
The year you were born is unimportant as long as you can still play your keyboard and don't have to change the treble setting
 

Offline EileenL

Re: The Factory Reset may help if you have problems
« Reply #27 on: May 23, 2018, 03:01:12 PM »
Has the registration I did changed at all when reloading it.

Offline tyrosaurus

Re: The Factory Reset may help if you have problems
« Reply #28 on: May 23, 2018, 03:52:30 PM »
Hi Kaarlo,

I don't have a Genos so I can't try your 'test' bank.

However I looked at it using Murray Best's 'Yamaha Registration Manager' program, and if you are interested, I have summarised the reported contents in the attached PDF.

Assuming that the program is correct, it seems to indicate that the contents of your original 'GOING UP 1-10' test bank do not always match your description of what you attempted to include in each registration!


Regards

Ian
 

Re: The Factory Reset may help if you have problems
« Reply #29 on: May 24, 2018, 12:09:17 AM »
Hi Kaarlo,
......I looked at it using Murray Best's 'Yamaha Registration Manager' program, ...... I have summarized the reported contents in the attached PDF.
......of your original 'GOING UP 1-10' test bank do not always match your description of what you attempted to include in each registration!

Regards

Ian

Hi Kaarlo,
......I looked at it using Murray Best's 'Yamaha Registration Manager' program, ...... I have summarised the reported contents in the attached PDF.
......of your original 'GOING UP 1-10' test bank do not always match your description of what you attempted to include in each registration!

Regards

Ian

Hi Ian,

THANKS, OF COURSE I AM VERY INTERESTED!
  "Assuming that the program is correct, it seems to indicate that the contents of your original 'GOING UP 1-10' test bank do not always match your description of what you attempted to include in each registration!"  EXACTLY that is the problem I am struggling with.   And not only with this test bank, actually there is not one reg bank on my Genos that is error free. Some errors are not so important like when the difference in volume or tempo is quite  small,  the audience will not recognize that, but imagine button one in your listing:   STYLE VOLUME 127 instead of the intended 101 and Tempo also incorrect. Unfortunately the document is PFD in which I am not able to do any markings, but that is not important,  YOUR CONCLUSION IS CORRECT.
 
I am very grateful Eileen went to the great trouble of  of making the  corrected bank . Thanks for including the print of it. As you can see all progressions of the settings Eileens version are made to be easily controllable - just like I tried to do. Only slight difference Eileen made was increasing the step in Style volume to 5 to make it more audible.
When I first played the bank everything was as intended except my Genos did not choose all styles  exactly as they were originally programmed, but Eileen wrote she had not dug into the styles, so that may have been a residual error from my bank.
So I corrected the style progression to what it originally was supposed to be and also the harmony voice to Bob and so far it seems the memorization has not changed.

As Eileen made the style voice increase in steps of  5 for test purposes, I have saved a new version with less change as an increase of  10 x 5 makes the Style get too loud at the end. So far even this seems to have remained stable. Will dig into the matter to-morrow.

Once again THANKS. Your help is highly appreciated and I will mail your results to the YAMAHA rep as I know he is also very thankful for any info he gets. Murray Best's 'Yamaha Registration Manager' seems to be what I should have.

Cheers
Kaarlo
The year you were born is unimportant as long as you can still play your keyboard and don't have to change the treble setting
 

Re: The Factory Reset may help if you have problems
« Reply #30 on: May 24, 2018, 12:16:53 AM »
Has the registration I did changed at all when reloading it.

Dear Eileen,

Thanks, please see my explanation in my post to tyrosaurus. It definitely seems your corrected bank works better than the original one at least so far. Will be back.

Cheers

Kaarlo
The year you were born is unimportant as long as you can still play your keyboard and don't have to change the treble setting
 

Offline jimlaing

Re: The Factory Reset may help if you have problems
« Reply #31 on: May 24, 2018, 12:41:04 AM »
Has anyone reported this to Yamaha yet?  Sounds like quite a big problem - one I've seen too ... kind of frustrating, as I worked on several hundred of my Tyros-5 sourced registrations, edited every one of them to be "just right" (for me) on Genos - then I go back to them and some are messed up!

Jim
Raleigh, NC, USA / Genos / Tyros5-61 / Lucas Nana 600 / other stuff
 
The following users thanked this post: Kaarlo von Freymann

Offline EileenL

Re: The Factory Reset may help if you have problems
« Reply #32 on: May 24, 2018, 11:57:19 AM »
I have been using my Tyros 5 registrations now since November and have never had a problem. I have changed some of the reverb settings to Real reverb and some of the DSP settings to the newer ones and have had no problems at all with registration banks being altered in any way when reloaded. I can't speak for third party banks because I don't use them.