Author Topic: Can anyone confirm this (Genos reads out loud)?  (Read 2715 times)

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Offline XeeniX

Can anyone confirm this (Genos reads out loud)?
« on: May 01, 2018, 09:29:00 PM »
Hi,

There seems to be an new option on the Genos since the firmware upgrades (not sure if it was with v1.20 or v1.30). The option that once turned on in the menu of the Genos and combined with text sitting on a usb drive makes teh Genos read out loud what you touched on the screen. So more or less in the same way as the option ion a smartphone. Can anyone confirm this since it this information has not (yet?) spread over the internet. A dealer was telling me this when I asked about prices and told him that I was a little worried about operating a touch screen as a visually impaired person. He told me this was a new option since the firmware upgrades. After the conversation I tried to google it but couldn't find anything yet.

This would be an awesome feature for visually impaired people....

regards,
Peter
 
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Offline Fred Smith

Re: Can anyone confirm this (Genos reads out loud)?
« Reply #1 on: May 01, 2018, 09:43:49 PM »
Yes, it’s true. The feature is called Voice Guide.

Fred
Fred Smith,
Saskatoon, SK
Sun Lakes, AZ
Genos, Bose L1 compacts, Finale 2015
Check out my Registration Lessons
 
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Offline jerryghr

 
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Offline Toril S

Re: Can anyone confirm this (Genos reads out loud)?
« Reply #3 on: May 01, 2018, 09:50:37 PM »
This is very good news!!!
Toril S

PSR S970, PSR 2100 and PSR-47.

Toril's PSR Performer Page
 

Offline XeeniX

Re: Can anyone confirm this (Genos reads out loud)?
« Reply #4 on: May 01, 2018, 09:51:34 PM »
Thanks a lot Fred and Jerry,

Didn't know how it was called and therefor couldn't find anything in google search (was looking for voice over, speech, screen reader etc.) Gonna watch (and listen) to the linked video now and se eif it is really what I think it is. Would and could be a major reason for me to make the step forward 8) 8)

kind regards,
Peter
 

Offline XeeniX

Re: Can anyone confirm this (Genos reads out loud)?
« Reply #5 on: May 01, 2018, 09:53:33 PM »
This is very good news!!!

hi Torril,

It is indeed, when working as the smartphone option it would really mean so much for us!

***Edit: Just watched the video, it is the same and AWESOME as far as I can hear. Not sure but I think Yamaha is the first with this, at least in the arranger department.

kind regards,
Peter
« Last Edit: May 01, 2018, 10:05:30 PM by XeeniX »
 

Offline EileenL

Re: Can anyone confirm this (Genos reads out loud)?
« Reply #6 on: June 07, 2018, 10:00:15 PM »
Yes you just download the file from the Yamaha site onto a USB pen and put it into the Genos and it will tell you what you are touching. Works very well.
 
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Offline Toril S

Re: Can anyone confirm this (Genos reads out loud)?
« Reply #7 on: June 08, 2018, 12:29:59 AM »
That is fantastic!
Toril S

PSR S970, PSR 2100 and PSR-47.

Toril's PSR Performer Page
 

Offline Gloria

Re: Can anyone confirm this (Genos reads out loud)?
« Reply #8 on: June 08, 2018, 01:15:30 PM »
Toril,  If I remember correctly, you once mentioned you have poor eyesight.  It sounds like the Genos would be excellent for you.  Since you are already familiar with the 970, there is not that big of a difference in the operation of the 2 models.

Kind regards, Gloria
"Music is the Universal Language"
PSR Performer Page
 

Offline alans

Re: Can anyone confirm this (Genos reads out loud)?
« Reply #9 on: June 08, 2018, 10:31:09 PM »
For poeple with impaired sight this could be very useful.

Here is a Youtube link

https://youtu.be/5kHDPO1z_CE

Alan
Previous keyboards-Yamaha PSR 410,Technics KN2000,KN5000,KN6000 , KN7000 and Tyros5
 

Offline EileenL

Re: Can anyone confirm this (Genos reads out loud)?
« Reply #10 on: June 08, 2018, 11:23:57 PM »

Offline Toril S

Re: Can anyone confirm this (Genos reads out loud)?
« Reply #11 on: June 09, 2018, 04:03:57 AM »
Thanks friends😋 Maybe a Genos for me after all!
Toril S

PSR S970, PSR 2100 and PSR-47.

Toril's PSR Performer Page
 
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Online alanclare

Re: Can anyone confirm this (Genos reads out loud)?
« Reply #12 on: June 19, 2018, 07:48:29 AM »
Peter

Just Google “Yamaha voice guide”. There’s a lot of stuff.

Alan
« Last Edit: June 19, 2018, 07:49:36 AM by alanclare »
 

Offline XeeniX

Re: Can anyone confirm this (Genos reads out loud)?
« Reply #13 on: June 19, 2018, 08:53:03 AM »
Hi Allan,

I know just didn't know what is was called exactly and was searching for the wrong names. By now I saw it at work in several demo's. It can be a big help for people with a visual impairment. Recent (raised) prices of Genos due to the new Yamaha dealer contracts with so it seems new rules and the fact that trading in a T5 isn't very interesting made me decide to stick with the T5 and perhaps wait for it's successor. There are advantages for me buying a Genos but not enough to  spend about €2400-2700 on top of my 1 year T5-76. I don't mind "donating"  when that hands me a new toy but I don't feel like paying for their holiday trip expenses just to have the next generation ;) Waiting for the Genos successor in a few years perhaps is the better choice. By that time I've used my T5 for a longer period which makes trading it in for a lower price less painful :)

Peter
 

Offline Toril S

Re: Can anyone confirm this (Genos reads out loud)?
« Reply #14 on: June 19, 2018, 09:25:44 AM »
They should develop voice guide for the older models also!
Toril S

PSR S970, PSR 2100 and PSR-47.

Toril's PSR Performer Page
 

Offline beykock

Re: Can anyone confirm this (Genos reads out loud)?
« Reply #15 on: June 19, 2018, 09:28:00 AM »
It would be great if one of our computer experts could make this feature work for all ( modern ) Yamaha keyboards ... Wishful thinking, maybe ?

Babette

Online alanclare

Re: Can anyone confirm this (Genos reads out loud)?
« Reply #16 on: June 19, 2018, 10:23:19 AM »
Hi Allan,

I know just didn't know what is was called exactly and was searching for the wrong names. By now I saw it at work in several demo's. It can be a big help for people with a visual impairment. Recent (raised) prices of Genos due to the new Yamaha dealer contracts with so it seems new rules and the fact that trading in a T5 isn't very interesting made me decide to stick with the T5 and perhaps wait for it's successor. There are advantages for me buying a Genos but not enough to  spend about €2400-2700 on top of my 1 year T5-76. I don't mind "donating"  when that hands me a new toy but I don't feel like paying for their holiday trip expenses just to have the next generation ;) Waiting for the Genos successor in a few years perhaps is the better choice. By that time I've used my T5 for a longer period which makes trading it in for a lower price less painful :)

Peter

Good plan Peter

It will be interesting to hear other people’s experiences with using this function. As far as I can acertain, Yamaha haven’t done anything similar before. If that is so, let’s hear some user’s opinions of this aid. Having spent some years working with systems to help blind and partially-sighted people to use computers and similar screen-based devices, I know how difficult it is to design and develop something that is friendly and straightforward.

I look back at those halcyon days when everything was dos-based, and all we had to do was speak what was on the screen - and then Windows and icons appeared, and life got a lot harder.

Alan

Offline XeeniX

Re: Can anyone confirm this (Genos reads out loud)?
« Reply #17 on: June 19, 2018, 11:05:38 AM »
Hi Alan,

Indeed it would. First hand experience is better than demo's since those always are produced in a controlled environment and.... mostly done by people not troubled with "the problem" :) That is (besides the technical difficulties of course) in most cases the reason why these "tools" not always do what they say they can do. It's like those doctors and institutes thinking they can tell you what you still see and what not and what you can still do and what not. A little arrogant if you ask me since some of those things can still be done with a little extra energy and/or inventiveness. While other things can not be done even if they say it can be done.
One way or the other I think this initiative from Yamaha is a great start :D

best regards,
Peter


 

Offline Toril S

Re: Can anyone confirm this (Genos reads out loud)?
« Reply #18 on: June 19, 2018, 12:16:04 PM »
So do I! It is a start. Let us hope they continue to develop it, listening to the feedback from visually impaired people.
Toril S

PSR S970, PSR 2100 and PSR-47.

Toril's PSR Performer Page
 

Offline EileenL

Re: Can anyone confirm this (Genos reads out loud)?
« Reply #19 on: June 19, 2018, 12:21:38 PM »
I have tried it on my keyboard and it dose work just as the Demo shows you.

Online alanclare

Re: Can anyone confirm this (Genos reads out loud)?
« Reply #20 on: June 19, 2018, 12:52:23 PM »
I have tried it on my keyboard and it dose work just as the Demo shows you.

Eileen

I'm sure that it does work, but I presume that you have good sight and are therefore able to see that it works. (Please tell me if I am wrong in that assumption). But would it perform in a way that would be useful to a person with shortcomings in that all-important sense?

Alan



Offline EileenL

Re: Can anyone confirm this (Genos reads out loud)?
« Reply #21 on: June 19, 2018, 06:05:11 PM »
The idea of this is to tell you what you are touching to confirm you have pressed the right button if you have difficulty reading what you are touching. This way it will help you navigate all the sections that you need to set things up. You need to try it to understand it.

Offline XeeniX

Re: Can anyone confirm this (Genos reads out loud)?
« Reply #22 on: June 19, 2018, 07:02:54 PM »
Hi Eileen,

I don't need to try it in order to "understand" it. I am working with these kind of tools and several other aids for years now. The problem though is that almost every aid is designed/programmed/created by people not hindered by eyesight problems. They mean good but often "overlook" certain difficulties that we encounter (and I know that probably sounds kinda funny :) ). That is I think also what Alan ment. The best way is always to try it and find out for yourself but if not possible the second best option would be to hear from "colleagues" with experience using this voice guide.

No matter the outcome though, it's a first attempt and I highly appreciate it. I notice similar good developments (for other reasons of course) with the CSP 150/170. No more buttons but everything on your iPad done with an app called smart pianist. iOS has amazing  voice aid and although I'm not entirely sure, I think that voice aid will work with smart pianist as well.

kind regards,
Peter
 

Offline tyrosaurus

Re: Can anyone confirm this (Genos reads out loud)?
« Reply #23 on: June 19, 2018, 07:48:45 PM »
Hi Peter,

As far as I'm aware, the Voice Guide function was first introduced back in 2013 for the CVP 605/609, part way through their lifespan.

These were the first models to use a touch screen. It was then available from the release of the CVP 705/709 .

So hopefully since then, Yamaha have had plenty of feedback from actual users, and as we know, Yamaha always listens to it's users!   ::) ;) :-\


Regards

Ian

Offline zionip

Re: Can anyone confirm this (Genos reads out loud)?
« Reply #24 on: June 19, 2018, 07:51:45 PM »
Hi Peter,

I downloaded the following zip file, unzipped it and copied the "Genos" folder to the root directory of my USB drive on Genos (I only use the top/front USB slot of Genos for convenience and prevention of USB drive name confusion):
https://data.yamaha.com/keyboards/arranger_workstations/genos_en_voice_guide_wav.zip

On Genos with firmware 1.30, I pressed "Menu" -> Menu2 -> Utility -> System -> Page 2, I made sure that Voice Guide was turned on:


Now the Voice Guide tells me which physical or on-screen buttons I just touched, what screen I am on, my current setting on the screen etc.  The Voice Assistant is a recorded female voice on the right speaker, loud and clear.  For visually impaired players, this voice assistance is very helpful.

Thanks,
Paul
 

Offline XeeniX

Re: Can anyone confirm this (Genos reads out loud)?
« Reply #25 on: June 19, 2018, 09:17:27 PM »
Hi Ian and Paul,

First of all to both thanks for your input.

Ian: I didn't know that and not sure if this was a well known feature but to be honest the CVP models were / still are above my pay grade so to speak ;)  which is probably the main reason I missed it.

Paul:  I listened carefully to the demo a few weeks ago and even downloaded the zipfile with audio files. But it's often the details that classify an aid as very useful/helpful or not so much for us. It sounded very promising but it depends for example on the levels to which it is still working (telling me things). From what I could determine it reads for example that you are in the registration section but when you choose one (mind you that is one of the difficulties for someone not seeing what and where to click) it only reads when you cancel, save etc. but not that you actually have clicked on a registry. I don't say this to bring the voice guide down but just to point out how quickly the "seeing" forget something since it is totally normal for them but not for us. In order to click cancel or save we need to know that there is a popup window to start with :) I am not sure since it was a little while ago since I heard the demo but it didn't read (preset) style names for example.

As said no matter any shortcomings, I am glad they made an effort to improve this especially since it is for a small group when compared to the entire customer base. I hope that despite that fact they will stay at it :)

kind regards,
Peter
 

Offline beykock

Re: Can anyone confirm this (Genos reads out loud)?
« Reply #26 on: June 19, 2018, 10:23:37 PM »
IMHO it must be possible to create this prog for earlier models like the T5 or does it work for touch screens only ?

Babette
 

Offline zionip

Re: Can anyone confirm this (Genos reads out loud)?
« Reply #27 on: June 20, 2018, 06:49:29 AM »
Hi Peter,

My eyesight is not very good, so I attached a 24-inch LCD monitor with 1920x1080 resolution to Genos so I can see the Genos screen more clearly (I am showing a 21.5-inch Dell LCD monitor in the following photo, a 24-inch LCD monitor is slightly bigger):


With a 24-inch (or even larger size, like 27-inch, up to 32-inch) external monitor and voice guide, I think you will feel more comfortable in operating Genos.

The 24-inch LCD monitor rests on Genos music stand steadily without issues.  If you want to use 32-inch LCD monitor / TV with Genos, you will need to remove the Genos music stand, and put the big LCD monitor on a separate floor standing heavy duty music stand right behind Genos.

Thanks,
Paul
 

Offline XeeniX

Re: Can anyone confirm this (Genos reads out loud)?
« Reply #28 on: June 20, 2018, 08:25:25 AM »
Hi Paul,

I've attached a 32" HD ready LCD TV to my T4 and now T5 it uses a much lower native resolution 1360x768 (making the images even bigger) that worked for a while although it can still be tough if/since what you can see can't be "touched" on that same screen. You need to go back to the original buttons on the keyboard. On the Genos that is even a little tougher since I imagine most menu operations take place on the touchscreen itself. Nowadays I can hardly see anything on the big screen anymore. Not a real drama or problem since there are always worse things that could happen to a person and this way you sometimes get very surprising results ;) That is one of the reasons I was so curious about the experience with voice guide options on Genos and the smart pianist app on iPad for CSP 150/170.

@ Babette: I don't think it would work on older keyboards unless someone would be able to create an app that could steer everything from pc to keyboard with midi commands and I don't think that is possible for quite a few of the operations. The only other option I think would be to completely rewrite the OS/firmware on the keyboards which is totally not doable for old(er) keyboards (costs, efforts, etc).

I will wait until my wallet can match the prices without the feeling of being robbed "blind";) Then I will have a good look/listen around to see what is on the market that can meet my expectations and needs and buy me a successor :)

Thank you all for your kind input,comments and help,
Peter

p.s. Paul : Nice configuration you have there :D
« Last Edit: June 20, 2018, 08:33:47 AM by XeeniX »
 

Offline beykock

Re: Can anyone confirm this (Genos reads out loud)?
« Reply #29 on: June 20, 2018, 12:00:35 PM »
Hi Peter,

Thanks for your feedback.
I am sure you are absuletly right but it would be great if this app for " older " models should be available too, IMHO.

Babette


Offline Toril S

Re: Can anyone confirm this (Genos reads out loud)?
« Reply #30 on: June 20, 2018, 12:16:32 PM »
Hi Peter! If this voice guide don't read the chosen style, how can someone dependent on it know witch style is chosen? It is so true that people who make these programs don't really know how important it is that all info be read! Another thing: There should be a dedicated port for an earpiece, - when gigging you don't want the audience to hear the voice guide! This is a step in the right direction, but I fear it is far from perfect at this date. On older keyboards with buttons you could always memorize where the styles were and just press buttons without using the screen. That is how I navigated my 2100. A Genos without voice guide is not usable for someone without eyesight, and that worries me a lot. I hope they get the voice guide right! There are a great number of musicians out there who are visually impaired, and I don't want us to have to go back to just playing an acoustic piano because the keyboards are off limit! I hope the best!
Toril S

PSR S970, PSR 2100 and PSR-47.

Toril's PSR Performer Page
 

Online alanclare

Re: Can anyone confirm this (Genos reads out loud)?
« Reply #31 on: June 20, 2018, 12:28:15 PM »
Hi Peter,

My eyesight is not very good, so I attached a 24-inch LCD monitor with 1920x1080 resolution to Genos so I can see the Genos screen more clearly (I am showing a 21.5-inch Dell LCD monitor in the following photo, a 24-inch LCD monitor is slightly bigger):


With a 24-inch (or even larger size, like 27-inch, up to 32-inch) external monitor and voice guide, I think you will feel more comfortable in operating Genos.

The 24-inch LCD monitor rests on Genos music stand steadily without issues.  If you want to use 32-inch LCD monitor / TV with Genos, you will need to remove the Genos music stand, and put the big LCD monitor on a separate floor standing heavy duty music stand right behind Genos.

Thanks,
Paul

Paul

Just out of interest - where do you rest your music? The music stand looks to be a bit full!

Alan
 

Offline XeeniX

Re: Can anyone confirm this (Genos reads out loud)?
« Reply #32 on: June 20, 2018, 01:13:28 PM »
Hi Peter! If this voice guide don't read the chosen style, how can someone dependent on it know witch style is chosen? It is so true that people who make these programs don't really know how important it is that all info be read! Another thing: There should be a dedicated port for an earpiece, - when gigging you don't want the audience to hear the voice guide! This is a step in the right direction, but I fear it is far from perfect at this date. On older keyboards with buttons you could always memorize where the styles were and just press buttons without using the screen. That is how I navigated my 2100. A Genos without voice guide is not usable for someone without eyesight, and that worries me a lot. I hope they get the voice guide right! There are a great number of musicians out there who are visually impaired, and I don't want us to have to go back to just playing an acoustic piano because the keyboards are off limit! I hope the best!

Hi Toril,

I think the best option for Genos for "us" and perhaps not that far thought would be support for an external touchscreen just like smart pianist. Run the menu structure on an iPad and even the earpiece problem would be solved by simply connecting one to the iPad while making use of the voice over app on the iPad itself. These kind of iOS apps have proven themselves over the years. Why invest in reinventing a wheel when there are already wheels in almost perfect condition :) Yamaha already has experience with "outsourcing" the display to an external device. On top of that I think it might not only be useful to us but to a great number of other people now having trouble with reading the screens due to interference of external light. You can position the iPad anyway you like without the need for exotic constructions to prevent that external light from blinding the internal display of the Genos.

Guess time will tell if Yamaha is willing and/or capable or perhaps even has already explore these possible options :)

best regards,
Peter
« Last Edit: June 20, 2018, 01:16:52 PM by XeeniX »
 

Offline zionip

Re: Can anyone confirm this (Genos reads out loud)?
« Reply #33 on: June 20, 2018, 05:04:13 PM »
Paul

Just out of interest - where do you rest your music? The music stand looks to be a bit full!

Alan

Hi Alan,

My Genos music stand is currently dedicated to a 24-inch LCD monitor.

I use Songbook+, sometimes just Google Drive, on a 12.9 inch ipad pro mounted on tablet holder with a 20-inch goose neck for my music score when I need it:


Here is a short video demonstrating how to put an iPad Pro 12.9 on to the Bestek 2-in-1 Upgraded Gooseneck Tablet Holder Mount clamped to the back of a Yamaha L-7B keyboard stand supporting a Genos:
https://youtu.be/qTGMm_IUMFk

Thanks,
Paul